Please help ADVICE NEEDED!!!

[thowell]

As some of you may know my sdd 11 recently started HS with us. She was having a really hard time in PS so her Mom decided to give it a try. While I feel we are making slow improvement in some areas, (math, handwriting) others she just doesn't seem to get. I can't understand what is going on. Example we have been studying the American Revolution for a few weeks now. We have watched films, read books, both historical and fictional historical, we have done projects and made lapbooks. We also use Abeka 4 history as our spring board. So today I was reading back through the chapter every few pages there are comprehension checks. She can't answer any of the questions!!! Even dd6 can answer some and dd9 knows them all. The same thing happens in Bible. We read the passages from the bible, we discuss them and I break them down so they understand the info. then we have worksheets that ask the questions. Sdd11 never gets any of the answers!!! I don't know if she just isn't paying attention or if something is wrong. What do I do????? Any advice or ideas? I am at a loss.

[melissel]

Well, I haven't BTDT with a kid that age, but the first thing that pops into my mind was some deschooling time. Did she have any kind of break between leaving PS and starting to HS? Often, kids coming from PS--especially those who were having a hard time--need some deschooling time to rest their brains and recover some self-esteem before setting their minds back to schoolwork. Do you think she might benefit from that?

 

And :grouphug: You're doing a very loving thing for both her and your sister. Give her some time to settle in.

[AHASRADA]

Has this child (I assume your step-daughter?), had any testing done for learning difficulties?

 

Not to jump to conclusions, but she could have attention issues, and is therefore not paying attention when you cover the material. She could also have working memory deficits or auditory/language processing issues, so the words either don't stick, or do not completely register in the 1st place.

 

My dd10 has a terrible memory for anything she hasn't seen or experienced. She will remember the gist of a story, but any factual information, names, etc. will be out the window within minutes (OK, seconds). Asking her a question like "Who was the 1st president of the US?" or "Where did the pilgrims land?" would be met with a blank stare, since it involves recalling proper names. With a little prodding, she would likely answer the 1st ? with "the cherry tree guy with the wig" and the 2nd by pointing to Massachusetts on a map. Interactive online visual activities, as well as anything on TV/DVD are what this child retains the best. Still no names, but much more info. and details. I only ask her to remember the most important names and facts, which must be done by constant repetition over time.

 

Perhaps this child has different issues at play, including adjusting to homeschooling. I just wanted to bring up the topic of a learning difference or simply difference in learning style that may be at work. Try using more interactive/audio-visual resources, as well as narration instead of expecting her to answer specific questions. This way, you will know what she actually did retain, and see where the gaps are. Perhaps it is simply the way the questions are worded (including or asking for specifics she can't recall) that are the stumbling block.

 

HTH,

[Guest]

Has this child (I assume your step-daughter?), had any testing done for learning difficulties?

 

Not to jump to conclusions, but she could have attention issues, and is therefore not paying attention when you cover the material. She could also have working memory deficits or auditory/language processing issues, so the words either don't stick, or do not completely register in the 1st place.

 

My dd10 has a terrible memory for anything she hasn't seen or experienced. She will remember the gist of a story, but any factual information, names, etc. will be out the window within minutes (OK, seconds). Asking her a question like "Who was the 1st president of the US?" or "Where did the pilgrims land?" would be met with a blank stare, since it involves recalling proper names. With a little prodding, she would likely answer the 1st ? with "the cherry tree guy with the wig" and the 2nd by pointing to Massachusetts on a map. Interactive online visual activities, as well as anything on TV/DVD are what this child retains the best. Still no names, but much more info. and details. I only ask her to remember the most important names and facts, which must be done by constant repetition over time.

 

Perhaps this child has different issues at play, including adjusting to homeschooling. I just wanted to bring up the topic of a learning difference or simply difference in learning style that may be at work. Try using more interactive/audio-visual resources, as well as narration instead of expecting her to answer specific questions. This way, you will know what she actually did retain, and see where the gaps are. Perhaps it is simply the way the questions are worded (including or asking for specifics she can't recall) that are the stumbling block.

