Piano note reading question (advice)

[Mom2GirlsTX]

My dd 10 is driving her sweet music teacher nuts. Her piano teacher is in her 70's and has been teaching many years, and is very sweet. The problem is that dd repeatedly now insist she can not read the notes. She has been taking lessons almost 3 years so this is hard to believe. What she likes to do is for the teacher to play the song and dd copies it. If she has trouble we notice she twiddles around and then plays it correctly...so we do know that she is playing almost all songs by sound. She will hear a song on the radio and go tap it out on the piano after a few tries she has the song down, so I'm sure the teacher is right. How can I break her from just going by sound and get her to actually read the notes? Do I start her from the beginning?

I am talking every lesson I hear "now A you know that note..what is it? Okay, lets go with GBDFA or F-A-C-E or whatever it is...

I purchased a note reader book and she seems to do fine with filling in the blanks correctly when she has a pencil and is doing it, but comes to playing she melts down.

I hope I am explaining this somewhat correctly as I have had no musical training. DD does play beautifully, but teacher is concerned that it is all "by ear" and not by reading.

Any of you have any advice how I can help dd?

thanks!

[daisychics]

My dd 10 is driving her sweet music teacher nuts. Her piano teacher is in her 70's and has been teaching many years, and is very sweet. The problem is that dd repeatedly now insist she can not read the notes. She has been taking lessons almost 3 years so this is hard to believe. What she likes to do is for the teacher to play the song and dd copies it. If she has trouble we notice she twiddles around and then plays it correctly...so we do know that she is playing almost all songs by sound. She will hear a song on the radio and go tap it out on the piano after a few tries she has the song down, so I'm sure the teacher is right. How can I break her from just going by sound and get her to actually read the notes? Do I start her from the beginning?

I am talking every lesson I hear "now A you know that note..what is it? Okay, lets go with GBDFA or F-A-C-E or whatever it is...

I purchased a note reader book and she seems to do fine with filling in the blanks correctly when she has a pencil and is doing it, but comes to playing she melts down.

I hope I am explaining this somewhat correctly as I have had no musical training. DD does play beautifully, but teacher is concerned that it is all "by ear" and not by reading.

Any of you have any advice how I can help dd?

thanks!

 

Wow, this sounds like my ds! I've been googling this and have found nothing. I was trying to use flashcards - he hates it. I do not play piano either so I'm at a lost.

My brother who does play says it'll come in time but I don't understand how he can learn a song during his lessons and is able to play it - without knowing the notes.

He knows the notes, he does the F.A.C.E and All Cows Eat Grass. I want him to look at the note and say "A!" as soon as he sees it. If anyone has any suggestion I would love to know as well.

OH! I do have Music Ace Deluxe (bought from Amazon) but have not consistently done it because I feel he has sooo much already. I might add it in more to help him practice. I would still love to hear more suggestions. Thanks for posting about this. I understand :grouphug:.

[Jenn in Mo]

My 10 year old son is the same way. I've been frustrated about it because I hate paying for lessons that aren't giving him much more than another chance to play by ear. He can do that without a teacher. I know it's not a sweet teacher's fault, but I don't know what to do to put the eyes with the hands. Is this another one of those left brain/right brain things that I keep putting off learning about?

[amy g.]

I was coming to post the same question.

 

My 12 year old has a great ear, and perfect pitch, but his unwillingness to read music is beginning to hold him back.

 

He does Note Trainer, but I'm looking for something more.

 

http://www.musictheory.net/trainers/html/id82_en.html

[CLHCO]

Have her talk through a new song first. She should be able to simply go through it telling you the notes. If she doesn't know them, have her get her theory book or flash cards out and figure it out herself. Right now she's enjoying playing, which is good, but she only wants to do the fun part. I'd divide her lesson up with a set amount of note reading she must do each day - starting with a very low number for success, before you let her play the songs she loves or her current requirements she's learned by ear.

 

She's kind of using you and the teacher's brain right now because it's easier. I know as I kid I'd have done it too.

[Whisperlily]

I don't have any help, but I experienced the same thing as a child taking piano lessons.

 

I wanted to cry, because I tried so hard. I tried to learn, and I could "count" out what the name of the note was, but despite study, lessons on theory without the piano, and two different methods to teach me... I still couldn't get it.

 

I could also play "by ear" and if given enough time, I could "calculate" which note to start on in a music piece. I couldn't jump more than two notes up or down the scale without having to take the time to calculate it, then play by memory. With enough practice, I could play pieces beautifully, but I still couldn't read music.

 

It was a painful experience.

 

My DD on the other hand picked it up instantly and is a beautiful (real) pianist who can read music. She didn't get it from me. *sigh*

 

Don't blame your daughter. For some of us, it just doesn't click. I couldn't translate written music to the keys on a piano.

