Do colleges consider American Sign Language a "foreign language"?

[Hunter's Moon]

I was wondering around the College Boards and say a post about ASL and BSL being different.

 

Then, I got to thinking... Do colleges accept American Sign Language for their foreign language requirement?

 

I am "fluent", so to speak, in ASL and thought instead of struggling with Italian, a language I was barely taught in PS, I could put ASL 1 and 2 for Junior year, and ASL 3 for Senior year.

 

I would study sign language further, I wouldn't just blow off the class because I know it.

 

Do colleges accept it for Foreign Language, or no?

[edithcrawley]

It depends on the college-you may want to try checking websites of schools you are interested in to see what they say on the matter. I know colleges I looked at only considered spoken/written languages as foreign language-i.e. French, Spanish, German, Italian, etc.

[Alyce]

None of the schools we looked at did. It had to be a traditional foreign language. I agree with the PP, check with the schools you might be interested in. Most have websites that will give you their admission requirements. If the answer isn't there call their admissions office and ask. Would hate to see you not get in because of the lack of a foreign language.

[HollyDay]

definitely check with the schools you are considering for college. Many do not accept ASL or "dead" languages (latin).

[Rosie_0801]

How would you go about studying it further? I'd think it was impossible to self educate a signed language at an advanced level. All that aside, I think there are more useful ways to spend your time. How much good would advanced ASL be in your life if you are already fluent? Unless you are just looking for easy credits. Are you able to improve your ASL any more? You're hearing, yes? Have you hit the glass ceiling yet?

 

Rosie

Edited May 31, 2010 by Rosie_0801

[Hunter's Moon]

How would you go about studying it further? I'd think it was impossible to self educate a signed language at an advanced level. All that aside, I think there are more useful ways to spend your time. How much good would advanced ASL be in your life if you are already fluent? Unless you are just looking for easy credits. Are you able to improve your ASL any more? You're hearing, yes? Have you hit the glass ceiling yet?

 

Rosie

 

I still have much to learn, as any one fluent in a language would. And yes, I am hearing. I have partial hearing issues but not enough to need a hearing aid or use sign language to communicate.

 

I'm going to start calling colleges tomorrow and if a lot don't accept ASL, then I'll just continue it as my hobby. If a lot do though, then I will use it as a language.

[Hunter's Moon]

How would you go about studying it further? I'd think it was impossible to self educate a signed language at an advanced level. All that aside, I think there are more useful ways to spend your time. How much good would advanced ASL be in your life if you are already fluent? Unless you are just looking for easy credits. Are you able to improve your ASL any more? You're hearing, yes? Have you hit the glass ceiling yet?

 

Rosie

 

That's also my problem with Italian. There is also a lack of resources for those wanting to learn Italian. You see French, Spanish, German curricula everywhere, and maybe Italian here and there. Any programs I did look into were expensive.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

Several of the schools we looked at for my son accept ASL as a foreign language, although a few didn't.

 

I think it would be best to just take a look at the degree/transfer requirements for schools you are interested in and see if they accept it or not.

 

I hope you are interested in some that do. I think ASL is a great alternative to a traditional foreign language and so helpful. With just a bit of training in addition to language fluency, you can be an interpreter and make money for college expenses and such.

 

I used to work with the deaf community when I was in high school and through my first couple of years of college, you know, before kids and life caught up to me. It is very rewarding work.

[Hunter's Moon]

Several of the schools we looked at for my son accept ASL as a foreign language, although a few didn't.

 

I think it would be best to just take a look at the degree/transfer requirements for schools you are interested in and see if they accept it or not.

 

I hope you are interested in some that do. I think ASL is a great alternative to a traditional foreign language and so helpful. With just a bit of training in addition to language fluency, you can be an interpreter and make money for college expenses and such.

 

I used to work with the deaf community when I was in high school and through my first couple of years of college, you know, before kids and life caught up to me. It is very rewarding work.

