Hi, I'm new to this forum, and looking for advice...

[4them]

I am mom to 5 kids, 3 of whom I will be schooling next fall, with 2 toddlers. I have used Sonlight for 6 years, but now am thinking of switching to TOG so that I can teach all of the kids the same topic at their individual level. This year has been our least productive year...we didn't even make it through half of Core 4, mostly because of me. I just couldn't get back into the swing of things after having my baby last year. So my question is this...If I couldn't/didn't handle the responsibility of SL, will I be able to handle TOG? My idea is to use TOG as the "together" time in our schooling (the fun stuff that I never get around to!), & to make the other subjects as independent as possible. But now I'm wondering if I am trying to make myself live up to this ideal that I just am not able to accomplish? I am wondering if I should just make all their subjects independent (Not reliant on me reading, etc...I know that they can't be totally self-reliant at their ages) because at least they would get something done! It would mean a lot of online or workbook/textbook type curriculum, which I do take some advantage of now (TT, workbook style Science which my son loves)...but that is not my ideal at all. I love the IDEA of SL or TOG, I love history & the idea of studying all the subjects included in TOG, but I just don't know if I'm cut out for this type of schooling. I feel like I'm failing...

Sorry if this post is out of place here...I just don't know where to go for advice on this. I do use the SL forum, but I figured I would get lots of advice from SL lovers (understandably so!) & I really want input from people who have used TOG or who have dealt with the same issues. TIA...

[Sahamamama]

Welcome! Most of us are asleep this time of day (night), but if you come back in the morning, around.... oh, 9 am, you should find a few more people up and standing by the "Water Cooler" drinking coffee, working up the strength to homeschool yet another day.... :D

 

How old are your students/children?

 

What are their "grade levels?" Do you combine any of them for English, Latin, or Math?

 

What year would you be doing in the history rotation (if you are doing that)?

Edited June 4, 2010 by Sahamamama

[battlemaiden]

Welcome!

 

I have four grades this year and will have 5 next. I use TOG for the express purpose of keeping them all on the same page. It took me 10 weeks or so to get in a groove, but now I know the system and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I can bounce my kids around in book suggestions (they have recommended books for each age level, but sometimes I want the kids to read above or below their reading level).

 

I used SL my first year (8 yrs ago) and I loved it, but I could NOT reconcile the different ages and grades. I would prefer maybe using Veritas Press for my oldest son, but TOG really does meet all my needs.

 

My top suggestion is to get very familiar with the system before starting your school year! Print out the sample chapter, put it in a binder, look up the books at your library, look into the suggested lay out of the week: read history Mon., literature on Tues., Geography and activity pages Wed., Lecture Thursday, Writing assignment after lecture due on Friday. People lay out their weeks differently, but that is the rhythm we have found.

 

As for the toddlers specifically, I have the kids do their readings and activity pages independently in the mornings while my toddler is awake, and I do any lecture and/or arts/crafts during nap time. My goal is to have all kids look at the TOG week, get their books, make their copies if necessary, and get all the work done before Thursday when we meet for discussion. They *love* the lecture/discussion- I make cookies. :D

 

I hope that helps.

 

Jo

[northcoast]

I'm homeschooling an upcoming 6th and 3rd graders. Have used Sonlight for history, readers, and read-a-louds but am considering TOG. I love the reading selections with Sonlight and ease of use/schedule. Thanks to a prev poster about how you lay out your week. That was helpful!

 

Northcoast

[Susan in KY]

If I couldn't/didn't handle the responsibility of SL, will I be able to handle TOG? My idea is to use TOG as the "together" time in our schooling (the fun stuff that I never get around to!), & to make the other subjects as independent as possible.

 

While I love SL in theory, and have purchased it (from 1st through 6th grades!) for a dear friend of mine who is a missionary in Africa (thus allowing my dc to read every book in it before it gets posted), I don't think it could ever work for us. Why? The TM overwhelms me. I am sure it's really easy, but I am overwhelmed by the TM.