 

HTH,

 

This is what came to my mind, also. I had a child like this when I taught in a sixth-grade co-op. I began using tactile, visual methods for what we were learning and she made amazing leaps in comprehension. Just the opposite of my child, who is totally auditory.

 

One other thought: the girl in the co-op I mentioned still needed to be physically active when she was learning, at age eleven. Have you tried seeing whether your sdd likes to sit on a bouncy ball while listening, or do something with her hands? Some kids need to be doing while listening. Others need to be seeing and handling. Try asking her to draw instead of narrate what she's learned and see what happens. As the other poster said, this will at least let you know whether there's a learning style difference, or whether it is something deeper.

[Evergreen Academy]

I have 2 Ds who displayed the same type of learning you describe - namely, none at all from things I've read aloud. We learned last year that one Ds has a hearing loss, and a hearing aid has helped tremendously. Still, he is mostly a hands-on learner and needs to read/write things himself to remember them (this would be me too!!!). Littlest Ds6 has me stumped - I'm thinking he has auditory processing issues. He can only digest very small amounts of information read to him, and we are working to increase this slowly. He does best with a simple workbook approach, though that's not my favorite teaching style - seems to work for him as we build up his tolerance and attention to auditory things.

 

It occurs to me that if Sdd has been having learning issues in school, her learning may well be at a much lower level than her grade level. Maybe scale back a bit, try her with lit/reading/history at a simpler level than you might think she should have - maybe really simplify to see where she is in her learning, and let her adjust to being homeschooled. She may really be able to enjoy some much simpler things, and not realize that she is learning in the process.

Blessings to you,

Aimee

mom to 6 great kids ages 6-19, schooling grades 1, 3, 3 and 6

[Amy Jo]

I am working on Visualizing & Verbalizing with my oldest. He could only tell me the last phrase I had read. We had him evaluated by a developmental optomitrist (due to issues reading) and were advised that he doesn't think in pictures. You might check the symptoms listed for IdeaChain, a similar program to V/V.

[thowell]

Thank you for the replies and sadly this is exactly what I have been thinking. When sdd 11 was in K in PS she was held back. She had made no progress at all. I tried to work with her after shool and nothing seemed to work. Her mom and dh had the school test her and while I don't remember all the results, they said she was just above the level that would classify her with a LD. That she had poor processing speed and seemed unable to connect information in her mind and translate it back to you. We placed her in a small private school where they used Abeka videos and she begin to make real improvement through 2nd grade. Her mom moved and placed her back in PS. She has since had problems. When I spoke with her today she tells me that she can't paint a mental picture in her mind about things we read about. She can't seem to retain information only a few seconds after it is read. And yes I would say she is behind her grade level in most of her subjects. While she can read well her comprehension level is around 2nd-3rd grade. Her spelling is about the same. Math is a struggle although she is making slow progress using BJU. So knowing all of this how do I teach her. They watched the Liberty Kids series for this part of history and she still had little retention. She does seem to do better with worksheets. Example, she is still trying to memorize her times tables. If I quiz her out loud she will miss most of them. If I hand her a worksheet to fill out she will make 100%. What does this mean. What type of curriculum should I use? Oh, and to answer another question she is a very quiet and (for a lack of a better word) still child.

[Evergreen Academy]

Can you have her tested by a Developmental Pediatrician? That person would likely be more qualified than the school district to test for specific issues, like auditory processing. I know there are tapes designed to help with listening comprehension, but I can't recall the name. Anyone?

 

I have been using Writing With Ease with my ds6; I've actually had to put it aside for a while because even repeating back details from a paragraph I'd just read to him was too much for him...and maddening for me LOL! He's almost 7 now and doing better, but I've actually looked at WWE as a type of therapy, to train him to listen for detail. OH, and if I tell him to focus, that is a sure fire way to get him to shut down his brain; he does better with a chunk of playdough or on his wiggle-seat (exercise disc on his chair) where he can move a bit. Perhaps Sdd could use something like WWE - don't be worried about starting at a lower level, she may need it - just use your own paper instead of the big lines given for copywork.

