choosing an undergrad school (pre-med)

[amyinva]

My DD is 17 and is taking a full course load at our local community college. She will complete high school with her associate's degree and then transfer to a 4-yr school, most likely as a junior (depending on the school and how many credits they accept). She wants either nursing (in ehich case she will go on to get a master's) or more likely pre-med.

 

She was speaking to her Anatomy & Physiology prof today, who also teaches at UVA. He said that large schools like she is considering for the rest of her undergrad (UVA, Johns Hopkins) are not the best schools for undergrad b/c the professors are so focused on their research, etc that they really do not focus on the students in their undergrad classes. He suggested that she go to a smaller school for finishing up undergrad and then go to one of these schools for med/nursing school.

 

Anyone have an opinion on this? My DD is concerned that if she goes to a smaller, less prestigious, school that she will have a harder time getting into the med school of her choice. She also wanted to stay close to home (VA).

 

thank you for any words of wisdom!

Amy

[CO MOM]

A lot depends on the relationship and "record" the smaller school has with acceptances into the bigger programs I think. I was in pre-p.t. (but it was the same with pre-med) in a small school in Iowa, and we always got in at least 1-2 students into the University of Iowa program every year (2-3 for med school). There was no "official" arrangement, but the University knew that the top students from our college would be well prepared and our college made sure we had the needed internships, etc. to make our applications successful. I guess the advantage the U. of IA kids had was that they already knew a lot of the professors for interviews and references, but in the long run that didn't make that much difference. Sometimes it was a hindrance and more difficult to get in, as the larger school wanted a more diverse class than just all students from their university.

 

I guess you would need to check with any smaller schools you might consider and see what their track record is for admissions is into the larger programs as well as at her target med schools and see where their students have come from. HTH!

[creekland]

We have been hearing the same thing from pretty much everyone I've talked to (live or on the net). From what I've heard, the competition at the more well-known schools makes it a very competitive environment and only the tough top succeed. The rest get weeded out. On top of that, those are usually the more expensive schools, so unless one is prepared to shell out a bit of money for undergrad, one is also saddled with a lot of debt - then trying to do grad school.

 

The suggestion from all but one person I've talked with has been to find an attractive smaller school (or state schools) and be a big fish in a small pond. That is likely to get you noticed more easily for interviews as well as be less costly. The key (they tell me) is to check to see how many they send to grad school - and where. Look equally at percentages and numbers. You don't want 100% and 1 of 1. A decent percentage with adequate numbers tells you that their program prepares their students well.

 

My son also wants research at the undergrad level. He's not sure yet if he wants to become a Dr or just do research. Every time I look at suggestions the same one keeps appearing for him - University of Rochester - but I'm not certain it will be affordable, so we keep adding to our list of schools to check out. U of R isn't super small, but they do have an impressive record of letting undergrads do real research instead of just mopping and being lab rats. I'm not sure how it is for pure pre-med, though I know they have a med school too.

[TravelingChris]

I would look at acceptance rates. Their are some very good LACs for premed out there. Now how easy is it to transfer there and complete in two years I don't know. But since dd for a short while was considering pre-med, I looked into this and found that acceptance rates were often better at select smaller colleges.

[RegGuheert]

A lot depends on the relationship and "record" the smaller school has with acceptances into the bigger programs I think.

:iagree:

 

When we compared Liberty University with Geneva College, we felt the academics at Geneva were better due to their ACS-certified biochemistry degree program. They also have a fairly high acceptance rate into medical schools including Johns Hopkins, etc. However, DD17 is interested in osteopathic medicine and VCOM has a relationship with Liberty University based on their similar missions, meaning that several Liberty students are admitted into VCOM every year, versus only one ever from Geneva. That fact made Liberty much more attractive to us.

 

We have found a lot of useful information in Med School Rx, though YMMV since this is written by a DO, not an MD.

 

Good luck, and let us know anything you learn from your side!

[CO MOM]

One other thing I thought of was relationships the college (or you) may have with local docs that are alumni of the med school. All of us had internships with local practioners (who later wrote our recommendations) who were also alumni of the university. That probably helped too!

 

That is kind of far down the road to have to think about, but if you know any alumni of the med schools she is looking at, they may be able to give some helpful advice or be connections for volunteer work, etc. along the way.

[Orthodox6]

Although the generalization is that at larger schools, the undergraduates often are taught by TAs, rather than by full professors, I still believe that schools vary in this practice. When I was an undergraduate student at Duke, even my "mass-population intro" courses (calculus, chemistry, etc.) were taught by full professors. TAs handled lab coursework, only. The professors were quite available to students who wished/needed to consult them.

 

Check with the desired target schools.

[JFSinIL]

The LAC where my ds is going has about 70% acceptance rate to med. school (the place he almost went claimed over 80%!!!)

[cat in black]

Just a little food for thought. In the state of Virginia, Emory & Henry had more students accepted to medical school than any other state school 3 years ago. Two kids from our homeschool group have been accepted to medical school for next year. One is graduating from Roanoke College and the other is graduating from Ferrum. These are all very small schools. Another of our former homeschoolers is graduating from Virginia Tech and has been accepted to their vet school for next year. She is 20 years old! So much simply depends on the kid's own motivation and work ethic.

[cillakat]

Anyone have an opinion on this? My DD is concerned that if she goes to a smaller, less prestigious, school that she will have a harder time getting into the med school of her choice. She also wanted to stay close to home (VA).

 

Her concern is well founded.

 

It's important to take her pre-med classes at the most competitive school she can afford/gain entrance too even if the rest of her undergrad is done at a less competitive school or even a portion at community college.

