Auditory Associative Deficit - subtype of CAPD

[razorbackmama]

OK first I find out that not all audiologists believe that CAPD exists. Fine, whatever. NOW I find out that not all CAPD audiologists believe there are subtypes, such as Auditory Associative Deficit, Auditory Output-Organization Deficit, etc.

 

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

 

I have an appt. scheduled for a place semi-locally that tests for CAPD testing, but apparently they don't test for "theoretical" subtypes.:glare: Considering that that's precisely what I suspect my son HAS...WHERE DO I GO?????????????????????????????????

 

How do I even FIND a place to test for this???????

 

Teri Bellis is only 9 hours and 44 minutes from me (according to Google Maps LOL) - do I just need to go to HER???????:banghead:

[razorbackmama]

I found an AWESOME Word document detailing what AAD would "look" like. My son has every single one. It also described what the CAPD test results would come out as. It ALSO detailed HOW TO HELP THEM. (INSERT LOUD CHOIRS OF ANGELS SINGING HERE) However, I don't understand what these things would look like or what I might do differently to help him.

 

Here is what it says (found at http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCsQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lsha.org%2Fimages%2F2006convention%2Fpresentations%2FAPD_Types.doc&rct=j&q=%22auditory%20associative%20deficit%22&ei=MvtSTfTVBcSftwfWl7CyCQ&usg=AFQjCNFS1R8n5T4DfbndE-Z7P3XkVp6bBQ&sig2=tapgfvYPcaZzkRV86Z9mVA&cad=rja

 

Communication and Educational Problems

 

Receptive language deficits in vocabulary, semantics and syntax

Syntactic difficulties especially with linguistically complex messages such as passive vice and irregular verbs

Difficulty understanding sentences in passive voice or compound sentences

Difficulty comprehending information of increasing linguistic complexity

Difficulty understanding multiple meaning words

Difficulty understanding negative “wh†questions

Difficulty with pragmatics and social language

Difficulty acquiring a foreign language

Good reading decoding skills, possibly poor comprehension

Poor understanding of math application problems (word-based) despite good calculation ability

Possible impacts on written language with errors of punctuation, grammar, verb tense, and capitalization

May use run-on sentences

Early academic performance may be grade appropriate with the deficit appearing around 3rd grade and becoming more apparent as linguistic demand increase

 

Management Strategies

 

These children need clarification rather than repetition of information. Information should be rephrased using smaller or different linguistic units.

 

Focus on the “use of rules†of language

A systematic learning approach is recommended that includes the use of multisensory, rules-based approach to language and learning

Focus on linguistic clarity rather than acoustic clarity

Avoid whole language environments and situations requiring self-monitoring of learning behavior

Avoid ambiguity

Multi-sensory augmentation of learning tasks

Increase linguistic familiarity with:

Contextual derivation of word meaning

Pre-teaching of new information

Statement of rules first

Metalinguistic metacognitive strategies training to enhance auditory comprehension and memory such as:

Chunking of meaningful units

Verbal chaining

Mnemonics

Rehearsal/reauditorization

Paraphrasing

Summarizing

Comprehension check by asking for demonstration or paraphrase rather than repetition of information

Impose external organization aids

Use multiple choice or closed set tests

Waive the foreign language requirement

Speech-language therapy focusing on receptive language and to build lingusitc/metalinguistic skills

May benefit from dramatic arts, word games, rebus puzzles

 

Commercial Programs

Orton Reading program

Lindamood-Bell programs

 

Assistive Listening Devises

 

An ALD is of little benefit to the poor associate who heard what was said but did not understand it. Making the target louder does not serve to improve linguistic comprehension.

 

 

How can I focus on the "use of rules" language?:confused: What does that mean? One thing I'm finding is that, as we work on vocabulary, he does very poorly with root-based vocabulary programs. I think this ties into this AAD problem - he doesn't intuit and have the ability to transfer the meaning of a prefix on THIS word to the same prefix on ANOTHER word. Is this the sort of thing it's talking about? I'm confused LOL!

 

I know how to do a systematic, rules-based approach to phonics, and I'm planning to start him on Barton next week.:D How can I apply "rules" to the finer points of LANGUAGE - context, inferencing, etc.?:confused:

 

"Avoid whole language environments and situations requiring self-monitoring of learning behavior" - what is a "whole language environment?" Also, does this mean that I cannot expect him to be an independent learner? If not, what does it mean?

 

What Lindamood-Bell program would help with this? V/V? He *seems* to do OK with visualizing stuff...provided he knows what the words actually MEAN. Is there another Lindamood-Bell program that would help with the "nuances" of language?

[peacefully]

.

[HeidiD]

OK first I find out that not all audiologists believe that CAPD exists. Fine, whatever. NOW I find out that not all CAPD audiologists believe there are subtypes, such as Auditory Associative Deficit, Auditory Output-Organization Deficit, etc.

 

The "subtype" seems to be the label/description of symptoms.

 

Testing will identify the underlying temporal weaknesses that result in the symptoms.

 

For instance, one of my kids did poorly in certain test areas, particularly the following:

 

"Random Gap Detection Test" (deficits in this area interfere with ability to process rapid acoustical changes)

 

"Dichotic Digits" (weakness in binaural integration skills for processing numerical integration)

 

"Competing Sentences Test" (difficulty processing verbal information with other speakers competing in the background)

 

"Pitch Pattern Test" (difficulty processing verbal information)

 

Bottom line - the test results explain why he has many of the weaknesses you posted on your list (and more :tongue_smilie:).

 

I have an appt. scheduled for a place

 

semi-locally that tests for CAPD testing, but apparently they don't test for "theoretical" subtypes.:glare: Considering that that's precisely what I suspect my son HAS...WHERE DO I GO?????????????????????????????????

 

I wouldn't get too caught up in the finer points of labeling this, since you've already observed the particular weaknesses for yourself, and there seems to be a similar array of symptoms that overlap to some degree among various people dx's with CAPD. It would be useful to have an official APD label for college accommodations down the line, perhaps. The symptoms you're observing will dictate the action plan and help narrow down curricula choices. My son's audiologist recommended Wilson and Lindamood Bell, but these were just suggestions - there are other programs and approaches that are equally effective.

 

How do I even FIND a place to test for this???????

 

One of my kids was diagnosed at a major children's hospital, and the other was diagnosed at a rehabilitation hospital, so those are two possible options for you.

[razorbackmama]

I remember you talking about your speech therapy! I would LOVE to know more! My ds was diagnosed with Mixed Receptive Expressive Language Disorder, which I agree he has, but I think it's CAUSED by this AAD. You're right - his therapy has consisted of just practice practice and more practice. His last session was this past Monday.

