If you did NOT like Analytical Grammar

[Quiver0f10]

Could you please share why you did not like it? Thanks!

[ilovemy4kids]

Waiting to hear the responses here also.....

[Michelle My Bell]

This could just be me, but I felt it lacked explanation. I have a natural ability to write/speak well, but I was never really taught grammar. Because of that I do not have the understanding to turn around and teach it. I just didn't get what it was asking a lot of the time.

[Lori D.]

For grades 3-8, we had used Winston (Basic, Word Works, Advanced), plus a variety of supplements (Schoolhouse Rock: Grammar; Mad Libs; Comicstrip Grammar; etc.).

 

After all the rave reviews of AG, I thought it would be a good "grammar wrap-up/finale" for 9th grade. But... it fizzled for us after about 6 weeks -- and that was with older DS who is pretty much willingly use whatever style of curriculum I hand him. No way AG could have *ever* worked with struggling writer younger DS.

 

Since we had never done standard grammar texts/workbooks, the program was just way too workbook-y and dry for us. In fact, all of the those types of programs seem too removed from the real-life uses of grammar for my tastes -- but I am the odd-woman out in WTM terms, as I see grammar as a tool to be learned to then be used in conjunction with good rhetoric, writing, editing, and useful for learning a foreign language. I've never been "into" teaching diagramming (not all of us "see" how all the parts of a sentence are working best through diagramming), and I've never been that big on learning grammar as an end in itself.

 

 

We floundered for a little, and then switched over to Chortling Bard (Bell); much more our style -- informal, reviewing grammar in context of actual writing, includes grammar concept review, mechanics, word usage, vocabulary through a paragraph a day, with each paragraph adding on to a story that builds throughout the year. In this case, the three stories are goofy retellings of 3 Shakespeare plays. It does require a bit of advance prep, and then time to go over the paragraph together, but it is accomplishing my goals for a final grammar wrap-up -- practice editing; review of concepts and word usage; and a bonus of vocabulary. It is closer to the type of usage questions on the PSAT and SAT than what is in AG.

 

 

All that said, AG is a fine and thorough grammar program and works great for most people. I really wanted it to work for us. :) Sue in St. Pete has posted a terrific, detailed review of AG in past threads. I think the only negative things I've really read about it are: unusual order of topics; too small typeface of the worksheets; too expensive.

 

Here is a thread with both positive and negative reviews of AG: Analytical Grammar -- UGG! BEST of luck finding the program that works best for YOU! :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Negin]

Well, maybe I shouldn't be posting here, since we only used JAG. To this day, I have no idea why we stuck with it for as long as we did. My poor dd. We both hated it. It was, without a doubt, most probably the worst homeschooling purchase we have made in a long, long time. Boring, dull, and way too difficult ... the diagramming which would never end, was driving us out. of. our. minds. :banghead:

Mind you, this is coming from me, who is not a fan of grammar overkill, unlike most here on these boards. :tongue_smilie:

A good friend on these boards once told me that JAG didn't work for them either. She herself could never understand diagramming, nor the purpose of it, and she was an English major in college! :D

When it comes to grammar, I have a very Ruth Beechick way of thinking.

This is what Ruth Beechick says. She says a whole lot more and her approach is a wonderful one:

“If you tested any group of children to find who knows a lot of grammar and who knows only a little grammar, you would find that the grammar scores do not correlate with quality of writing. Children who know the most grammar are not necessarily better writers. The parts do no add up to the desired whole.

But moving in the opposite direction does work. That is, students who are good writers can learn grammar better than students who are poor writers. Grammar is not a way to good writing; it is a tool that good writers use to analyze writing, to justify doing something this way instead of that way, and so forth.

You can teach the parts of capitalization, punctuation, spelling, sometimes grammar, and numerous other matters day by day in the dictation and copying lessons. Some of them you will consciously teach. Many others your child will learn without conscious effort. He will learn from the good language models he studies, in the same natural way he learned to speak.

Teach your children first to write well (dictation and copywork from MEANINGFUL selections) and then teach them some grammar (around 6th or 7th grade). They will understand it at that time, and may even enjoy it, not having been burned out previously with years of useless grammar study."

Ruth Beechick, A Strong Start in Language

 

With good literature and as time goes on, a child is going to learn grammar and sentence structure. I think that if children are readers, they usually have less difficulty with spelling and grammar.

 

Most of my schooling was in the U.K., and it's often surprising to me how much the U.S. focuses on grammar. I remember only being taught the essential basics - nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, etc. I just cannot for the life of me understand the reason for diagramming. Sometimes I think that programs such as this one may just be yet another "thing" for us homeschoolers to purchase. That's what happened to me anyway. JAG, for us, was a complete waste of $. I remember asking about JAG on various boards. Someone said how diagramming has helped her through grad school and all throughout life. I cannot for the life of me understand how. I attended a top-notch grad school and not knowing how to diagram never hindered my studies. Before purchasing JAG, I was mistakenly led to believe that it was the best program out there since sliced bread ...

 

Well, I'm off because I know I must have upset some people here :leaving:.