[Jen in NY]

http://www.gmajormusictheory.org/Fundamentals/workbooks.html

 

Here's a website that has a fairly comprehensive theory workbook... all printable and free. Working through the first few lessons would probably help some. After that, you might have your dc write the note names on a piece of paper for a line or two of whatever s/he is working on and have the teacher check it... it would really only take 30 seconds or so; the kid would get the benefit of working on "the piece" of the week, the note names, and you wouldn't have to learn any music to get it done :o)

 

HTH

Jen

[Adrianne]

Learning to read music is hard and requires practice and work. The two things kids hate the most! But it is important. Just like reading words, you must practice, practice, practice. Overtime if they stick with it, it will come easier. Remember, it is like learning a whole new language.

 

I would have her read or sing the notes for the songs out loud to you or write them above the notes before she plays a song. Also, give her music she has never heard before. Once she reads the notes, then the teacher can help her with the sound. You may have to start with songs that are below her playing level. (try Teaching little fingers to play by Thompson).

 

I know the Suzuki method for violin starts out this way, learning by sounds and then teaches music reading later on. Maybe you can find a Suzuki teacher to help you.

 

HTH

[CLHCO]

If your son has true perfect pitch, I know what can help with that. Search and download a program called Finale NotePad. It's free. Then have him type in his notes to the music he's learning. The program plays the pitch as it's typed. Soon he'll associate the sight with the anticipated sound. My son learned to read fairly well right away doing this for fun. Often he just made up his own music but he already knew the notes by pitch so he just put sight to it.

 

Although this wouldn't work as well for a child without perfect pitch, it may still be a good exercise in hearing the music as the note is typed. I would imagine this would help her anticipate at least intervals. It helps rhythmically too since once it's typed in the program will play it and she can watch as the little green line passes by the notes, showing the rhythm and pitches. It WON'T help direct counting but it can help smooth out a more intuitive feel for a rhythmic notation.

[Storm Bay]

Sight reading. Lots and lots of sight reading, but not lots each day. Just in case that's a new term to anyone, sight reading is when you read and play music you've never seen before. It should be at an easier level than she is capable of playing. For kids who struggle like this, I often have them name each note first, then name each note as she plays them (that would be when she plays only one note at a time and hands separately, which is how to do this.) Since she can read them in the workbook she needs to transfer that to practical application.

 

It's very common for children with "good ears" to have a harder time learning to read music. When I have had students like this I REFUSE to play the song for them first. I have the student first clap the rhythm while counting the beat and name each note before playing it until they are able to read music without this help, and when they're learning they usually play each song several ways at the lesson. They play and name the notes, they play and count aloud. And I never, never, never allow students to write the letter names by the notes as this only confuses the issue.

 

btw, for the poster who said it's hard to learn to read music, in my experience learning to read music is similar to learning to read words--some kids find it takes longer than others. Some kids just inhale learning to read music the same way some kids just learn to read without any fuss or on their own.

[Mom2GirlsTX]

As usual, you ladies rock! I now realize I am going to have to be much, much more "forceful" in getting her to read her notes. What I mean by forceful is that I'm going to have to force myself to take this on and faithfully follow through that each day we practice the notes.

I do feel better that she is "not alone" in that many other children do this, but it makes me realize that I have alot of work to do!

I do appreciate all the advice!

[Rhesa]

Sight reading. Lots and lots of sight reading, but not lots each day. Just in case that's a new term to anyone, sight reading is when you read and play music you've never seen before. It should be at an easier level than she is capable of playing. For kids who struggle like this, I often have them name each note first, then name each note as she plays them (that would be when she plays only one note at a time and hands separately, which is how to do this.) Since she can read them in the workbook she needs to transfer that to practical application.

 

btw, for the poster who said it's hard to learn to read music, in my experience learning to read music is similar to learning to read words--some kids find it takes longer than others. Some kids just inhale learning to read music the same way some kids just learn to read without any fuss or on their own.

 

I agree completely. Find a book that is easier than the level she is currently on. Her teacher (if she is willing) could take 5 minutes at the beginning of each lesson showing her sightreading skills, then assign certain pages for her to sightread at home.

 

On another note- I can read music quite well, but feel that I gained it at the expense of experimenting by ear! I would love to be able to do both well! Would it be possible to have space during practice times for both skills? (I'm sure they are just dying for more practice time!!:D)

[beansprouts]

My first thought was are there any vision problems?

 

I also have a child who has an excellent ear, and could play any song she heard. She was slow to pick up on the note reading. Part of the issue with her was the vision problem. Part of it was the way she was being taught. What she needed was a more academic approach to note reading. Her new teacher uses the Bastian books, and started her on the theory workbooks. Since last fall she has taken off with it, and now she knows more theory than I do :blushing:

[Storm Bay]

I agree completely. Find a book that is easier than the level she is currently on. Her teacher (if she is willing) could take 5 minutes at the beginning of each lesson showing her sightreading skills, then assign certain pages for her to sightread at home.

 

On another note- I can read music quite well, but feel that I gained it at the expense of experimenting by ear! I would love to be able to do both well! Would it be possible to have space during practice times for both skills? (I'm sure they are just dying for more practice time!!:D)

 

Yes, I'm the same as you. Learning to read music was fairly easy, so I didn't know I had a good ear until much later (but it was lazy due to playing piano as opposed to a string instrument). My childhood teacher never devoted much time to ear work until we started doing exams. I highly recommend a balance of both most of the time. When there is an extreme situation, like this, I'd tip the scale the other way for a while and let her do ear work on her own time until she gets better. You could also have her compose her own pieces.

