Working with dd10 on phonics is torture

[agw]

Since my 10 year old was five I have been working on phonics with her trying a multitude of approaches/curriculum to get her reading, even those designed for dyslexics. Yet, she comes to a complete halt every time we hit long vowel rules. We can go over the rules and go through a lesson, everything is fine. Then we do an application activity and she cannot apply the rule. I feel like crying and she does cry out of frustration.

 

She does read now (mainly because she has memorized words and rhythm), but it is difficult for her and tiring. She gets very interested in reading certain books, but stops after a couple of pages into it because it looks to difficult. Case in point: She asked me to get a copy of 'Time Cat' after doing a narration in WWE. I had to request it from the library and wait. For three days she asked me if the library had called. Picked it up last night, she flipped through it and put it aside.

 

I don't know what we need. Her younger sisters are learning to read so much more easily, which is making it even tougher on her.

 

We've had her eyes checked (tracking issues and everything), and besides needing reading glasses for an astigmatism, everything is fine.

 

I'm frustrated, she is frustrated. She is very perceptive and smart other than her reading/spelling and I am just so afraid that I am failing her somehow.

 

Amy

[NoPlaceLikeHome]

I recommend ElizabethB's website and Don Potter's which explain the use of Webster's Speller for reading and have many free wonderful resources on phonics and spelling.

 

Please see my post in this thread with detailed links and info:)

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154227

[Catherine]

Please give us more detail on what you have tried.

[agw]

We've tried: 100EZ, OPGTR, HOP, Phonics Pathways, Reading Reflex, Reading Rescue 1-2-3, Homemade phonics cards & activities, and she is currently going through Elizabeth B's online phonics lessons.

 

She has completed through lesson 12 of Elizabeth's program and was doing fine until the long vowel spellings began. She can do the lesson online, but when we review it together she can't recognize that 'meet' and 'met' are not the same word (for example). I'm thinking that I need to put aside the online program for a little while and go through the paper lessons to slow them down at this point.

 

She HATES manipulatives so I've learned to stay away from them.

 

Amy

[Momofeat]

Has she actually been diagnosed with dyslexia?

[agw]

No, not dyslexic. Very VSL though.

[LizzyBee]

If you go to http://www.bartonreading.com, there is a free student screening test for the purpose of checking whether the student has sufficient pre-reading skills to succeed with a reading program. There are 3 parts to the test, and each part tests different skills. I recommend taking the test to see if you can isolate her weakness so that the it can be remediated. If you give her the test (don't call it a test to your dd), come back and post the results, and we can give you some ideas of what to do next. In addition, Susan Barton, the owner of the website, has recommendations posted on the site that are based on which parts of the student screening your dd can or can't pass.

 

If she passes all 3 parts of the test, I would start using an Orton-Gillingham program. I love Barton Reading because it is scripted and very easy to use. But if you can't afford Barton, there are other options. Wilson Reading is cheaper and has a great reputation. I think Recipe for Reading has been mentioned as the cheapest OG program out there @ about $25, but I think you have to make your own manipulatives (tiles, flashcards, etc.). On the Barton Reading website, there is a list of OG programs.

[LizzyBee]

No, not dyslexic. Very VSL though.

 

Nevertheless, she hasn't responded to 5 years of reading instruction. I would take the same approach as if she were dyslexic.

 

Has she had a full neuropsych or ed-psych evaluation? Speech-language evaulation? Audiology evaluation including auditory processing? Those are some things I'd consider pursuing.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

Here's what I would try:

 

Flash cards for the most common long vowel sounds that occur at least 90% of the time for their spelling:

 

ai, ay (ai w/in, ay at end)

ee

oa, oe (oa w/in, oe at end)

ui, ue, ew (ui w/in, ue at end)

 

also, you'll eventually need these, too:

oi, oy (oi w/in, oy at end)

ou (ou w/in word, it will be ow at the end, but no flashcard for ow as it says ou and long o)

au, aw (au within, aw at end or w/in; au says "aw" as in pause or saw 97% of the time)

 

Then, have her circle the vowel team you're working on in a list of words, for example, have her find all the long e's in a list of words like met, pet, meet, see, be, bee. Once she can do it one at a time, have her look for long o's and long a's in a list, then all long vowels in a list of mixed words.

 

Every time she misses one, have her circle the vowels and say what they are if it's something you can write in, or have her write the word and circle or underline the vowel team she missed.

 

The lessons were designed for a student taught with a lot of sight words and move pretty fast--some children have to watch them 2 or 3 times if they are struggling and have some type of underlying problem not due to sight words.

 

Also, my students who struggle the most are usually good at math and find these charts very helpful:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonogramsoundch.html

 

You might also want to try the 1879 McGuffey readers, the pdf versions at Gutenberg are free, if they work, you can get the real books for $37 for the whole set at Amazon. I like them because they work on the difficult words first, so you get that out of the way and then can enjoy the reading selections a bit more.

Edited March 5, 2010 by ElizabethB

[EKS]

No, not dyslexic. Very VSL though.

 

May I ask how you know she's not dyslexic? A child struggling with basic phonics at age 10 is not simply suffering from a different learning style.