 

I looked at TOG and decided my dc aren't ready for that, either. It's too much for us.

 

My Father's World is an excellent fit, though! I loved their recommendations, already used Singapore Math, and had used Ambleside Online for grade 1, so I was acquainted with the Charlotte Mason method. Criticism of MFW is that it's "light," but I haven't found that to be the case, particularly when you are very sure to add in all the book basket selections. My dc have learned a tremendous amount using MFW as our guide, and I am pleased with how it's organized and accessible. Check it out, you may like it.

[Hen]

I had the opposite experience, I used TOG to keep my 5 students together, but realized that tho we were all in the same time period, they were in 3 different programs in reality. My 3 youngest students were being read to from the logic books, my next child was in another level, my oldest was bouncing back and forth from the Rhetoric level and the D level. It became an expensive reading list for me, I finally decided I might as well do 2 diff SL cores and have it more open and go.

[4them]

Welcome! Most of us are asleep this time of day (night), but if you come back in the morning, around.... oh, 9 am, you should find a few more people up and standing by the "Water Cooler" drinking coffee, working up the strength to homeschool yet another day.... :D

 

How old are your students/children?

 

What are their "grade levels?" Do you combine any of them for English, Latin, or Math?

 

What year would you be doing in the history rotation (if you are doing that)?

 

Yes, I know it was late when I posted! Dh was gone for the evening so I stayed up late, & I'm in the west.

 

My students will be ds11 (6th grade), ds9 (4th, but not a strong reader), & dd5 (K, not too worried about including her in TOG, she'll just be along for the ride). The 2 oldest are close enough in age that I should be able to combine them, but in reality my oldest is advanced & my 2nd struggles, so the gap is bigger than their ages suggest. Then there are the "babies"...dd3 & dd1. I don't combine for any other subjects, for the reasons stated above. As far as what year we would be doing, it depends. I would like to start with year 1, because we've been on US history for a long time. The reason it's not set is because my dsis also homeschools her 5 with SL, & we're thinking about trying to do the same year of TOG so we can combine activities into our own little co-op. She's just finishing up the first 1/2 of World History (Core 1) & Eastern Hemisphere (Core 5), so I think she'd want to carry on from there. She is new to homeschooling & is less comfortable with "flexing" than I am.

 

Thanks for the welcome!

[4them]

Welcome!

 

I have four grades this year and will have 5 next. I use TOG for the express purpose of keeping them all on the same page. It took me 10 weeks or so to get in a groove, but now I know the system and I wouldn't trade it for anything. I can bounce my kids around in book suggestions (they have recommended books for each age level, but sometimes I want the kids to read above or below their reading level).

 

I used SL my first year (8 yrs ago) and I loved it, but I could NOT reconcile the different ages and grades. I would prefer maybe using Veritas Press for my oldest son, but TOG really does meet all my needs.

 

My top suggestion is to get very familiar with the system before starting your school year! Print out the sample chapter, put it in a binder, look up the books at your library, look into the suggested lay out of the week: read history Mon., literature on Tues., Geography and activity pages Wed., Lecture Thursday, Writing assignment after lecture due on Friday. People lay out their weeks differently, but that is the rhythm we have found.

 

As for the toddlers specifically, I have the kids do their readings and activity pages independently in the mornings while my toddler is awake, and I do any lecture and/or arts/crafts during nap time. My goal is to have all kids look at the TOG week, get their books, make their copies if necessary, and get all the work done before Thursday when we meet for discussion. They *love* the lecture/discussion- I make cookies. :D

 

I hope that helps.

 

Jo

 

Thanks, your reply does help. The bolded above is my main reason for thinking of leaving SL. It's worked for us for years, but at this point I just feel that I can't make it work as well. I feel that when I teach to the oldest, my next ds is left unengaged & uninterested, & I can't hold back the oldest to the level of his younger brother. Then adding in the next group of kids makes SL just seem impossible for us. I know that many people make multiple cores work, but I just know I can't do it. I could have my oldest work independently, but I'd still be doing 2 cores, 1 for 2nd ds & 1 for the girls. It's just not feasible.

