How do you teach Latin conjugations?

[Hunter's Moon]

I am in the 11th grade and decided to begin Latin (I know, late start).

 

I am in my third year of Italian instruction and have trouble with conjugations with that too.

 

I figured Latin would help me with this.

 

Anyways, I *always* get confused with conjugations. I somehow get it confused with 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person. All the ordinal numbers confuse me and I just find of mix 'em up.

 

How do you help your children with this? I will not be offended in anyway if you point me towards a pre-school level website or explanation.

 

Thanks!

[Mama Lynx]

Do you mean that the whole 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person thing messes you up? That you find that confusing?

 

Think of yourself as the center of the universe. First person is always you. In the singular, it is just you. In the plural, it is you and whoever you are with. "I" and "we."

 

The second person is someone you are speaking to directly. If you are speaking to one person, then it's "you" singular. If you are speaking to more than one person, it's "you" plural.

 

The third person is anyone else. Those people over there. He, she, it, they.

 

It starts from yourself, and moves outward.

 

For learning a conjugation, I find that nothing works quite like chanting and writing it out until you know it cold :) But I can't tell if you mean that your difficulty is with memorizing the conjugations, or with translating, understanding how they work in a sentence and which to use when.

[Hunter's Moon]

Do you mean that the whole 1st person, 2nd person, 3rd person thing messes you up? That you find that confusing?

 

Think of yourself as the center of the universe. First person is always you. In the singular, it is just you. In the plural, it is you and whoever you are with. "I" and "we."

 

The second person is someone you are speaking to directly. If you are speaking to one person, then it's "you" singular. If you are speaking to more than one person, it's "you" plural.

 

The third person is anyone else. Those people over there. He, she, it, they.

 

It starts from yourself, and moves outward.

 

For learning a conjugation, I find that nothing works quite like chanting and writing it out until you know it cold :) But I can't tell if you mean that your difficulty is with memorizing the conjugations, or with translating, understanding how they work in a sentence and which to use when.

 

What confuses me is all the different forms that one root word can take. I know that our language is like that (see, saw, seen) but I learned it naturally by immersion. With Latin and Italian, I'm seeing it on paper and having to figure out the mechanics instead of just picking it up. YKWIM?

 

I also have trouble with the fact that there are six different tenses.

 

So when you say chant, do you mean chanting the present form, then the imperfect form, then the future form, and so on?

 

For example: amo, amas, amat, amamus, amatis, amant?

 

That is just the present 1st conjugation though, so I'd have to do that with all 4 conjugations in the present?

 

Do you learn the present forms first for all 4 conjugations and then move onto the other 5 tenses?

[MGK]

We learned all the tenses for the first conjugation verbs, chanting exactly the way you mentioned until my children knew them well. Incidently, this took a full year for my middle school aged children. Then our curriculum moved very quickly through the other tenses. It does seem overwhelming at first, but then patterns tend to emerge as you work through it.

 

I have found that chanting is a great way to cement Latin conjugations and declensions. Nothing else seems to work as well for my children. Good luck to you!

 

Melanie

[Caitilin]

Stephanie, if I were you, I would do amo, amare in all the tenses you know, then go on to moneo, monere, and so on. Then you can see the patterns within the conjugation; it's easier to see them across conjugations once you have learned to see them within, KWIM?

 

As far as 6 tenses, we have all those in English too, we just don't tend to talk about them. :)

 

I love--present

I was loving--imperfect

I will love--future

I have loved--perfect

I had loved --pluperfect

I will have loved--future perfect

[Hunter's Moon]

Stephanie, if I were you, I would do amo, amare in all the tenses you know, then go on to moneo, monere, and so on. Then you can see the patterns within the conjugation; it's easier to see them across conjugations once you have learned to see them within, KWIM?

 

As far as 6 tenses, we have all those in English too, we just don't tend to talk about them. :)

 

I love--present

I was loving--imperfect

I will love--future

I have loved--perfect

I had loved --pluperfect

I will have loved--future perfect

 

So what you are saying is work on ALL the tenses in the FIRST conjugation, then when that is cemented, work on ALL the tenses in the SECOND conjugation and so on?

 

So instead of doing the present tense in the 4 conjugations, I do the 6 tenses in 1 conjugation, and then move on?

 

It would make sense, instead of skipping around. I am just trying to see if I have gleaned all your wisdom from your post or am missing something.

