Homeschooling a musically gifted kid?

[Murphy101]

I actually agree with this. Lessons killed my daughter's enthusiasm for violin. She had to quit for years, even though she was moving faster than anyone her teachers had ever seen.

 

However, everyone in our family plays music all the time, and we try to hang out with people who are very musically inclined (in choirs and bands and such). If a child didn't have that as a daily influence, lessons might be worthwhile. But if I were in that position, I'd be seeking out other things before lessons that were more relaxed introductions to music -- assuming I knew what I knew, which I might not know, if we didn't already have a musically intense house.

 

Well I don't play an instrument and have zero inclination to do so. Dh played sax for about 10 years back in school, but hasn't bothered since. He was also in choir, but is happy with just karaoke now. So far what we do seems to be enough for our kids. They enjoy music, play instruments they want to play, and it isn't stressful or any of us. :)

[MaMa2005]

 

I'd be careful about starting lessons on a child early. I would want to find a teacher who had very little in the way of expectations, but with a lot of enthusiasm no matter how fast or slow the child went -- in other words, someone who was willing to let the child dictate the pace while somehow providing a lot of encouragement to practice. And while some kids may start fast, they might slow down, depending on their developmental ability. You don't want a teacher who makes the mistake of assuming the child will continue to move at a fast pace just like an older one might be expected to do.

 

 

 

This is exactly the type teacher from which DS will be taking lessons. However, if DS does not have some small expectations of him, he will languish. For our family, we have found the perfect fit.

[CLHCO]

ETA: Wow. I think you all found my soup box. I think this is the longest post I've ever written here. :lol:

I have to agree with zaichici. DS showed a talent for music at 3. We have a dear family friend who teaches piano and she refused to even entertain teaching him until he was 7 because of the wiggly, low attention span, etc. of young children. Her theory was also that she could teach him in 6 months what it would take three years to teach as a younger child. Thus, we took her advice.

 

I will admit, I think the world misses out on the incredible potential of those wiggly boys. My son was/is one of them, likely on some level of ADHD, and he was a bit of a nightmare for his teacher to try to teach. She was very serious, preferred well-behaved, "serious" students. Initially, his low attention span meant his sound was terrible because he couldn't focus on correct violin technique, but I had years of teaching/studying music with young children and I could see what she couldn't. Those perfect-posture young girls who could focus played very stiff. It was always about pleasing the teacher to them, not making the music. The very minute it clicked for my son to make his sound better by correcting one little thing at a time as his attention could grasp it, he left his teacher's head spinning, because for him it was the music, and how it spoke to him. She changed her tune to one of extreme excitement - though he still made her nuts at times!

 

Never underestimate the ability of a wiggly, distracted boy. ;)

 

And you have to think about the flip side of this issue as well. There are young kids who are quite interested in music who have their interest killed by lessons that are too early and that expect too much.

 

I'd be careful about starting lessons on a child early. I would want to find a teacher who had very little in the way of expectations, but with a lot of enthusiasm no matter how fast or slow the child went -- in other words, someone who was willing to let the child dictate the pace while somehow providing a lot of encouragement to practice.

 

This is a worthy thing to consider as well. I'll explain more further down. It certainly can happen, even under the best of circumstances.

 

I also don't like sending the message that one has to grab that musically gifted young child and get them onto an instrument quick or they will lose the opportunity to ever play well. It just isn't true. The big problem with older beginners is that they just don't have as much time to practice. But, if they're motivated, they often make up for that with sheer determination and better coordination.

 

Actually, I think there is something rather magical about the teen years. Think about it. Their coordination and reflexes are at a very high point in their lives, they have increased attention spans from what they had in childhood, and are still at a point when they are not having to support a family, therefore, depending on the family and other commitments, many have extra time to devote to it as well. My older daughters really struggled in piano at six with the coordination and reading. I let them drop it and take up concert instruments in the 3rd grade, which they did ok, but not fabulous. At 13 they started their current instruments, a passion kicked in they never had with the others, and they have just flown. They had exposure, but it wasn't a burden, and it paved the way for those later years.

 

Actually, I just realized that my husband didn't take up any instrument until he was in his late teens. He had piano lessons for a few months in grade school but got frustrated. Then in his late teens he took up the banjo and got good enough that when he plays in guitar stores, the owners ask if he'd like to teach banjo there.