 

We are using CLE math for my ds9 with auditory issues; he has similar problems with math and the spiral nature is helpful and the first program he's doing really well with (he didn't do well with Horizons or BJU). I'm considering using CLE LA for him, hoping the spiral, workbook format might make something stick (nothing we've worked on since 1st grade for grammar has stuck (though he writes beautifully) - I'm now trying again to teach him nouns and pronouns and verbs along with ds6 in FLL, and doubt it will be any more successful this time! If you do look at CLE, remember they run AT LEAST a year ahead, don't worry!

 

I've also heard good things about cheap little workbooks called Climbing to Good English. They sell them at Rainbow Resources and I'm considering buying some for these two to give a try over the summer - they are less than $4 each and I've heard they've helped a child with similar issues.

 

I would concentrate on helping her get on target in reading, math and writing. In terms of history, I'd just suggest that for now, perhaps lower your expectations. Read some D'Aulaire books or other colorful books about the time-period you're studying. Find some things at a lower level for her to read about the time period. Will she play, pretend or act things out? Would she like to bake something related to the time period? Would she just enjoy helping in the kitchen and learning some things that way?

Blessings,

Aimee

mom to 6 great kids, ages 6-19, schooling grades 1, 3, 3 and 6

[ElizabethB]

My current group of students are ALL like that, they don't learn unless they're doing a worksheet, they can't focus even when they try (and they've started trying!) They are a product of inner-ctiy Los Angeles schools. I've had to figure out worksheets for them, I only have a few, I'm not very workbooky! They were driving me crazy for a while until I figured out they needed workbook type activities. After a bit of that, some of the students can listen one on one, but they still don't/can't listen in groups. They work very hard when given a concrete task and do learn from that.

 

My group of inner-city Little Rock, AR students could listen in short bursts, 10 minutes was their maximum, they did best in cycles of 2 -5 minutes of teaching and a few minutes of small group work. They also did good with choral oral spelling, these new students don't.

 

You might have to do workbooks and hands on things for a while and work on incrementally building up listening skills.

[amtmcm]

My dd10 has a terrible memory for anything she hasn't seen or experienced. She will remember the gist of a story, but any factual information, names, etc. will be out the window within minutes (OK, seconds). Asking her a question like "Who was the 1st president of the US?" or "Where did the pilgrims land?" would be met with a blank stare, since it involves recalling proper names. With a little prodding, she would likely answer the 1st ? with "the cherry tree guy with the wig" and the 2nd by pointing to Massachusetts on a map. Interactive online visual activities, as well as anything on TV/DVD are what this child retains the best. Still no names, but much more info. and details. I only ask her to remember the most important names and facts, which must be done by constant repetition over time.

 

 

 

This could have been written about my DD10 - she's exactly the same way.

 

Perhaps this child has different issues at play, including adjusting to homeschooling. I just wanted to bring up the topic of a learning difference or simply difference in learning style that may be at work. Try using more interactive/audio-visual resources, as well as narration instead of expecting her to answer specific questions. This way, you will know what she actually did retain, and see where the gaps are. Perhaps it is simply the way the questions are worded (including or asking for specifics she can't recall) that are the stumbling block.

 

HTH,

 

My DD10 was having trouble with retention in Private Christian School. When we started homeschooling her this year (I was previously HS DD13), my goal was for her to learn that Texas is a state within the country of the US within the continent of North America. I tried puzzle maps, play dough globes, living books, nesting dolls (state, in a country, in a continent), etc. and she just didn't get it. I thought maybe computer based learning would work with her learning style so I bought her SOS Hist & Geo 4. Somewhere along the way it started clicking. By midway through the year she could name all of the continents, oceans and many complicated geography terms. I'm not sure exactly what made the difference, but I think she needed to adjust to someone actually holding her accountable for learning the material as opposed to just guessing and getting by.

 

Once we met our goal of having a grasp on World Geography we switched to MOH and it's been going fine (with some prompting as noted above). I'm not sure how long you've been working with your SDD, but it may just take some time to adjust. I also highly concur with the other posters who suggest finding her learning style and teaching to it. It sounds like you're already trying to do that. If you can find her best learning style, I might stick with that method for a little while - trying too many different methods concurrently may give her information overload. Hang in there, it sounds like you're doing a great job.