 

Premed classes=most important=take at competitive/prestigious school

 

http://www.studentdoctor.net/ is an excellent resource.

 

Best,

Katherine

[MomsintheGarden]

Premed classes=most important=take at competitive/prestigious school

 

http://www.studentdoctor.net/ is an excellent resource.

 

Best,

Katherine

 

Thanks for the link, Katherine. Dd and I are looking forward to reading Student Doctor's forums and articles. I've heard conflicting opinions about this topic, and I was wondering if you could reference some published statistics or studies to back up your advice.

 

From what I've read so far, it seems that while excellent grades in premed classes at a competitive/prestigious school (+ great recommendation + excellent MCAT scores + shadowing, etc.) will assure acceptance at prestigious med schools, it seems that admittance is perhaps more complicated than that. For instance, the DO school in which dd is interested is looking for candidates who want to practice in underserved areas or do missions medicine.

 

Also, a friend of our family is a vet who went to Duke. She described her undergrad experience as cutthroat. She said that several of her friends would have made great doctors, but didn't make the grades because they were at Duke, which she thought was a shame. I can't help thinking that those students might have made better grades at a less competitive school, and might have gotten into a med school.

 

Just a few random thoughts,

GardenMom

[at the beach]

Very interesting responses to this question. I had never thought about the fact that kids at very prestigious schools might have such a cut-throat atmosphere that only a few would get into medical school. Does this mean if they do stellar on the MCAT they may still just not find a school that will accept them?

 

My daughter has a friend she works with at the pharmacy where she interns when she is home on breaks from college who wanted to go to med school but is now doing a Doctorate in PT instead. She had started out at a Big Ten University but decided she wanted to be home near family. She came home to attend a local state school that is not prestigious in most regards. They do not have a good rate of kids getting into medical school I don't think. Anyway, this girl did very well, is very bright, but couldn't really get any interviews--might still be waiting to hear from a couple schools. She didn't have many people to write her recommendations, either, if I recall correctly. I don't think the school gave her an accurate representation of what she needed to do to be comptetitive. I also believe she's decided at this point to just stick with the PT program (a great low-cost high payoff program IMO), which is at the school where she got her Bachelor's Degree. My dd, who's in a Pharm.D. program at a private university, told me her school has very solid acceptance rates to medical school. It's not an uber comptetive place IMO. It is for Pharmacy as they accept very few into that particular program--maybe 20% of applicants when she applied--but across the board not so much if that makes sense. However, her best friend/roommate is planning on medical school and has a great advisor and things look promising for her. One of her classmates was selected to do a research internship this summer at Harvard I believe.

 

So, I think the suggestions to look at acceptance rates is important. Sure took me a long time to say that, didn't it?:tongue_smilie:

[TravelingChris]

I think it also depends on the student. Some may do better with a very competetive environment. On the other hand, we visited collees with high med school acceptance rates that had lots of reserch opportunities and were much more nurturing versus competetive. I think it really depends on the student. But the small LAC I visited arrranged for great reserach and intern opportunities, much more than the prestigious reseach university that I attended for undergrad. I was an econ major so didn't really need reserach experience but my dh who was a physics major mainly got his research experience by working a part time job at a neuroscience laboratory in the university's hospital. I do think he also got some other research opportunity as a senior but nothing like the opportunities I saw at these colleges.

[creekland]

Thanks for the link, Katherine. Dd and I are looking forward to reading Student Doctor's forums and articles. I've heard conflicting opinions about this topic, and I was wondering if you could reference some published statistics or studies to back up your advice.

 

From what I've read so far, it seems that while excellent grades in premed classes at a competitive/prestigious school (+ great recommendation + excellent MCAT scores + shadowing, etc.) will assure acceptance at prestigious med schools, it seems that admittance is perhaps more complicated than that. For instance, the DO school in which dd is interested is looking for candidates who want to practice in underserved areas or do missions medicine.

 

Also, a friend of our family is a vet who went to Duke. She described her undergrad experience as cutthroat. She said that several of her friends would have made great doctors, but didn't make the grades because they were at Duke, which she thought was a shame. I can't help thinking that those students might have made better grades at a less competitive school, and might have gotten into a med school.

 

Just a few random thoughts,

GardenMom

 

My research has agreed with what you've found. College confidential has been a good source of info. Most there say DON'T go into major debt for undergrad and beware of competitive/cut throat schools. That said, not all schools prepare one effectively, so one does have to look carefully.

[creekland]

... we visited collees with high med school acceptance rates that had lots of reserch opportunities and were much more nurturing versus competetive.

 

I'd love a list of places you've seen or heard of to check out for my middle son. He wants research and not cut throat.

[Susan in IL]

A friend's dd went to Notre Dame for undergrad. She majored in Bio., had a very good GPA, shadowed and worked for doctors every summer with great recs, a great MCAT score but didn't get into med school on the first try. She applied to 10 I think and had many interviews. She wanted to specialize in Breast cancer or something like that. One of the schools told her part of the problem with her (and many others) was the specialization part. They were looking for GP's and she should apply the next year. They told her once she is in, then you can say you want to specialize. She did get in the next year, graduating this year, and will be starting at Mayo soon.

[cillakat]

Thanks for the link, Katherine. Dd and I are looking forward to reading Student Doctor's forums and articles. I've heard conflicting opinions about this topic, and I was wondering if you could reference some published statistics or studies to back up your advice.

 

There is a ton of information at studentdoctor.net and oldpremeds.com

 

One of the forums has a former medical school admissions director (Vanderbilt iirc) but in both places there is a tremendous amount of discussion on this exact issue.

 

:)

K