 

I have another question, involving declensions. Declensions are with nouns, correct? So, are declensions just the singular form and the plural form of a noun? What do the noun cases have to do with the declensions?

 

For some reason, my mind cannot process this. I think I am going to try memorizing the noun cases, and THEN move onto declensions. After I work on the conjugations, of course. Would that be a good idea?

 

I guess a good question would be, for someone who has trouble with ENGLISH grammar, how would you have them go about learning Latin?

 

I have a lot of trouble with noun cases especially, so I really don't understand how declensions work. What is the difference between a nominative plural and a genitive plural, YKWIM? Do they have their own specific meanings, or is that just how they're used in a sentence?

Edited November 22, 2010 by BeatleMania

[MGK]

So what you are saying is work on ALL the tenses in the FIRST conjugation, then when that is cemented, work on ALL the tenses in the SECOND conjugation and so on?

 

 

 

Yes, exactly right on the conjugations.

 

A declension is just a family of nouns. Latin nouns have different endings according to how they are used in a sentence. The nouns are categorized according to the way they do this. (For example, a first declension noun in Nominative singular always ends in -a)

 

The parts of speech generally correlate to what we use in English:

 

Nominative = Subject or Predicate Nominative

Genitive = Possessive

Dative = Indirect object

Accusative = direct object (and sometimes object of preposition)

Ablative = object of preposition

 

So, I would learn 1st declension nouns and all their endings, then move on to 2nd declension, etc.

[MGK]

I guess a good question would be, for someone who has trouble with ENGLISH grammar, how would you have them go about learning Latin?

 

 

 

This is an excellent question that I'm not sure I know how to answer. I do know that people say learning Latin is a great way to understand English grammar.

 

Personally, I think it might be easier to study up on the English parts of speech first.

 

*disclaimer* I'm no Latin expert - I'm sure there are many on this board who are more qualified to have this discussion and I hope you will chime in!

Edited November 22, 2010 by MGK

[Rosie_0801]

This is an excellent question that I'm not sure I know how to answer. I do know that people say learning Latin is a great way to understand English grammar.

 

Personally, I think it might be easier to study up on the English parts of speech first.

 

 

It seems to be a question of whether you are a parts to whole learner or whole to parts, as far as I can tell. I'm working through English grammar to prepare myself for learning Latin because that sounds like the only sensible way to do things ;) Hubby, on the other hand, thinks I'm crazy and if a bod wants to study Latin, they should just get in there and do it because they can always go back and look up a participle (or something :tongue_smilie:) when it matters.

 

Rosie

[MomOfOneFunOne]

We memorize by chanting and writing but we use all 4 vb families:

So we chant

Porto portas portat portamus portatis portant

habeo habes habet . . .

pono . . .

capio . . .

audio . . .

 

that way we chant a whole chart for each verb family: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd IO, and 4th. Chanting/writing and then chanting and writing some more.

 

As far as understanding 1st, 2nd, and 3rd person, I think the pp's explanation is pretty good. If I am in it, 1st. If you are in it, 2nd. If anyone else is in it, 3rd. If I am in it with someone else, 1st plural. If you are in it with someone else, 2nd plural. If someone else has someone else, 3rd plural.

[MomOfOneFunOne]

Yes, exactly right on the conjugations.

 

A declension is just a family of nouns. Latin nouns have different endings according to how they are used in a sentence. The nouns are categorized according to the way they do this. (For example, a first declension noun in Nominative singular always ends in -a)

 

The parts of speech generally correlate to what we use in English:

 

Nominative = Subject or Predicate Nominative

Genitive = Possessive

Dative = Indirect object

Accusative = direct object (and sometimes object of preposition)

Ablative = object of preposition

 

So, I would learn 1st declension nouns and all their endings, then move on to 2nd declension, etc.

 

That!

 

Amo, amas, amat, amamus, amatis, amant. or whatever your verb is, until you know it cold.

 

Then go on to your second conjugatioin verb.

 

What program are you using?

[ereks mom]

...we got to the perfect tense. (We're learning Latin together.) We were fine with present and imperfect, and future and pluperfect are not so bad, either. But we hit a wall with perfect tense. It's because a different stem is used--so you have to know the principal parts of each verb as you learn it. And then there are the irregular verbs and the mixed conjugation verbs... If someone could teach me how to simplify all of that, it would be wonderful. :tongue_smilie:

[LND1218]

We have this great chart - a friend of mine makes these laminated charts. The are blank on one side and have the "answers" on the other. PM me if you want more information.