 

Thats what I told my father when I was little; I wanted to be an interpretor.

 

I am considering doing Italian 3, dropping it my Senior year and just continuing with ASL.

 

I'll lightly study ASL on my off-time my Junior Year, and maybe enough work could be done where I could put ASL 1 on the Junior part of my transcript as well, and then I can take ASL 2 and 3 my Senior Year. I suppose the ASL credits wouldn't really matter on the transcript since I would already have 3 language credits, but I don't know.

 

The ASL credit thing was just a thought. It would be cheaper for us than Italian, but I don't want to take a language that might not be considered by some colleges.

 

If I didn't do Italian next year though, I would have three ASL's because I could do ASL and 2 Junior year and ASl 3 Senior Year and at least 2 Italians to fall back on.

 

I am just really confused and can't see the "bigger picture" as of now.

[Hunter's Moon]

I am just so confused!!!!

 

The reason I don't want to continue Italian and pick up ASL is not because it would be a blow off class. The reason I want to drop Italian and pick up ASL is because 1) I was barely taught the basics well, so how can I possibly teach myself advanced Italian?, 2) In order to get everything I would need to review Italian 1, catch up in Italian 2 and then do Italian 3, it would cost a lot, 3) resources and curricula for high school level Italian is scarce and when found, expensive- while ASL resources and curricula are abundant on Amazon and at my local library.

 

Also, as a pp stated, I could be an interpretor while in college.

 

WWYD?

 

Would you drop Italian after 2 years and do ASL 1 and ASL 2 Junior year and then ASL 3 Senior year, or would you stick with Italian?

 

I just figure if I do 3 years of ASL, maybe even 4, and the college I go to does not accept ASL as a language, I would still have 2 years of Italian under my belt.

 

The only college I saw that required 4 years of one language was Harvard, all others I've looked at require 2 years but recommend 4. I figure if my academics are strong enough, I should be able to get into colleges with the bare minimum for their language requirement.

 

 

Any insight or suggestions?

[cathmom]

You already have 2 years of Italian on your transcript; 3 years of ASL would be the icing on the cake and a job skill that Italian would never be! I would do that.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

You already have 2 years of Italian on your transcript; 3 years of ASL would be the icing on the cake and a job skill that Italian would never be! I would do that.

 

:iagree:That's what I was trying to say. It took me a couple of paragraphs to say what Cathmom said in one sentence. :001_smile: Being concise is certainly not one of my strong points. :lol::lol:

[Jane in NC]

The mantra is: Check with the college.

 

That said, I see two issues here. One is fulfilling an admissions requirement; the second is filling the language requirement of the college itself. Further note: colleges are different so you really need to look at their websites, bearing in mind that their policies are subject to change.

 

Some students with four years of high school foreign language under their belts will be exempt from the college's foreign language requirement (after they pass an in house exam). Many students prefer to have at least an introduction to a language in high school before taking their required language in college. Of course, not all colleges have foreign language requirements. That is why we always wash, rinse and repeat with the mantra: Check with the college.

[cathmom]

:iagree:That's what I was trying to say. It took me a couple of paragraphs to say what Cathmom said in one sentence. :001_smile: Being concise is certainly not one of my strong points. :lol::lol:

 

:001_smile:

[Hunter's Moon]

Yeah, I'm definitely going to call colleges.

[Big Buckin' Longhorn]

Yeah, I'm definitely going to call colleges.

 

You could probably find the information on their websites.

 

If not, most major universities have their admission counselors' email addresses online.

 

It can sometimes be easier to articulate your question via email rather than to call. But that's my personal hangup, LOL. Do whatever works best for you.

[Hunter's Moon]

Thank you for all the great advice! This is my plan of action:

 

We are not going to buy anything.

 

When I finally decide what I want to do, off to the library. Over the summer, I will check out both sign language and Italian books, and see which "calls" to me.

