If you've done TOG ancients yr 1

[jewel7123]

How much talk is there in the Lower grammar books about things such as Egyptian burial customs, etc? A friend let me look at her SOTW 1 to check out, and I was appalled at the gory details discussed about the preparation of mummies, etc. I cannot imagine reading this to a 6 year old!

 

Here is an exerpt:

 

"Instantly the priests start to make preparations. They collect all the things they'll need to make Cheop's body into a mummy-salt, spices, oil and linen. Cheops is carried from the palace to the temple, where the priests are waiting for him. The priests take the body to a holy place inside the temple. They wash it with wine and spices. Then they take all of Cheop's organs- his liver, his stomach, his lungs, and his intestines, out of his body. They cover the organs with special spices to preserve them. Cheop's heart gets special treatment. The chief priest takes his heart out, washes it, wraps it in linen strips, and puts it back into Cheop's chest. The Egyptians believe that Cheops will need his heart in the afterlife. They think that when Cheops reaches the underworld, the god Osiris will weigh his heart on a special scale. If his heart is good, it will be light and Cheops will spend the rest of the afterlife in happiness. But if his heart is full of sin, it will be heavy- and a monster will eat it!"

 

Is there content like this in the books used in TOG Yr 1 for lower grammar? I can understand when children are older they might find details like this more fascinating, but I personally would never read this to a child as young as 6. I know a lot of people do, and no offense to you, but for me personally it's a no go.

[St. Theophan Academy]

We are doing TOG Ancients (mine are 10, 8, 5 & 2), and the thing with TOG is that it is not a book you read, but a plan you implement. So, you can focus on a topic as much or as little as you want, simply by selecting which books your children read. It would be very easy to say nothing at all about egyptian burial customs, if that is your preference. I will add, all of my kids have listened to the SOTW CD's - even my 5 year old - and it really was not an issue, but we deal with death in a very open manner in the Orthodox church, children go to funerals, the body remains in the church from death until burial, even if that means during a Sunday morning service etc, so I (and they) did not find it all that big of a deal. It was a great chance to discuss the differences in beliefs concering death. We made our own mummies when mine oldest were 5 & 7 (first time through ancient history - we are on our second cycle now).

[jewel7123]

I should add that its all the talk about gods (little g!) that bothers me the most about SOTW 1. The discussion of removing and washing organs, etc. was just the straw that broke the camels back for me, lol. I guess I am just very leery of doing Ancients in general with very young children, but even if I wait until my oldest is 3rd or 4th grade I will have two younger ones behind her, so it will happen eventually. I just need to choose a curriculum that will allow me to skip over or keep to bare minimum talks about false gods, and other objectionable topics.

[Guest aquiverfull]

bump

[swimmermom3]

Personally, I think even with TOG, it would be very hard to sanitize ancient history to the point of acceptability that you are talking about without losing the feel of the times. Literature is mythology. Polytheism is for the most part the standard for religion. The art includes people without clothes. Perhaps it would be easier to skip this time frame for the first go round and start with the advent of Christianity.

[TracyP]

We didn't get into this in TOG (we learned about mummies but not the details) but we didn't read all the books. I think no matter what you choose you will just have to pre-read and decide how to handle it. Have you thought about using just the OT for year one of a 4 year cycle? Then maybe pick up SOTW or TOG or whatever you choose as they move into the middle ages.

 

FWIW I do skim a lot over what *I* feel may be inappropriate but when false gods have come up we talk about these people not knowing the True God and how sad that is. We then have talked about how there are still people who don't know God. This has not been a source of confusion at all and I am really glad to have been able to handle it myself.

[jewel7123]

I guess my problem is this....I could wait to do Ancients until the second 4 year cycle, putting my oldest in 5th grade. But, I will also have a 3rd and 1st grader that year, so I'm right back in the same position. I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible to do TOG Yr 1 without all the gods, etc. ? What other curriculums don't use SOTW? I know HOD doesn't, but they don't recommend doing the same history cycle, which is what I want to do with my children.