 

So what sort of things does your SLP actually DO? What do these different methods actually LOOK like? I agree with her - I want to try to FIX what is wrong, not just "manage" or "compensate."

 

I live in the metro Denver area, so we have a gazillion universities here. I will look and see which ones have communication disorder programs. Would they be called that? Or would they be called something else? And how would I know if they used the standard protocol that most SLPs use versus what your SLP uses?

[Leonor]

I will be posting later. Have to run to take ds16 to an event. I agree with a previous poster that the main purpose to know which subtype is for knowing how to proceed.

 

I may not make sense now because I'm in a hurry. I will post later in more detail.

 

Recently, my ds14 was diagnosed as Auditory Associative. The previous poster (Heidi?) stated the types of tests done.

 

It is interesting how they can tell the difference between integration and associative.

I'll post in greater detail later.

[razorbackmama]

OK Heidi, I *think* I'm following you LOL!

 

So are you saying that the place that I'm going to (our children's hospital doesn't even believe it exists, even though they talk about it on their website...don't ask me....:confused: ) probably may not CALL it these things and separate into these different areas? I see on that link that the associative deficit would show up a certain way on the testing. If those tests are done and it does turn out that he has the same sort of results, would *I* then be able to go "ah, he's got AAD" rather than them having to?

 

I guess I just don't want to get there and find out that since they don't "recognize" these subtypes, he "doesn't have" one of the subtypes. KWIM?

[razorbackmama]

I will be posting later. Have to run to take ds16 to an event. I agree with a previous poster that the main purpose to know which subtype is for knowing how to proceed.

 

I may not make sense now because I'm in a hurry. I will post later in more detail.

 

Recently, my ds14 was diagnosed as Auditory Associative. The previous poster (Heidi?) stated the types of tests done.

 

It is interesting how they can tell the difference between integration and associative.

I'll post in greater detail later.

Can't wait!:D

[HeidiD]

the typical speech therapy protocol would probably attempt to teach explicitly all the rules and skills and figures of language. This is precisely what our SLP doesn't do. I personally believe (as a former English teacher) that such a thing has its place, but our SLP believes that this approach may help to manage the language processing disorder, but it doesn't address the underlying deficits.

 

 

That really makes sense, I think. I didn't even attempt to "teach explicitly all the rules and skills and figures of language" until recently. It was too abstract and confusing without a broader, more general foundation. Now that language abilities have improved, it's sinking in very quickly (no more of that "deer in the headlights" look, and a surprising degree of retention!). :)

[HeidiD]

So are you saying that the place that I'm going to (our children's hospital doesn't even believe it exists, even though they talk about it on their website...don't ask me....:confused: ) probably may not CALL it these things and separate into these different areas? I see on that link that the associative deficit would show up a certain way on the testing. If those tests are done and it does turn out that he has the same sort of results, would *I* then be able to go "ah, he's got AAD" rather than them having to?

 

 

 

Exactly! :)

[razorbackmama]

That really makes sense, I think. I didn't even attempt to "teach explicitly all the rules and skills and figures of language" until recently. It was too abstract and confusing without a broader, more general foundation. Now that language abilities have improved, it's sinking in very quickly (no more of that "deer in the headlights" look, and a surprising degree of retention!). :)

So what have you used?:D

 

Truly, what the SLP has been doing and what I am to do is just go through idioms and figures of speech with him. Like, ALL.:001_huh:

 

And the crazy thing is that some stuff he gets, no problem. Other stuff...:001_huh: Like he has trouble using the words "until" and "after" correctly. But the other day he used the word "credo" properly. DO WHAT?????

 

He also has trouble USING vocabulary/figures of speech properly. He may know what it means, but to turn around and actually use it properly...eh. For example, the figure of speech "his eyes popped out of his head." His example sentence was "We popped Nathan's eyes out of his head.":lol:

 

Here are some examples of some sentences he had to write using some vocabulary words he was learning. It was clear he knew the basic gist of the word, but how to actually USE it gave him trouble:

Scientists are very nimble.

President Bush asserted a speech for the September 11th attacks.

Anikin averted the Jedi side.

Susie's appendicitis was plight.

 

I guess I just don't know how to teach those finer nuances so that they start to come more naturally to him. For example, Susie's appendicitis was A plight....

[razorbackmama]

Exactly! :)

 

Oh OK - WHEW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I was trying to figure out just how I was going to get to South Dakota.:lol:

[newbie]

OK first I find out that not all audiologists believe that CAPD exists. Fine, whatever. NOW I find out that not all CAPD audiologists believe there are subtypes, such as Auditory Associative Deficit, Auditory Output-Organization Deficit, etc.

 

GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

 

I have an appt. scheduled for a place semi-locally that tests for CAPD testing, but apparently they don't test for "theoretical" subtypes.:glare: Considering that that's precisely what I suspect my son HAS...WHERE DO I GO?????????????????????????????????

 

How do I even FIND a place to test for this???????

 

Teri Bellis is only 9 hours and 44 minutes from me (according to Google Maps LOL) - do I just need to go to HER???????:banghead:

 

Yes, I would go to Bellis. You need to go to one that believes in these things, otherwise you will get a shoddy dx.

[Leonor]

I started by looking for someone at this site that also did electrophisiology, if needed.

 

http://pages.cthome.net/cbristol/capd-rf1.html

 

For example, this is the original doctor I spoke to. The information from the website was not updated but I googled him and found him as a professor at Nova University Audiology Department. He spoke to me at length and then said that Nova had a good department. A university with a good program can do it. The main thing is the type of testing. I agree with Heidi that a children's hospital can do it as well. I'm posting more information than you need but it is to give you an idea of what I looked for.

 

Richard S. Saul, Ph.D., FAAA

Neuro-Audiological Associates of Boca Raton

P.O. Box 970331

Boca Raton, Florida 33497-0331

Phone: (561) 470-9741

Fax (561) 470-1351

Email: rsaul@prodigy.net or %20saul@fau.edu

 

CCC-A #00503805

Florida State Aud lic# AY300

Ph.D., Speech and Hearing Sciences, State University of New York at Buffalo (1983)

M.A., Audiology, University of Florida (1976)

B.A., Psychology/Biology, Florida Atlantic University (1973)

 

Clinical Practice: Neuro-Audiological Associates of Boca Raton Faculty in Audiology: Florida Atlantic University (Communication Disorders Program, Department of Health Sciences)

 

Specialty areas: Diagnostic Audiology, Central Audiological Evaluation and Management, Vestibular Function, Electrophysiology

 

The doctor that evaluated my son, the initials behind her name are Au.D., CCC-A. She is also very trained in sensory integration.

 

I will come back post a little more detail about the tests and findings.