 

I did download the 3 week sample, & I plan on going through it thoroughly. I watched a video on the website as well, & it really helped me to understand more about how TOG works week to week.

 

Thanks for the outline of what TOG looks like in your home! I love the cookies for discussion day idea!

[4them]

While I love SL in theory, and have purchased it (from 1st through 6th grades!) for a dear friend of mine who is a missionary in Africa (thus allowing my dc to read every book in it before it gets posted), I don't think it could ever work for us. Why? The TM overwhelms me. I am sure it's really easy, but I am overwhelmed by the TM.

 

I looked at TOG and decided my dc aren't ready for that, either. It's too much for us.

 

My Father's World is an excellent fit, though! I loved their recommendations, already used Singapore Math, and had used Ambleside Online for grade 1, so I was acquainted with the Charlotte Mason method. Criticism of MFW is that it's "light," but I haven't found that to be the case, particularly when you are very sure to add in all the book basket selections. My dc have learned a tremendous amount using MFW as our guide, and I am pleased with how it's organized and accessible. Check it out, you may like it.

 

Depending on ages you may be able to keep them all together with My Father's World. Their website isn't great, but the program is.

 

It's open and go pretty much, although a bit of organizing at the beginning of the year is helpful. I have found MFW very balanced. Everything is already planned (although you can tweak things as you like). It is set up with a weekly grid and that grid is broken down into days and assignments for each day. After the assignment grid you get a few pages of teacher's notes detail a project, note needed supplies for the week, give you a recipe or let you know about something to look out for in upcoming reading.

 

MFW covers history, geography, science, bible,art, music, family read aloud and lit study for older kids. My favorite thing is that MFW is balanced. You are not overwhelmed with books to read aloud. It is not all little worksheets. It isn't just hands-on projects. There is some of everything and it all works together into a very rich whole, but no one thing takes over the program.

 

It doesn't have as many required books as SL or TOG but there is an extensive book list that you can use to enrich your studies. You can use this to get more books out of the library but the program is completely doable without them. The most highly recommended books have a * next to them and I know a lot of former SL people simply buy those books because they prefer to have their books on hand.

 

I'm not using it now but I did use MFW for three years and I am pretty sure I will go back to it at some point so please feel free to ask me questions.

 

ETA - you use any math and LA that you want with MFW so that each child is working at their own level in those things but you keep everyone together for the content subjects.

 

Thanks for the suggestions...I am open to looking into other programs as well. I think I looked at MFW before, but maybe got turned off by the website. I'll definitely look again...

[4them]

I had the opposite experience, I used TOG to keep my 5 students together, but realized that tho we were all in the same time period, they were in 3 different programs in reality. My 3 youngest students were being read to from the logic books, my next child was in another level, my oldest was bouncing back and forth from the Rhetoric level and the D level. It became an expensive reading list for me, I finally decided I might as well do 2 diff SL cores and have it more open and go.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. I definitely want pros & cons. That type of situation is what I'm trying to avoid. May I ask how much time you spend on 2 Cores daily? Do you do 4 or 5 day? My dsis is doing 2 Cores & it takes her all day to get done with school. Granted it is her first year, but still...

[4them]

I'm beginning to think that I've posed an impossible question...how can anyone else know what curriculum will work best for my family? :D I am realizing that this needs to be a matter of research, prayer, & discussion between myself & my dh. It does help me to see what has & has not worked for others, & why. It helps me to see my own blind spots, IYKWIM. I am just not a risk-taker, so even though I've been looking at TOG for a year now, I can't seem to get up the courage to jump into something totally new. I'm just so scared to waste time & money on something that doesn't work for us. Thanks for all your input...

If anyone else wants to share their experience, please do so!