[mommyagain]

I would think that no matter what curriculum you use, you can make it what you want. You are in charge. We will be using Biblioplan next year with a 6yr old and a 7yr old. I plan to "edit on the fly" when I read from SOTW, and skip some parts all together. I'll also be using MOH. Since we'll be learning a lot of OT history, I thought it would be good for them to have some idea of the culture of the time. Things like what they wore, ate, games they played and the fact that they worshipped many gods. I won't go into detail, at this age, of what that worship entails. We definitely won't be talking about monsters eating hearts!!!!!! I don't want to provide fodder for nightmares!! We will talk superfically about the mummification process (the whole "brain removal" part grosses me out!) and probably mummify Barbie or something. Right now they are fascinated with mummies and are begging me to learn about them.

Just take it slow and easy with your littles and focus more on the Bible. There is plenty of time for them to learn the gory truth when they cycle through this time period again.

 

BTW, you can use Biblioplan with just MOH as your spine, you don't have to use SOTW.

[TracyP]

I guess my problem is this....I could wait to do Ancients until the second 4 year cycle, putting my oldest in 5th grade. But, I will also have a 3rd and 1st grader that year, so I'm right back in the same position. I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible to do TOG Yr 1 without all the gods, etc. ? What other curriculums don't use SOTW? I know HOD doesn't, but they don't recommend doing the same history cycle, which is what I want to do with my children.

 

I don't think you will ever find a program that discusses ancient Egypt and ancient Greece and does not mention their beliefs/gods. It was a HUGE part of those cultures.

[jewel7123]

I won't go into detail, at this age, of what that worship entails. We definitely won't be talking about monsters eating hearts!!!!!! I don't want to provide fodder for nightmares!! We will talk superfically about the mummification process (the whole "brain removal" part grosses me out!)

 

Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one who feels this way! Oh, and I know disliking SOTW is pretty much unheard of, lol. I guess since Biblioplan uses SOTW as a spine I thought it would be hard to remove it? I emailed Biblioplan about it, but the response I received wasn't very helpful.

[mommyagain]

Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one who feels this way! Oh, and I know disliking SOTW is pretty much unheard of, lol. I guess since Biblioplan uses SOTW as a spine I thought it would be hard to remove it? I emailed Biblioplan about it, but the response I received wasn't very helpful.

In the beginning of the Biblioplan guide it says that MOH can be used as an alternative spine or as a supplement. I never cared too much for SOTW either and would not use it as my sole source of info.

[mrsrevmeg]

I used TOG with a first grader. He actually thought several things that totally grossed me out were cool. (He especially thought they brain removal method was awesome!) I do not see how you can teach ancients without touching on their religion. I used to think that it would be bad to teach false religions. However, I found (in my family, anyway) that studying the harsh, petty false gods helps us to grow closer to, appreciate and love more the true God. Thinking about children living in fear of the false gods has helped my kids realize how wonderful the true God is. They have made more of a concentrated effort to pray for people who live in the areas that we are studying. They are asking about the spiritual conditions of people in the areas we have studied. I had reservations, but it has turned out good for us. You know your family. If you think they are not ready to hear about false gods, maybe you should start in a different time period.

[Lovedtodeath]

 

Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one who feels this way! Oh, and I know disliking SOTW is pretty much unheard of, lol. I guess since Biblioplan uses SOTW as a spine I thought it would be hard to remove it? I emailed Biblioplan about it, but the response I received wasn't very helpful.

We just felt free to skip parts of SOTW. You don't have to read every page. ;)

[dsacco]

My girly-girly actually thinks that the mummy thing is cool.

 

We did a basic quick study and she found this site great: http://www.childrensuniversity.manchester.ac.uk/

 

It was a 15 minute conversation "breeze" over Monday and then she did remember everything on Friday....

[jewel7123]

I used TOG with a first grader. He actually thought several things that totally grossed me out were cool. (He especially thought they brain removal method was awesome!)

 

I have three girls, lol, so not sure how that would go over, honestly. :)

[mamato3 all-boy boys]

I guess my problem is this....I could wait to do Ancients until the second 4 year cycle, putting my oldest in 5th grade. But, I will also have a 3rd and 1st grader that year, so I'm right back in the same position. I guess I'm just wondering if it's possible to do TOG Yr 1 without all the gods, etc. ? What other curriculums don't use SOTW? I know HOD doesn't, but they don't recommend doing the same history cycle, which is what I want to do with my children.

