First Form Latin for 9th?

[LisaC]

Does anyone have any thoughts on using Memoria's First Form Latin for 9th grade?

[PollyOR]

Does your 9th grader have any experience with Latin?

[Heather in VA]

Well it depends. It would not be babyish or make her feel like she's using a 'kid' program, but it would not be enough Latin to constitute Latin 1 as a full language credit. So depending on how many Latin credits you want, you could use First Form (and then Second etc) but not one credit per year - maybe 1/2 per year and end up with 2 or 3 credits.

 

Heather

[LisaC]

Does your 9th grader have any experience with Latin?

 

Yes; I think she can handle the material, I just wondered if it would qualify as a high-school level course.

[LisaC]

Well it depends. It would not be babyish or make her feel like she's using a 'kid' program, but it would not be enough Latin to constitute Latin 1 as a full language credit. So depending on how many Latin credits you want, you could use First Form (and then Second etc) but not one credit per year - maybe 1/2 per year and end up with 2 or 3 credits.

 

Heather

 

What do you think would be a good alternative?

[PollyOR]

Oh Lisa, I wasn't thinking that she couldn't do it. My thought was that it might not last her a year if she already had experience with Latin. I'm on the First Form Yahoo group and I believe the publisher considers it one credit. I'll see if I can find the info for you.

[rwjx2khsmj]

I think it's a great intro Latin course. Definitely wouldn't take the full year but would get a good start to build on.

[silliness7]

Oh Lisa, I wasn't thinking that she couldn't do it. My thought was that it might not last her a year if she already had experience with Latin. I'm on the First Form Yahoo group and I believe the publisher considers it one credit. I'll see if I can find the info for you.

 

It's my understanding that MP took Henle I which is the first year of Latin and broken it into 4 easy chunks...or at least that's the plan. 1st and 2nd forms are the only ones available so far. So I was thinking that a credit couldn't be given until all four forms were completed. The idea is for younger kids to get a head start on Latin. My 8th grader will be in 2nd form next year so I would love to know if I can start giving high school credit.

[PollyOR]

First Form Latin message #423

 

The four forms will cover the Latin grammar in Henle 1 and Henle 2. If you want to read Caesar, you will want to do the translation portions of Henle 1 and Henle 2. (I'm paraphrasing to the best of my knowledge, so you may want to join the group to read the original)

[PollyOR]

message #255

 

"Each Form in the series is considered a 1-year course and would be equivalent to 1 high school credit."

[LisaC]

Oh Lisa, I wasn't thinking that she couldn't do it. My thought was that it might not last her a year if she already had experience with Latin. I'm on the First Form Yahoo group and I believe the publisher considers it one credit. I'll see if I can find the info for you.

 

Hi Polly,

I didn't think at all that you were questioning her ability to do the work--if anything, I was the one taking it into consideration :) Thanks so much for looking into it for me. I just don't want to start a program that I think is grade level, only to find out too late that it is not. Thanks, again, for your help :)

[Gratia271]

You might want to contact MP regarding your question. We have used Henle and the Form series. I used the Form series this year with my young children. One significant difference is the lack of translation work in the Form series compared to Henle. Henle requires reading and translation early on, albeit relatively simple work at the outset. On the other hand, First Form and what I have used with Second Form (beta) does not have the same focus. It is a wonderful program and does an outstanding job with grammar instruction, but it is not the same level of rigor as Henle. If I recall correctly from speaking to MP earlier this year, I believe they said that they use FF content and SF content then transition to Henle at HLS.

[Heather in VA]

message #255

 

"Each Form in the series is considered a 1-year course and would be equivalent to 1 high school credit."

 

I'm just confused about how that can be. My understanding is that First - Fourth Form will cover Latin grammar. Typically that's done in 2 years of high school Latin.

 

Heather

[Gratia271]

That is my understanding as well. It typically is covered in 2 years. Realizing that state standards vary, I don't believe you could reasonably give more than 2 years of HS credit for the entire form series.

[Colleen in NS]

Does anyone have any thoughts on using Memoria's First Form Latin for 9th grade?

 

The four forms will cover the Latin grammar in Henle 1 and Henle 2.

 

"Each Form in the series is considered a 1-year course and would be equivalent to 1 high school credit."

 

Really?? I first understood that First to Fourth was meant to cover Henle 1. Now it's apparently the grammar of Henle 1 and 2, yet they're saying you can give four high school credits for First to Fourth? I wonder why, esp. if the Henle 1 and 2 translation exercises aren't included.

 

Lisa C, I looked into using First Form before we started Henle 1 this past year, but decided against it because I don't like to start a series that isn't finished being written yet, in case it's not done when I want to start the next level. So, I opted for straight Henle with the MP study guides. I've since made up my own weekly study routine for Henle, after seeing the pattern in the study guides, and it's working out pretty well. We can go faster or slower, and I figure we'll end up accumulating the same amount of knowledge in 4 years that First to Fourth seems to want to encompass, PLUS the translation exercises.