You had me at banjo. :001_wub:

 

I actually agree with this. Lessons killed my daughter's enthusiasm for violin. She had to quit for years, even though she was moving faster than anyone her teachers had ever seen.

 

 

My son hit the same brick wall over a year ago, even though he loves playing and really connects with music. He never really stopped loving it, it was only a problem heading to advanced skills, due to his immaturity. At 8 years old, he got a used viola and really wanted to switch. His teacher requested we wait until he gets through the Vivaldi concerto first, though it would likely take him a year from where he was. He agreed, but he wasn't old enough to understand how long a year would be. Additionally, he was not yet "owning" his own practice, but still having to go through each step with someone, so as he got to the fine bow skills needed, burn-out kicked in. By nine I requested we switch him immediately to viola in hopes it would help. It didn't because he got tripped up by reading the alto clef.

 

We chose to drop Suzuki completely for simple (non-competitive) fiddle on alternate weeks. His fiddle teacher knows the basics of Suzuki so he can make sure no terrible habits develop, but for now just teaches him cool stuff to play. When he's older and ready to own it, we'll put him back into the classical realm. He's really enjoying himself. Nothing says fun on the fiddle like a fast Big Mon. :D

 

In truth, very few of the highest concert level players begin after the age of 10, though we can quibble about what causes this. There are advantages in developing an instrument through the development of childhood, but most of us aren't expecting to create a concert violinist, and one doesn't need to be one to excel at music, and especially to simply enjoy it through your life. I personally think enjoying it is more important.

 

I have no problems with started kids young or old, but it should be always gauged by what the child can handle. Just because a kid is hyper and inattentive doesn't mean he can't be a fantastic musician when approached correctly. Of course, just because a kid is great at 8, doesn't mean there won't be a need to back off a bit at 9 or 10. Additionally, just because a kid struggles and has no passion for it at six, doesn't mean you won't have an incredibly gifted child at 15. Music is so very different for everyone, kids bloom at different times.

Edited January 1, 2011 by CLHCO

[zaichiki]

In truth, very few of the highest concert level players begin before the age of 10, though we can quibble about what causes this.

 

I have no plans to create a professional musician (though, admittedly, my dd has confessed this as a future goal of hers), but I do want to share something I was told by one of dd's Suzuki teachers.

 

She went into a college class at Juilliard and asked for a show of hands to see how many kids started young w/ the Suzuki method. She says nearly every hand went up.

[CLHCO]

I have no plans to create a professional musician (though, admittedly, my dd has confessed this as a future goal of hers), but I do want to share something I was told by one of dd's Suzuki teachers.

 

She went into a college class at Juilliard and asked for a show of hands to see how many kids started young w/ the Suzuki method. She says nearly every hand went up.

 

Oh, shoot! I worded that wrong. It should say "Very few of the highest concert level players begin after the age of 10."

 

The absolute opposite of what I wrote is true. My brain was muddled. I think I was trying to say something like that, but "very few will be concert level players if they start after the age of 10" got crossed with "nearly all begin before the age of 10."

 

I'm going to change it in my original post.

Edited January 1, 2011 by CLHCO

[zaichiki]

I have to agree with zaichici. DS showed a talent for music at 3. We have a dear family friend who teaches piano and she refused to even entertain teaching him until he was 7 because of the wiggly, low attention span, etc. of young children. Her theory was also that she could teach him in 6 months what it would take three years to teach as a younger child. Thus, we took her advice.

 

Fast forward two years and DS gets enrolled in a group keyboarding class (that was a package with some other enrichment classes). After just 4 weeks, he was moved up one class. Another 4 weeks pass and he advances 2 classes. At this point, I am informed by the director that he is musically gifted :blink:. He played in his first recital in December 2010 and was the youngest by three years. Needless to say, he starts private lessons the middle of January.

