Meeting with a Dietician this week for Swimmer boy ...Pancreatitis

[ZooRho]

My 15 yo Swimmer boy has has 2 bouts of pancrea****. Acute attacks.

 

THere seems to be no reason for these attacks. AND trust me I have read enough we have a top notch hospital and drs, AND to boot the boy has had 9 zillion test and so far everything is negative. So for now we are going to see if we can keep it under control with diet, we don't know if this will make a difference but it is the only thing we can control.

 

So any advice?

 

Any thoughts I should take in?

 

also the swim coach gave us some information called Eat to Compete from http://www.eattocompete.com/home.asp

 

anyone have any experience with /knowledge of that.

 

My concern is keeping him with enough calories to swim and keep the fat counts down too. The boy HATES most veggies and likes very few fruits.

[Jean in Newcastle]

My MIL gets pancreatitis and really has to watch her fat intake. I've heard that probiotics are important to take if you are prone to it. I've also heard that sometimes food allergies are involved - you might want to explore this with a naturopathic doctor.

[ZooRho]

My MIL gets pancreatitis and really has to watch her fat intake. I've heard that probiotics are important to take if you are prone to it. I've also heard that sometimes food allergies are involved - you might want to explore this with a naturopathic doctor.

Where did you see this. I read that you SHOULD NOT take them.

 

Does you MIL have gall bladder issues?

 

The gi drs have said to keep his fat counts lower but his swim coaches are concerned about him getting enough fat. It will be a fine line for him.

 

Why would a naturopathic dr be different.

 

He has no other issues

[Jean in Newcastle]

Where did you see this. I read that you SHOULD NOT take them.

 

Does you MIL have gall bladder issues?

 

The gi drs have said to keep his fat counts lower but his swim coaches are concerned about him getting enough fat. It will be a fine line for him.

 

Why would a naturopathic dr be different.

 

He has no other issues

 

Yes, my MIL has gall bladder issues. She also is diabetic now because her pancreas isn't working correctly. She's in her 70's though.

 

A naturopathic doctor is often better for conditions better treated by nutrition and lifestyle changes because of their focus on finding the source of the problem and in treating the whole person. They are often more well-versed in finding food allergies with blood tests as well as elimination diets.

 

I found the recommendation for probiotics on a couple of natural treatment sites. But honestly I don't know how reliable these sites are. This is one of them: http://www.nutralegacy.com/blog/general-healthcare/7-best-foods-for-pancreatitis-diet/ Since you've heard otherwise, I would double and triple check before following this advice. My dh who is diabetic, has had his gallbladder removed and has pancreas problems but not pancreatitis takes high doses of probiotics with good results.

[ZooRho]

Thanks for the info.

 

yeah pancreatitis is almost unheard of in children. Our ped office has never seen it. We have been the talk of the office.

 

He does not seem to have any gall bladder issues.

 

I did forget to ask the gi dr about the probiotics. and then I read that some where in all the info about pancreatitis so it freaked me a bit.

 

Yes, my MIL has gall bladder issues. She also is diabetic now because her pancreas isn't working correctly. She's in her 70's though.

 

A naturopathic doctor is often better for conditions better treated by nutrition and lifestyle changes because of their focus on finding the source of the problem and in treating the whole person. They are often more well-versed in finding food allergies with blood tests as well as elimination diets.

 

I found the recommendation for probiotics on a couple of natural treatment sites. But honestly I don't know how reliable these sites are. This is one of them: http://www.nutralegacy.com/blog/general-healthcare/7-best-foods-for-pancreatitis-diet/ Since you've heard otherwise, I would double and triple check before following this advice. My dh who is diabetic, has had his gallbladder removed and has pancreas problems but not pancreatitis takes high doses of probiotics with good results.

[all4them]

MY dh had about 4 bouts with "idiopathic" pancreatis in his early 20's. It is not only a fat issue, but also a bulk issue. It may be had to get the swimmers calories, but he should eat 6 SMALL meals a day. The dr could also prescribe digestive enzymes to take with each meal to help his pancreas out(by not creating too many enzymes that will get blocked up in the panc). You can also buy those at health food stores.

Don't take ANYTHING with alcohol in it....even medicines. Get plenty of rest, and learn to deal with stress well.