[seekhim4ever]

I too switched from SL to TOG three years ago. We found that SL was too reading intensive and lacked the upper level classical support I desired. TOG takes the classical approach of teaching...stages rather than ages. Depending on the ability levels of your children, TOG may alleviate some of your stress by giving you the structure to combine history. TOG also has a writing component you could also use to address your children together. They have not yet published science, grammar, or math as part of their curriculum. On their site you can download lessons for free to give it a try.

[4them]

It is the impossible question.... but those get posed here on a daily basis, so no worries!

 

You could also do a search on the curriculum board for TOG, SL and MFW. You will get many hits and many long (sometimes heated ;) )threads comparing the them. We can't tell you what will work for your family, but seeing how it worked for to her people can give you a clue about how it will work for your family. Thanks...I did search on the TOG board, but I didn't even know MFW had a board! It does help, but I guess at a certain point you just have to try it for yourself to know...

 

Also, MFW and TOG each have samples. Although I don't think the MFW samples do it justice, it gives you an idea of the layout. The TOG sample is a full 3 weeks and you could get books from the library and really do 2-3 weeks of TOG to see how things go. I'll be checking into MFW today. I already downloaded the TOG sample.

 

I'm not the West coast and if you happen to be in the area you are welcome to look at my MFW years so that you can see them in person.

I'm assuming you mean that you are on the West coast? :D I am in the West, but inland...about 5 hours from Seattle, just over the border into Idaho. Thanks for the offer though! I wonder if they'll be at any local curriculum fairs? I'll check into it...

[4them]

I too switched from SL to TOG three years ago. We found that SL was too reading intensive and lacked the upper level classical support I desired. TOG takes the classical approach of teaching...stages rather than ages. Depending on the ability levels of your children, TOG may alleviate some of your stress by giving you the structure to combine history. TOG also has a writing component you could also use to address your children together. They have not yet published science, grammar, or math as part of their curriculum. On their site you can download lessons for free to give it a try.

 

This brings up a point I'm confused about. My impression of TOG is that they do read-alouds, but perhaps not as many or they are more conducive to a larger age range? Maybe you can clear that up for me...

I honestly don't know much about the classical approach. I am more ecclectic, for lack of a better label. I have heard great things about the writing in TOG...we gave up on the SL LA a long time ago. We are using BJU English, because we just needed the structure to build on & we were totally lacking that in SL.

[northcoast]

Thanks for all sharing everyone. One question I have, how does MFW & Sonlight compare to TOG for teaching your child to think critically, especially in the high school years. Or do I need start a thread over there? I love the look of TOG for critically thinking but it looks maybe to be to rigorous for us. I'm sort of ecclectic too. And I don't care for SL LA.

 

I'm off to camp with my family for the weekend. I'll check in later. Thanks!

 

Northcoast

[4them]

Yes, I'm in Oregon. I actually meant you should check these boards. I find the curriculum specific boards are (like you might expect) pretty slanted toward their own curriculum but here you will get all kinds of answers.

 

Ah ha! So there's a curriculum board on these forums...I'll check that out! Yes, it's hard to get an unbiased answer on curriculum specific boards, for obvious reasons!

[Alenee]

I just wanted to pop in and share some tips for the TOG route. I went to the WHO convention two years ago and listened in on the TOG seminar. One thing that stood out right from the beginning was, "You cannot, nor should you, do everything." The way Lisa put it (who used to post here, not sure if she still does) was that if all you do is the first history reading on the list, you've done enough. Now...most of us WILL do more than that because really, one book doesn't seem like enough, however that tip helped me on weeks where I just didn't have enough bandwidth to get through the plans I'd made.

 

The way we did it for the two years with my 4th/5th grader and 1st/2nd grader:

 

1st/2nd was read to each day, small bits as she can't sit for very long.

4th/5th had her own reading list, usually 2-3 books for the week.

 

If I were going to use it again (I'm not because I don't want to be tempted to do it ALL and I want to spend more time on other subjects w/o history being everything we do):

 

3rd grader: 2 books on her own plus one read aloud by me, student activity page if we were able to get the book (I rely heavily on the library), and the evaluation.

 

6th grader: 2 books plus one read aloud with sister by me, student activity page, again IF we were able to get the book, evaluation, discussion.

