These are the type of people who give Christians a bad name.

[Melinda in VT]

Look, for those of us who believe in theistic evolution, it took a long time just to become "human" at all. For God to call us Sons and Daughters. Clearly He has his own time frame for things.

 

"How can the gods meet us face to face till we have faces?" C.S. Lewis

 

Interesting way of looking at it. "Theistic evolution" is the closest descriptor of my belief, but I'd not considered its implications post-Genesis.

[Tea Time]

:confused:

 

I think you are confusing me with Wishbone Dawn. She wrote:

 

We've done more than our fair share of that sort of thing. As luck would have it much of Christianity these days seems to happen in fairly stable and wealthy nations so it shouldn't be a big surprise that we're not out burning and killing. But we've killed piles of people in the past. Enough that I don't think comparisons in the violence between Islam and Christianity point to anything more then the good fortune of many modern Christians to live where they do.

 

I am so sorry, Melinda. You are right. That is what I get for popping in and out and not paying enough attention. Please forgive me, and I will be more careful (but probably still goof) in the future. Hope you can still make some sense out of my comments. Thanks for clarifying the posts for me.

[Mejane]

No matter how loudly the mainstream shouts though, they won't get the attention. Perception in this country is driven by the media. The media is driven by ratings. They get better ratings by focusing on the crazy than on the normal.

 

Agreed. I'd love to see more things like the recent Comic-Con counter-demonstration against Phelps. That was crazy enough to garner some ratings.

[Laurie4b]

We've done more than our fair share of that sort of thing. As luck would have it much of Christianity these days seems to happen in fairly stable and wealthy nations so it shouldn't be a big surprise that we're not out burning and killing. But we've killed piles of people in the past. Enough that I don't think comparisons in the violence between Islam and Christianity point to anything more then the good fortune of many modern Christians to live where they do.

 

Currently, the fastest, most dynamic growth of Christianity is taking place in poor, developing nations. In contrast, Christianity is pretty much comatose in Europe, for instance. Churches in these developing nations are sending missionaries to plant churces in the US and Europe because they see the need of our wealthy selves for an infusion of the gospel. So I don't think that "stable/wealthy" dimension is the thing causing the reticience to burn and kill.

[Melinda in VT]

I am so sorry, Melinda. You are right. That is what I get for popping in and out and not paying enough attention. Please forgive me, and I will be more careful (but probably still goof) in the future. Hope you can still make some sense out of my comments. Thanks for clarifying the posts for me.

 

I know I've confused posters in the past. It's very easy to do. :)

[Lizzie in Ma]

Oh don't let's start this up again. Every bunch has got bad apples.

 

sigh

Truly I know many who call themselves Christian who give the term a bad name. It is just a thorn in my side because I work so hard to make my life a testimony of who I identify with so people will know Him by my love for them and my service for them.

It hurts when the term Christian becomes a derogatory epithet but I totally understand why it can be one.

[asta]

I did some research a while back in answer to the claim that religion is responsible for most of the atrocities committed against humanity. I fully expected to find numbers that concur with that common opinion. However, what I found surprised me. These are two sites I found this morning with stats; I'd have to dig out the sources I found on my own (I think I posted them on my website several months ago).

 

Bottom line: Religion is not to blame, people are to blame.

 

Historical stats on atrocities committed in the name of religion:

 

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atrocities.html

 

 

 

That links lists the 30 year war as not being religiously motivated. Um, no. It was a war between Catholics and Protestants. Or, rather, a war between the countries/powers of western Europe to decide which ones would claim which religions. It failed miserably, but it was a religious war nonetheless.

 

 

a

[Gooblink]

That links lists the 30 year war as not being religiously motivated. Um, no. It was a war between Catholics and Protestants. Or, rather, a war between the countries/powers of western Europe to decide which ones would claim which religions. It failed miserably, but it was a religious war nonetheless.

 

 

a

 

I see your point, though it's probably not fair to call it a religious war in the sense of atrocities being commited in the name of God. The countries/powers were using religion as a political device, not because of some divine order from above, or to appease a god. :)

[WishboneDawn]

Yes, but perhaps the Enlightenment happened because of the nature of Christianity, not despite it. Again, a feature not a bug.

 

Could be. Might not. Maybe? :)

 

My point is not to put down Christianity ( I happen to sort of like it myself :)) but to caution against taking a look at what's going on in our relatively thin slice of time and judge the comparitive merits of Islam and Christianity by that. The wheel turns, sometimes one is at the top, other times it's in the mud. I've no reason to think this point in time is the defining point for both religions.

 

But then, thinking back to the original post I quibbled with no point was being made about any larger judgement of either religion.