 

I agree do all of 1st conjugation first.

[SophiaH]

 

I guess a good question would be, for someone who has trouble with ENGLISH grammar, how would you have them go about learning Latin?

 

 

 

There is a very good book called English Grammar for Students of Latin. I think it would be an excellent help for you. It's thorough but not intimidating--about 170 pages.

[Hunter's Moon]

That!

 

Amo, amas, amat, amamus, amatis, amant. or whatever your verb is, until you know it cold.

 

Then go on to your second conjugatioin verb.

 

What program are you using?

 

At the moment, I'm not using a program. I am working through these lessons. They are amazing. There are also worksheets, excerpts from Latin textbooks that he refers to in his lessons, and Latin II is coming soon. Latin I has 31 lessons though and I am liking it. I am also using this for translations and vocab.

 

There is a very good book called English Grammar for Students of Latin. I think it would be an excellent help for you. It's thorough but not intimidating--about 170 pages.

 

Thanks! Definitely going to give this book a look :001_smile:

[ElizabethB]

Latin for Children has cute little stick figure pictures that are helpful!

 

They show a few on their sample pdf, about halfway through:

 

http://www.classicalacademicpress.com/images/samples/lfcA_sample.pdf

 

I am working through their Latin Alive along with the DVD, it is well worth the money, it is helpful for me to be walked through things.

[Hunter's Moon]

Latin for Children has cute little stick figure pictures that are helpful!

 

They show a few on their sample pdf, about halfway through:

 

http://www.classicalacademicpress.com/images/samples/lfcA_sample.pdf

 

I am working through their Latin Alive along with the DVD, it is well worth the money, it is helpful for me to be walked through things.

 

That looks wonderful!!!!! :drool5:

 

I really wish I could get it. Maybe next year :001_unsure:

[Hunter's Moon]

I also have a question on principal parts.

 

I know I use the infinitive (2nd principal part) when conjugating, but what are the others there for?? Should I not even look at those at the moment?

 

In Italian, we only worked with infinitive, so same with Latin?

[MGK]

1st principal part = 1st person, present tense, active voice (amo - I love)

2nd principal part = infinitive (amare - to love)

3rd principal part = perfect active indicative (amavi - I loved, I have loved, I did love)

4th principal part = perfect passive participle (amatus - having been loved)

 

You will only need the 1st 2 principal parts in beginning Latin, but it is good to go ahead and memorize all 4, because eventually you will use them.

[forty-two]

 

The Intelligent Person's Guide to the Latin Language is great for giving a nice big picture view of Latin grammar, plus it includes all sorts of historical tidbits about how certain aspects came to be. It really helped me pull together all the grammar bits into one cohesive whole, get a feel as to how they all work together.

[MomOfOneFunOne]

I also have a question on principal parts.

 

I know I use the infinitive (2nd principal part) when conjugating, but what are the others there for?? Should I not even look at those at the moment?

 

In Italian, we only worked with infinitive, so same with Latin?

 

Oh, girl, memorize the principle parts NOW. Do not wait! Every time you are introduced to a new verb, you should memorize all 4 parts, definition, and how it declines.

 

Later when you get to perfect, supine, et c, you'll regret it if you don't memorize those principle parts now. I'm regretting it now. I made sure my daughter knew them pretty well but now I'm struggling some.

[Hunter's Moon]

Oh, girl, memorize the principle parts NOW. Do not wait! Every time you are introduced to a new verb, you should memorize all 4 parts, definition, and how it declines.

 

Later when you get to perfect, supine, et c, you'll regret it if you don't memorize those principle parts now. I'm regretting it now. I made sure my daughter knew them pretty well but now I'm struggling some.

 

Thanks, this is what I've been seeing everywhere on the internet.

 

In reference to the bolded part, how many new verbs would you suggest/do you introduce every week?

[MomOfOneFunOne]

Of course I meant conjugate. . .

 

We use Lingua Latina and get anywhere from 10 to 20 verbs per chapter. I really don't know but my daughter thinks this is right.

 

I cannot stress how important all 4 parts are. You'll be going along quite merrily never using the 3rd and 4th parts. You might be tempted to b/c a bit lazy and stop memorizing them. Don't! Just when you least expect it . . . You'll regret not memorizing them.