 

I found the mapwork from SOTW activity guide to be a far better plan. I just couldn't do without any guided map directions.

 

You will probably like TOG *IF* you remember that you cannot do everything. If you're worried about money for a curriculum that may not work out, use your library (and also consider your book buying minimal for yr. 1...lots of bible, yr 3 and yr 4...lots of books in library...not so much for yr. 2).

 

hth!

[4them]

I just wanted to pop in and share some tips for the TOG route. I went to the WHO convention two years ago and listened in on the TOG seminar. One thing that stood out right from the beginning was, "You cannot, nor should you, do everything." The way Lisa put it (who used to post here, not sure if she still does) was that if all you do is the first history reading on the list, you've done enough. Now...most of us WILL do more than that because really, one book doesn't seem like enough, however that tip helped me on weeks where I just didn't have enough bandwidth to get through the plans I'd made.

 

The way we did it for the two years with my 4th/5th grader and 1st/2nd grader:

 

1st/2nd was read to each day, small bits as she can't sit for very long.

4th/5th had her own reading list, usually 2-3 books for the week.

 

If I were going to use it again (I'm not because I don't want to be tempted to do it ALL and I want to spend more time on other subjects w/o history being everything we do):

 

3rd grader: 2 books on her own plus one read aloud by me, student activity page if we were able to get the book (I rely heavily on the library), and the evaluation.

 

6th grader: 2 books plus one read aloud with sister by me, student activity page, again IF we were able to get the book, evaluation, discussion.

 

I found the mapwork from SOTW activity guide to be a far better plan. I just couldn't do without any guided map directions.

 

You will probably like TOG *IF* you remember that you cannot do everything. If you're worried about money for a curriculum that may not work out, use your library (and also consider your book buying minimal for yr. 1...lots of bible, yr 3 and yr 4...lots of books in library...not so much for yr. 2).

 

hth!

 

Thanks for posting! Since I've been hs'ing for a while, I don't have a problem picking & choosing what we'll do. My problem with SL at this point is that I need to modify it to make it work for my family, finding appropriate readers for different levels, etc. Unfortunately they don't list options & alternates like TOG does. That is one of the things that is drawing me to TOG. I know I can go find those alternatives & supplements, but I don't have the time or the desire to do that, especially if TOG has done it for me. Thanks for sharing your ideas on how to schedule TOG for each child. I like the concrete examples of how it plays out daily for families. I haven't looked much at the map portion of TOG. Have you used it with the Map Aids supplement? I'm wondering if that would solve the problem you had. I will look into the SOTW map guide. Honestly, we've barely done geography & mapping because I rarely ever got to it in SL, but I do want to do that. I want to learn more geography myself!

 

I'm not too worried about the money aspect...TOG does look expensive when I figure the entire resource list, but not that much more than SL, especially when I consider that the TOG instructor's manual covers 4 levels, while SL only covers 1 @ a time (for our family, since we can't combine easily). I have some of the books already, & I plan on shopping around, or else borrowing from the library. Our library isn't great here, so I'll have to look at their selection before I decide. I plan on only buying the first unit of whatever year we do (probably year 1) to see how it works for us.

 

I know what you mean about not spending all our time on history...in the first years especially I focused mostly on the three r's. But what I'm finding is that school has become something to check off, for both myself & my children, in order to get to the stuff we want to do. I don't like that! I enjoy history, & so do my kids, so I want to make this our "fun" time, IYKWIM. If my dsis ends up doing the same year that we do, we will be getting together to share projects, have celebrations, etc. I think it will be hugely motivating for both our families, especially since my dc have not had lots of outside activities, & her dc used to have more because they were in school.

 

Boy, sorry for blabbing so much everyone! Thanks again to all who have joined in the conversation so far!

[rawbanana]

I agree w/ those who suggested My Father's World. GREAT program and easy to implement with multiple ages.

Good luck!

