Another desperate CW (-Homer) thread...

[sahm99]

I wanted to start CW-Aesop with ds two years ago, ordered all the books...and then ended up too intimidated, and went with WT instead...:lol:

 

Now, fast forward two years, after having worked through the CW-Primer with dd8 (and loved it!) and with ds entering 5th grade, I was determined to tackle Homer with Poetry ( and Aesop for dd).

 

The books arrived a couple of days ago...and I am scared:tongue_smilie:!!!

I have only glanced over the pile of boks, but already feel like I need a degree in Classical Writing to teach this!

 

So, please, tell me from where to start. Should I read the whole Homer Core-Book over the next week (not that I would have a problem spending 30 hours on this:lol:)? Do I need to read through ALL of the three books (Core, Teacher, Student) for both programs - Homer and Aesop???

 

But, most importantly, please, tell me that teaching Homer and Aesop the same year is do-able (for a CW-newbie)...even if I have the intention of squeezing in some math here and there...:D

 

THANKS!

[Mallory]

Start with the student books. I've only done OB, but it says to read all the intros before you start, then each week tells you what to read that week. I was fine waiting to read the lessons as I planned every two weeks. I think it works best if you use the student book and core to prepare, the IG only has pages that are exactly the same as in the SB and a few answers.

 

While Homer can be time consuming, with the student books for each level, I don't think that adding Aesop would be any more work than doing WT.

[HollyDay]

I somehow managed to get through CW Aesop and Homer before calling it quits. The best advice I received was to go through the Core and write down each day what I was supposed to do. So, I had a notebook page that had Day 1: do the following. Day 2: do the following and so on. It took about 2 hours one afternoon to get this done. I did not read the "big picture" material. I'm not a global thinker when it comes to curriculum. By the way, I had this problem with SWR. Again, when it comes to curriculum, I want "just the facts mam". But, making that layout gave me what I wanted and make the program doable. Through Homer anyway........

[prairiegirl]

When I received Homer, I sat down and read all that I needed for Homer A from the Core. This helped me get the big picture and it calmed down my nerves. From reading it all, I was able to see that this was doable. I use the workbooks and this lists what you need to do every day. Just follow the list. When we start a new skill level, I re-read the section over in the Core book again. Homer is a huge learning curve but it is doable.

 

. I am doing Homer and Aesop at one time but I have already done Aesop before so we are not totally in the same boat.

 

Just take a deep breath and start reading the Core. You can do this!

[momee]

I am much more confident now after having sat down for a while and read everything it tells me to read in the student workbook pages (the grey boxes tell you exactly what to read as well as the teacher's notes at the bottom)

 

Are you trying to do Aesop and Homer in one year? Then you're using the Student workbook and IG for Older Beginners right?

 

Just clarifying what you're using before I offer more help.

[SilverMoon]

Totally doable. I had two in different places in CW for about half of last school year. :)

 

I'd start with the student workbook. Once you get a feel for that, compare it to the instructor guide. Dig into the cores when you see the page numbers referenced in the IG. The core first may seem overwhelming, as it's written to teach you how to do CW with just the core. The student workbook does a lot of the grunt work for you. :)

 

When you've got a grip on how those books relate to each other, map out what you want a week to look like and jump in. A search here will probably get you a few sample schedules from other users. Tweak the weekly pattern/schedule until it suits you and your kids. You'll be spending some extra time with them at first, as they learn what the curriculum expects of them. Once my kids fell into a comfortable rhythm with CW it became open and go. Our weekly pattern from last year looked something like this.

Day 1: Read story, discuss, kid narrates, kid does outline (Aesop) or other analysis tool (Homer)

Day 2: A&I day, they found suitable synonyms for the spelling words (skipped spelling analysis), I scratched out the redundant grammar review, they did the rest of the grammar exercises and all the rewriting exercises

Day 3: Rough draft

Day 4: Finish rough draft, or edit if it's already done (I don't allow editing on the same day the rough draft is finished)

Day 5: Edit if needed, type up final draft

 

I'd keep your core reading at least a couple/few lessons ahead of where they are if you decide not to read the whole thing now, so you know where you're going.

[siloam]

If you have done WT you don't really need to do Aesop. They cover the same skills. Just go straight into Homer.

 

Homer is a lot of repetitive, but not difficult work. The goal, IMO, is for the child to be able to use these skills automatically, they have done them so much. They use terms for grammar that sound intimidating and are different from what I am used to, but once you look at what is being done it is usually pretty easy.