[Hunter's Moon]

Of course I meant conjugate. . .

 

We use Lingua Latina and get anywhere from 10 to 20 verbs per chapter. I really don't know but my daughter thinks this is right.

 

I cannot stress how important all 4 parts are. You'll be going along quite merrily never using the 3rd and 4th parts. You might be tempted to b/c a bit lazy and stop memorizing them. Don't! Just when you least expect it . . . You'll regret not memorizing them.

 

I'll definitely remember, I promise.

[Ester Maria]

When it comes to memorizing such things, you just have to repeat them, repeat them and repeat them more ad nauseam, both orally and in writing. Pick a verb and write the whole paradigm, then pick another verb from the same group and go through the whole paradigm orally, then write the third verb without looking at the scheme of the first, etc. Sooner or later, it will stick.

Irregular verbs, the same thing. You need to practice the whole pattern until you know it cold.

It should be completely automatic to recite it when somebody tells you "amo, indicative present" or "venio, subjunctive imperfect" - all the paradigms must be learned and practiced - and the same goes for irregular verbs. There is quite some amount of memorization.

 

The same goes for Italian, in theory, but in practice, you have quite some advantage to be able to do it "by the ear" if you have huge amounts of input (read a lot, listen to the language a lot, etc.). That's how I learned English irregular verbs - even though they did make me to go through the list once or twice at school, 90% of it came from practice, from stumbling over the same forms over and over again and just getting used to it. Italian is somewhat more morphologically irregular than English, but the principle should be the same.

 

Nominal declensions, same thing as conjugations. Learn one example of each and then go through the paradigm multiple times with multiple words. Remember to learn the new words in "N, G, gender" order (terra, -ae, f.), ALWAYS, the same way you memorize the four principal parts of verbs.

 

I recommend Wheelock's if you become serious about learning Latin.

[christine in al]

you aren't late. I'm 48 and loving learning Latin along with dc.

 

We are liking Lating Prep. you sound past that in most things, but you may want to loop around and review the intro material.

 

OR you could look at So You Really Want to Learn Latin.

 

and also Latin Exercises

 

all from Galore Park.

( Remember to change poundssterling for dollars US when you are looking at price. If they look good to you, you can order them from the book depository , or Ray's Horrible Books. for free shipping to US)

 

you go girl!

~christine in alabama

[Hunter's Moon]

When it comes to memorizing such things, you just have to repeat them, repeat them and repeat them more ad nauseam, both orally and in writing. Pick a verb and write the whole paradigm, then pick another verb from the same group and go through the whole paradigm orally, then write the third verb without looking at the scheme of the first, etc. Sooner or later, it will stick.

Irregular verbs, the same thing. You need to practice the whole pattern until you know it cold.

It should be completely automatic to recite it when somebody tells you "amo, indicative present" or "venio, subjunctive imperfect" - all the paradigms must be learned and practiced - and the same goes for irregular verbs. There is quite some amount of memorization.

 

The same goes for Italian, in theory, but in practice, you have quite some advantage to be able to do it "by the ear" if you have huge amounts of input (read a lot, listen to the language a lot, etc.). That's how I learned English irregular verbs - even though they did make me to go through the list once or twice at school, 90% of it came from practice, from stumbling over the same forms over and over again and just getting used to it. Italian is somewhat more morphologically irregular than English, but the principle should be the same.

 

Nominal declensions, same thing as conjugations. Learn one example of each and then go through the paradigm multiple times with multiple words. Remember to learn the new words in "N, G, gender" order (terra, -ae, f.), ALWAYS, the same way you memorize the four principal parts of verbs.

 

I recommend Wheelock's if you become serious about learning Latin.

 

Thank you. I'm working on -are verbs at the moment and already noticing I'm getting quicker at conjugating. I just ordered Wheelock's from the library, and plan to ask for it for Christmas.

 

Thanks!

 

you aren't late. I'm 48 and loving learning Latin along with dc.

 

We are liking Lating Prep. you sound past that in most things, but you may want to loop around and review the intro material.

 

OR you could look at So You Really Want to Learn Latin.

 

and also Latin Exercises

 

all from Galore Park.

( Remember to change poundssterling for dollars US when you are looking at price. If they look good to you, you can order them from the book depository , or Ray's Horrible Books. for free shipping to US)

 

you go girl!

~christine in alabama

 

Thanks for the curriculum suggestion. I'm liking what I see.