[ChemMommy]

I couldn't do all that reading aloud anymore--there was just TOO much of it each day. Also, I wanted to keep everyone together in history as the spine for our family.

 

TOG has worked nicely for our family. You can download 3 full weeks of it to try for free. I'd do that to get a handle on it before you buy it. HOWEVER, the first time I downloaded it, I tossed it because it seemed so complicated. The second time, it didn't seem so bad.

 

I love, love, love the layout of the yellow-edge resource pages. I can see what everyone is doing in a week and move people up or down appropriately. I can grab a supplemental resource if it fits someone's interest or ignore them if we are busy. At the high school level, TOG really does supply support for mom that SL doesn't!

 

You will need to read aloud with your young ones, but the reading will be more non-fiction than SL provides. You have to choose how much to read a day and when to stop; SL tell you what do to each day. My kids all report they like reading more of one book on one day that a few pages from several books in one day, though.

[4them]

I agree w/ those who suggested My Father's World. GREAT program and easy to implement with multiple ages.

Good luck!

 

I wish there was a way for me to see MFW up close...I am not getting a good idea of it from the website. I did order the catalog but it won't be here for a few weeks. I have all summer to decide, but I just want to be done thinking about it all...

[4them]

I couldn't do all that reading aloud anymore--there was just TOO much of it each day. Also, I wanted to keep everyone together in history as the spine for our family.

 

TOG has worked nicely for our family. You can download 3 full weeks of it to try for free. I'd do that to get a handle on it before you buy it. HOWEVER, the first time I downloaded it, I tossed it because it seemed so complicated. The second time, it didn't seem so bad.

 

I love, love, love the layout of the yellow-edge resource pages. I can see what everyone is doing in a week and move people up or down appropriately. I can grab a supplemental resource if it fits someone's interest or ignore them if we are busy. At the high school level, TOG really does supply support for mom that SL doesn't!

 

You will need to read aloud with your young ones, but the reading will be more non-fiction than SL provides. You have to choose how much to read a day and when to stop; SL tell you what do to each day. My kids all report they like reading more of one book on one day that a few pages from several books in one day, though.

 

Thanks for sharing how it's worked for you. Several things you shared appealed to me in my situation. I'm going to print out the TOG sample tomorrow morning & study it for awhile. The video on the TOG website showing the week plan really helped me to understand it a lot better (I had the same issue you did the first time I downloaded the sample!).

[Chloe]

I don't mean to muddy the waters, but have you looked at Truthquest at all? It sounds like it would be a perfect fit for you, and much less expensive than TOG.

[4them]

I don't mean to muddy the waters, but have you looked at Truthquest at all? It sounds like it would be a perfect fit for you, and much less expensive than TOG.

 

I don't think I've ever heard of Truthquest! I'll look it up. Thanks for the suggestion.

[4them]

You could order it. THey have a 30 day return policy. Also, you could see if they are coming to a hs fair or conference near you. Unfortunately it seems to be tough for people to get over the Rockies (grumble grumble, SWB never comes here, grumble, grumble.)

 

I know what you mean about the Rockies...

I'll check the MFW site to see if they'll be around. Hadn't thought of ordering, but I'll keep it in mind if I like what I see in the catalog. Thanks, Cadam, for all your help!

[anotherbrother]

If you are looking for something that might be more independent you may want to consider looking at History Odyssey. It wouldn't keep you kids on the same page, but in the same time period. I believe their site is http://www.PandiaPress.com. They have great samples.

 

This only addresses history, but I'm sure you'll find tons of other suggestions on the curriculum board for your other subjects.

 

Good Luck

[4them]

If you are looking for something that might be more independent you may want to consider looking at History Odyssey. It wouldn't keep you kids on the same page, but in the same time period. I believe their site is http://www.PandiaPress.com. They have great samples.

 

This only addresses history, but I'm sure you'll find tons of other suggestions on the curriculum board for your other subjects.

 

Good Luck

 

Thanks, I'll check it out. There are so many great options! It's making me realize I really need to sit down and clarify what our needs & wants are so that I can make the best choice.