 

The most difficult thing IMO is keeping up with what is changing when. In other words when you have a new skill you need to teach. There is so much change in the program that if you miss a skill one week, then the next week you are behind as well because now they have introduced a new way to use that skill. You can get behind and have to play catch up a lot of a lot. To help keep that from happening I went in and made a spreadsheet of when the skills change and what pages you need to read out of the core book to cover the new skill. E-mail me and I will get it to you.

 

If you decide to read through the core, I would advice you don't go straight through. It gets to confusing because something that is covered in Day 1 Skill level 2 lesson 3 becomes Day 2 Sill Level 2 Lesson 5 becomes Day 3 Skill Level 3 Lesson 1 becomes Skill level 3 Lesson 3. The same skill is covered repeatedly for each day. This is because Homer will introduce a skill for words, then next week you cover it in sentences then the week after you cover it in paragraphs. Lots of movement and change in Homer. You will be re-reading the same basic content and get really confused about what to do when (or I did). It is much better to open up the student book and read the indicated core pages, so you can "see" what the student is doing while you read, and only read what you need to do that section. Though honestly I quit pre-reading the core at all. Now I just read it out loud to my dd when a new skill is introduce, we discuss what she needs to do, set expectations so to speak. I don't pre-read and I don't teach, we learn together.

 

We don't find it over difficult to do Homer and Poetry. The A level is actually pretty easy, and I alternated it with Homer to give my dd a break. Because there are 20 weeks of Homer and 12 weeks of Poetry I just waited till after week 8 to start the Poetry. We did that again with level B, so this week she is dong Poetry B week 3 and the week after next week she will do Homer B week 11. But we also hs year around, so she gets regular breaks.

 

Heather

Edited August 24, 2010 by siloam

[Kathie in VA]

Okay so you are looking to do Aesop with dd and Homer with ds? Yes this is doable. Aesop is easy on you, especially with the workbooks.

 

First understand the Aesop level. Basically you are teaching introductory grammar concepts and terms, simple spelling analysis, short oral reading skills, short oral retelling skills, and finally re-writing of narratives. The basic daily pattern really helps. Here's the key: let the workbook do the leading. It tells you daily what to read from the core and what to work on. If you read ahead you'll notice that the writing projects don't change too much. They are all a re-write of the model; they mainly just differ on the grammar focus and length.

 

Now chill, Homer really isn't any different. There is still a basic daily pattern which is similar to Aesop! What you are teaching is still similar to Aesop but just more advanced: grammar concepts and terms, more spelling analysis, oral reading skills, oral retelling skills, and re-writing the narratives. Sound familiar? Most folks get nervous because the grammar is more advanced, but remember the book is teaching it all to a 5th grader. Yes you can learn it. Just because you don't know it when you see it at first doesn't mean you can't learn it. It just means you now get the perspective of your kid! Read it, try it, use the answer key to confirm. Use the CW message boards for questions ... everyone else does ... it really helps. I often had the kids do the work together, aloud. We all discussed it and learned it together. Then later they would get to do some of the reviews on their own. My goal was for them to learn it, working on their own with it came later when we all realized we didn't need to do the work together (when it's faster for them on their own, you're on the right track). Many of the Harvey's grammar work we just did orally to save time. The optional readings we tried to do aloud together .. or some we skipped to save time. Later in Homer the writing projects get more interesting as you don't just re-write but get to make changes to the model and write something slightly different or in a different order. Not something to fear, something to look forward to as a break from the same old writing project.

 

Hope this helps some.

--Kathie in VA

[sahm99]

Thank you for your responses!!!

 

...after starting my thread I spent some more time looking over the Homer-books to depress myself further:tongue_smilie:.

I am almost ready to shelve them and wait another two years before tackling CW (with Older Beginners then...).

My initial intention was to do Homer with ds10 and Aesop with dd8 this fall...

Now I am seriously considering putting CW on hold and then "catch-up" with the OB (at least I would have the time to prepare:D)...

 

Actually, the whole topic of LA is like a can of worms for me: I plan on doing FLL3&WWE3 with dd8 (and have ds listen in) and also add R&S (orally)...

Now I am not sure about anything anymore...

 

Oh, gosh, I thought I was DONE planning:tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie:!!!

[dmrranch]

Thank you for your responses!!!

 

...after starting my thread I spent some more time looking over the Homer-books to depress myself further:tongue_smilie:.

I am almost ready to shelve them and wait another two years before tackling CW (with Older Beginners then...).