 

I would assume she is dyslexic and go from there. Some good resources: Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz and The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide. Also the Eides have a blog and website that have a lot of good information.

 

I would also have her evaluated by a developmental optometrist.

[agw]

:grouphug:

 

Here's what I would try:

 

Flash cards for the most common long vowel sounds that occur at least 90% of the time for their spelling:

 

ai, ay (ai w/in, ay at end)

ee

oa, oe (oa w/in, oe at end)

ui, ue, ew (ui w/in, ue at end)

 

also, you'll eventually need these, too:

oi, oy (oi w/in, oy at end)

ou (ou w/in word, it will be ow at the end, but no flashcard for ow as it says ou and long o)

au, aw (au within, aw at end or w/in; au says "aw" as in pause or saw 97% of the time)

 

Then, have her circle the vowel team you're working on in a list of words, for example, have her find all the long e's in a list of words like met, pet, meet, see, be, bee. Once she can do it one at a time, have her look for long o's and long a's in a list, then all long vowels in a list of mixed words.

 

Every time she misses one, have her circle the vowels and say what they are if it's something you can write in, or have her write the word and circle or underline the vowel team she missed.

 

The lessons were designed for a student taught with a lot of sight words and move pretty fast--some children have to watch them 2 or 3 times if they are struggling and have some type of underlying problem not due to sight words.

 

Also, my students who struggle the most are usually good at math and find these charts very helpful:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/Phonics%20Lsns/phonogramsoundch.html

 

You might also want to try the 1879 McGuffey readers, the pdf versions at Gutenberg are free, if they work, you can get the real books for $37 for the whole set at Amazon. I like them because they work on the difficult words first, so you get that out of the way and then can enjoy the reading selections a bit more.

 

Thanks I will try this.

 

I talked with her this evening on the way to soccer and she wants to keep trying with Elizabeth B's phonics lessons. She feels like she is getting a lot out of them and wants to at least finish the whole series. We talked about starting with the Blue-back speller also.

 

The only thing she seems to struggle with are all the vowel combinations for long vowel sounds. She doesn't have troubles with any other phonetic lessons. I really think she gets stuck somewhere processing all the rules in her head while she is trying to sound them out. Plus, she is impulsive in her responses.

 

I've looked at Barton's and the other Orton-Gillingham methods and she is so anti-manipulatives I couldn't use them.

 

And, I didn't say she wasn't reading....it has been a long struggle but she does read independently books such as: Pochantas and the Stranger, A Lion to Guard Us, The Cabin Faced West, George the Drummer Boy, and Daniel Boone. She read those last semester and was able to complete decent, complete oral narrations for them. She comprehends what she is reading, but it is mainly through sight words an context. She just finds reading slow and frustrating. I'm trying to find ways to help her read better and easier.

 

We've had her eyes checked for tracking issues, and she is fine.

 

Thanks for the help.

[Homeschooling6]

We've tried: 100EZ, OPGTR, HOP, Phonics Pathways, Reading Reflex, Reading Rescue 1-2-3, Homemade phonics cards & activities, and she is currently going through Elizabeth B's online phonics lessons.

 

She has completed through lesson 12 of Elizabeth's program and was doing fine until the long vowel spellings began. She can do the lesson online, but when we review it together she can't recognize that 'meet' and 'met' are not the same word (for example). I'm thinking that I need to put aside the online program for a little while and go through the paper lessons to slow them down at this point.

 

She HATES manipulatives so I've learned to stay away from them.

 

Amy

 

 

My son has a hard time with his vowels. He too has had years of phonics instruction. He finally started reading at age 9 and now is at grade level. Now he can read but not spell.

 

In December I started using SWR. I started him with list I. He can read the word 'season', 'blow' but he can't spell them.

 

While using SWR I found out he gets a lot of the phonograms mixed up (oa, oe, ou, ow). He has a hard time with the term 'long & short' vowels. He has trouble with the single phonograms a, e, o & u.

 

For months (before SWR even) with 'ck' sound he would forget to use it after a single vowel that says it short sound.

 

SWR has us review the phonogram cards daily and we have been slowly working through the list. We are now on section K-6. This past month we have been having lots of 'light' bulb moments. He gets the 'ck' and is finally remembering some of the other double vowel phonograms. He still spells horribly but slowly it's improving. He even mentioned that he sees the phonograms in words.

 

I know your issue is with reading but maybe something like SWR will help.

 

My dad is dyslexic and although I have never been tested I wouldn't be surprised if I am to some extent. With Josh, I feel like he might have some form of dyslexia, although he hasn't been tested. My son can't stand manipulatives either. I have noticed that with all the information regarding phonics and spelling rules (along with grammar and math) all that information gets jumbled in his brain. I imagine a bowl of spaghetti. Too much info really affects him. He needs to go over a concept over and over and over again. I think that's why SWR is working. We go over the phonograms daily and he sees the rules being applied to the words.

 

Also wanted to add that I chose SWR because it didn't have the word "Phonics" on it. He felt that phonics was for little kids. I make sure I call it spelling (even though I am using it for phonics as well ;) )

 

Sorry for rambling but I felt the need to share:)

Edited March 5, 2010 by Homeschooling6