[peacefully]

.

[peacefully]

.

[HeidiD]

So what have you used?:D

 

Check out Linguisystems - lots of helpful practice books for language problems.

 

And "Words" - http://www.proedinc.com/customer/productLists.aspx?Author=Marcia+K.+Henry

 

ElizabethB recommended this, we recently started using it, and I think it's really very good. :) Well structured and easy to implement. And it comes with a disk, so you can print out the worksheets and use it with multiple kids.

 

I'm also going to have my kids start using an e-reader with the voice enabled to see if that helps further enhance vocabulary, usage and speech fluency (and modeling of proper cadence). One of their problems is that they speak too rapidly - another area we're working on.

 

Truly, what the SLP has been doing and what I am to do is just go through idioms and figures of speech with him. Like, ALL.:001_huh:

 

Sounds very useful.

 

And the crazy thing is that some stuff he gets, no problem. Other stuff...:001_huh: Like he has trouble using the words "until" and "after" correctly. But the other day he used the word "credo" properly. DO WHAT?????

 

"Until" and "after" are sometimes very abstract terms to people with language difficulties. One of the programs we used recommended making clay models to help fix the meaning permanently as a mental image in order to help the person use it correctly more consistently. Drawing a picture would probably accomplish the same thing. Why is he remembering credo? It might be that whatever program you're using for Latin is a good match with his learning style so it's sticking, or it might be just random, or maybe he's already picturing something in his mind (like a prayer book).

 

He also has trouble USING vocabulary/figures of speech properly. He may know what it means, but to turn around and actually use it properly...eh. For example, the figure of speech "his eyes popped out of his head." His example sentence was "We popped Nathan's eyes out of his head.":lol:

 

Here are some examples of some sentences he had to write using some vocabulary words he was learning. It was clear he knew the basic gist of the word, but how to actually USE it gave him trouble:

Scientists are very nimble.

President Bush asserted a speech for the September 11th attacks.

Anikin averted the Jedi side.

Susie's appendicitis was plight.

 

I guess I just don't know how to teach those finer nuances so that they start to come more naturally to him. For example, Susie's appendicitis was A plight....

 

Take that list of sentences and continue to work on those particular words. Have him look up the word nimble, asserted, averted, plight, set up a notebook page for each with the meaning at the top and then have him come up with another bunch of sentences using it properly and write them on the page. Then review the notebook at least once a week and have him come up with a new sentence (orally) until it sticks. :)

[Leonor]

At the risk of sounding terribly ignorant, what exactly is the treatment or therapy for CAPD?

 

I found this article which seems to cover many of the programs mentioned on this board a great deal. Is this the approach that the moms of CAPD kids are taking? Is anyone finding these types of therapies to improve the processing of their CAPD children?

 

http://www.concordspedpac.org/CAPD.html[/quote

 

This is where the type of capd matters. How you remediate can be different. There are some basic therapies that might be used across the board (like the listening therapies) but others vary.

For example, if it is Auditory Integration, you are told to use multisensory techniques when teaching but not all at the same time. Do not say and show at same time. Say it, then demonstrate. If if is Auditory Associative, you are recommended to use multisensory but you can be speaking while demonstrating.

 

"When we do all that, there are a bunch of cloze phrases or sentences (like: We wanted to chase his _______). I say the sentence, filling in the blank with one of the words or phrases from the picture sheet. "

This would be tested for in the evaluation.

Auditory closure and this was something my son did well in suggesting adequate auditory closure/decoding skills.

 

For now, he is doing the Listening Program. The Listening Program can be done at home and can be done by anyone with or without auditory issues.

[HeidiD]

At the risk of sounding terribly ignorant, what exactly is the treatment or therapy for CAPD?

 

I found this article which seems to cover many of the programs mentioned on this board a great deal. Is this the approach that the moms of CAPD kids are taking? Is anyone finding these types of therapies to improve the processing of their CAPD children?

 

http://www.concordspedpac.org/CAPD.html

 

 

The approach varies according to the symptoms (but nothing cures it ). We've used Balametrics, Earobics LiPS and OG reading programs because those in particular attacked my younger son's areas of weakness. One of my older children was only diagnosed recently, and he apparently remediated himself to a huge degree. :thumbup1: But the testing also revealed the underlying processing weaknesses that no amount of remediation can completely eradicate.

[Leonor]

I will have to come back later and post.

 

I just spent almost an hour typing up all the tests, descriptions, and findings, and when I went to post it had logged me out and I lost it.:ohmy::crying::mad::banghead:

[razorbackmama]

Thanks, Heidi. I have to laugh. We aren't using Latin (nor do I ever plan to). He remembers "credo" because he saw it on a Penguins of Madagascar episode.:lol: Actually I have found that he does NOT do well at all with root-based vocabulary programs, where he has to actually take pieces of words, combine them with other pieces of words, to make NEW words. Ugh. That all means absolutely NOTHING to him.

 

So are you saying that remediation isn't really possible - there's no way to retrain his brain (for example, the digit span stuff that yllek is talking about is designed to retrain her son's brain, with whatever type of CAPD he has)? Do you think there is a way to get him up where he needs to be? What sort of strategies are you teaching your son so that when he's older he won't need you to spoon feed him all these things?

[razorbackmama]

yllek - the SLP he has been seeing is a CCC-SLP, but she did NOTHING like what you're talking about.:confused:

[razorbackmama]

I just looked - she has been using Linguisystems and Academic Communication Associates products.

 

Pretty much it's just lots and lots and lots of practice.

[Leonor]

Tests performed:

Audiogram

Acoustic Reflexes- performance will suggest adequate or inadequate transmission of auditory signals across the level of the low brainstem.

Word recognition in quiet environment suggesting adequate auditory decoding/closure for conversational speech in a quiet environment.

Frequency Pattern Test- auditory pattern recognition assesses the ability to recognize the prosodic aspects of speech, including intonation. The ability to place meaning to words by stress pattern. Pitch pattern recognition is necessary for detecting voice intonation cue’s that convey a speaker’s intent. My son was able to hum each pattern with 100% accuracy binaurally, indicating typical performance in auditory pattern recognition. He was able to provide a language label for each pattern (e. high-low-low) indicating typical performance in the interhemispheric transfer(auditory integration). This does not surprise me because he can imitate any voice he hears—which she says is also a right brain function. HOWEVER, he sometimes does not understand jokes/sarcasm. This is why these tests have to be interpreted individually and collectively. He does not have prosodic deficit therefore his symptoms would indicate auditory associative deficit—more of an inability to attach meaning to speech.

Dichotic Digits Test- binaural integration or divided auditory attention. Response patterns yield information concerning neuromaturation of the auditory nervous system and interhemispheric transfer of auditory information. Reduced performance in both ears suggested auditory associative deficit.