There are a few things that can cause this that take a while to find. There is a blood test for inherited Panc problems, and a ercp to test the sphincter od oddi, I think. It can spasm, causing this in an otherwise healthy induvidual.

 

HTH.

Christina

[ZooRho]

EEK 4, did he have it any more or was it just those 4. YEah poor ds has almost resigned himself to that well it will just happen.

 

I have had a bit of concern that it may be more about the too much rather than just a fat issue. One meal was very lean the other over fat. but both were WAY over a normal meal. HE is a teen boy so it is hard to be different. I have said there are things that could be worse.

 

Thank for the comment about the alcohol in drugs, don't know that I would have thought about that.

 

He has had the blood test- came back negative. He had an MRCP- not internal but the MRI one- again negative, they won't do the ERCP unless it comes back.

 

 

ON and he is a LOW STRESS PERSON. I call him my peace child NOTHING really ruffles his feathers.

 

Thanks for the help.

MY dh had about 4 bouts with "idiopathic" pancreatis in his early 20's. It is not only a fat issue, but also a bulk issue. It may be had to get the swimmers calories, but he should eat 6 SMALL meals a day. The dr could also prescribe digestive enzymes to take with each meal to help his pancreas out(by not creating too many enzymes that will get blocked up in the panc). You can also buy those at health food stores.

Don't take ANYTHING with alcohol in it....even medicines. Get plenty of rest, and learn to deal with stress well.

There are a few things that can cause this that take a while to find. There is a blood test for inherited Panc problems, and a ercp to test the sphincter od oddi, I think. It can spasm, causing this in an otherwise healthy induvidual.

 

HTH.

Christina

[Quad Shot Academy]

Did they do an ultrasound to look for gallstones and a sweat test for CF? We were told our infant had a pancreas problem and it ended up being gallstones. They did not even look for gall stones since it is so rare in children, but found them on an MRI of his pancreas. He has permanent pancreas damage and some liver damage for passing so many stones over the years. He had his gall bladder out and we have to watch his fats. I find chips, fried food and restaurant food to be the worst for him. He seems to do fine with dairy fat like cheese and ice cream.

[ZooRho]

Did they do an ultrasound to look for gallstones and a sweat test for CF? We were told our infant had a pancreas problem and it ended up being gallstones. They did not even look for gall stones since it is so rare in children, but found them on an MRI of his pancreas. He has permanent pancreas damage and some liver damage for passing so many stones over the years. He had his gall bladder out and we have to watch his fats. I find chips, fried food and restaurant food to be the worst for him. He seems to do fine with dairy fat like cheese and ice cream.

Wow sorry they didn't test for Gallstones with your child.

 

Yes he has had several ultrasounds and several MRI's ov various kinds. In fact I'm wondering about overexposure at this point. They actually did 2 different ultrasounds the first time and just one the second time.

 

So yours seems to have more issues.

 

Except for the 2 acute attacks he has no other pains or issues at all.

 

THey did a blood test for CF-

the ped reccomended the sweat test, but I think we will wait for the sweat test. The ped really doubts CF, he is 15 and a competative swimmer and a healthy size so he says totally not the profile for CF.

Edited September 20, 2010 by ZooRho

[Quad Shot Academy]

THey did a blood test for CF-

the ped reccomended the sweat test, but I think we will wait for the sweat test. The ped really doubts CF, he is 15 and a competative swimmer and a healthy size so he says totally not the profile for CF.

 

If he continues to have problems, I would test. There is nothing to the test and it is very inexpensive compared to the other tests he has had run. They used to believe that CF was always fatal at a young age, but since then they have been discovering full grown men that have never had health problems but see a doctor because they are infertile. They are found to be missing the vas deferens and then diagnosed with CF. There would at least be preventative treatment for his pancreas and liver if he were diagnosed with it, verses going a couple more decades w/o being diagnosed. Of course I hope it is not CF! I know how scary these drawn out medical things are. :grouphug:

[ZooRho]

Yeah, I may take him back to the ped for a check up before the end of the year and see what he wanted to do he had suggestted it. Although I really wished they had just done it while we were in the hospital.

 

 

Part of me feels like we are just waiting for it to come back. like a time bomb sort of.