 

Am I crazy? Maybe.

 

Am I happy with my decision? Yes :)

[Hunter's Moon]

Oh, and most colleges around here accept ASL, and the ones that don't only require 2 years of foreign language.

 

I do plan on staying around this general area. We got some pretty good schools (AIC, UMass, BU, Harvard, Yale, etc.) so I don't feel I am missing out.

[Rosie_0801]

I still have much to learn, as any one fluent in a language would.

 

What I meant is that a hearing person really can't develop Deaf-like fluency because Deaf people code-switch with hearing people, even those with some hearing issues who are fluent in sign. Fortunately to become an interpreter, you don't need to be deaf-fluent! The other thing that can limit one's development in a signed language is one's personality. I hit a glass ceiling in my language development that I'll never be able to break because I'm not an extrovert. :)

 

Interpreting is a great way to pay your way through college, but it's not a good occupation to stay in forever.

 

Rosie

[Hunter's Moon]

What I meant is that a hearing person really can't develop Deaf-like fluency because Deaf people code-switch with hearing people, even those with some hearing issues who are fluent in sign. Fortunately to become an interpreter, you don't need to be deaf-fluent! The other thing that can limit one's development in a signed language is one's personality. I hit a glass ceiling in my language development that I'll never be able to break because I'm not an extrovert. :)

 

Interpreting is a great way to pay your way through college, but it's not a good occupation to stay in forever.

 

Rosie

 

Yeah. I want to be a History major, possibly.

[emubird]

If you don't plan to go to Italy, the ASL might actually be more useful.

 

There are a certain number of colleges that do not accept ASL for college graduation, but I don't know that there are a whole lot of them that don't accept it for admission. You might end up having to take another language in college however.

 

However, around us, even the die hard "ASL is not a language" colleges are now starting to accept it, even for college graduation. You might be pleasantly surprised when you ask around.

 

Here is one example of an ASL interpreter major:

http://www.stkate.edu/academic/asl_interpreting/

 

It takes 4 years if you start with no ASL at all.

 

What materials would you use for more ASL in high school? (I'm just shamelessly looking for ideas.)

[Hunter's Moon]

If you don't plan to go to Italy, the ASL might actually be more useful.

 

There are a certain number of colleges that do not accept ASL for college graduation, but I don't know that there are a whole lot of them that don't accept it for admission. You might end up having to take another language in college however.

 

However, around us, even the die hard "ASL is not a language" colleges are now starting to accept it, even for college graduation. You might be pleasantly surprised when you ask around.

 

Here is one example of an ASL interpreter major:

http://www.stkate.edu/academic/asl_interpreting/

 

It takes 4 years if you start with no ASL at all.

 

What materials would you use for more ASL in high school? (I'm just shamelessly looking for ideas.)

 

Thank you for the information and link.

 

Honestly, for materials, the library is quite abundant. At least ours is.

 

I may buy a book if I see one at Barnes and Noble or Borders, but otherwise, I will be using the library and online resources.

 

I will use online worksheets and techniques and videos and such.

[emubird]

My daughter was using Signing Naturally for her college ASL course. It was great with a teacher. Not so great without one or some other means of figuring out what all the signs in the book mean (a glossary would have been real nice).

 

We've also got a library with some great resources. We really like some of the tapes by Billy Seago. We tried a few books, but have trouble figuring out the signs if they're not actually moving.

 

But if you find others to recommend, please post.

 

As I recall, there's also some guy (an ASL major?) who has posted ASL interpretations of popular songs on youtube. They seemed pretty good. If you don't know about these I'll see if I can find the link. It should be in my daughter's bookmarks, but all I'm coming up with right now is juggling videos.

[Hunter's Moon]

My daughter was using Signing Naturally for her college ASL course. It was great with a teacher. Not so great without one or some other means of figuring out what all the signs in the book mean (a glossary would have been real nice).