Auditory Fusion Test-Revised- gap detection. Response patterns yield information regarding the ability to detect fine timing differences that are important for processing rapid transitions in speech. Typical skills indicates intact gross cerebellar function.

Gaps In Noise Test- gap detection was also assessed with this. Response patterns yield information the ability to recognize brief interruptions (silence gap ). This has implications when listening to the quick changes in the typical speech pattern(e.g. hearing the difference between dime and time). This indicated typical skills for each ear.

NU-6 Compressed Word Test- measured auditory closure. Response patterns yield information concerning the ability to fill in missing information in a degraded acoustic signal. This skill is used daily, in the classroom, the fill in auditory information lost to background noise. These findings suggested adequate auditory closure/decoding skills.

Yet, when we are in a classroom like at coop, my ds does not seem to be able to follow all instructions. Again, because of the individual and collective findings on all these tests, it is more indicative of associative deficit—an inability to attach meaning to speech and not understand the directions rather than a need for them to be repeated.

Staggered Spondaic Word Test- selective auditory attention. Response patterns yield information concerning auditory memory, auditory sequencing, and sound symbol association skills. Two compound words with equal stress are presented one to each ear, aligned such that the second part of the first compound word and the first part of the second compound word overlap between ears (e.g. right ear: up stairs; left ear: down town. The words stairs and down are overlapping). Elevated number of errors for right and left competing conditions suggested auditory associative deficit.

Auditory Integration Skills were also measured with Dichotic Words Listening Test. Measures the ability to process competing auditory signals at the same time. Reduced performance for both ears consistent with auditory associative deficit.

Competing Sentences Test-binaural separation or focused auditory attention. Response patterns yield information concerning ability to pick the important speech elements out of a background of meaningful competition. Findings indicated reduced performance.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Leonor

[HeidiD]

Thanks, Heidi. I have to laugh. We aren't using Latin (nor do I ever plan to). He remembers "credo" because he saw it on a Penguins of Madagascar episode.:lol:

 

That's a useful data point, actually. :) If he retains things he sees on tv, you can use that for homeschooling.

 

Actually I have found that he does NOT do well at all with root-based vocabulary programs, where he has to actually take pieces of words, combine them with other pieces of words, to make NEW words. Ugh. That all means absolutely NOTHING to him.

 

Same here, which is why I'm having him work through programs that emphasize that approach - he needs it. :)

 

So are you saying that remediation isn't really possible - there's no way to retrain his brain (for example, the digit span stuff that yllek is talking about is designed to retrain her son's brain, with whatever type of CAPD he has)?

 

I don't think anyone knows for sure at this point to what extent the brain can be retrained, but I've seen amazing improvements after using LiPS and OG. I have no doubt that that processing can be strengthened with the right techniques, at least to some degree, because I've seen it happen with my own eyes. The audiologist said that the underlying weaknesses that were still detectable with my older son have far less impact than they would have had several years ago because he's developed strategies to compensate very well. So maybe people level out at a certain point, regardless, and then they need to learn ways to compensate for the remaining weaknesses.

 

This is interesting, about neuroplasticity:

 

http://www.dana.org/news/brainwork/detail.aspx?id=13662

 

 

Do you think there is a way to get him up where he needs to be?

 

I would definitely try.

 

What sort of strategies are you teaching your son so that when he's older he won't need you to spoon feed him all these things?

 

Well, since my older son remediated himself and both kids have the same types of deficits, I'm using him as a model for my younger son. Older son did tons of reading. It seems that at a minimum, a large vocabulary provides scaffolding for the meta-linguistic strategies that minimize impact from CAPD. So we work on idioms, vocabulary, reading, and speaking. We use lots of visual input (history and science videos, computer software), plus a meta-linguistic strategy program. Music was suggested by the audiologist, and he also does karate. All these things are having a cumulative effect over time, so it's reasonable to be optimistic.:)

[peacefully]

.

[peacefully]

.

[ElizabethB]

"Until" and "after" are sometimes very abstract terms to people with language difficulties.

 

:iagree:

 

My son has trouble with them, but is starting to understand them better. Credo is actually much less abstract than most prepositions.

 

My son was trying to remember the Bible verse "And let us keep running the race marked out for us." He spent days working on getting the preposition right. He kept wanting to say "marked out on us" or "marked out with us," etc. My husband explained the difference to him graphically, marking out a path with blankets and explaining that "marked out on us" would be drawing something on him, but it still took a while for him to remember the correct preposition.

 

So, prepositions are more abstract than you think and are only really learned by comparing them and seeing patterns, if you don’t hear well and don’t read a lot, you don’t build up enough of the pattern to figure it out. My 5 year old will eventually figure it out, (I hope!) but if not, I will teach it explicitly.

 

Also, my daughter used to make common mistakes like saying "drawed" instead of drew, but she figured out the correct ones much younger than my son.

 

When she took the ITBS last year, she said of the wrong ones that her brother said, “____ says that one! ____ says that one, too!” Those he didn’t say, she just marked as wrong with no comment. (And let me tell you, I didn’t know this pattern—but I did recognize most of what she said as ones he did say sometimes.) So, my daughter has 3 patterns for verb agreement and other grammar things: wrong things that her brother doesn’t say, wrong things that her brother says, and correct grammar.

 

It seems that at a minimum, a large vocabulary provides scaffolding for the meta-linguistic strategies that minimize impact from CAPD. So we work on idioms, vocabulary, reading, and speaking. We use lots of visual input (history and science videos, computer software), plus a meta-linguistic strategy program. Music was suggested by the audiologist, and he also does karate. All these things are having a cumulative effect over time, so it's reasonable to be optimistic.:)

 

:iagree:

 

I was re-looking at some things on the Matthew effect last night, it is an interesting topic. I'll make a post on the general board about it and link to it in this post later, I think people here will be interested and also feel less guilty about taking a day to let their kids read!! Basically, if you read 65 minutes a day (the 98th percentile), you are exposed to over 4 million words per year. For those at the 10th percentile, they read .1 minutes per day and are exposed to 8,000 words per year, those at the 30th percentile read 1.3 minutes per day, and are exposed to 106,000 words per year. Now, some of these words are the same words, but still...

Edited February 10, 2011 by ElizabethB

[razorbackmama]

That's a useful data point, actually. :) If he retains things he sees on tv, you can use that for homeschooling.

