MEP users - do you supplement? why? with what?

[Greta]

We haven't been using MEP all that long, but I'm really happy with it. I notice that most people using it supplement with something else (or use something else as their core math program and supplement with MEP). I haven't really felt this need, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Do you think MEP is not complete in and of itself? What supplements do you think work well with it?

[nmoira]

Do you think MEP is not complete in and of itself? What supplements do you think work well with it?

I'm on the beginning end with DD the Younger and use units from Y7-Y9 with DD the Elder. While I haven't yet looked at the GCSE materials, I'd say the Y1-Y9 materials are complete. MEP also introduces some topics in Y8-Y9 not normally covered in the US in middle school years. DD the Elder started a section on Critical Path Analysis this morning (part of Unit 1: Mathematical Diagrams in Y8). I'd been intending to move DD the Younger to Singapore in Year 3, but am seriously considering staying with MEP, adding in only some additional mental math techniques. I like that many of the problems are more akin to those in the Singapore IP books, requiring some thought to solve, even in the early years.

 

I'm coupling MEP with Miquon with DD the Younger, but I'd say that MEP is our main program. She's five and not ready for hard-core academics, so we're taking our time moving through them.

[Zoo Keeper]

We combine MEP with Singapore and Miquon. I do think each of these programs could work very well as a stand alone, but I have found that the combo helps me teach from different perspectives, which has been very beneficial to my drastically different boys. One of them is a quick big picture guy, the other is a slow step by step guy. I find it interesting that they both love MEP. I have considered using MEP on its own, but I will contine to combine for a while because I think we need the benefit of seeing the different approaches to math right now.

[Greta]

I'd say the Y1-Y9 materials are complete.

 

I'm reassured that I'm not the only one with this impression. :001_smile: Thanks!

 

 

I'd been intending to move DD the Younger to Singapore in Year 3, but am seriously considering staying with MEP, adding in only some additional mental math techniques. I like that many of the problems are more akin to those in the Singapore IP books, requiring some thought to solve, even in the early years.

We combine MEP with Singapore and Miquon. I do think each of these programs could work very well as a stand alone, but I have found that the combo helps me teach from different perspectives, which has been very beneficial to my drastically different boys. One of them is a quick big picture guy, the other is a slow step by step guy. I find it interesting that they both love MEP. I have considered using MEP on its own, but I will contine to combine for a while because I think we need the benefit of seeing the different approaches to math right now.

 

Question for both of you (or anyone). If I want to use MEP as my core program, and supplement with Singapore, which Singapore materials would serve this purpose well? I've never used Singapore, though I always hear good things about it. Also, how would you match up Singapore levels with MEP levels? Would Year 4 of MEP correspond to 4A/4B of Singapore?

 

Also, Moira, when you mentioned teaching additional mental math techniques, was there a resource you had in mind for this? Or is this just something you can teach on your own? (I am not mathematically inclined enough to do something like that without help or guidance! I'm embarrassed to admit that I learned basic mental arithmetic a lot better by teaching my dd with RightStart!)

[Zoo Keeper]

Greta,

 

I've only done Year 1 and am working through Year 2 in MEP; they have both meshed well with Singapore 1 and 2. I use the Singapore texts, workbooks, extra practice, intensive practice and challlenging word problems. Sometimes the order of topics is different, but that is ok; it just serves a review when it comes up again in the other program. I wouldn't try to make them line up exactly--you'll go nuts! Trust me...:lol:

Edited February 23, 2010 by Zoo Keeper

[Spy Car]

Greta, we are only in Year One, but I'm finding a combination of MEP, Singapore and Miquon are working well for us. All play nicely together, and bring their own strengths.

 

Bill

[Greta]

I wouldn't try to make them line up exactly--you'll go nuts! Trust me...:lol:

 

:D Good advice, I am sure. Just wondered generally if the levels matched up or were a year off. Thanks!

[Greta]

Greta, we are only in Year One, but I'm finding a combination of MEP, Singapore and Miquon are working well for us. All play nicely together, and bring their own strengths.

 

Bill

 

Wow, THREE programs? You are serious about math! :D But I am glad to hear that MEP and Singapore work well together. I think I might give some Singapore materials a try. Maybe MEP as our "core" and Singapore's Extra Practice and Challenging Word Problems as a supplement? What do you think?