My initial intention was to do Homer with ds10 and Aesop with dd8 this fall...

Now I am seriously considering putting CW on hold and then "catch-up" with the OB (at least I would have the time to prepare:D)...

 

Actually, the whole topic of LA is like a can of worms for me: I plan on doing FLL3&WWE3 with dd8 (and have ds listen in) and also add R&S (orally)...

Now I am not sure about anything anymore...

 

Oh, gosh, I thought I was DONE planning:tongue_smilie::tongue_smilie:!!!

 

I want you to know I totally feel your pain!!:grouphug: I am also deciding how CW is going to look for my family. I have received some great advice in a thread I posted, "For those using classical writing" (or something like that)

 

Now, before I give you my advice, I want you to know this does not come from personal experience but what I have read and from listening to SWB lectures.

 

First, SWB recommends that if you are going to use CW use Aesop a & b for 5th grade and then Homer for 6th. This is a slower progression than what CW recommends but I noticed you have been using FLL and WWE. So...fwiw, why not use Aesop A for your 10 yr old and keep the 8 yr old on the FLL/WWE track for this year? That will give you a chance to get used to CW and you are technically not getting behind. If you follow this track, you will do Aesop 5th, Homer 6th, and Diogenes 7th, which will put you right on track. The only difference is you are waiting a little longer and then moving faster than CW would. (Anyone may feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here).

 

One thing I wanted to mention...I noticed in your tag you have FLL and R&S both mentioned. Are you making sure you aren't doubling up there? If you picked one or the other it would lighten your load. (I know it is hard to pick...you should read my threads) :D

[sahm99]

Thank you Deborah!

...yes, as you suggested, I am contemplating starting CW a bit later...

I am no so sure, though, that I feel comfortable doing no proper writing curriculum with ds until then...

The writing assignments in R&S don't impress me (the grammar does!!) and the WWE is mostly for dd8 - but given that it's going on, I'll make it worth it and ask ds to listen in:lol:...

And, what makes it worse,...I would so like to like CW:tongue_smilie:!!

I am sure it is a great curriculum and that ds would profit a lot!

[siloam]

First, SWB recommends that if you are going to use CW use Aesop a & b for 5th grade and then Homer for 6th. This is a slower progression than what CW recommends but I noticed you have been using FLL and WWE. So...fwiw, why not use Aesop A for your 10 yr old and keep the 8 yr old on the FLL/WWE track for this year? That will give you a chance to get used to CW and you are technically not getting behind. If you follow this track, you will do Aesop 5th, Homer 6th, and Diogenes 7th, which will put you right on track. The only difference is you are waiting a little longer and then moving faster than CW would. (Anyone may feel free to correct me if I'm wrong here).

 

One thing I wanted to mention...I noticed in your tag you have FLL and R&S both mentioned. Are you making sure you aren't doubling up there? If you picked one or the other it would lighten your load. (I know it is hard to pick...you should read my threads) :D

 

The only problem with that recommendation is if you want to use the pre-packaged student texts vs. creating your own thing based on the philosophy. Aesop in a year is not a problem, but Homer is a 2 year program. There is older beginners, but that is not recommended unless a child is at least 7th grade and it does both Aesop and Homer in a year. If you are picking your own models and setting your own pace then, of course the sky is the limit, so to speak.

 

I think another factor is her oldest has done Writing Tales which covers the same material as CW Aesop.

 

On the grammar I think it was R&S for the oldest and FLL for the younger.

 

My personal felling is hsing has only gotten harder as I go, not easier, so I wouldn't assume it would be easier to learn two years from now. I would rather learn it now and own it. Once you have done it once your learning curve is 0, so the next child is easy peasy. Or I would cut bait and find something that will work long term. Sitting on it for 2 years isn't going to make it easier, unless you have extraordinary circumstances, like your expecting another child. Then waiting would make sense.

 

Heather

 

[dmrranch]

Thank you Deborah!

...yes, as you suggested, I am contemplating starting CW a bit later...

I am no so sure, though, that I feel comfortable doing no proper writing curriculum with ds until then...

The writing assignments in R&S don't impress me (the grammar does!!) and the WWE is mostly for dd8 - but given that it's going on, I'll make it worth it and ask ds to listen in:lol:...

And, what makes it worse,...I would so like to like CW:tongue_smilie:!!

I am sure it is a great curriculum and that ds would profit a lot!