 

If he continues to have problems, I would test. There is nothing to the test and it is very inexpensive compared to the other tests he has had run. They used to believe that CF was always fatal at a young age, but since then they have been discovering full grown men that have never had health problems but see a doctor because they are infertile. They are found to be missing the vas deferens and then diagnosed with CF. There would at least be preventative treatment for his pancreas and liver if he were diagnosed with it, verses going a couple more decades w/o being diagnosed. Of course I hope it is not CF! I know how scary these drawn out medical things are. :grouphug:

[ZooRho]

GOD Is good.

 

the Bible study lesson had a great theme about being disgruntled about your situation. SO I think HE spoke big to swimmer boy.

 

So hopefully tomorrow will go better than expected

[Negin]

I have been meaning to post, not that I know much about this specific condition - but two things came to mind. BTW, the posts here are great. Wonderful recommendations.

1. When it comes to the pancreatic problems, sugar intake is a major culprit. Refined sugar is really bad for the pancreas, as well as for pretty much anything.

2. When any condition ends in “itis” it means that inflammation is present.

Inflammation is Aggravated by:

• Traditional Western diet

• Refined sugars and white flours

• Red meat from industrially raised animals

• Oils rich in omega-6 – corn, sunflower, safflower, soy

• Dairy products from industrially raised livestock (especially if full fat)

• Eggs from industrially raised hens fed corn and soybeans

• Persistent anger or despair

• Less than 20 minutes of physical activity per day

• Cigarette smoke, atmospheric pollution, domestic pollutants

 

Inflammation is Reduced by:

• Mediterranean diet, Indian and Asian cuisines

• Multigrain flour

• At most 3 times a week – organic meat from animals fed grass or flax meal

• Olive oil, flaxseed oil, canola oil

• Fatty fish rich in omega-3

• Dairy products from animals fed on grass or flax meal

• Omega-3 eggs or eggs from hens raised in a natural environment or fed flax meal

• Laughter, lightheartedness, serenity

• A 50-minute walk 3 times a week, or 60 minutes 6 times a week

• Clean environment

 

EAT MORE

Olive oil

Rapeseed oil

Oily fish twice a week (sardines, anchovies, mackerel, wild Alaskan salmon or small fish from cold waters – not farmed fish)

Omega-3 eggs (free-range)

Nuts

Lambs’-ear salad

Green vegetables

Linseed or flaxseed oil

Flax seeds

Chia Seeds

Ginger

Fresh fruits and veggies – make sure you’re getting some of every color

Turmeric is the most powerful natural anti-inflammatory

Omega-9 fats – olive oil, avocados, macadamia nuts

Black cumin seeds - Has an anti-inflammatory

Black cumin seeds and oil are used in traditional medicine by many Middle Eastern and Asian healers for a broad array of diseases, including some immune and inflammatory disorders - especially pancreatic problems.

Try sauteing fresh spinach with ginger, hot chili, and a teaspoon of black cumin seeds, sprinkle it on fish before baking or broiling, or add a spoonful to lentils as you're cooking them. Find black cumin seeds online at Zamouri Spices.

Sprinkle liberally on broiled salmon filets

Also make a tasty addition to breadcrumb toppings for sauteed chicken breasts or fish

 

SUPPLEMENTS

Vitamin C – if you have inflammation, without a doubt you need more vitamin C. Vitamin C and the flavonoids it contains are important anti-inflammatory agents. They destroy damaging free radicals as well as reduce inflammation. Be sure you get at least 500 mg of Vitamin C with bioflavonoids each day. Buffered, or Ester C, is less likely to cause loose stools or stomach irritation.

Omega-3 supplements (roughly 1g or 0.03 oz of the EPA-DHA combination – Carlson’s Fish Oil (has a teen version also that my dc take) – for a more severe condition, take up to 3 grams daily and wait at least 8-12 weeks to see if you notice a difference.) If you have chronic inflammation, you’ll want to be taking around 3 grams a day. Get a good brand – like Carlson’s. The cheaper ones may contain mercury or pesticide residues. Only buy fish oil supplements guaranteed to be free from contaminants.

 

Probiotics help fight inflammation and bacteria in the gut

Any probiotic you take should contain at least 1-5 billion colony-forming units (CFUs).

Nature’s Way Primadoophilus Optima delivers more than 35-billion CFUs.

