Is MCT as rigorous as R&S English?

[butterfly113]

We have used R&S English 2 through 4. While we like it, it does seem to get repetitious. Occasionally I'll bring up topics from earlier chapters, and ds seems to remember most of it, yet sometimes gives me that 'blank' look! :001_huh: We review and the light bulb comes on! :lol:

 

I have looked and looked at MCT. I have even ordered the first level. In looking through the books, I can see 'why' many love it, because it is different. Completely different, almost like something new and fresh. Yet after time, does this feeling stay the same? Or does the novelty wear off. (No tomoatoes please!) AND... Is it as rigorous as R&S???

[radiobrain]

I haven't found it to wear off. It does mutate a bit, becomes less whimsical and more meaty. However it is very rigorous, but in a different way than you might think. It has so much depth. Each level gets progressively more intense, and by the 4th level you should be doing 5 academic essays per year, and some other truly intense stuff.

 

It is written in a way that encourages an internal memory of the subject taught. They kids really retain it, for several reasons. I need to get my kids up, so that's all I can do...

 

someone else can add something, I am sure!

[catz]

Part of the reason it works really well for my own HG-PG kid is it's not repetitious. It works great for whole picture learners. And many of the exercises are open ended and creative. I does take big leaps between levels and is designed to be highly rigorous. We haven't done the higher levels, but I've previewed them and I'm impressed with what I see. I don't think rigor = repetition, and I know for my own particular kid repetition = disaster. I know some people supplement them with other programs. I don't necessarily think it is for necessarily a good fit for everyone. So if it's not a fit for you, go ahead and throw some tomatoes. :)

[KS_]

I know some people supplement them with other programs. I don't necessarily think it is for necessarily a good fit for everyone. So if it's not a fit for you, go ahead and throw some tomatoes. :)

 

 

I was really excited to try it - thinking my kids would like something more fun than R&S, but they really did not like it at all. . .My son has commented a number of times that at least with R&S he was learning something. I'm still going to try to use some of the vocabulary books, but we're going back to R&S for grammar next year.

 

So I don't know if R&S is more rigorous, but at least for ds, he didn't feel like he was really learning with MCT, and he chose to go back to R&S.

[Gratia271]

Part of the reason it works really well for my own HG-PG kid is it's not repetitious. I don't think rigor = repetition, and I know for my own particular kid repetition = disaster.

 

:iagree:

[Capt_Uhura]

KH - I'm curious to know what level you started your DS at?

 

Capt_Uhura

[MariannNOVA]

At the risk of having to field some tomatoes,

R&S bored my dc to tears - especially the grade three twins. THAT BEING SAID, as a former classroom teacher, R&S is a great curric to use in a room with 16 or so children, imo -- I would be fairly certain that everyone was 'getting it.'

 

RadioBrain wrote: I haven't found it to wear off. It does mutate a bit, becomes less whimsical and more meaty. However it is very rigorous, but in a different way than you might think. It has so much depth. Each level gets progressively more intense, and by the 4th level you should be doing 5 academic essays per year, and some other truly intense stuff.

 

It is written in a way that encourages an internal memory of the subject taught. They kids really retain it, for several reasons. I need to get my kids up, so that's all I can do...

 

someone else can add something, I am sure!

 

I agree with her assessment. I have not found it to wear off - interesting way to put it, and a 'feeling' that I must say as a homeschooler, I share. I never worried about things 'wearing off' when I taught in the classroom, but I have wondered about it with my own children -- but, that's a topic for another thread.

 

Anyway, MCT has changed the way I teach LA, it has changed the way I homeschool and it has changed our homeschooling day....all for the better. I selected R&S originally b/c it was recommended in WTM, and I was quite accustomed to an 'open the book and go, step one, step two, step three, now you show me you have learned the material approach.' My children hated it - they didn't like other LA curric we tried either - FWIW, with JAG, they kept saying to me, "Are you sure we are learning this? ":lol: (that's me laughing, not them. They were actually quite serious).

 

I think there was a thread some months back and someone asked MCT users who had used R&S to compare the two. YES: here is the link to the thread:

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166508&highlight=R%26S+MCT

 

I think I recall that the issue of 'rigor' was discussed. If not, here is my opinion. The two curric are totally different. I have no doubt that each will provide the tools, map, instruction that one needs to teach their dc Grammar. Some of us like our maps from Google, some of us like to use a GPS, some of us get our maps off of our Blackberry, and some of us use Mapquest (although if you use Mapquest here in Northern Virginia, you will likely get lost :001_huh: as roads are changed/added/done away with at a rather fast pace).........my point being that each of us h as to select what works best for their situation.

 

I am finding as we continue with MCT that my children are speaking about Grammar now -- with each other, with DH, with me. In the beginning, I think they thought I had lost my mind b/c we sat, we read together, they liked it, and then we were finished till the next day. It was an approach to LA that we had not experienced.