 

We've also got a library with some great resources. We really like some of the tapes by Billy Seago. We tried a few books, but have trouble figuring out the signs if they're not actually moving.

 

But if you find others to recommend, please post.

 

As I recall, there's also some guy (an ASL major?) who has posted ASL interpretations of popular songs on youtube. They seemed pretty good. If you don't know about these I'll see if I can find the link. It should be in my daughter's bookmarks, but all I'm coming up with right now is juggling videos.

 

Thanks. I'll keep looking around for the both of us :)

 

P.S. I'm pretty sure I'm going with ASL. Just weighing my options.

[Ester Maria]

Pick one thing.

Stick with that thing.

When you start getting distracted off the goal and want to try out other things, CONTINUE with that one thing.

 

That's the only way you'll ever get anywhere with any foreign language, since they require a lot of accumulated, focused effort. Studying multiple language is a perfectly normal thing, if you intend to do the "accumulated focused effort" thing in all of them as opposed to scratching the surface in each and then letting it go - otherwise you're doing a pretty unwise thing "economically" speaking. You learn bits of many things, but you end up with nothing concrete, and on the long run it's as if you didn't learn anything.

 

Constant switching from Italian to French to ASL to whatever will be your newest fit after that is a recipe for a catastrophe (speaking on the long run, and speaking with the assumption that you actually want to learn something concrete as opposed to just get it done with for the requirement). Pick one, stick with one, suck it up when it gets hard, and in a few years you'll know it.

 

I'm not writing this with an agenda, it doesn't have to be Italian, but make a choice and stick to it.

Yeah. I want to be a History major, possibly.

A knowledge of a concrete foreign language with its body of literature will be of great aid there; much greater than a knowledge of a sign language.

However, around us, even the die hard "ASL is not a language" colleges are now starting to accept it, even for college graduation. You might be pleasantly surprised when you ask around.

I personally would not accept it.

And I DO think it's a language (because it certainly does fall under the requirements of what constitutes a language as a means of communication), but a foreign language study on a pre-university level has also some distinct goals with regards to cultural literacy and "literal" literacy (body of literature, press, etc.) which a sign language might not fulfill. It's also of a rather ephemeral importance in world affairs, the overall cultural context of our society, etc. Basically, not something that should serve to substitute a foreign language study.

[Hunter's Moon]

Pick one thing.

Stick with that thing.

When you start getting distracted off the goal and want to try out other things, CONTINUE with that one thing.

 

That's the only way you'll ever get anywhere with any foreign language, since they require a lot of accumulated, focused effort. Studying multiple language is a perfectly normal thing, if you intend to do the "accumulated focused effort" thing in all of them as opposed to scratching the surface in each and then letting it go - otherwise you're doing a pretty unwise thing "economically" speaking. You learn bits of many things, but you end up with nothing concrete, and on the long run it's as if you didn't learn anything.

 

Constant switching from Italian to French to ASL to whatever will be your newest fit after that is a recipe for a catastrophe (speaking on the long run, and speaking with the assumption that you actually want to learn something concrete as opposed to just get it done with for the requirement). Pick one, stick with one, suck it up when it gets hard, and in a few years you'll know it.

 

I'm not writing this with an agenda, it doesn't have to be Italian, but make a choice and stick to it.

 

A knowledge of a concrete foreign language with its body of literature will be of great aid there; much greater than a knowledge of a sign language.

 

I personally would not accept it.

And I DO think it's a language (because it certainly does fall under the requirements of what constitutes a language as a means of communication), but a foreign language study on a pre-university level has also some distinct goals with regards to cultural literacy and "literal" literacy (body of literature, press, etc.) which a sign language might not fulfill. It's also of a rather ephemeral importance in world affairs, the overall cultural context of our society, etc. Basically, not something that should serve to substitute a foreign language study.