[lionfamily1999]

I am convinced this is one of the things that narration, dictation and copywork play a role. I am terrible at this sort of thing. I can read and reread books, because I will forget them quickly, ESPECIALLY when I start to read them again. Ds, however, has developed a steel trap for this sort of information.

 

Imo, I would add narration, at the very least, to her history classes. Having her put it in her own words will make it more meaningful (imo). Also, she could read her own notes and that will help her remember the rest of it.

 

hth.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

When you read to her, do you do it all at once then have her narrate to you? If you are slow it down, to paragraph by paragraph or even sentence by sentence if you need to. Read her a paragraph, have her re-tell you what you told her, then talk about it. It will take more time, but that *should* help with retention! (Unless there is a SERIOUS LD- but you said not quite to LD scores, right?)

 

See if that helps! Or maybe go to something other than abeka. My dd didnt do well with Abeka but is doing amazing with BJU Heritage Studies-- you can find those cheap used. Hope this helps!

 

Then I would have her draw a picture, write a comic strip, a poem, song, whatever appeals to her about what she learned and hopefully that will help to cement it into her!

[StephanieZ]

I, too, was thinking of trying narration.

 

One paragraph, or maybe up to one page, at a time. Baby steps. . .

[thowell]

When you read to her, do you do it all at once then have her narrate to you? If you are slow it down, to paragraph by paragraph or even sentence by sentence if you need to. Read her a paragraph, have her re-tell you what you told her, then talk about it. It will take more time, but that *should* help with retention! (Unless there is a SERIOUS LD- but you said not quite to LD scores, right?)

 

See if that helps! Or maybe go to something other than abeka. My dd didnt do well with Abeka but is doing amazing with BJU Heritage Studies-- you can find those cheap used. Hope this helps!

 

Then I would have her draw a picture, write a comic strip, a poem, song, whatever appeals to her about what she learned and hopefully that will help to cement it into her!

 

 

Yes, I agree..... I was reading way to mcuh because my other kids can handle that and yes Abeka is boring but she has this problem with whatever we use.

[thowell]

This week I tried something new with her. Before we read The Winter of The Red Snow we discussed what was happening so far. We talked about the setting, the characters, and the plot. Then while I read I had the kids draw a picture of what I was reading. Can I just say that I was blown away by the amount of retention and comprehension sdd11 showed! She even remembered tiny details. I am slowly discovering tricks that work well with her. I have decided to go with Konos next year. It seems if it will be perfect I Hope!! I am slowing down the length of what I read before she gives narration and trying to work on dictation with her.

[wy_kid_wrangler04]

This week I tried something new with her. Before we read The Winter of The Red Snow we discussed what was happening so far. We talked about the setting, the characters, and the plot. Then while I read I had the kids draw a picture of what I was reading. Can I just say that I was blown away by the amount of retention and comprehension sdd11 showed! She even remembered tiny details. I am slowly discovering tricks that work well with her. I have decided to go with Konos next year. It seems if it will be perfect I Hope!! I am slowing down the length of what I read before she gives narration and trying to work on dictation with her.

 

 

Sounds good! It may take time, but you WILL get there! Sounds like you found a good way to go about the read alouds with her, talking about it first, then continuing! :grouphug: Keep up the good work, you WILL see positive results!!!

[ElizabethB]

This week I tried something new with her. Before we read The Winter of The Red Snow we discussed what was happening so far. We talked about the setting, the characters, and the plot. Then while I read I had the kids draw a picture of what I was reading. Can I just say that I was blown away by the amount of retention and comprehension sdd11 showed! She even remembered tiny details. I am slowly discovering tricks that work well with her. I have decided to go with Konos next year. It seems if it will be perfect I Hope!! I am slowing down the length of what I read before she gives narration and trying to work on dictation with her.

:party:

 

It's great when you find something that works!

 

My daughter listened better and longer in K if she was drawing while listening, but it doesn't make a difference now or actually seems to distract her a bit.