 

hth

[Gratia271]

I have also designed my own structure/pace for Henle and will be using that in lieu of the Form series.

[Renee in NC]

Is the vocabulary similar in both the Form series and Henle? I was wondering if you did the Form books (all 4) and the translation work in Henle 1 and 2, would that give you 2 credits of Latin?

[Gratia271]

The entire book of Henle I covers 2 years of HS Latin for most state standards. Henle's 2nd book is part review of Units 8-14 of Henle I, and the remainder is translation of Julius Caesar. Typically, third year and beyond is reading, translation and writing.

[PollyOR]

I appreciate all the input in this thread. :thumbup1:

 

I own both Henle 1 w/the Memoria Press Guides and First Form. I use First Form for several reasons. I think Henle would seem overwhelming to dd, she isn't motivated, and First Form has an excellent layout. Plus, it is nice to have the DVDs and CDs since I know less Latin than the kids do. The original plan was to use Henle, unfortunately I can't seem to light a fire under this kid.

[Renee in NC]

The entire book of Henle I covers 2 years of HS Latin for most state standards. Henle's 2nd book is part review of Units 8-14 of Henle I, and the remainder is translation of Julius Caesar. Typically, third year and beyond is reading, translation and writing.

 

It seems that from the (brief) search through various high school syllabi for Latin III, you are correct.

 

So, First Form 1-4 with translation from Henle would cover Latin I-III?

[LisaC]

Thank you all so much for your wisdom and input--this has been a tremendous help! :)

[Gratia271]

It seems that from the (brief) search through various high school syllabi for Latin III, you are correct.

 

So, First Form 1-4 with translation from Henle would cover Latin I-III?

 

If the Henle II book is included, it should constitute three years of HS level work.

[Zee]

We are currently using FFL. We just started a bit after the first of the year so we aren't very far in and my plan is to finish it by the end of 8th grade (we're going to go a bit slower with this first book to allow time for the publishing to work with my plans). When I spoke to Memoria Press they told me that First thru Fourth Form Latin will cover all the grammar in Henle I. They told me that after completing all four forms books, we would then move into Henle II. My plan (Lord willing) is to do 2nd and 3rd Form Latin in 9th grade. I will give .5 credit for each book, so one credit for the 9th grade year. We'll hopefully do 4th year Latin in 10th and move into the Henle II book for the 2nd half of the year. I'm planning to give one credit for that also. We'll see after that what we do. If I change this sequence, it would probably only be to add some of the reading from Henle I when we do 2-4th Form. We'll see. I have to get through First Form first. :lol:

 

So far, I love this book. We have a little LFC under our belt and this is making things solidify and stick. The parsing is really helping us a lot. I can see how if you get this stuff down and out of the way, then you'll have a much easier time with the reading.

 

I would have liked to have started with Henle, but wasn't confident enough. I like it much better than LFC because of the grammar practice. I pray all goes well with the rest of Memoria's series. I really like FFL, so far. We are using the DVD's, also. I'm not sure I'd need them, but I definitely feel they are beneficial, so I hope the other levels will have DVD's also. :)

[crazyforlatin]

My 5-year old has been using Henle, but after reading a couple of other threads relating to First Form Latin, should I have done FFL first? I didn't know about FFL until today. I didn't like Latina Christiana because after finishing Getting Started with Latin and translating more than 1000 Latin sentences, we were used to this format of learning and Henle is similar (although font is small, so I have to type out all the exercises). We like Henle because we translate from Latin to English and back, which I think is great for really understanding Latin. Is FLL similar in this way to Henle? Or should we continue with Henle if DD is able to do the work?

 

One thing I don't like about Henle (we are still studying only the 3rd declension nouns but after the unit on conjugations, it won't matter anymore), is that part of a conjugated verb is included in the vocabulary just for the sake of translating sentences - it's something that Ms. Bauer doesn't like - whole to parts instruction.

 

Oops, I just saw the title of this thread..., but still wondering whether FLL should be used before Henle. Thank you.

Edited April 30, 2010 by crazyforlatin

[wapiti]

My 5-year old has been using Henle, but after reading a couple of other threads relating to First Form Latin, should I have done FFL first? I didn't know about FFL until today. I didn't like Latina Christiana because after finishing Getting Started with Latin and translating more than 1000 Latin sentences, we were used to this format of learning and Henle is similar (although font is small, so I have to type out all the exercises). We like Henle because we translate from Latin to English and back, which I think is great for really understanding Latin. Is FLL similar in this way to Henle? Or should we continue with Henle if DD is able to do the work?

 

One thing I don't like about Henle (we are still studying only the 3rd declension nouns but after the unit on conjugations, it won't matter anymore), is that part of a conjugated verb is included in the vocabulary just for the sake of translating sentences - it's something that Ms. Bauer doesn't like - whole to parts instruction.

 

Oops, I just saw the title of this thread..., but still wondering whether FLL should be used before Henle. Thank you.