 

Does it excite YOU when you think about how CW covers writing?? When you read all the posts that talk about how "hard" it is to implement, do you just become worried you can't do it??? If that is the case, then find a way to go for it!!!! Move pass the fear:001_smile: Once you start working on it, piece by piece, like the ladies suggested above, it will all come together for you. That's my very humble opinion. I am personally very excited about this program! However, if I look at the whole entire program I get a little overwhelmed.

 

The only problem with that recommendation is if you want to use the pre-packaged student texts vs. creating your own thing based on the philosophy. Aesop in a year is not a problem, but Homer is a 2 year program. There is older beginners, but that is not recommended unless a child is at least 7th grade and it does both Aesop and Homer in a year. If you are picking your own models and setting your own pace then, of course the sky is the limit, so to speak.

 

Thank you for chiming in, Heather!! I definitely do not want to mislead her. I wonder how SWB thought you would do Homer in a year?? :confused:

 

I think another factor is her oldest has done Writing Tales which covers the same material as CW Aesop.

 

On the grammar I think it was R&S for the oldest and FLL for the younger.

 

Actually, in her sig line for the 10 yr old she has both FLL and R&S 5 listed. I think she said he would listen in on younger??

 

My personal felling is hsing has only gotten harder as I go, not easier, so I wouldn't assume it would be easier to learn two years from now. I would rather learn it now and own it. Once you have done it once your learning curve is 0, so the next child is easy peasy. Or I would cut bait and find something that will work long term. Sitting on it for 2 years isn't going to make it easier, unless you have extraordinary circumstances, like your expecting another child. Then waiting would make sense.

 

Heather

 

 

 

Would she be able to move slower with Homer if she needed to? Would that be easier than going faster at an older age? In other words, if she has to move a little slower now as she figures Homer out and gets the hang of it...no problem because she at least is getting started???

 

Hey, when I contacted Cw about my children, they actually suggested starting my 10 dd with Aesop 1B. Heather, would that be redundant since she has done Writing Tales?

 

 

 

(Maybe I should be quiet...If nothing else girl, know that I am here to cheer you on and encourage you...IF CW is something you really want but just are afraid you can't do it :auto: Go for it!)

Edited August 25, 2010 by dmrranch
left out a few words

[siloam]

 

Would she be able to move slower with Homer if she needed to? Would that be easier than going faster at an older age? In other words, if she has to move a little slower now as she figures Homer out and gets the hang of it...no problem because she at least is getting started???

Yes. In fact I am one of the few doing Beginning Poetry because most people just plan to do each homer week over two weeks. That gives them 40 weeks of work, so they have 4 weeks to "make up" from a traditional 36 week year. I would guess the first few weeks could be done at a normal schedule because they are lighter. Then you just are left with a few weeks to catch up. Maybe some people just drop the last week. I think it is usually review with noting new being introduced.

 

Also my oldest is 7th finishing Homer, and my 2nd dd 8 is 5th doing Aesop. They aren't at ideal ages either. They will probably catch up in time when they are working independently in Diogenes, because we get in more weeks per year of independent work than work they have to do one on one with me. This year I will get in 31 weeks where I work one on one with the kids, and 38 week of independent work.

 

Hey, when I contacted Cw about my children, they actually suggested starting with Aesop 1B. Heather, would that be redundant since she has done Writing Tales?

 

Oh Elizabeth would be the best one to ask that question, as she has both. I am confident saying that both WT 1 & 2 cover all of CW Aesop, because so many people who have used WT 1 & 2 have gone straight to Homer. But if she has only done WT 1...well that gets a little gray. Honestly the skills at that level aren't that hard. You could go either way with it. It would be easier on the child to then start with Aesop B, but if they are a child who rises to the occasion then they could also probably go straight to Homer A.

My kids would need the Aesop.

(Maybe I should be quiet...If nothing else girl, know that I am here to cheer you on and encourage you...IF CW is something you really want but just are afraid you can't do it :auto: Go for it!)

 

Naw, it is good to have many ideas out there and talk about them. I personally like the idea of it, but practically I would not want to pull together my own thing or trim down what is there now to fit 1 year. Maybe someone will see it and come up with a better idea. Like maybe doing Older Beginners at half pace over two years?