So, to answer your question: IMO, yes, the feeling stays the same (or remains). The novelty has not worn off (we have been using MCT since November, I think).

 

Is it as rigorous as R&S ? That's interesting, b/c if push comes to shove, I must be perfectly honest and say that I do not find R&S as rigorous as I find it boring - BUT THAT IS ME! I think MCT provides a layer that I don't see in R&S - independent thinking, creativity......but again, THAT IS ME!

 

AND THAT IS WHY BASKIN ROBBINS MAKES 31 FLAVORS.

[Dawn E]

I started using CLE this year, which I equate with R&S to a degree. I really loved the thoroughness it provided. As I kept reading the MCT threads, I began to research it as a possibility for next year. I liked what I saw, and, though I was still somewhat unsure, I decided to purchase it to get my hands on it and really see it. I was so impressed, and it was such a breath of fresh air, that I decided to take a break from what we had been doing and start MCT early. My dd loves it. Perhaps it's the teacher intensive nature of it that she loves most...she really enjoys that we sit together on the couch to do it and that she doesn't have much writing to do. She is, however, learning and internalizing the material. The practice books do a great job of keeping that process going as well as the other materials included in the series.

 

Just yesterday we were discussing similes and metaphors in Music of the Hemispheres, and she stopped me to run off for a moment. She came back with a poem that she had written last year. In it she had used a simile unaware. The study made her remember that line, and now she was able to identify what she had done. I love teaching moments like that...when synapses are firing...

 

Anyway, back to your question. I'm still uncertain if MCT contains everything I am looking for. I haven't entered Sentence Island yet. I still have a fondness for CLE, and I like the wealth of material it presents. I'm contemplating the idea of adding it in somehow, down the road, if I still want to. But, I can tell you that MCT is entirely worth it, whether you use it only or as a supplement even. Of course, there are children and parents it will not work for as with any material, but for those that it clicks with, it is pretty remarkable.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Dawn E

[MariannNOVA]

 

I haven't entered Sentence Island yet.

The twins and I are LOVING SENTENCE ISLAND!!!!!!! We'll look for you at the Tiki Hut!:D

[KS_]

KH - I'm curious to know what level you started your DS at?

 

Capt_Uhura

 

I started dd on the Island level and ds on the Town level. They both just really didn't like the silliness of the stories (they *love* reading and love some silliness in their books, but I guess not in things like grammar or math. . .) And I was really surprised when ds said he didn't feel like he had learned anything throughout the entire book.

 

I am continuing with the Practice books, and they both seem to like those and I do think they have learned quite a bit with the four level analysis.

[Crimson Wife]

I can't speak to R&S as I've never seen it. But after using MCT for a few months, I do now agree that it is rigorous IF you use ALL the components together. The vocabulary and poetry books in particular are excellent. The grammar is not as comprehensive as other programs I've looked at targeting the same age range but what it does cover, it goes into more advanced concepts. The jury's still out on whether I like the grammar & writing portions enough to continue on in the series or to use it with my younger kids when they're old enough.

[Marla]

I started using CLE this year…. I really loved the thoroughness it provided. As I kept reading the MCT threads, I began to research it as a possibility for next year. I liked what I saw, and, though I was still somewhat unsure, I decided to purchase it to get my hands on it and really see it.

 

Ditto! We began using CLE this year, too, and though I LOVE it, my dd is not fond of workbooks. She is a story kind of gal so MCT seems like it may resonate with her so yesterday, I took the plunge and ordered the Town level to take a look.

 

I still have a fondness for CLE, and I like the wealth of material it presents. I'm contemplating the idea of adding it in somehow, down the road, if I still want to.

I feel the same way! I already own next year’s CLE LA so wondered about combining the two although perhaps I’ll feel differently when I actually see MCT.

 

I can tell you that MCT is entirely worth it, whether you use it only or as a supplement even.

I really appreciate hearing this since I just pushed the “buy it†button on MCT. Thanks for sharing!

[radiobrain]

I started dd on the Island level and ds on the Town level. They both just really didn't like the silliness of the stories (they *love* reading and love some silliness in their books, but I guess not in things like grammar or math. . .) And I was really surprised when ds said he didn't feel like he had learned anything throughout the entire book.

 

I am continuing with the Practice books, and they both seem to like those and I do think they have learned quite a bit with the four level analysis.

 

Just curious... did you have Socratic discussions with them? Or did they read the books by themselves? I would think that if any kid just read the books, and didn't talk about it... it would not feel like much, or at least not as much as it should.

 

My kids liked the silliness, but if yours aren't charmed by the humor, they might have missed a lot of the carefully written nuances throughout the books. Maybe they just don't think in the same wavelength as MCT.