 

Oh yes, and I try to find whatever I can video-wise to supplement our stuff. I wish I could say that video-based *classes* were as effective, but alas, they aren't. And really, he still misses quite a bit when he's watching TV. He *thinks* he's following the point, but he isn't always. Hearing him explain what he's seen on the news can be very, um, INTERESTING.:lol:

 

 

Same here, which is why I'm having him work through programs that emphasize that approach - he needs it. :)

 

Oh interesting - so you purposefully choose root-based vocabulary programs? Is he actually learning anything? We've been doing them for quite some time, and I don't think it has actually helped a bit. He does eventually semi-learn the particular vocabulary words that were in those sections, but I don't think it's because he finally figured out the relationship between the affixes and the root words - he just finally started to remember the words.

 

As I typed that out, I realized that at the root of almost all of his problems is that he has an extremely difficult time comprehending the relationship between words. Whether it's parts of a word, or prepositions, or "wh/h" question words (how and why are his big problems), or how to use vocabulary words that he knows the meaning of in a sentence - that all has to do with how words are used WITH OTHER WORDS. HMMMMMMMMMM.

 

I don't think anyone knows for sure at this point to what extent the brain can be retrained, but I've seen amazing improvements after using LiPS and OG.

 

What sort of improvements did you see? I'm about to start Barton with him simply because his phonics foundation isn't very good. I'm using it with 2 of my other kids, so I figured, why not LOL. A small part of his problem with reading is poor phonics, but it definitely isn't his biggest problem.

 

I have no doubt that that processing can be strengthened with the right techniques, at least to some degree, because I've seen it happen with my own eyes.

 

So did your audiologist give you suggestions on strengthening those weaknesses? Or did you have to find out the weaknesses and then do research on your own as to how to strengthen them?

 

Well, since my older son remediated himself and both kids have the same types of deficits, I'm using him as a model for my younger son. Older son did tons of reading. It seems that at a minimum, a large vocabulary provides scaffolding for the meta-linguistic strategies that minimize impact from CAPD. So we work on idioms, vocabulary, reading, and speaking. We use lots of visual input (history and science videos, computer software), plus a meta-linguistic strategy program. Music was suggested by the audiologist, and he also does karate. All these things are having a cumulative effect over time, so it's reasonable to be optimistic.:)

 

Did your older son not have trouble reading and comprehending what he is reading? My son can read, but he doesn't read much at all (school only) primarily because he doesn't understand what he is reading. I don't blame him - why read if it doesn't make any sense?:tongue_smilie:

 

I've been telling our SLP about the ongoing conversations that I've been having on this board, and she told me that the "practice-type" of speech therapy that you're describing is how she was trained to do speech too. She's borrowing from her experience with neuro patients (stroke victims, for example) to develop some of the things she is currently doing with language processing kids (and ASD children too). She said that this is her own program, but that many universities are doing cutting-edge treatments (so that's why you can start screening there).

Ah - makes TOTAL sense.

 

I'm sure that the Linguisystems and ACA products are great programs. They are, after all, the "standard of care," from what I understand. Our SLP's main criticism is that it takes years to remediate students through this approach. She said that it is her goal not to have career speech students. What she has seen in her program is that students graduate out of speech therapy and go on to manage their academic work without the need for further interventions.

 

YES. THIS IS WHAT I AM LOOKING FOR. My son is in 8th grade and nowhere near ready for high school. Cognitively, I do think he could handle it just fine, if his language processing issues weren't in the way.:glare:

 

I mentioned in another thread that our SLP things that visualization is a problem for language processing kids, because they somehow don't connect their "visual channel" (her words) with their language tasks. I know V/V addresses this, and many folks here see a lot of benefit from it. But I've been seeing lots of indicators that ds's visual memory and visualization is improving. When I mentioned this to our SLP, she said that the progression is that usually her clients first begin to use their immediate environment for visual cues to support their processing (initially they are not able to do this necessarily), and then they begin to internalize and integrate their visual channel with their language processing. She said that's when she sees big leaps in comprehension activities for her clients.

 

Can you explain this a bit more? I do have to admit that I may not be following you because my brain is fried LOL. Dh out of town - 7 hours of sleep over the last 2 days - 7 kids interrupting me all the time...I'm halfway looney LOL.

 

I was re-looking at some things on the Matthew effect last night, it is an interesting topic. I'll make a post on the general board about it and link to it in this post later, I think people here will be interested and also feel less guilty about taking a day to let their kids read!! Basically, if you read 65 minutes a day (the 98th percentile), you are exposed to over 4 million words per year. For those at the 10th percentile, they read .1 minutes per day and are exposed to 8,000 words per year, those at the 30th percentile read 1.3 minutes per day, and are exposed to 106,000 words per year. Now, some of these words are the same words, but still...

I'll have to check out that link. But gosh, I have to laugh - the last thing I feel is guilt over "letting" my kids read for a day. I have to FORCE my kids to read for 30 minutes!:lol:

[ElizabethB]

OK, here is the post about the matthew effect and vocabulary and learning:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2418880#post2418880

[razorbackmama]

OK, here is the post about the matthew effect and vocabulary and learning:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2418880#post2418880

Thanks, Elizabeth! That is really very interesting and make a LOT of sense. I sure do wish something like that would help my son! However, I know it wouldn't without MAJOR MAJOR hand-holding.:glare: He doesn't understand the relationship between the words in sentences (and especially not when there are several sentences are involved), so he cannot pick up vocabulary words very well at all from context. He has to have explicit instruction in what vocabulary words mean, or else the words he reads on a page just flit through his brain and go out the other side, without him actually realizing what the words MEAN. So doing something like that would certainly expose him to a lot of words...he just wouldn't be able to figure out what those words mean.:tongue_smilie:

[ElizabethB]

Thanks, Elizabeth! That is really very interesting and make a LOT of sense. I sure do wish something like that would help my son! However, I know it wouldn't without MAJOR MAJOR hand-holding.:glare: He doesn't understand the relationship between the words in sentences (and especially not when there are several sentences are involved), so he cannot pick up vocabulary words very well at all from context. He has to have explicit instruction in what vocabulary words mean, or else the words he reads on a page just flit through his brain and go out the other side, without him actually realizing what the words MEAN. So doing something like that would certainly expose him to a lot of words...he just wouldn't be able to figure out what those words mean.:tongue_smilie:

 

I have ideas! :001_smile:

 

The most promising is Parker's readers. They are linked at the end of my Webster's Way page.

 

They are a series of readers that gradually increases in difficulty and has definitions for all of the hard words. I would start him back at the 2nd reader and work through, the 2nd reader is today's 4th or 5th grade level and some of the words in the 2nd reader are middle school/high school vocabulary today.

[razorbackmama]

I have ideas! :001_smile:

 

The most promising is Parker's readers. They are linked at the end of my Webster's Way page.