 

I completely understand what you're saying and will take any suggestions you offer. And I was planning on sticking with Italian, but I was so poorly instructed and I do not have the money to buy all three levels of Italian. I originally wanted to throw together a bunch of workbooks of grammar, verbs, nouns, etc., but I figured that wouldn't be adequate enough for a foreign language course.

 

I believe you posted a list of what I should learn in Italian II and Italian III on a previous post of mine, but I don't know how to do that stuff without a textbook. I cannot take a dual enrollment in Italian at a CC, and even if I was able to take courses at my local high school, why would I do their Italian III course since they so poorly instructed me before?

 

Would throwing together workbooks work?

[jld]

Didn't someone mention that knowledge of German or French is helpful for history majors? You said that German, French, and Spanish are easily available to you; why not go with one of those?

 

I remember asking one of my professors in college about Esperanto, and why it wasn't well-accepted as a language. She said it was because it didn't have a recognized body of literature behind it. That may be part of why some colleges wouldn't accept ASL, as I believe Ester Maria mentioned.

[Rosie_0801]

Would throwing together workbooks work?

 

Much better for Italian than ASL.

 

Rosie

[emubird]

Actually, ASL probably does have a body of literature, and that may be why colleges are now starting to accept it. However, it's recent and visual, which is why a lot of people may not know about it. Also, I get the impression that a fair number of people think ASL is really just fingerspelling English. Given that, I can see why they would balk at calling ASL a language. It does have a lot of similarity to English, but then, so does French, so I don't see the problem there.

 

However, if you already have 2 years of Italian, you may not need to do more language. Have you checked with various colleges for their admissions requirements for languages? A lot of schools only require 2 years, and they do know that means 2 years of your standard high school language, which may not be much.

 

If your goal is to learn more of either of these languages rather than satisfy admissions requirements, then it really doesn't matter how you go about furthering your education in this area, as long as it satisfies you that you are learning more.

 

Also, although some colleges may say they have requirements beyond 2 years, that can be negotiable, if you're the sort of student they want.

 

ASL interpreting can be a pretty neat job, if you're in an area that uses a lot of interpreters. Around here, there's a lot of interpreting going on at theater events, so it's also good for someone who has a flair for the dramatic as well. My only concern would be that it might be difficult to cobble together full time employment. However, there are also teaching opportunities.

 

Here's a link to the Italian learning website of the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/italian/

You're probably beyond that, but I thought I'd put it up for others who might be interested.

[Hunter's Moon]

Actually, ASL probably does have a body of literature, and that may be why colleges are now starting to accept it. However, it's recent and visual, which is why a lot of people may not know about it. Also, I get the impression that a fair number of people think ASL is really just fingerspelling English. Given that, I can see why they would balk at calling ASL a language. It does have a lot of similarity to English, but then, so does French, so I don't see the problem there.

 

However, if you already have 2 years of Italian, you may not need to do more language. Have you checked with various colleges for their admissions requirements for languages? A lot of schools only require 2 years, and they do know that means 2 years of your standard high school language, which may not be much.

 

If your goal is to learn more of either of these languages rather than satisfy admissions requirements, then it really doesn't matter how you go about furthering your education in this area, as long as it satisfies you that you are learning more.

 

Also, although some colleges may say they have requirements beyond 2 years, that can be negotiable, if you're the sort of student they want.

 

ASL interpreting can be a pretty neat job, if you're in an area that uses a lot of interpreters. Around here, there's a lot of interpreting going on at theater events, so it's also good for someone who has a flair for the dramatic as well. My only concern would be that it might be difficult to cobble together full time employment. However, there are also teaching opportunities.

 

Here's a link to the Italian learning website of the BBC:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/languages/italian/

You're probably beyond that, but I thought I'd put it up for others who might be interested.

 

I understand that a lot of colleges only require two years, but I am really scared to drop it altogether. I will probably drop it my Senior Year. I've only seen one college require 4 years- Harvard, and the rest require two or even one. I don't believe I have ever seen one require 3 years.