[pianoplayer]

Let's face it: playing nifty songs is fun! Learning notation skills, however, is much more akin to memorizing your multiplication/division tables. It has to be drilled and learned, as I tell my kids, backwards, forwards, sideways, and so well that I could wake you up at 3 a.m. (like that's going to happen! :glare:), point to a note, and you could tell me instantly what note it is and what rhythm value it carries.

 

I have used a combination of flash cards and Music Ace Deluxe to drill those pesky details with my kids, but in the end, it's going to take enough repetition for the notation to get permanently implanted in the brain!

 

FWIW, poor sightreading skills are common with children who have excellent ears for music. They "hear" the music so well that they can "get by" with lazy reading skills . . . if you let them. The first thing I would do is make sure that no one (teacher, parent, sibling) plays an assigned piece for your child before he/she has to go learn it. (This also means that it helps if the child is assigned pieces that he/she is not already familiar with, btw.)

 

Hope this is helpful! :)

[mktkcb]

Hi, everything everyone has said is great! I especially agree with Karin about sight reading lots and lots of easy stuff. My son does certificate of merit every year, and they are evaluated on sight reading, so his teacher definitely hits on this. This is what she does, and this is what the CM evaluators do: take no more than 2-3 lines of music that they have never seen before - could be exercises especially designed for sight reading practice, or just music from a method or suppl. book - and put it in front of them. They have 30 seconds to study the music. This means note the time sig, key sig, get hands positioned on right notes, read through the notes, etc. Then they have to play the music WITHOUT stopping (doesn't matter how slowly they play) to the best of their ability. You'll need ridiculously easy music to start with. Even if you have to go back to primer level to start with, fine. But if you start doing this with really easy music, helping them learn what to look for, how to NOT go back and "fix", they will learn. The key is doing this with as easy of music as necessary, and if you do this about 2x per practice session (takes all of 3-4 min), they'll get the hang of it. Just like kids learning to read books need lots of practice with books a bit below level to get fluent, so reading music requires the same. Faber has a plethora of fun/different style books at all levels that I have found are good for this. I think when some parents start their kids taking piano, they are content to let their kids just practice their method books for their piano lessons thinking that thats good enough. When we teach our kids to read, don't we try to have lots of fun easy books lying enticingly around the house to encourage them to read for fun and fluency?? We don't just drag them through those phonics lessons and assume that'll be good enough. We want good lit *around*, don't we?? I submit that we ought to do the same with music. Easy, enticing, and plentiful. And yes, it costs money, but that sort of comes with the territory, just like books.

[Mama Anna]

Hi, everything everyone has said is great! I especially agree with Karin about sight reading lots and lots of easy stuff. My son does certificate of merit every year, and they are evaluated on sight reading, so his teacher definitely hits on this. This is what she does, and this is what the CM evaluators do: take no more than 2-3 lines of music that they have never seen before - could be exercises especially designed for sight reading practice, or just music from a method or suppl. book - and put it in front of them. They have 30 seconds to study the music. This means note the time sig, key sig, get hands positioned on right notes, read through the notes, etc. Then they have to play the music WITHOUT stopping (doesn't matter how slowly they play) to the best of their ability. You'll need ridiculously easy music to start with. Even if you have to go back to primer level to start with, fine. But if you start doing this with really easy music, helping them learn what to look for, how to NOT go back and "fix", they will learn. The key is doing this with as easy of music as necessary, and if you do this about 2x per practice session (takes all of 3-4 min), they'll get the hang of it. Just like kids learning to read books need lots of practice with books a bit below level to get fluent, so reading music requires the same. Faber has a plethora of fun/different style books at all levels that I have found are good for this.QUOTE]

 

:iagree: Also, though I'm not sure how the two compare, Alfred also has many different types of books for each level - generally under $8 each - that you could use for short sight-reading practice. I'm one of the ones who got used to memorizing my pieces (back when they were short and easy) and to this day have a hang-up with anything that requires simultaneous movement of both hands because I haven't taken the time to train my eyes to READ both staves like I should. Memorizing is so much easier - until it isn't anymore . . .:001_huh:

 

Mama Anna

[Storm Bay]

Something I just thought of now is that my absolute favourite method for teaching kids to read music (and it's not only probably too late now but something her teacher isn't familiar with or trained how to use as it's different) is Music Pathways. I've taught Alfred's, Bastien, John Thompson, Noona, etc, but I love, love, love the way Music Pathways does this hands down. Noona is my second favourite. It even improved my ledger line not reading and I was the teacher!

 

You may be able to get used old method books for sight reading, too. As for Music Pathways, it was designed for group classes and I learned to use this in workshops when I taught in the schools (extracurricular programme), but I learned to love it so much I started using it with beginners in my private lessons. It incorporates ear training, reading, composition assignments, technique, etc. Like every method, it has at least one weakness and that is that it takes a long time to do much hands together work. I can see why, but in private lessons I often introduce a second method at a certain point to get that in there sooner, depending on the student.