 

I really love the results I have seen in my kids. I personally need the concrete aspects of the program, and three of my kids are extremely concrete like I am. Only my oldest does abstract. ;) But there are times when it is a little much in Homer. Aesop I didn't feel that way about and I hear Diogenes isn't this way (and in peeking at it I agree). By the time you have read about how to do something in words, sentences and paragraphs you are skimming half the core book. "ya, ya, got that last time" I think you need a certain amount of filtering ability to do Homer well. For example I didn't get the last step of the Six Sentence Shuffle, I don't like it because it seems like too much busy work with everything else going on. I just have my dd skip it. :blink: I only have so much time to correct and discuss scene divisions and accidental/essential details, so once I was sure my dd got the general idea I started having her correct her own work from the TM. I think it is just too easy to get caught up on the details because it IS hard to see the whole in Homer to know how important something is. So much of the scene/acts essential and accidental detail can also be subjective, and the authors state that. It would be easy to get caught up in little details like this and get stuck on it. Maybe I am wrong. The actually work isn't difficult, but there is just a lot of it, and like I said a lot of change each week, so you never completely feel like you have found your groove, even through you know the general routine.

 

Heather

[Mallory]

I agree that you can slow things down from the CW schedule and still be okay.

 

My oldest did OB in 9th and is doing Diogenes Maxim in 10th. Sure I wish it had been a little earlier but she is still learning so much.

 

My next is in 5th and doing WT 2. I think he will probably move onto Homer A in 6th and Homer B in 7th and not get to Diogenes until 8th. And I really feel like that is early enough.

 

Homer A and B are both scheduled for 20 weeks so you could do both in a 40 week year. But then you wouldn't be able to fit in Poetry which we have loved so far!

[momee]

I am doing CW Aesop A for a review of grammar things before we move on to CW Aesop B. I thought my girl could just do B but she doesn't know the 8 parts of speech by heart, nor can she give the answers on the flash cards so I figure we'll just go with A and plan to move faster.

I think you can do Aesop with your 10 yo and not be too far behind. That's just my opinion and I'm no expert. Just a mom trying to use CW, lol. You could keep your younger doing what you were before until you're an Aesop pro with the older, lol.

 

Having my 7th grader doing Older Beginners I see that it is possible to move through Aesop very very quickly if those grammar terms are concrete (because OB has you do just that). It moves fast though and I can see the whole program of CW being harder once were into Homer. I'm trying to say the extra time in Aesop may be very beneficial for your 10 y.o. Just a thought.

 

You can move a tad bit quicker through Aesop than the schedule if your 10 yo has a good grasp of grammar. If not, what's the loss? Look at this year as review. She's young enough and has plenty of time. She will need those basics down to succeed anyway in the higher levels of CW, kwim? If you want to move faster, you'll see clearly what is skippable and what isn't once you're doing it. If you skip something, just go to the next step.

 

I can help you if you want to do Aesop from the first lesson. We just went through it so I can pm you what to do exactly each week if you want.

 

Do you have the IG and Student Workbooks for Aesop? There is NO WAY I would attempt CW without those two resources.

 

Let me know if you want me to walk you through the first couple weeks of Aesop. It's easy once you get started. It's the jumping off the cliff that looks scary. It's really not so bad~

HTH.

 

ps I told the author of CW I was considering doing a blog simply about the steps of starting CW Aesop. It looks so hard at first. She was all for it. I just don't think I have the time to do it but it sure sounds like a need :)

Edited August 31, 2010 by momee

[momto2blessings]

We're starting Homer in Dec. or Jan. I'm a bit nervous, but I think it will be doable. I just did the online seminar that Kathy Weitz led, and though I haven't even really started to prepare, a couple things she said that stuck with me to make things easier:

 

1) When she teaches, she skips Skill Levels and Writing Projects 8, 9 and 10. These were written when they didn't know if there would be a level after Homer. These aren't until Homer B, but helps me to know that if I take things a little slower I can skip something later:)

 

2) She said if you need to skip Writing Projects, skip later ones (similar) to give kids a break----2 to 3 Writing Projects at each level is good.

 

3) She said you can do Analysis and Imitation one week and Writing Project the next (instead of all in one week). Can skip 1-2 Writing Projects and still complete in a year. This is our plan. I know poetry is highly rec., but for now I just don't want to get burned out. We do cover some poetry and poetry memorization with our Charlotte Mason studies.

 

I've heard her or someone on their boards say to not be a slave to the curriculum. I highly recommend their message boards. Every question I've asked has been promptly answered and helpful, and often by the author.

 

Best wishes. You can do this. This is the first curriculum that I have been nervous about being smart enough to figure out, but I'm so impressed by it that I want to give it a shot. If it stresses us out way too much, there are other curriculums and it's not the end of the world:) Blessings, Gina