[Spy Car]

Wow, THREE programs? You are serious about math! :D

 

I left off a couple things ;) :D

 

But I am glad to hear that MEP and Singapore work well together. I think I might give some Singapore materials a try. Maybe MEP as our "core" and Singapore's Extra Practice and Challenging Word Problems as a supplement? What do you think?

 

I haven't used the EP books, but I'd think about the IP (Intensive Practice) books. We haven't really started the CWP books yet, but laid in the whole series thanks to Moira's warning.

 

I'm also feeling very tempted by Moira's "heads-up" on the Math Express books. One place I know Singapore excels is in providing strategies for mental math and bar diagrams for word problems (and the like). I don't know that we will get that from MEP (although I don't know that we won't).

 

But a MEP-Singapore fusion strikes me as a good thing.

 

Bill

[Amy Jo]

I've used Yrs 1 & 2, and I think MEP is complete so far. I supplement with First Lessons in Arithmetic because it is a mastery approach that includes word problems. I feel better doing that, since I can't do all the MEP activities with just 1 child.

[Poke Salad Annie]

I do supplement MEP, as is shown in my signature line. I don't know that it's necessary, but I do it anyway. We work problems in the book we call "old math" each night after supper. I have another vintage text that I use from the 1950's as well for the same thing. I certainly wouldn't go to great expense to supplement MEP. You could easily print off some of Ray's or one of the many other vintage math texts recommended at Don Potter's website. If you can find some C-rods on the cheap, they are nice to have as well.

 

I also have another vintage text that we are using called Mathematics, the Story of Numbers, Symbols and Space by Irving Adler. Jane in NC recommended this book in an older post. He also wrote The Golden Book of Mathematics, which is a bit more expensive. You might find a number of old math texts from the 1950's at your local thrift store for less than a dollar.

[Zoo Keeper]

Greta,

 

Since you asked about Singapore supplements, I would chose IP over EP. EP is just more of the same type of problems in the workbook. IP has problems still on topic, but more challenging--it also has some word problems. It really is more "intensive."

[Diana B]

Out of curiosity... how long does everyone spend on math? We are using MEP YR 1, and one lesson will take us 30-45 minutes, give or take. We are working slightly below my son's level, but have been doubling up some days when the work is easier.

 

We don't 'supplement' per se, but we do some activities from Family Math. Mostly as 'games' and reinforcement or gentle introduction to various ideas.

 

I just couldn't imagine using more than full program. More than 45 minutes of regular math would just exhaust my son, and he's very math minded.

[Shawna in Texas]

We haven't been using MEP all that long, but I'm really happy with it. I notice that most people using it supplement with something else (or use something else as their core math program and supplement with MEP). I haven't really felt this need, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something. Do you think MEP is not complete in and of itself? What supplements do you think work well with it?

 

This is our first year doing MEP. We are nearly done with Y7. I'm really really impressed with it. We will do Fred Pre-Algebra and Mathematics 6 (Nurk), and after we finish that we will move on to Y8. We also do CWP periodically. The reason we supplement is because there's so many great programs that I'd really like to try. I also use supplements to slow her down a bit. I don't feel like she's quite ready for algebra. She still gets too frustrated when she doesn't quite master a concept. But, math has been pretty smooth for 6 months or so, so I plan to bring in Fred Algebra after MEP Y8. Honestly, I like to keep things interesting.

 

I've looked through the first couple of years and it is my plan with my youngest to do that rather than Singapore. I will still use CWP and I need to research Right Start or another abacus program. My youngest enjoys playing with our abacus quite a bit. She'd sleep with it if we'd let her.

 

I've never used Singapore's Extra Practice, but I definitely wouldn't do away with CWP.

 

Ooh, just remembered. We also do Khan Academy. So far she is mastering one concept a day.

[nmoira]

 

Also, Moira, when you mentioned teaching additional mental math techniques, was there a resource you had in mind for this? Or is this just something you can teach on your own?

If necessary, I'll introduce the basic techniques from Right Start and Singapore, but I'm comfortable doing so without using supplemental material. For more advanced techniques, I selectively use MathExpress Speed Math Strategies series with DD the Elder and will likely do so with her sister when the time comes.

[khall]

We love MEP here and are using year 2 and year 3 with our children. They each have different learning styles, but both really enjoy MEP. I believe it is a complete program and can be used as it stands, with no supplementing. However, we do use games from Family Math and we also use material from livingmath.net. Sometimes we use a game instead of part of one of the practice pages. Or we do a game just for reinforcement. We also use Daily Math Practice from Evan-Moor because we have to test each year and the daily practice is short, to the point, and gives a variety of problems in a more traditional format that they might expect to see when they test.