 

I DO think though, as Christians or people living in nations that are predominantly Christian we SHOULD be much more critical of Christianity. It's easy to see the flaws in the "other" while glossing over our own. Not something Jesus did. He was most critical of the Pharisees, some think it's because he WAS one. :)

[The Girls' Mom]

It's a sad thing when "Christians" are blatently ignoring one of the two greatest commandments: Love. It ruins our testimony, and isn't at all what Christ wants from us. We are our own worst enemy.

[WishboneDawn]

Currently, the fastest, most dynamic growth of Christianity is taking place in poor, developing nations. In contrast, Christianity is pretty much comatose in Europe, for instance. Churches in these developing nations are sending missionaries to plant churces in the US and Europe because they see the need of our wealthy selves for an infusion of the gospel. So I don't think that "stable/wealthy" dimension is the thing causing the reticience to burn and kill.

 

But then I could say that the roots of the Christianity in those nations lies in modern Christianity from stable, wealthy nations. :D

 

I think the safest thing for me to say is that I think the troubles religions go through, mine included, arebecause of the awful necessity of having to have humans involved in the process. They bring power structures, politics and all kinds of nasty stuff that muddle up faith and I don't think my religion is exempt from that.

[WishboneDawn]

You know what? I think I'm too much of a sucker for a thread where I can play Devil's advocate.

[Greta]

It was Rudi Giuliani who went after the jaywalkers and cleaned up NYC.

 

Thanks. I thought so but hesitated to say in case I was wrong and sounded like an idiot. :D

[Tea Time]

But then I could say that the roots of the Christianity in those nations lies in modern Christianity from stable, wealthy nations. :D

 

I think the safest thing for me to say is that I think the troubles religions go through, mine included, arebecause of the awful necessity of having to have humans involved in the process. They bring power structures, politics and all kinds of nasty stuff that muddle up faith and I don't think my religion is exempt from that.

 

Yes, ain't it the truth!

 

You know what? I think I'm too much of a sucker for a thread where I can play Devil's advocate.

 

:lol: Me, too!

 

So, on this thread, why is it that I feel like I have to do that in defense of Christianity and you have to do it in defense of Islam? Weird! I suppose at one time in my life I was more likely to defend other cultures, and the whole idea of being multicultural was hugely worth defending to me; but now, sometimes I feel like that really worthy idea has gotten strangely off course and oddly self destructive.

 

Is it not okay to acknowledge that good Christian principles, when they are rightly applied, do produce healthy families and productive communities? Maybe that is true of Islam as well, but I simply do not have enough experience with that religion in those cultures to assess that first hand. I have lived in a Christian culture. And I get weary of that culture being so critical of itself that it borders on being suicidal. But that doesn't mean I should error the other way. Always a danger, I think. So thanks for playing devil's advocate with me! Hehe!

 

And GretaLynne, you would have to work double-overtime to sound like an idiot. :tongue_smilie:

[Laurie4b]

When you are my age and have a teen, you are pretty sure you are already an idiot, so you can just say things right out loud.

 

:lol::lol:

[Laurie4b]

But then I could say that the roots of the Christianity in those nations lies in modern Christianity from stable, wealthy nations. :D

 

I think the safest thing for me to say is that I think the troubles religions go through, mine included, arebecause of the awful necessity of having to have humans involved in the process. They bring power structures, politics and all kinds of nasty stuff that muddle up faith and I don't think my religion is exempt from that.

 

Your first paragraph does not support your own initial point; it's simply arguing with what I said, but from another angle.

 

The second paragraph is undoubtedly true.

[Greta]

And GretaLynne, you would have to work double-overtime to sound like an idiot. :tongue_smilie:

 

:lol: I wish that were true, but it seems to happen spontaneously without my prior knowledge or consent. :D

 

It's been great to "see" you around here again. I always enjoy your posts so much.

[Greta]

When you are my age and have a teen, you are pretty sure you are already an idiot, so you can just say things right out loud.

 

:lol:

[WishboneDawn]

Your first paragraph does not support your own initial point; it's simply arguing with what I said, but from another angle.

 

 

 

Well that's the danger of taking up the Devil's advocate position. Sometimes you find yourself arguing just to argue. :)

[PineFarmMom]

I'm an atheist, so I don't have a dog in this fight...but why is it that people wring their hands and murmur condemnations of Christians doing something so mild as burning Korans while Muslims are actively persecuting and even killing Christians?

 

Here's one of many articles to light your fire. Pun intended. When was the last time Christians stormed a mosque and murdered its inhabitants?

 

 

:iagree: But see, pointing THAT out is not politically correct.

 

I don't agree with the burning of the Koran. But what you stated is so very understated anymore. The bias is amazing!!