Edited March 12, 2011 by Negin in Grenada

[Michelle My Bell]

Well, maybe I shouldn't be posting here, since we only used JAG. To this day, I have no idea why we stuck with it for as long as we did. My poor dd. We both hated it. It was, without a doubt, most probably the worst homeschooling purchase we have made in a long, long time. Boring, dull, and way too difficult ... the diagramming which would never end, was driving us out. of. our. minds. :banghead:

Mind you, this is coming from me, who is not a fan of grammar overkill, unlike most here on these boards. :tongue_smilie:

A good friend on these boards once told me that JAG didn't work for them either. She herself could never understand diagramming, nor the purpose of it, and she was an English major in college! :D

When it comes to grammar, I have a very Ruth Beechick way of thinking.

This is what Ruth Beechick says. She says a whole lot more and her approach is a wonderful one:

“If you tested any group of children to find who knows a lot of grammar and who knows only a little grammar, you would find that the grammar scores do not correlate with quality of writing. Children who know the most grammar are not necessarily better writers. The parts do no add up to the desired whole.

But moving in the opposite direction does work. That is, students who are good writers can learn grammar better than students who are poor writers. Grammar is not a way to good writing; it is a tool that good writers use to analyze writing, to justify doing something this way instead of that way, and so forth.

You can teach the parts of capitalization, punctuation, spelling, sometimes grammar, and numerous other matters day by day in the dictation and copying lessons. Some of them you will consciously teach. Many others your child will learn without conscious effort. He will learn from the good language models he studies, in the same natural way he learned to speak.

Teach your children first to write well (dictation and copywork from MEANINGFUL selections) and then teach them some grammar (around 6th or 7th grade). They will understand it at that time, and may even enjoy it, not having been burned out previously with years of useless grammar study."

Ruth Beechick, A Strong Start in Language

 

With good literature and as time goes on, a child is going to learn grammar and sentence structure. I think that if children are readers, they usually have less difficulty with spelling and grammar.

 

Most of my schooling was in the U.K., and it's often surprising to me how much the U.S. focuses on grammar. I remember only being taught the essential basics - nouns, verbs, adjectives, adverbs, etc. I just cannot for the life of me understand the reason for diagramming. Sometimes I think that programs such as this one may just be yet another "thing" for us homeschoolers to purchase. That's what happened to me anyway. JAG, for us, was a complete waste of $. I remember asking about JAG on various boards. Someone said how diagramming has helped them throughout life and all through grad school. I cannot for the life of me understand how. I attended a top-notch grad school and not knowing how to diagram never hindered my studies. Before purchasing JAG, I was mistakenly led to believe that it was the best program out there since sliced bread ...

 

Well, I'm off because I know I must have upset some people here :leaving:.

 

 

I agree with everything you said! BRAVO... But here is my question... Since most grammar texts start in elementary, what would one use to teach a 7th grade child the very beginning of grammar?

[PeterPan]

I agree with everything you said! BRAVO... But here is my question... Since most grammar texts start in elementary, what would one use to teach a 7th grade child the very beginning of grammar?

 

Michelle, we use Shurley, so I can only speak to how you could do it with that. In that position I would do FLL1/2 (yes, I'm serious), just the lessons where things get introduced and the memory work, skipping any unnecessary repetition. Shouldn't take you long, maybe a month, depending on how you combine lessons. Then go into Shurley 6. After that do Shurley 7.

 

In reality, you could go straight into Shurley 6 with a student that age and be fine if you took your time. However really, I like the gentle, pleasant foundation of FLL1/2. As you learn things in your grammar time, start carrying them over to your writing, looking for them in models or while you read, etc.

 

We do diagram our Shurley, just one sentence out of the 3-5 in a daily set. It's enough but not too much. :)

[Quiver0f10]

Thank you all for the replies!

[jibaker103]

I agree with everything you said! BRAVO... But here is my question... Since most grammar texts start in elementary, what would one use to teach a 7th grade child the very beginning of grammar?

Easy Grammar Plus

[silliness7]

I like diagramming. I'm weird that way. I would diagram sentences as an end in themselves just because I think it's fun. I know that's weird. :D

 

But in SWB's mps3 on middle grade writing I actually heard the answer to "why diagramming?" She didn't even ask the question. She was explaining how to evaulate and give feedback to your middle grader regarding his writing. She said when you encounter an awkward sentence or one that just isn't working our tendency is to rewrite it for the student and tell them that it "sounds better" this way. Instead, she recommends that you have the student diagram the awkward sentence in order for the student to "see" what is wrong with it and come up with a better sentence. Now she did not flesh this out in great detail and I would love to hear more about it. One thing she said that made sense was that all of those modifiers that are hanging from the bottom ought to be evenly spaced through the sentence. If you have too many modifiers hanging in one spot the sentence will be out of whack. (my paraphrase, of course)

 

...already gave my thought on AG in the other thread. (not thorough)

[stephanier.1765]

I like diagramming. I'm weird that way. I would diagram sentences as an end in themselves just because I think it's fun. I know that's weird. :D

 

 

 

My son likes diagramming too. For him, it's like solving a puzzle and when all the pieces slide into place it gives him a huge sense of satisfaction. He absolutely loves AG. This is one curriculum that falls into our "best buy" category.

[Negin]

Since most grammar texts start in elementary, what would one use to teach a 7th grade child the very beginning of grammar?

I like these a lot. Easy to teach and great for independent work. Made by the creators of Highlights magazine.

 

 

I would get an easier grade level, if you feel that your child is behind on grammar.

 

Rainbow Resource and amazon should have them also.

 

Personally, I wouldn't complicate grammar. Nice and simple. Some good workbooks and you're good to go. :)

The longer I homeschool, the more I love workbooks. No more reinventing the wheel and complicated lesson plans for me. ;) :D.