[lisabees]

If necessary, I'll introduce the basic techniques from Right Start and Singapore, but I'm comfortable doing so without using supplemental material. For more advanced techniques, I selectively use MathExpress Speed Math Strategies series with DD the Elder and will likely do so with her sister when the time comes.

 

Loving this! Thanks for sharing. :thumbup:

[Greta]

One place I know Singapore excels is in providing strategies for mental math and bar diagrams for word problems (and the like). I don't know that we will get that from MEP (although I don't know that we won't).

 

But a MEP-Singapore fusion strikes me as a good thing.

 

Bill

 

:thumbup1: Thanks Bill!

[Greta]

For more advanced techniques, I selectively use MathExpress Speed Math Strategies series with DD the Elder and will likely do so with her sister when the time comes.

 

Thanks, these look very interesting!

[Greta]

We love MEP here and are using year 2 and year 3 with our children. They each have different learning styles, but both really enjoy MEP. I believe it is a complete program and can be used as it stands, with no supplementing. However, we do use games from Family Math and we also use material from livingmath.net. Sometimes we use a game instead of part of one of the practice pages. Or we do a game just for reinforcement. We also use Daily Math Practice from Evan-Moor because we have to test each year and the daily practice is short, to the point, and gives a variety of problems in a more traditional format that they might expect to see when they test.

 

We used RightStart initially, and I still have the card games book. Games do seem to make a good supplement, if nothing else, because dd does not feel like they are "school work". :D I tend to forget about livingmath.net. Thanks for the reminder!

[Greta]

I've used Yrs 1 & 2, and I think MEP is complete so far. I supplement with First Lessons in Arithmetic because it is a mastery approach that includes word problems. I feel better doing that, since I can't do all the MEP activities with just 1 child.

 

I do supplement MEP, as is shown in my signature line. I don't know that it's necessary, but I do it anyway. We work problems in the book we call "old math" each night after supper. I have another vintage text that I use from the 1950's as well for the same thing. I certainly wouldn't go to great expense to supplement MEP. You could easily print off some of Ray's or one of the many other vintage math texts recommended at Don Potter's website. If you can find some C-rods on the cheap, they are nice to have as well.

 

I also have another vintage text that we are using called Mathematics, the Story of Numbers, Symbols and Space by Irving Adler. Jane in NC recommended this book in an older post. He also wrote The Golden Book of Mathematics, which is a bit more expensive. You might find a number of old math texts from the 1950's at your local thrift store for less than a dollar.

 

 

Thank you both, I will look into these!

[Greta]

Out of curiosity... how long does everyone spend on math? . . .

 

More than 45 minutes of regular math would just exhaust my son, and he's very math minded.

 

Personally, I think at his age, that sounds perfect! That should be plenty. MEP at my daughter's level is also about 45 minutes (designed for classrooms of course), but I think she can handle a bit more, so that's why I'm planning to supplement. I don't think you need to add anything, though, at least not yet. Better to get 45 good minutes of math than an hour of distraction and resistance, right? :)

[Greta]

I've looked through the first couple of years and it is my plan with my youngest to do that rather than Singapore. I will still use CWP and I need to research Right Start or another abacus program. My youngest enjoys playing with our abacus quite a bit. She'd sleep with it if we'd let her.

 

We used RightStart, and absolutely loved the first two levels. It gave my daughter a good foundation, and I am so happy we invested the time and money into it. I haven't used it myself, but I've heard good things about the abacus activities book. That might be something to consider if you didn't want to use their full program.

 

 

Ooh, just remembered. We also do Khan Academy. So far she is mastering one concept a day.

 

I'd never heard of this before. Looks like it's video based? My dd would love that!

 

Thanks for your informative post!

[Poke Salad Annie]

Okay, to throw one more monkey wrench in the whole discussion, I've been spending a bit of time looking at the videos at the CSMP website. I watched the video which shows 1st graders working through the problem:

 

2x + 55 = 133

 

I am amazed at how this is demonstrated to the students and also at their willing participation during the class. This looks great for setting up those ideas early for algebraic thinking. I've already printed off the 3rd grade Primary Entry Supplement, so I think I'm going to jump in and start working with this a couple of days a week. I'd like to see what kind of response I get from these lessons, then decide if we want to pursue it further.