 

Thanks for posting this! We're doing Getting Started With Latin now (7 y.o.s and 9 y.o.) and planning to move on to Henle when we're finished. It's good to know someone else has done it that way. Did you find that doing GSWL first makes the Henle any "easier" than it otherwise might be, for such a young student?

[crazyforlatin]

Did you find that doing GSWL first makes the Henle any "easier" than it otherwise might be, for such a young student?

 

Did your kids like the format of GSWL? If yes, then they should like Henle. However, Henle has some mature topics (e.g. translating sentences involving killing of people, tribes, Gauls, etc.), small font, more Catholic-oriented (although you could skip those translations if it is problem) and lots of exercises, although some are labeled essential for the student's convenience. But I'm still continuing with it even though DD is 5. There are a lot of practice questions, very similar to GSWL, but more difficult, but the transition was easy. If it were not for GSWL, we would have had a much more difficult time, but Henle is almost exactly what I was hoping for and challenging enough for DD. If my budget were larger, I would have looked at more Latin books (e.g. Gunnison), but I had to choose one immediately after we finished GSWL, and given that DD still loves Latin, it must be just challenging enough but not overwhelming. I bought Latina Christiana (as well as Minimus and Prima Latina) but the format is different and not enough practice sentences are provided. That's why I was wondering if FLL is different from the previous MP books, because if it is, I may have tried FLL first.

 

By the way, I also bought MP's Study Guide that goes with Henle 1, but I haven't followed the schedule and I haven't done most of the recommended activities. It's helpful nonetheless because it provides answers (there is a Henle answer book that is cheaper, but I didn't find out about this until I purchased the Study Guide) and suggestions for activities.

[wapiti]

Did your kids like the format of GSWL? If yes, then they should like Henle. However, Henle has some mature topics (e.g. translating sentences involving killing of people, tribes, Gauls, etc.), small font, more Catholic-oriented (although you could skip those translations if it is problem) and lots of exercises, although some are labeled essential for the student's convenience. But I'm still continuing with it even though DD is 5. There are a lot of practice questions, very similar to GSWL, but more difficult, but the transition was easy. If it were not for GSWL, we would have had a much more difficult time, but Henle is almost exactly what I was hoping for and challenging enough for DD. If my budget were larger, I would have looked at more Latin books (e.g. Gunnison), but I had to choose one immediately after we finished GSWL, and given that DD still loves Latin, it must be just challenging enough but not overwhelming. I bought Latina Christiana (as well as Minimus and Prima Latina) but the format is different and not enough practice sentences are provided. That's why I was wondering if FLL is different from the previous MP books, because if it is, I may have tried FLL first.

 

By the way, I also bought MP's Study Guide that goes with Henle 1, but I haven't followed the schedule and I haven't done most of the recommended activities. It's helpful nonetheless because it provides answers (there is a Henle answer book that is cheaper, but I didn't find out about this until I purchased the Study Guide) and suggestions for activities.

 

Thanks! It sounds like I made the right choice for us with Henle. I love love love the format of GSWL, and the kids enjoy it, though it definitely challenges them, and I'm trying to commit to getting at least some Latin done every day (we're afterschooling, and some days we just don't have the time). When too many days go by in between lessons, they forget everything, which makes it so much harder than it needs to be.

 

As for the killing in Henle, perhaps that will finally hook ds7's interest, LOL. Catholic no problem (we are; indeed I remember my high school Latin teacher, a 70 y.o. nun in a wheelchair with MS, becoming *very* enthusiastic while translating bloody battle scenes, complete with hand gestures :lol:).

[crazyforlatin]

As for the killing in Henle, perhaps that will finally hook ds7's interest, LOL. Catholic no problem (we are; indeed I remember my high school Latin teacher, a 70 y.o. nun in a wheelchair with MS, becoming *very* enthusiastic while translating bloody battle scenes, complete with hand gestures :lol:).

 

:lol:

 

I emailed Mr. Linney about writing Part 2, because we loved it so much, but he referred me to Gunnison. If the library carried the book, I would have liked to take a look, and $15 at Amazon is not too bad, but it's still $15, and my impression is Gunnison is more narrow in its coverage, so maybe 100 pages into Henle, I might consider it so that we can read Caesar's Gallic Wars (semi-joking). I don't know whether Henle 1 would prepare us for it as well.

[wapiti]

:lol:

 

I emailed Mr. Linney about writing Part 2, because we loved it so much, but he referred me to Gunnison. If the library carried the book, I would have liked to take a look, and $15 at Amazon is not too bad, but it's still $15, and my impression is Gunnison is more narrow in its coverage, so maybe 100 pages into Henle, I might consider it so that we can read Caesar's Gallic Wars (semi-joking). I don't know whether Henle 1 would prepare us for it as well.

 

I have the Gunnison (bought it new and ds4 and ds2 promptly thought it would be fun to play with in the sink). Even though my Henle hasn't arrived yet, I think I like it better than the Gunnison, from what I saw in the Amazon preview. And I have no interest, at least at the moment, in Linney's audio files anyway.

 

By the way, I think it was Caesar's Gallic Wars that my teacher enjoyed so thoroughly :).