Dr. Ohhira’s Probiotics 12 PLUS

Culturelle

Nature’s Way Probifia Pearls

Enzymatic Therapy Acidophilus Pearls

Jarrow

 

LIMIT

Reduce dietary sources of inflammation-promoting omega-6s:

Red meat, especially if it is produced by industrial farming techniques and if it does not carry an “omega-3” label

Dairy products

Eggs not marked “omega-3”

Omega-6 fats - Sunflower oil, Corn oil, Safflower oil, Soybean oil, Peanut Oil

Sugar

Processed and fast foods

Eating vegetables cooked at high heat without water (think roasting, grilling, or frying) can cause inflammation, increasing the rate of aging in the body. Steam your veggies instead!

Free Radicals – fried, barbecued, charbroiled foods, coffee, alcohol, pesticides, solvents used in cleaning supplies, UV radiation

[ZooRho]

Negin

thanks for the detailed information.

 

I have done some searching for information.

 

Where did you find that sugar is also a concern. I have not seen that in anything I have searched. But you aren't the first person to say that. I just can't find information about that specifically. Not that I doubt, I'm just looking for the information, well cause you all are imaginary after all and I need facts for him.

 

Interesting about the grilled things cause this is my child who will grill rather than cook on the stove.

 

What is interesting so much other stuff doesn't fit him. Yeah he is a typical boy and does eat fast food and fried. But honestly I know it isn't atypical american diet. We eat at Subway more than other fast food when we do eat out for that.

 

He is a competative athlete working out 6 days a week 3 hours at a time. No smoking in the house and not a high polution place.

 

he drinks way more water than I ever did as a child.

 

He is my stress free kid, with a ready laugh.

I'll be copying this stuff as we try to get him in a good place with his eating.

[Negin]

Negin

thanks for the detailed information.

I have done some searching for information.

Where did you find that sugar is also a concern. I have not seen that in anything I have searched. But you aren't the first person to say that. I just can't find information about that specifically. Not that I doubt, I'm just looking for the information, well cause you all are imaginary after all and I need facts for him.

Interesting about the grilled things cause this is my child who will grill rather than cook on the stove.

What is interesting so much other stuff doesn't fit him. Yeah he is a typical boy and does eat fast food and fried. But honestly I know it isn't atypical american diet. We eat at Subway more than other fast food when we do eat out for that.

He is a competative athlete working out 6 days a week 3 hours at a time. No smoking in the house and not a high polution place.

he drinks way more water than I ever did as a child.

He is my stress free kid, with a ready laugh.

I'll be copying this stuff as we try to get him in a good place with his eating.

 

http://www.best-home-remedies.com/digestive_system/pancreatitis.htm

 

I have read time and time again, that anything to do with the pancreas is related to refined sugar. Can't find all the sources. But it makes sense, when we look at the pancreas and its function. Plus, any kind of inflammation, which this is, is definitely related to sugar, particularly refined sugar.

 

http://www.ehow.com/about_5379823_pancreatitis-food-diet.html

 

Will get back to you later. Need to run.

[OrganicAnn]

The pancreas makes insulin so that may be an issue with some people (the pp taked about sugar), but from what I've read and heard (my DH and my MIL both have pancreatitis) it is the fat. Also my DH finds that if he eats smaller meals it really helps him. Sometimes when he is under stress it is better that he does not eat at all for a while. He was telling me just recently that if he exerts a lot of energy like doing heavy work outside, that he is better off not eating.

 

So I don't know how you DS will manage to get enough food unless he eats little meals all the time. Also the more attacks the more damage it can do, causing blockage and damage to the pancreas that can lead to diabetes and / or surgery.

 

Also alcohol is very bad for the pancreas, so even though your son is young he should be told about how alcohol will adversely affect him.

[ZooRho]

THanks, I do know we will have to help him eat smaller meals. After todays apptment OH MY, he may have to eat all the time to get enough calories in his body.

 

I'll try to remember about the stress, as I have said this child feels NO STRESS, nothing really ruffles his feathers. and after his oldest brother I needed a child like him.

 

We do understand about the more attacks more damage which is whay we are being so proactive about helping him prevent a reoccurance.

 

and we have definately talked to him about alcohol.