 

They are a series of readers that gradually increases in difficulty and has definitions for all of the hard words. I would start him back at the 2nd reader and work through, the 2nd reader is today's 4th or 5th grade level and some of the words in the 2nd reader are middle school/high school vocabulary today.

 

Thanks, Liz. I'd love to find out ways to teach him how to do this naturally, but these might help in the meantime.:)

[VinNY]

This has been a great thread..my head has been spinning. I have had to resign myself to the fact that I can not get all the therapies I would like for my children, sometimes because of money but most of the time because there is no provider in the area. I am jealous of Ylek's:D At this point, once I finish up VT I am relying on the public school for services. I will be seeing a neuropsych next week. This figgerin out my dtr stuff is exhausting. :tongue_smilie: Thank you to all who share so freely.

 

Razorback..have you tried the Wordly Wise series? These have worked well for my kids to build vocabulary and usage. Also my older kids have told me that they learned alot by reading their younger siblings Natl Geographic Kids and Highlights. I guess the way the material is presented made some topic, even grammar or vocabulary sink in that just went over their heads during our formal lessons, plus it is written at a younger age level so the explanation is more explicit. Also I have started to include graphic novels, comics etc into my homeschool for my CAPD son.

[ElizabethB]

Thanks, Liz. I'd love to find out ways to teach him how to do this naturally, but these might help in the meantime.:)

 

You're welcome.

 

IN the meantime, after he reads a few on his own and sees how it works, you could also have him read an occasional selection twice, the first time working to figure out the vocab words on his own from context and the second time reading the vocab words first and then seeing how well his ideas for them matched, then discussing how to better make educated vocab guesses from context.

 

Also, if you want the real books, they are fairly reasonable from alibris:

 

http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qyear=1800&qauth=Parker&qtit=Reader&qyearhi=1900

[razorbackmama]

Razorback..have you tried the Wordly Wise series? These have worked well for my kids to build vocabulary and usage.

 

He definitely does the best with those.:001_smile: It's funny though - the way they are set up is a PERFECT example of where his problem areas are. The first exercise, where it's pure definition, he rarely misses any. The next couple of exercises can be tricky, depending on the word. The 4th one, if it's heavy on affixes...YIKES. But the 5th one, with the comprehension and usage section...NIGHTMARE CITY. He always gets the vast majority of them wrong, and at THIS point I'm not totally REQUIRING that he use the vocabulary word in the answer.:001_huh:

 

Also my older kids have told me that they learned alot by reading their younger siblings Natl Geographic Kids and Highlights. I guess the way the material is presented made some topic, even grammar or vocabulary sink in that just went over their heads during our formal lessons, plus it is written at a younger age level so the explanation is more explicit.

Great idea - thanks!

Also I have started to include graphic novels, comics etc into my homeschool for my CAPD son.

I hear ya!

[ElizabethB]

Another thing to help build up vocabulary, that you can also do with your other children, is Webster's 1908 Speller. The reading selections in the 1908 speller are heavy on definitions, here are a few samples:

 

From no. 43

 

A skiff is a small rowboat. A cliff is a high steep rock. Leave off your bad tricks. A tarn is a small lake among the mountains.

 

From no. 54

 

Botany is the science of plants. An elegy is a funeral song. A prodigy is something very wonderful. An effigy is an image or likeness of a person.

 

 

You can start them all off with the syllabary, then work through the speller at their own rates. You could work with them in groups or a few at a time, going back and forth between children with the others watching while it was not their turn. Because it is all based on the syllables, they will get good review or preview when it is not their turn.

 

Vocabulary building is a fuzzy, non-linear, approximate process for most people. When we were in Europe, I finally understood why my husband understood less German than me although he took 4 years of the language and I took 2. He is brilliant in math and very logical and analytical. This works against him in language.

 

Once, in Germany, I was looking at a billboard, trying to figure out what it said. I told my husband, "Hmm, if I knew what ______ meant, I could figure out what the sign says." My husband knew that word, he in fact knew more words on the sign than me, but could not figure out the meaning!! He required much more of a sentence to hazard a guess.

 

When we were in France, we were trying to get to a certain landmark in a town. We saw a sign, I don't remember exactly what, and I said, "I think it says ______ based on this root and its similar meaning in Spanish." He looked at me like I was crazy and said, "But you might be wrong!" I replied, "Yes, I might, but there is a fair chance I'm right. Besides, we don't know where we are going anyway so we might as well go that way." (I was right, BTW!!)

 

In both English and foreign languages, I'll hazard a provisional guess based on context and root. This guess gets refined as I hear/read the word in new contexts. Only once did I have to look up a word after doing this, my guess for "augen-blick" was so far off that I kept getting jarring meanings when I tried to refine my guess. After hearing it for a few months with no resolution, I finally looked it up. (The last 4 or 5 times I heard it, I kept thinking...hmm, that word definitely doesn't mean what I think it means, I wonder what it means. Maybe I should look it up.)

 

I would try Parker's Reader's and the 1908 Speller for now, and eventually try to build up to Marcia Henry's Words and the cheap and interesting looking Instant Vocabulary. (For $7, it's worth a shot, especially since it's independent.)

 

I would also have all your children than need more reading and spelling help watch my online phonics lessons. They are a good intro to syllables and are a way they can get in extra phonics and spelling work while you do something else.

[HeidiD]

 

Oh interesting - so you purposefully choose root-based vocabulary programs? Is he actually learning anything? We've been doing them for quite some time, and I don't think it has actually helped a bit. He does eventually semi-learn the particular vocabulary words that were in those sections, but I don't think it's because he finally figured out the relationship between the affixes and the root words - he just finally started to remember the words.

 

Yes, but only recently, because he's now at the point where it's sinking in. He had such awful problems at the beginning (it took over a year for him to make the sound/letter connection for his 3-letter nickname!!!:tongue_smilie:). We tried multiple phonics programs, to no avail. It was LiPS that finally did the trick. Then we went on to OG, but only for reading. I deliberately omitted the spelling portion because #1 priority was to get him reading as quickly as possible, and he needs to see the big picture in order to progress. Therefore, it made more sense to go back to spelling another time, rather than try to learn it in bits and pieces. Alongside the OG program, he learned sight words, also as a means of jump starting his reading. And then we just read and read and read... I spent a couple of hours each day for a year listening to him read at me.:tongue_smilie: Academic Therapy Publications has a nice selection of books that appeal to boys - we've read quite a few (dozens!).