 

If you did the discussion and really delved into it... and they still didn't think they learned anything.... I guess it is not for them. However, if it was the whimsical nature that they didn't connect with, the higher levels do not have that to the same extent. Voyage is pretty meaty. I haven't had a chance to really immerse myself in it, but in my opinion... it is going to be INTENSE! :D

[KS_]

My kids liked the silliness, but if yours aren't charmed by the humor, they might have missed a lot of the carefully written nuances throughout the books. Maybe they just don't think in the same wavelength as MCT.

 

If you did the discussion and really delved into it... and they still didn't think they learned anything.... I guess it is not for them. However, if it was the whimsical nature that they didn't connect with, the higher levels do not have that to the same extent. Voyage is pretty meaty. I haven't had a chance to really immerse myself in it, but in my opinion... it is going to be INTENSE! :D

 

The funny thing is, my kids are quite charmed by humor and ds has memorized some parts of books he's finds particularly amusing and will spout them off sometimes. So I thought they'd really enjoy a break from the traditional with grammar. . .we did some discussing, but dd especially, would just groan when I'd start reading and be so turned off by the storyline, that she didn't want to talk about it more. (Before I decided that we'd go back to R&S, I let ds look at a sample of Life of Fred math online, again, thinking that he might find it fun, since school isn't something he looks forward to, but he said no way!)

 

I did find several of the higher level books used for a good price, and am still holding onto those, hoping to use them as supplements maybe, or see if my kids enjoy them more later on.

[swimmermom3]

I started dd on the Island level and ds on the Town level. They both just really didn't like the silliness of the stories (they *love* reading and love some silliness in their books, but I guess not in things like grammar or math. . .) And I was really surprised when ds said he didn't feel like he had learned anything throughout the entire book.

 

I am continuing with the Practice books, and they both seem to like those and I do think they have learned quite a bit with the four level analysis.

 

My son started MCT as an 11 yo in the Voyage level, so we missed any of the "silliness." The Voyage level (gifted 5th) is interesting but not entertaining. I did feel a need to back him up a level for the writing, I was concerned that Paragraph Town with its tale of ducks would be too juvenile. My son loved Paragraph Town. At one level, it's about ducks talking about paragraphs. On another level, it's an exercise in seeing how MCT utilized what he was teaching throughout the book. It became a game to see that if MCT was talking about descriptive paragraphs, he was providing a great example right then and there. But he didn't say, "Now here is a sample." The child needs to be quick enough to catch it.

 

I hope this makes sense as I had 5 minutes before lunch was over.

[MariannNOVA]

My son started MCT as an 11 yo in the Voyage level, so we missed any of the "silliness." The Voyage level (gifted 5th) is interesting but not entertaining. I did feel a need to back him up a level for the writing, I was concerned that Paragraph Town with its tale of ducks would be too juvenile. My son loved Paragraph Town. At one level, it's about ducks talking about paragraphs. On another level, it's an exercise in seeing how MCT utilized what he was teaching throughout the book. It became a game to see that if MCT was talking about descriptive paragraphs, he was providing a great example right then and there. But he didn't say, "Now here is a sample." The child needs to be quick enough to catch it.

 

I hope this makes sense as I had 5 minutes before lunch was over.

 

We are in Para Town with dd fifth grade right now (we bumped down after Grammar Voyage) -- yes, :iagree: -- dd loves it and is on the lookout.

[TeaTotaler]

I don't have any answers for you but this is where we are in the process of MCT vs R&S:

 

I initially looked into MCT because of the vocab and poetics. In Dec I was having a major crisis with CW Homer so I looked at MCT some more and realized that all the pieces of the program work together so I took the plunge and ordered the complete Voyage package intending to use it this fall.

 

Ds was three-quarters of the way through R&S 6 when we started MCT Grammar Voyage a few weeks ago. Most of the grammar was review but I decided to go with the Voyage level because I didn't want to miss out on the earlier vocab and poetics books for this level. Ds is enjoying the program so far. We did most of R&S orally but it was getting tedious and we were both ready for a break. I attended MCT's talks at the Cincy convention and was amazed at the man's love for words, and language. Dh attended the poetics session and wished he could sit in on our poetry sessions at home.

 

I still have not decided if I am going to drop CW Homer. I am getting to the point where I would really like to streamline our day and CW is taking a huge chunk of time. I do like how everything in MCT is interwoven. I will look at it more closely in the next few weeks and decide.

 

R&S is definitely thorough. My son is well-grounded in grammar. However we needed a change and MCT was like a breath of fresh air.

 

HTH a little.

 

 

 

We have used R&S English 2 through 4. While we like it, it does seem to get repetitious. Occasionally I'll bring up topics from earlier chapters, and ds seems to remember most of it, yet sometimes gives me that 'blank' look! :001_huh: We review and the light bulb comes on! :lol:

 

I have looked and looked at MCT. I have even ordered the first level. In looking through the books, I can see 'why' many love it, because it is different. Completely different, almost like something new and fresh. Yet after time, does this feeling stay the same? Or does the novelty wear off. (No tomoatoes please!) AND... Is it as rigorous as R&S???