 

I don't know. I'm just so confused, and Italian is so expensive but I don't want to limit my college options.

[Ester Maria]

I completely understand what you're saying and will take any suggestions you offer. And I was planning on sticking with Italian, but I was so poorly instructed and I do not have the money to buy all three levels of Italian. I originally wanted to throw together a bunch of workbooks of grammar, verbs, nouns, etc., but I figured that wouldn't be adequate enough for a foreign language course.

What do you mean all three levels? :confused: You don't need them all, at least not now, especially if money is tight. First one, then you'll see.

 

If we're talking about Progetto Italiano, you need #1 and maybe #2. Each book contains a lot more than it seems at the first glance, basically the entire grammar (without the most tricky nuances, naturally) is covered in #1 and #2, the last part is for people who speak the language, it's only texts with vocabulary, comprehension and cultural topics. I know some people who worked with #1 only for a full year or more, the textbooks are tiny, but dense, they contain a lot.

 

I'm not sure what the accompanying workbooks are like, but if they come without an answer key (they might, since they're used in schools too in Europe), I'll help you in case of a doubt, or need to check, etc. :)

I believe you posted a list of what I should learn in Italian II and Italian III on a previous post of mine, but I don't know how to do that stuff without a textbook. I cannot take a dual enrollment in Italian at a CC, and even if I was able to take courses at my local high school, why would I do their Italian III course since they so poorly instructed me before?

 

Would throwing together workbooks work?

Without a textbook, hardly, I agree. But there are more options. There are sites like this which can be a great aid. You have easy texts with vocabulary (it's all in Italian though, but you can easily google things you need in English, there are lots of online dictionaries), you can listen to dialogues, etc.

Next thing you can try is studying Italian via a field you're interested in (History, right?) - this is for example an article about a daily life in Renaissance and the figure of a mother. You have bunch of such sites (this one has lots of topics on Italian history) online, just just need to google something like "rinascimento" or whatever you're interested in, get a dictionary, and start working your way through the texts, while you study grammar at the same time. That way, if nothing else, at least you'll get some reading knowledge of the language that you might use later.

 

Workbooks are in any case a good idea, make sure you have a steady progress in grammar, and then see what you can supplement it with.

[Hunter's Moon]

What do you mean all three levels? :confused: You don't need them all, at least not now, especially if money is tight. First one, then you'll see.

 

If we're talking about Progetto Italiano, you need #1 and maybe #2. Each book contains a lot more than it seems at the first glance, basically the entire grammar (without the most tricky nuances, naturally) is covered in #1 and #2, the last part is for people who speak the language, it's only texts with vocabulary, comprehension and cultural topics. I know some people who worked with #1 only for a full year or more, the textbooks are tiny, but dense, they contain a lot.

 

I'm not sure what the accompanying workbooks are like, but if they come without an answer key (they might, since they're used in schools too in Europe), I'll help you in case of a doubt, or need to check, etc. :)

 

Without a textbook, hardly, I agree. But there are more options. There are sites like this which can be a great aid. You have easy texts with vocabulary (it's all in Italian though, but you can easily google things you need in English, there are lots of online dictionaries), you can listen to dialogues, etc.

Next thing you can try is studying Italian via a field you're interested in (History, right?) - this is for example an article about a daily life in Renaissance and the figure of a mother. You have bunch of such sites (this one has lots of topics on Italian history) online, just just need to google something like "rinascimento" or whatever you're interested in, get a dictionary, and start working your way through the texts, while you study grammar at the same time. That way, if nothing else, at least you'll get some reading knowledge of the language that you might use later.

 

Workbooks are in any case a good idea, make sure you have a steady progress in grammar, and then see what you can supplement it with.

 

Thank you :)

 

We're going to use workbooks and then use supplements from the library when needed. I also thought I would try a bit of children's literature from Italy. :)

 

Thank you for the advice and the site!