 

I am in my second go-around in ancients w/ my 5th grader, and I have a 1st grader who is tagging along. Marcia does a good job providing warnings about topics that some families may feel is inappropriate for their situations, such as mythology, other religions, etc.

 

I do totally respect your thoughts about what you do and do not want to introduce to your children, however, we have found discussions about false gods to be fruitful for reinforcing our beliefs in the One True God.

 

eta: Each week there are "threads" which guide you in the major topics to be discussed in the core history readings. You can certainly use these as clues to what you may wish to not include in your weekly reading. You might consider posting your questions at the TOG forums, as well, to hear how other TOG families have faced your concerns.

[Amy in KS]

May I suggest Truthquest, My Father's World, or Veritas Press? They don't begin ancients until the child is slightly older (3rd for mfw, 3-4 for Truthquest, or 2nd for Veritas Press) for the very reason you stated.

 

I don't appreciate the emphasis sotw 1 places on myths that make biblical stories seem like common fairy tales. It's why I won't use it. FYI--my father's world uses sotw volumes 2-4 within their history programs. They do not use volume 1.

[shanvan]

If you have older children you can have them reading about more details that you would not want your younger dc to know. You can discuss with your older dc without the little ones around.

 

I leave out most of the info about pagan gods and many of the gory details for my dd, but my dialectic level ds reads about them in his independent reading and they are part of our discussion on Fridays. Most of it my dd does not hear.

 

I will admit that my LG dd gets more exposure to pagan god than my ds did when he was her age (because I had no older children to teach at the same time). As many other posters have mentioned we discuss the differences between their false gods and the true GOD. I do keep most of the coverage for her very general though.

 

I agree that it will be hard to properly study the ancients without some discussion of false Gods. It's mentioned all through the Bible stories and is a constant stumbling block to the Israelites in their relationship with God. Showing how they were constantly lead astray by the worship of pagan gods can be a great lesson for us today....even with young children. We all struggle with being led astray.

 

All that being said, with TOG YOU determine what you want your children to read and discuss. There are plenty of assignments and activities to replace any that you find objectionable. Do what is right for you and your family.

 

Shannon

[HappyCrazyMama]

Not sure I am to worried about burial customs but I did have a good idea (I thought :D ) for false gods and science. I'm not to worried about doing a formal science program for my dd who will be second next year and have been pondering what I might like to do. One day I thought why don't I teach the scientific truth of the attributes of these false gods when applicable. For example when a culture worships the sun we could learn the truth about the sun, Zeus we could learn the truth about thunder and lightening, if Echo is mentioned we can learn about sound waves, etc. . I don't know, I thought it was kind of a cool idea for a LG student. If it came up multiple times (like a sun god might) I could just say remember when we learned ... Of course it won't work for all of the gods/goddesses but I think it would work great for some.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Happyhomemama
to tired to be coherent

[jewel7123]

Not sure I am to worried about burial customs but I did have a good idea (I thought :D ) for false gods and science. I'm not to worried about doing a formal science program for my dd who will be second next year and have been pondering what I might like to do. One day I thought why don't I teach the scientific truth of the attributes of these false gods when applicable. For example when a culture worships the sun we could learn the truth about the sun, Zeus we could learn the truth about thunder and lightening, if Echo is mentioned we can learn about sound waves, etc. . I don't know, I thought it was kind of a cool idea for a LG student. If it came up multiple times (like a sun god might) I could just say remember when we learned ... Of course it won't work for all of the gods/goddesses but I think it would work great for some.

 

Now that is an interesting idea....thank you!

[Arooe22]

I know this is an extremely old topic but I recently had this same issue. We started history in grade 2 and I wanted to go chronologically... So we read from a children's story Bible as the core of our curriculum; during the times when Egypt was mentioned in the Bible, we did a unit study on Egypt covering the Nile, the desert habits, learned different camel types, nomads, STEM concept- using shadoofs (lever system) and made our own pyramids, so on. We didn't have to go into the paganism since there was really so much other topics to cover. However, I will add that since my daughter IS somewhat aware of the concept of false gods, I did find watching The Prince of Egypt to be an appropriate decision for her, and we just discussed the plagues together and how God showed his glory was pure and true over the fake gods.   After that, we just picked up with reading the Bible. When we get to the Roman Empire, we will take the same approach.