 

 

SO can I cook with wine? I don't do it often but thought of it today.

 

 

 

The pancreas makes insulin so that may be an issue with some people (the pp taked about sugar), but from what I've read and heard (my DH and my MIL both have pancreatitis) it is the fat. Also my DH finds that if he eats smaller meals it really helps him. Sometimes when he is under stress it is better that he does not eat at all for a while. He was telling me just recently that if he exerts a lot of energy like doing heavy work outside, that he is better off not eating.

 

So I don't know how you DS will manage to get enough food unless he eats little meals all the time. Also the more attacks the more damage it can do, causing blockage and damage to the pancreas that can lead to diabetes and / or surgery.

 

Also alcohol is very bad for the pancreas, so even though your son is young he should be told about how alcohol will adversely affect him.

[ZooRho]

thanks guys for all the advice.

 

I did appreciate the appt today. I hope it helped ds to also see how to not feel so deprived, and how he can adjust his food to eat something that he is craving.

 

and really right now I knew he wasn't getting enough calories to sustain himself.

 

It uis a wonder that he is even functioning. with what he was eating.

 

So now we have a better idea of how much he really needs.

 

I'm going to make a seperate update on this.

 

AGAIN WOW I appreciate all the help, links, and advice you have shared. We will take what is here and see what helps/makes a difference for swimmer boy.

[OrganicAnn]

You can cook with wine. The alcohol cooks out. A little alcohol won't hurt (like in vanilla).

 

My DH likes to have a couple of beers on the weekend. The doctor told him it was okay, but he decided not to risk it. He buys the better quality non-alcoholic beers sometimes.

 

A lot of pancretitis is found in people who are alcoholics.

[ZooRho]

You can cook with wine. The alcohol cooks out. A little alcohol won't hurt (like in vanilla).

 

My DH likes to have a couple of beers on the weekend. The doctor told him it was okay, but he decided not to risk it. He buys the better quality non-alcoholic beers sometimes.

 

A lot of pancretitis is found in people who are alcoholics.

Thanks that is what I thought I just wanted to make sure.

 

Yes and I read too that for young teens/adults a bing drinking can cause pancreatitis-it doesn't have to be after long term use. THought that was interesting. I read it and then saw a story on Dr G medical examiner.

[Negin]

Since this is an inflammatory condition - and, btw, inflammation is very common (due to the Standard American Diet as well as other things) - these should be of some help:

 

The Inflammation Syndrome by Jack Challem

Stopping Inflammation by Nancy Appleton

[ZooRho]

Since this is an inflammatory condition - and, btw, inflammation is very common (due to the Standard American Diet as well as other things) - these should be of some help:

 

The Inflammation Syndrome by Jack Challem

Stopping Inflammation by Nancy Appleton

 

Thanks I'll check into them.

 

the thing is he has acute attacks, he has no other pains/issues or anything else except duirng the attack.

 

I do realize not everyone will agree with regular dieticians but I did talk to the lady about sugars and she was not concerned about that espeically for him. because he is an athlete it is getting converted fairly quickly.

 

We still are not huge on sweets at the house. I realize other things have sugar too though. I don't buy sodas for the boys- they do drink them occasionaly when out, I don't bake many sweets-cause if they are here I EAT THEM ALL.

[Jean in Newcastle]

May I jump in here to say as OrganicAnn and I have said before - for acute pancreatitis it is really about the fat and not the sugar. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/chronicpancreatitis.htm

 

Yes, there is inflammation. It is inflammation that is caused by digestive enzymes leaking into the pancreas. (see above link).

 

Ok - this is weird to quote myself but I'm doing it in order to refer to the same link I provided above. One of the pancreas' jobs is to provide digestive enzymes to deal with fats but it isn't just for fats - its for protein and carbohydrates too. So if you have too much of any one of those at a meal then you can have problems. From what I understand, fats is a bigger problem usually but that doesn't mean that you can ignore the others totally.

 

RE. eating enough (this is referring to your other thread) but not too much. If he ate 500 calories 6 times a day (let's say at 7 am, 10 am, 12:30 pm, 3 pm, 6 pm, 8 pm) that would give him 3000 calories a day. He could eat more at some of those meals - say the 7, 12:30 and 6 pm one - so up those to 700 calories - that would give him 3600 calories a day - still short of what his coaches say but closer to your target. I'm assuming that when you've referred to huge meals it goes over 1000 calories - maybe even closer to 2000 calories for the one meal (this isn't so far fetched since a meal at McDonalds can easily go over 1000 calories).

