Grammar...how does this help in a practical way?

[msjones]

We just finished a year of Winston Grammar (Basic Level). My 10 year-old son learned a lot and did very well -- even enjoyed it. He can label those sentences just about perfectly almost every time.

 

I enjoyed teaching it to him. It was a great review for me. I hadn't thought about appositives or predicate nominatives for years and years.

 

So, this was a positive experience. But, now what? I guess we'll go on to the next level, but I'm not sure I see the practicality of it. Is grammar a 'joy-in-the-journey' kind of thing? Was the value simply in doing all that thinking and talking about our language?

 

If you emphasize grammar, can you help me understand why? (By grammar, I mean identifying parts of speech -- not punctuation, capitalization, and other mechanics of writing.)

 

I know SWB says it will improve writing, but I'm not sure I see that. My son writes clearly, confidently, correctly (usually;)), but I see that as the result of the hours and hours of reading he does -- not from diagramming sentences.

 

So, grammar fans, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

[8filltheheart]

Well, in our household, grammar is the language of writing instruction for all conversations not directly linked to content. When we do proofreading and editing, we discuss in terms of grammar. For example, I might comment that they need to vary sentence structure b/c they began too many sentences with an introductory adverbial clause or phrase, etc. or they need to proofread for verb tense or re-write sentences into active voice, etc. Even though my kids do know grammar and speak properly for the most part, we do have bad habits in speaking that creep into their writing. For example, in speaking they might say, "Can I have a bigger piece than her?" whereas in writing I expect them to write more formally, "May I have a larger piece than she?" (the latter of which is correct and the former incorrect)

 

Also, a solid grammar background makes the rules for punctuation clearer. Most comma rules are easy to apply if you understand the logic of the grammar behind the rule.

[msjones]

Good points.

 

I see that you have some older kids, so maybe the benefit will show up as his writing becomes more formal and complex.

[Carol in Cal.]

One is that it's easier to write correctly if you know the actual rules rather than always relying on what 'sounds right'. So, for instance, grammar rules show me how to figure out what pronouns are proper, and which form of 'tricky' verbs such as lie or lay to use.

 

Another is that it is tremendously helpful in learning many foreign languages. I am eternally grateful that I knew basic grammar before studying German, because the changes in pronouns and adjective endings with usage within the sentence would have been impossible to learn without knowing grammar already.

 

Most importantly in our family this minute is the fact that my DD is a pretty good writer, so I can compliment and assist her in her writing and revising much more effectively because I can use grammar terms in discussion with her. I can tell her that I love her use of repetitive apositive nouns, that I think that she needs to consider whether a change of tense is the most effective way to make her case, or that her placement of adverbs in a particular sentence has really given her writing a quaint feel--and she knows exactly what I'm talking about. It's awesome, and truly helpful.

[msjones]

One is that it's easier to write correctly if you know the actual rules rather than always relying on what 'sounds right'. So, for instance, grammar rules show me how to figure out what pronouns are proper, and which form of 'tricky' verbs such as lie or lay to use.

 

 

 

I could use a review of all those tricky verbs myself! I was hoping to find some of that in teaching grammar this year.

 

The program we used (Winston Grammar) didn't teach that sort of thing; it just taught parts of speech and labeling them in a sentence. It taught that thoroughly and painlessly, so that was great.

 

This was just the 'Basic' level, so maybe I should just press on...

 

Or maybe someone can suggest a program that does focus on the rules of language rather than just parts of speech.

[Allearia]

I've improved my writing/editing a lot since learning grammar with my son, does that count :tongue_smilie:

 

I was always pretty good at just being able to tell by how a sentence sounded, that something was wrong, and to fix it. I never had any issues with grammar in any papers throughout school or college, and in fact work in editing technical documents.

 

But being able to label parts of a sentence, in language, helps me be sure I am correct. I think it helps me pick up some subtle things I hadn't noticed before. We really haven't gotten very far in diagramming sentences, and my son is now moving ahead of me with grammar in Latin so we haven't done FLL for a while, but I'm convinced that it is very beneficial. Instead of going by how things sound in my head - while admittedly it served me very well for 30 years - I can talk about and more easily diagnose issues.

 

p.s. please don't take this post as an example of how grammar helps... or you may decide to never study grammar again :tongue_smilie:

[Caraway]

I never had grammar as a kid - thank you whole language. I have discovered that my lack of understanding is most troublesome when trying to learn a foreign language. Latin has been impossible without going back to some of the English grammar.

 

It could also help you be a really good Mad Libs player. :tongue_smilie:

[LizzyBee]

When I was in school, our 7th and 8th grade English classes were 90% grammar, and throughout high school and college, we were graded down for grammar errors in our papers. When grammar is taught well, it becomes automatic and we may not always be aware of how we're using it. I don't consciously think a lot about grammar while I write. But when I read magazines and books, it becomes obvious that the younger generation has not been taught grammar. When I can't stand to finish reading an article or book because the grammar is atrocious, I am very thankful that I learned grammar. Grammar is a high priority in our homeschool.

[cschnee]

If you know the rules of grammar, you can turn it around and NOT use the rules to write totally different, far out, what ever you want, prose and poems. Get what I mean?

[ekarl2]

Knowing just the parts of speech gets you almost nothing. They are a stepping stone to advanced grammar, the phrases and clauses. It is these parts of a sentence upon which the rules of punctuation and usage are based. Mastering the rules of punctuation and usage is your goal, not the actual learning of the parts of speech. The POS are a means to an end. Diagraming is the same. It's the only way I know of to truly master advanced grammar. We shouldn't teach diagraming as an end; it's not the goal. Using it to master advanced grammar and then using that knowledge to master the punctuation and usage rules is your end game.

[kmacnchs]

My degrees are in languages (Spanish & English) in which grammar plays a large part. So for me, it's fun (esp. diagramming)! But as a person who lives in the country in the South, my dh and I focus on grammar with our kids a lot (and ours are young).

 

I love the people around me but they sound stupid when they speak (and they're not!). It helps you in your writing for college but in the outside world, I would like to think it helps you in finding a job (it's important to at least sound like you know what you are talking about in job interviews :D).

 

A friend of mine gets upset with me when I correct her grammar (I don't anymore) but then she wonders why the only part of end of grade testing her children score poorly on is the grammar part (and they do Shurley Grammar!). I personally do not think working on a great grammar program will help your children unless you as the teacher and as a family make it important in everyday life.

 

off the soap box now...