[Greta]

Okay, to throw one more monkey wrench in the whole discussion, I've been spending a bit of time looking at the videos at the CSMP website. I watched the video which shows 1st graders working through the problem:

 

2x + 55 = 133

 

I am amazed at how this is demonstrated to the students and also at their willing participation during the class. This looks great for setting up those ideas early for algebraic thinking. I've already printed off the 3rd grade Primary Entry Supplement, so I think I'm going to jump in and start working with this a couple of days a week. I'd like to see what kind of response I get from these lessons, then decide if we want to pursue it further.

 

That is impressive! But I have to ask, what is CSMP?

[Poke Salad Annie]

Already answered by Spy Car below..

 

Watch the film about the first graders doing the linear equation with arrows and the mini-computer. I could see myself and my child working those kinds of problems all day and having a great deal of fun!

Edited February 23, 2010 by Poke Salad Annie

[Spy Car]

That is impressive! But I have to ask, what is CSMP?

 

The Comprehensive School Mathematics Program. It is a (now commercially defunct) experimental mathematics program that had a similar mission to MEP (improving math education, this time in the USA) although the methods are quite dissimilar from MEP (and anything else I've ever seen).

 

The Program archives and materials are kept alive on-line (and like MEP) can be downloaded and used without cost. It is very interesting, and very non-traditional.

 

http://ceure.buffalostate.edu/~csmp/

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

http://ceure.buffalostate.edu/~csmp/

 

Here it is. Watch the film about the first graders doing the linear equation with arrows and the mini-computer. I could see myself and my child working those kinds of problems all day and having a great deal of fun!

 

My son loves the mini-computer, and it's proved a good way to "freak-out" his mother, our extended family, and friends, who just can't seem to wrap their heads around our secret code :D

 

Bill

[Shawna in Texas]

 

 

I'd never heard of this before. Looks like it's video based? My dd would love that!

 

Mostly it is. I'm going to try a direct link here. It's an app program that you master a set of problems. Then you move on. Once you get to a place that you need instruction, you can go back and watch the videos.

[stripe]

I also have another vintage text that we are using called Mathematics, the Story of Numbers, Symbols and Space by Irving Adler. Jane in NC recommended this book in an older post. He also wrote The Golden Book of Mathematics, which is a bit more expensive.

I just bought a copy of a book whose cover shows:

 

Mathematics

by Irving Adler

Illustrated by Ron Miller

 

which is somewhat BASIC-themed (and has a computer on cover). It's a large hardcover, 46 p long. For many, but not all, of the short sections, there are instructions on how to program something of the sort in BASIC, e.g. square numbers, polygons, climbing the number ladder.

 

Is this the same book?

[Mommee & Baba]

I've been using MEP with both my K'er & 1st Grader and I love how the lessons are "thinker" lessons for the students.

 

For us personally I only supplement with activites that are hands on that pertain to the lessons in MEP. This leaves not only myself but both my children un-confused. I am not a big math gooroo and when I found MEP I fell in love.

 

I plan on continuing to use it next year as well with not additional curriculum to supplement, only following up with additional hands on activities (if needed) for each lesson.

[Poke Salad Annie]

I just bought a copy of a book whose cover shows:

 

Mathematics

by Irving Adler

Illustrated by Ron Miller

 

which is somewhat BASIC-themed (and has a computer on cover). It's a large hardcover, 46 p long. For many, but not all, of the short sections, there are instructions on how to program something of the sort in BASIC, e.g. square numbers, polygons, climbing the number ladder.

 

Is this the same book?

 

No, it's not. The one I referred to has a blue cover and orange spine, and says Golden Library of Knowledge at the bottom of the front cover. It is by Irving Adler, but it is illustrated by Lowell Hess. It is copyright 1961, 1958 by Golden Press. My copy is 54 pages long. The book measures 9 1/2" X 7". The title is Mathematics The Story of Numbers, Symbols, and Space.

[stripe]

Oh, blah. Guess we'll be learning BASIC instead. Snort. At least it's not LOGO! ;)

[Poke Salad Annie]

Oh dear, that just won't do.

 

On a more positive note, maybe you can come back and share how well you're doing. That will give us all something else to discuss, and it could prove quite enlightening! ;)

 

Sorry I wasn't more descriptive in my earlier post. With those vintage books it's so hard to know if you're getting the correct one. If I post any more titles, I'll do my best to include as many details as possible, k?

[stripe]

It has some interesting things in it, to be fair to the poor book!