 

A friend, who has played in a world-reknowned symphony orchestra, told me that professional classical musicians can tell how old another musician was when they started studying. My kids' instrument teachers agreed with this. (I later told them what she said and asked what they thought.) One of dd's teachers explained that it's like an accent in spoken language: a child who begins playing the violin at a very young age develops a certain natural musicality that older students, even those who become professional musicians, can never attain. Two professional violinists that I know started at 9 and both lament that they didn't start earlier. (They *are* successful professional violinists, but they say they play differently from others who started at 3 and 4 *and they can hear the difference.*) I've always found that interesting. (Not my reason for starting my kids young at all -- just an interesting bit of information.)

[Donna]

I have seen teens take to music when they haven't had formal lessons before. I've even seen adults who have taken up instruments (when they have never played anything before) and learn them well enough to be performing for pay.

 

I think this depends greatly on the instrument and what type of performing for pay you are discussing. Violin or piano as a soloist in a major concert hall, unlikely started as an adult. Guitar, banjo, flute, etc...possible to be playing for pay in various venues. There is such a wide range of possibilities with music and not all even involve instrument study. My dd also plays Irish fiddle and we attend music sessions frequently. My dd is generally the only child unless her brother joins her (playing guitar, banjo, or mandolin)and many of the adults began their instruments as adults, though none of the fiddlers who play well started later than early teens and you can tell the adults who played violin young then took up fiddle as adults...just a difference in their "feel" of the music. Many of the musicians we know get paid to play for gigs.

 

And you have to think about the flip side of this issue as well. There are young kids who are quite interested in music who have their interest killed by lessons that are too early and that expect too much.

 

I think this is a real issue especially when it is the parent whose dreams are being realized through the child's playing. I think it is important for the child to dictate the instrument choice and rate of learning. I know a number of children whose parents pushed then complain that the child doesn't enjoy playing. I am friends with a well-known violinist whose mother's goal for him was to be a concert violinist. She got him lessons very young, forced hours and hours of practice, and made his entire life about music. When he was in his teens, she passed away and he gave up his instrument for a year or more until he decided it was the only thing he knew how to do and finished his education in performance. He plays beautifully but doesn't love it or even like playing. It is just his job. Sad.

 

I'd be careful about starting lessons on a child early. I would want to find a teacher who had very little in the way of expectations, but with a lot of enthusiasm no matter how fast or slow the child went -- in other words, someone who was willing to let the child dictate the pace while somehow providing a lot of encouragement to practice. And while some kids may start fast, they might slow down, depending on their developmental ability. You don't want a teacher who makes the mistake of assuming the child will continue to move at a fast pace just like an older one might be expected to do.

 

This is so true. There are teachers who take pride in having young children who play very advanced repertoire and some even skip steps with a child who seems capable. It is important to have a teacher who looks out for the best interest of the child even if that means slowing them down to develop technique they will need later.

 

 

To be honest, I'm not even sure I believe in anyone being musically "gifted". There are those who are fascinated by music, who are willing to put in hours of practice, and who are really paying attention while they're practicing, rather than just going through the motions. They may look gifted, but the fact is that they're just dedicated.

 

I have done a lot of reading on this topic. I have read all those books about putting in your 10.000 hours and I believe them to a point. No aptitude in the world can be nurtured without being willing to practice. When people comment about dd's ability, my response is generally "she likes to practice" because I think that is a bigger gift than any musical aptitude she might possess. However, in my experience, there is something else that sets kids who excel at music (or art or math) apart. Would you say a mathematical genuis doesn't have a "gift," just a fascination with math and a willingness to practice?

 

If you would, then it is just a matter of semantics. Anyone can learn the technique associated with playing whatever instrument but there is a difference in how the instrument is played. That same violinist I discussed above once heard dd fiddling and said it is in her bones. Many of the best fiddlers in Irish music have heard her play and been astounded at her feel of the music....sure there are the fast fingers, ability to shift, bowing skills, memory for tunes, etc...attributed to practice but it is her feel for the rhythm/beat of the tunes and ability to add in her own variations that fascinate them most. When she auditioned for orchestra, she wasn't playing as advanced repertoire as most of those much older kids. It was how she played that made the conductor take an interest in her.

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[Greenmama2]

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Youtube is also an amazing invention for beginner musicians. One can see excellent performances alongside not so great ones. It becomes so much easier to critique one's own playing -- and to get the inspiration to work harder.

I have to agree with this. Inspired by a PP on this thread I taught myself to play an REM song on ukelele last night lol.