 

http://www.highnoonbooks.com/index-hnb.tpl

 

It was a lot of time spent reading, but the results were encouraging. Then we worked through "Rewards Intermediate" for reading of multisyllabic words. At this point, he's reading very competently at grade level (6th), and probably a little above. It was hard to find the time (I have 7 kids, also, and one was a screaming, nursing infant at that point, but in retrospect, it really paid off). :)

 

 

As I typed that out, I realized that at the root of almost all of his problems is that he has an extremely difficult time comprehending the relationship between words. Whether it's parts of a word, or prepositions, or "wh/h" question words (how and why are his big problems), or how to use vocabulary words that he knows the meaning of in a sentence - that all has to do with how words are used WITH OTHER WORDS. HMMMMMMMMMM.

 

 

Have you read "The Gift of Dyslexia"? Some of Davis' techniques are helpful for learning abstract words. He says he was "cured" of autism, and whether or not that's true is debatable, but in any event, he seems to be a very visual thinker. His approach can be helpful for people who are highly visual (and as such, may have some difficulty with abstractions).

 

For words in context, a couple of my kids are using a program (religion-based) which consists of books to read, and a vocabulary workbook with a lesson keyed to each chapter. In order to find the correct definition, it's necessary to go back to the original sentence in the book and read the word in context. I think it would be fairly easy to pick any book that you want your child to read, pick out vocabulary from each chapter, highlight it, and type up a little workbook on the computer. I'm thinking of doing this with some other books, once we run out of pages in this program.

 

 

So did your audiologist give you suggestions on strengthening those weaknesses? Or did you have to find out the weaknesses and then do research on your own as to how to strengthen them?

 

Both. By the time we finally had testing done, many of the recommendations were things we had done or were doing.:)

 

Did your older son not have trouble reading and comprehending what he is reading?

 

No. His achievement test maxed out at 99 percentile. I think it's because once he started reading, that's all he did (for several years, his entire curriculum consisted only of reading and a math text.:lol:)

 

My son can read, but he doesn't read much at all (school only) primarily because he doesn't understand what he is reading. I don't blame him - why read if it doesn't make any sense?:tongue_smilie:

 

How about an e-reader? I just got a Kindle in the mail and loaded so many free books that it's already paid for itself. :tongue_smilie: I want my younger son to continue to progress with his reading, and this little machine is a wonderfully cheap form of "assistive technology" (around the same price as the graphing calculators my older kids needed for the SATs !!!!). The electronic voice is a bit tinny and the pronounciation is a bit weird in places, but overall, it's good enough for the purpose. Now he can read on his own without getting stuck on a word that he doesn't recognize in print.

[HeidiD]

Ds is a strong reader, and his particular strengths on the evals that we've done were around vocabulary and phonemic awareness. Ds is also doing aikido.

 

Excellent! :)

[HeidiD]

 

I think people here will be interested and also feel less guilty about taking a day to let their kids read!!

 

:iagree:

 

No need to feel guilty at all. Some people can actually learn MORE this way. :)

[razorbackmama]

Yes, but only recently, because he's now at the point where it's sinking in. He had such awful problems at the beginning (it took over a year for him to make the sound/letter connection for his 3-letter nickname!!!:tongue_smilie:). We tried multiple phonics programs, to no avail. It was LiPS that finally did the trick. Then we went on to OG, but only for reading. I deliberately omitted the spelling portion because #1 priority was to get him reading as quickly as possible, and he needs to see the big picture in order to progress. Therefore, it made more sense to go back to spelling another time, rather than try to learn it in bits and pieces. Alongside the OG program, he learned sight words, also as a means of jump starting his reading. And then we just read and read and read... I spent a couple of hours each day for a year listening to him read at me.:tongue_smilie: Academic Therapy Publications has a nice selection of books that appeal to boys - we've read quite a few (dozens!).

 

http://www.highnoonbooks.com/index-hnb.tpl

 

It was a lot of time spent reading, but the results were encouraging. Then we worked through "Rewards Intermediate" for reading of multisyllabic words. At this point, he's reading very competently at grade level (6th), and probably a little above. It was hard to find the time (I have 7 kids, also, and one was a screaming, nursing infant at that point, but in retrospect, it really paid off). :)

 

Hmmmmm this really doesn't sound like him at all. I am about to go through Barton Reading and Spelling with him, but only because the phonics program he learned to read with leaves much to be desired.:glare: So I know he has some phonics gaps, but actual decoding ability is most definitely NOT the cause of his reading problems.

 

 

Have you read "The Gift of Dyslexia"? Some of Davis' techniques are helpful for learning abstract words. He says he was "cured" of autism, and whether or not that's true is debatable, but in any event, he seems to be a very visual thinker. His approach can be helpful for people who are highly visual (and as such, may have some difficulty with abstractions).

 

I'll check it out! Thanks!

 

For words in context, a couple of my kids are using a program (religion-based) which consists of books to read, and a vocabulary workbook with a lesson keyed to each chapter. In order to find the correct definition, it's necessary to go back to the original sentence in the book and read the word in context. I think it would be fairly easy to pick any book that you want your child to read, pick out vocabulary from each chapter, highlight it, and type up a little workbook on the computer. I'm thinking of doing this with some other books, once we run out of pages in this program.

 

What program is it?

 

No. His achievement test maxed out at 99 percentile. I think it's because once he started reading, that's all he did (for several years, his entire curriculum consisted only of reading and a math text.:lol:)

 

Gosh, I cannot even IMAGINE!!!!!!! I thought that auditory associative deficit tended to have comprehension problems? That is most definitely my son's BIGGEST problem. He can't comprehend what he hears or reads very well.

 

Today he was watching the news and kept asking me questions about some stories he was seeing about the stuff going on in Egypt. I wasn't really paying attention, so unfortunately I wasn't able to answer his questions very well. But he had no idea if they were talking about OUR military or Egypt's military...OUR army or Egypt's army, as he listened. *IF* he is able to put the words together in a sentence to mean something, he really struggles with putting sentences together to mean something.

 

Usually he doesn't even ask - he just goes through life in this perpetually confused state, so I praised him big time for ASKING.:D

 

How about an e-reader? I just got a Kindle in the mail and loaded so many free books that it's already paid for itself. :tongue_smilie: I want my younger son to continue to progress with his reading, and this little machine is a wonderfully cheap form of "assistive technology" (around the same price as the graphing calculators my older kids needed for the SATs !!!!). The electronic voice is a bit tinny and the pronounciation is a bit weird in places, but overall, it's good enough for the purpose. Now he can read on his own without getting stuck on a word that he doesn't recognize in print.

 

Nope. He requires a LOT of inflection, and in order to read a book he really needs to listen AND read it at the same time, to just halfway get the gist of it. I spend a lot of time making audio recordings of his school materials so he can listen while he reads.:glare: And I have to make sure to put in a lot of inflection and not read to quickly.

[ElizabethB]

DragonFaerie's links for reading comprehension resources might be good to work through, too.