Edited September 22, 2010 by Jean in Newcastle

[mom31257]

I've only personally know one person who has had it. He was fine as long as he didn't eat any meat anymore. He couldn't even have things cooked where meat had been cooked.

[ZooRho]

I've only personally know one person who has had it. He was fine as long as he didn't eat any meat anymore. He couldn't even have things cooked where meat had been cooked.

interesting.

 

well ds doesn't have that problem.

 

I think he would lose it if that happened to him.

[ZooRho]

May I jump in here to say as OrganicAnn and I have said before - for acute pancreatitis it is really about the fat and not the sugar. http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/facts/chronicpancreatitis.htm

 

Yes, there is inflammation. It is inflammation that is caused by digestive enzymes leaking into the pancreas. (see above link).

 

Ok - this is weird to quote myself but I'm doing it in order to refer to the same link I provided above. One of the pancreas' jobs is to provide digestive enzymes to deal with fats but it isn't just for fats - its for protein and carbohydrates too. So if you have too much of any one of those at a meal then you can have problems. From what I understand, fats is a bigger problem usually but that doesn't mean that you can ignore the others totally.

 

RE. eating enough (this is referring to your other thread) but not too much. If he ate 500 calories 6 times a day (let's say at 7 am, 10 am, 12:30 pm, 3 pm, 6 pm, 8 pm) that would give him 3000 calories a day. He could eat more at some of those meals - say the 7, 12:30 and 6 pm one - so up those to 700 calories - that would give him 3600 calories a day - still short of what his coaches say but closer to your target. I'm assuming that when you've referred to huge meals it goes over 1000 calories - maybe even closer to 2000 calories for the one meal (this isn't so far fetched since a meal at McDonalds can easily go over 1000 calories).

Thanks for the added info.

 

yeah I've been working on things today. AT the moment we are in a discussion about that he could really like fat free cream cheese on his bagel. The bagel would be good cause it is 300 cals and the ff cc would even boost that up before swimming.

 

He has had about half his fats for the day. and we are at 1850 right now.

 

so not too bad. I am hoping to get more cals after swimming too.

 

YEAH I won the bagel war

[ZooRho]

Whew this will be tiring to figure it all out.

 

I did go to a health food store and look at the powderd protien. BUT I did get him to 4,000 cals today without going over his fat counts

 

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

final numbers

 

CAls

4023

 

Fat grams

37.6

[Jean in Newcastle]

You can do it! :hurray::hurray::hurray: I think it will get easier as you start to find some favorite meals, snacks etc. that fit his needs.

[OrganicAnn]

After you get the numbers organized and some strategies for meals/recipes, make sure that you let him to take over the management of his diet. He'll need to be responsible for his own healthy eating for the rest of his life and needs to learn to be responsible for his health.

[ZooRho]

You can do it! :hurray::hurray::hurray: I think it will get easier as you start to find some favorite meals, snacks etc. that fit his needs.

YEAH thanks.

 

yes we do think it will get easier as the time goes along.

[ZooRho]

After you get the numbers organized and some strategies for meals/recipes, make sure that you let him to take over the management of his diet. He'll need to be responsible for his own healthy eating for the rest of his life and needs to learn to be responsible for his health.

Trust me I will.

 

I am making him work on a nutrirtion program this semester.

 

Now that we have a game plan and understand some specifics I'll be able to guide him more.

 

I did more today because I was playing with some online places to keep track of the calories and fat.

 

I think those will help on the short term too

[ZooRho]

we got it done again today 4,000+

 

and he swam longer than he had in a long time

 

wow I can't imagine how he'll feel in a month after getting enough nutrition into himself.

[Jean in Newcastle]

That's wonderful, Zoo! I'm glad that the diet is making him feel and do well.

[Negin]

Been thinking of you all a lot and glad to know that things are improving. :grouphug:

[ZooRho]

Been thinking of you all a lot and glad to know that things are improving. :grouphug:

Thanks, I'm going to start a new thread about today.

 

this will not be easy.