[razorbackmama]

Possibly. He would most likely not be able to be independent with them at all though, since he would not be able to understand their explanations of how to find the answers to the questions.

 

I'm probably going to use BJU's reading with him, to work on comprehension. They have a lot of higher-order thinking questions, and those are what he struggles with the most. Inferencing, etc.

[HeidiD]

What program is it?

 

It's Catholic - "Vocabulary Quiz Workbook Set"

 

Gosh, I cannot even IMAGINE!!!!!!! I thought that auditory associative deficit tended to have comprehension problems?

 

Maybe it's because they often fall behind in reading and vocabulary? We've put the lion's share of time into those areas, rather than trying to follow a typical curriculum.

 

Auditory comprehension difficulties aren't as easy to overcome because you can't control the sounds around you, but that's where the meta-cognitive strategies can help fill the void.

 

Usually he doesn't even ask - he just goes through life in this perpetually confused state, so I praised him big time for ASKING.:D

 

I know what you mean. It's alarming at times (like if they don't register that a car is coming). My younger kid seems to be trying to read lips (maybe unintended fallout from the LiPS program :lol:). When he's trying to follow what people are saying around him, he ends up staring at them too much. They don't know why, so it makes them uncomfortable. Not sure how to eradicate that habit.:tongue_smilie:

[razorbackmama]

It's Catholic - "Vocabulary Quiz Workbook Set"

Thanks!

 

Maybe it's because they often fall behind in reading and vocabulary? We've put the lion's share of time into those areas, rather than trying to follow a typical curriculum.

 

I don't know if that's the case with my ds - he was reading pretty well and doing fine till roughly 4th grade. It was even noticeable to him by 6th. And he even struggles with words he knows. It's very weird.

 

Auditory comprehension difficulties aren't as easy to overcome because you can't control the sounds around you, but that's where the meta-cognitive strategies can help fill the void.

 

Can you recommend any resources for teaching those?

 

I know what you mean. It's alarming at times (like if they don't register that a car is coming). My younger kid seems to be trying to read lips (maybe unintended fallout from the LiPS program :lol:). When he's trying to follow what people are saying around him, he ends up staring at them too much. They don't know why, so it makes them uncomfortable. Not sure how to eradicate that habit.:tongue_smilie:

 

See he doesn't struggle with any of that at all. LOL I probably struggle with it more than he does (I often have to see people's lips in order to truly hear them). He can repeat exactly what someone says. It just doesn't actually MEAN anything to him.:tongue_smilie:

[HeidiD]

 

I don't know if that's the case with my ds - he was reading pretty well and doing fine till roughly 4th grade. It was even noticeable to him by 6th. And he even struggles with words he knows. It's very weird.

 

I remember reading that sometimes dyslexics max out at 4th grade level, because that's when reading starts to get more complicated. Is he mildly dyslexic? That would explain some of the difficulties you've mentioned. My older son is dyslexic but I didn't realize it, because it was mild.

 

 

Can you recommend any resources for teaching those?

 

http://www.proedinc.com/customer/productView.aspx?ID=2745&SearchWord=Metacognitive%20program%20for%20treating%20Auditory%20Processing%20Disorder

 

 

See he doesn't struggle with any of that at all. LOL I probably struggle with it more than he does (I often have to see people's lips in order to truly hear them). He can repeat exactly what someone says. It just doesn't actually MEAN anything to him.:tongue_smilie:

 

This, maybe?

 

http://www.speech-language-therapy.com/spld.htm

[razorbackmama]

I remember reading that sometimes dyslexics max out at 4th grade level, because that's when reading starts to get more complicated. Is he mildly dyslexic? That would explain some of the difficulties you've mentioned. My older son is dyslexic but I didn't realize it, because it was mild.

 

I don't think so. If he is it is SUPER mild. He has all of the characteristics that I listed in my 2nd post in this thread. It's almost like they took a list of what I've seen in him and then declared that it has a name LOL. Also, since he does equally poor in what he hears as what he reads, dyslexia wouldn't really explain that.

 

http://www.proedinc.com/customer/productView.aspx?ID=2745&SearchWord=Metacognitive%20program%20for%20treating%20Auditory%20Processing%20Disorder

 

 

 

 

This, maybe?

 

http://www.speech-language-therapy.com/spld.htm

Thanks! I'll check those out!

[peacefully]

.

[razorbackmama]

Fascinating discussion! I'm learning so much about how a typical speech therapy program might look, because up until very recently, I had no idea that our SLP's program was unique. It strikes me that Kirstin's son's issues are similar to what I saw with my ELL students, particularly the Asian students since their native language was syntactically so different from English.

 

Kirstin, some of the examples you gave make me wonder if some of the instructional materials that are intended for ELL students might be useful for your son. Those type of materials tend to give lots and lots of contextual cues (visuals too), audio materials emphasize enunciation and inflection, there is an emphasis on vocabulary and usage, etc. After I looked up what meta-linguistic strategies are used in speech therapy, I realized that similar strategies are often taught to ELL students.

 

Just a thought....

You're not the only one who has had that thought! ;) I have actually SAID before (I think it was to my husband) that it's as if English is not his native language! The kicker is FINDING materials that aren't a pain in the patooty to use in a homeschool.:glare:

 

Perhaps you could back up with vocabulary and usage, and begin to analyze sentences that your ds knows cold. Perhaps you could start teaching those meta-linguistic strategies while reviewing vocabulary and syntactical constructions that are easy for your ds. I'm sure it feels like a step backward, but on the other hand, our SLP was once saying to me that sometimes language-processing kids don't know what being under their threshold feels like. They hardly ever get to experience what it's like for their brain to work smoothly. If you can get them there and build from that, they can return to that state more easily.

 

That makes sense.

 

Kirstin, was it you who said that you are currently using V/V? I can't remember now.

I'm not CURRENTLY, but we've tried it in the past. Visualizing doesn't seem to be his problem, but making sure that what he's visualizing is CORRECT is.:glare: I sure wish I had the money to go to a training sometime!

[MomtoMERLD]

I was the one who had the school doing some v/v with her but it was not by an experienced clinician. That program is very expensive and I wonder despite my training in it, if I should skip my doing it and just send her to the V/V office? Agh!

 

yllek, the therapy almost sounds like the PACE program. I had a learning specialist do that with both my kids and saw some gains, but that was years ago. I feel like I have given my kids private SLP or learning specialist for the past ten years and have seen improvements but no great gains. Definitely no transference between therapy and the classroom. Perhaps MERLD is not like that. Perhaps there never is a way to create an interested reader or great talker. I am so overwhelmed with my youngest that I do not know what program would be the best for her MERLD for homeschool or if my son will be able to maintain his ability to perform well in his classical high school. I really need some advice. :confused: