For those of you who feed their dogs raw food...

[Wyndie]

can you explain the basics to me? I am reading up on it after hearing about it here yesterday. I have a weak constitution and don't think I could stand bloody meat being ripped apart in my dining room. I do not have a fenced in back yard yet so the dog would need to eat in the house.

 

What kind of mess does it make? If I put him in his kennel, would it be contained? What's cleanup like? Does the dog have bloody meat breath?

 

I am very interested in going raw with him but I know my limits. If I can find a way to deal with it, I think it would be wonderful for him.

[SonshineLearner]

Depending on what type of storage you have for it, it's really very easy. Depending on how you want to present it... it's just popping the meat into whatever you want to serve it in.. I think the easiest way is to train them to eat in the bath or shower. You then do an easy scrub down. It's really not a big deal. Also, how big is your dog? I do a quarter of a chicken at a time. For beef, I do beef hearts, kidneys, ox tail (cow tail), things like this... about 1.5 lbs for a 63 lb dog. I do about 8 eggs and some snacks... something like this.. I feel his bones to make sure he's keeping enough weight on...

 

Ask away! It's easy:-)

 

:-)

[Wyndie]

Thanks for your reply Carrie.

 

I have a deep freezer so meat storage is no problem.

 

My husband is open to me exploring this but said no chicken so we're going to talk to the butcher today and see what they generally cast away or what bones they have for cheap.

 

Our boy is an 80 lb siberian husky. Just got him yesterday from the local rescue. He's 5ish years old but has an arthritic type gimp (they said he's had it since they rescued him 1 month ago). From what I"m reading, going raw should help.

 

By scrub down do you mean a bath? As in, he will need a bath after every meal? How often do they need to eat? I'm getting mixed reviews on that question...

 

Where do you get your meat?

 

Thanks for your help! I have to wrap my head around this but I think that even getting organic bones/meat will be cheap and healthier for him than this super expensive organic dog food we bought. :)

[hornblower]

You can feed in the crate. I know someone who feeds in a bathtub. Generally speaking, they'll lick it all clean.

 

For messy meals I started off using a large plastic tablecloth on the floor. Hwvr my dogs figured out that they're not to wander around with their food and now I just give them an old towel as a placemat & it goes into the wash after. (Old towels become dog towels for meals & for drying them off when we come in from the rain.)

 

You can also choose to feed ground meat & bone which comes in a package & you plop it into a bowl. That's no more messy than feeding canned food. My current foster had to have dental surgery & a couple extractions so I didn't want him gnawing at the beginning & his mouth was sore so he got exclusively ground meat & bone. Still many of the benefits of raw without the mess.

 

A couple weeks later I tried him on a turkey neck and he's been getting more rmb (raw meaty bone) meals since then mixed in with the ground.

 

Commercially prepared ground raw can be expensive but if you can find a butcher where you buy it in bulk, it ends up as inexpensive as good quality kibble. I use ground meat & bone meals for about 60%-70% of the meals for all the dogs here.

 

There is no meaty breath - their breath becomes very good, in fact, and the teeth will gradually clean up as well.

 

best wishes ~

[Wyndie]

Ok, so let me get this straight. You have ground meat and meat bone. Is the meat bone ground up IN the meat or is that seperate but in the same bowl/towel/whatever? Is bone meal a powder supplement?

 

He just had his teeth cleaned and the thought of brushing his teeth is too much for me (lol) so I'm all for his teeth getting cleaned naturally!

 

Is their face messy after eating? As in, will I need to wipe bloody residue off?

 

I'm sorry to sound so goofy, I just want to really know what I'm doing before I do it. This is not one of those things I want to jump into without being prepared. :)

[Wyndie]

Oh, and how often do you feed your dogs hornblower?

[SonshineLearner]

Oh, sorry about the confusion. I meant that I feed him in the tub. The chicken I use because of ease... in between going to the meat plant that I get the rest of his food from. It's less because of 69 cents a pound I can get it for. For 80lbs, is it... about 2lbs a day or so?? I think I figured out that the dog food I was going to buy was about $4 a feeding for my dog... (well, that's for the whole day). I feed my dog once a day at night... or in the morning... For mine, it doesn't matter exactly when. The beef I get for 99 cents a lb. So, I try to get at least 20lbs at a time. It's not organic... but it's what we can do... and I can see that it works well for him. I feed a heart or so... or a kidney and part of an ox tail. When I first started, I measured out exactly portions, and if I had a large enough freezer to fix a month or two at a time, I would probably do that.

It's really easy to get all the parts that you're going to use... cut up in portions that freeze well.. and freeze in one day meals. Then you just pull out a couple at a time to thaw.

For us, I don't have an extra freezer, so I go to the butcher spot, get a ton... put it in the bottom crisper... that has an overflow from the freezer... and feed out of there. Then... when I'm out.. .I feed some chicken and eggs till I go back.

Hornblower is much better, I think.... about mixing it up and such. I got my pup who was about 2 years or so... from the Humane Society.... he had bad skin.. hair... and such... and was on Benadryl twice a day... and then I did raw... and now he's basically great! Only itches if I don't Frontline him enough....

:-)

[hornblower]

It's ground right in. Different companies will grind it to different sizes - the ones I use have noticeable chunks of bone, like maybe 1-2 grains of uncooked long grain rice. This food is fine for my big guys but my raw-friendly vet is not keen on it for smaller dogs. She recommends a finer ground product for her little clients.

 

It's ground bone is from poultry. Beef bones don't grind well though some commercial products contain bone meal or bone dust from beef.

 

People who feed 'prey model' raw would never feed it ground because they, well, like to feed it like prey - ie in a big chunk. Hwvr, I'm not a purist & I feed all kinds of things.

 

If you check out http://www.diamondpaws.com/health/barf.htm

I do a variation of the adult menu

 

Oh & I feed twice a day. I have large dogs & I do think it helps prevent bloat. I also use treats during the day when I train & I can adjust the pm meal down if they've had a lot of treats (esp my malamute X is prone to getting chubby so I have to watch her carefully). At the same time, I have to give them breakfast because if they're too hungry when I'm training I find that they don't focus as well. It's a balance - I want them hungry enough to be interested in the treats & doing what I ask them to do, but not so hungry that they obsess about the treats and stop thinking.

 

I don't wipe their faces. They're clean when they're done.

 

I do feed ground meals in stainless steel bowls and I put them through the dishwasher pretty much daily.

 

The dogs have their own section of the fridge where I thaw out their portions & about 2/3 of the upright freezer is theirs.

 

I highly recommend that if you have a craigslist for your town, post there in the pet section asking for info about where people are buying their raw. My raw supplier doesn't advertise - he's a butcher who does a HUGE business selling bulk packs of raw to the public but you hear about him by word of mouth. He gets game in once in a while too which is great for the dogs (though I save that for the summer because game STINKS so they get it on the deck).

[Stacia]

Not to hijack, but does anyone have info, websites, etc... to do something similar w/ cats?

 

Thanks! :001_smile:

[Peela]

Ours just get a whole variety of whatever we can get on special or what the butcher or supermarket has when we visit. Often its chicken necks because one of our dogs is small and she can eat them more easily (its only COOKED chicken bones you cant give to dogs, because they splinter- raw ones are fine). We often find the butcher cuts his cow bones too big for even our medium sized dog.

We also can get roo meat. When we had a cat, she loved that, to the point of being rather addicted. The dogs like it ok but we dont get it too often- its very low in fat which acutalyl isnt such a good thing necessarily. We often buy pet mince which has bones ground up in it.

Basically, we dont stick to any one meat or bone- we rotate. We also toss in scraps from whatever leftovers we have. When I am feeling enthusiastic and I have bought some sort of mince, I will add in all sorts of supplements- yoghurt, cheese, various powders like spirulina, grated raw vegies, garlic, fish oil caspules etc

I bag the meat and/or bones in small freezer bags when I buy it- one bag per meal per dog. Dh takes 2 bags (one for each dog) out of the freezer at night and leaves them on the sink to defrost overnight. In the morning he feeds Little Dog in her crate before letting her outside. She is highly strung and wont eat unless he does this. Big Dog gets her food chucked over the verandah. She eats it very quickly unless it is a big cow bone.

Theres no mess. Little Dog eat in her crate but she has a rug in there and we put her dog bowl in there too when she's eating. We wash the rug every now and then. It doesnt smell.

I guess also...the meat we get or teh bones arent realyl dripping with blood or anything.

One benefit is that raw meaty bones make for easy to clean up doggy doos. They are very dry and go to white powder quickly.

[Wyndie]

Thank you for all the responses!

 

I talked to the butcher at WF today and they said they get chicken backs sometimes and they had some kind of bone packaged up right there but I didn't catch what animal - I think cow. She said when she tried to switch her dog to raw, he got terrible diarrhea and she went back to packaged food. Is that normal during a switch over?

 

She told me that if we use bones, we need to add ground meat as well. Makes sense as there wasn't much meat on the bones they had there. I know dogs will overeat packaged food, will they overeat raw or will they stop when full?

 

My children and I eat organic meat so I was thinking of feeding the dog only organic as well. What are you thoughts on feeding non-organic? Since dogs don't digest grains, I thought it would be important for the animal they eat also be free from grains. Does that really matter? WF said their chickens are natural but they do eat grain. My husband is still against me using chicken b/c of the bones. I will tell him about the cooked/raw difference and see if that helps...

 

I don't want to tie up my dog but if I have to feed him outside, is it acceptable to tie him to a post for the length of the meal or should I just let him roam with it? I don't have a fence yet.

 

Thank you for all the information.

[Liz CA]

Often its chicken necks because one of our dogs is small and she can eat them more easily (its only COOKED chicken bones you cant give to dogs, because they splinter- raw ones are fine).

 

 

What Peela wrote above is important. Yes, you can feed chicken but only raw chicken.

Well, I have a 100lb dog and the rule of thumb I learned when we began, was this: Feed 2-3% of the dog's weight in meat

per day. We feed twice a day but I don't think there is a hard and fast rule about this.

We get a lot of ground meat, along with large cow bones and also pork.

The dog's breath is always unoffensive (Oh God I can still remember the breath of my other dogs when they were fed kibble), they rarely have allergies or scratching fits.

I do have to say, it's messier than just filling a bowl with kibble. The plastic tablecloth on the floor is a good way to go. Our big girl eats outside most of the time. When she gets her paws on a particularly juicy bone, she often opts to bury it for later instead of eating it on the spot.

So, sometimes we see her with a well-seasoned bone on her outside bed, gnawing away.

 

Most people who have done this for a long time confirm that the dogs live longer because the diet is much closer to what they were designed to eat than the ingredients in the average bag of kibble.

Our rottweiler (now deceased) was on kibble for 11 years. He looked like he was going to go soon when I switched over to raw meat when we got the mastiff. He recovered and lived to be 14!

Edited February 22, 2010 by Liz CA

[Liz CA]

Not to hijack, but does anyone have info, websites, etc... to do something similar w/ cats?

 

Thanks! :001_smile:

 

Stacia, there was a Yahoo group about cats and raw food. I saw it when I first learned about raw food for dogs. If you search on Yahoo you are bound to find lots of info.

[lavender]

If you are squeemish (like me) and still can't get used to the cleanup, you might try The Honest Kitchen. This is a company in California that has raw freeze dried meat, fruits, and veggies mixes for dogs and cats. It's a chucky powder that looks like stew when rehydrated. You simply measure out the amount you need from the box, add warm water, stir, wait 5 minutes for it to rehydrate, and feed. Simple, no mess, no fuss. They have chicken, turkey, and beef varieties, some of which are grain free.

 

There's also a company from New Zealand called Addiction tat has similar stew mixes. They offer lamb, venison, chicken, and brushtail mixes.

 

Oh, and BTW both of these company's products are available at most local boutique-style pet stores. Just a thought.

Edited February 22, 2010 by lavender

[hornblower]

Not to hijack, but does anyone have info, websites, etc... to do something similar w/ cats?

 

Thanks! :001_smile:

 

 

http://www.catinfo.org/makingcatfood.htm

 

http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.php

 

:001_smile:

[Wyndie]

For those who only feed a certain % raw, how do you do it? Do you feed kibble for one meal and raw for another? I imagine any raw at all is better than none right?

 

I spoke with the girl who runs the rescue we got him at. She said she used to do raw but the prep work was too time consuming and bloody. She gave me the name of the kibble she uses now and I will look at it but I'm wondering if just giving him a bit of raw meat or chicken back now and then, in addition to his kibble would be ok?

[hornblower]

There's a lot of controversy about mixing kibble and raw. I have heard some people say that it is dangerous because the transit time in the gut is different. Some people think it can cause obstruction etc. The other issue is that if the kibble is there in the gut taking a long time to be digested, then the raw meal that comes after might be sitting there backed up and then potentially the bacterial loads might become a problem.

 

 

Having said that, even when I did feed kibble, I've always given recreational raw bones q ~ 2 weeks.

 

One of my dogs has a pretty solid gut - nothing fazes her. My setter is more sensitive and I would not change him around too much.

[Wyndie]

Thanks Hornblower. I can certainly give him bones while I try to figure out what I'm doing. ;) I am going to take him to the fancy-schmancy pet stores tomorrow and get an idea of pricing for prepackaged raw. My DH laughed at me tonight when I told him I just can't do the bloody prep (he knows, he's had to clean up my puke) and maybe he can do it. From the link you posted yesterday it looks like some prep is necessary, it's not as simple as plunking down a bunch of meat in a bowl and never touching it. Mixing in supplements to raw meat would be my undoing. I will continue looking at options here.

 

He is SOOO inactive. I can't imagine his diet is helping, no matter how wonderful the organic kibble is. We had friends over tonight who commented on how drugged he seemed. We have a vet appt in 2 weeks and I'm hoping he is just sleeping thru the adjustment period. Either that or he is way older than they told us. I am content with a sleeping rug that likes attention on occassion but if he's this way b/c of his diet, I've got to do something.

 

Thank you all for your patience with my questions.

[SonshineLearner]

I have to say that my pup is pretty darn healthy. I don't supplement... if I did... it'd be something that wouldn't be gross... like a vitamin.. or salmon oil. No big deal and not hard. I literally eye about the right amount... throw it in the shower or tub.. He eats, and I do a 30 second scrub down. It is SO easy. And, it's SO different than when I touch meat for us. I HATE touching meat. I could be a vegetarian.. but for some reason plunking his down is SO different. It took a couple days to get use to it. I first had to cut it in 1 inch chunks... and feed it to him... Now... he'll rip a chicken apart...

 

:-)

[Wyndie]

Thank you Carrie. :)

[hornblower]

I don't really mix or handle it lots.

I supplement with salmon oil - but that just involves throwing in a capsule.

I do usually give a doggie multivitamin, but again, that's just chucking in a tablet.

I vary their meals so every couple weeks they get green raw tripe, raw salmon, liver or other organ, eggs, yogurt, blueberries (not all together - just one new thing each day but eventually it means that every two weeks they get some variety in addition to their base meals).

 

Tripe is the grossest because it smells like a cow pooped in your kitchen. The dogs adore it. :D

 

When I feed chicken backs, turkey necks, lamb necks etc, I just drop it on their mats out of the plastic bag. When I feed the ground - mine comes in big cubes which I bag in ziplocs so again I just plop it into their bowls. I do fork it to crumble it because one of mine is a gulper and he'd swallow the whole brick. Luckily he doesn't gulp bones - it's just the ground he's a dork with. It's not really gross and after a while you just get used to it - kind of like pooper scooping.

 

Oh and speaking of that, pooper scooping after raw fed dogs is much nicer than kibble dogs. Much less poop, much less smelly. After really boney meals, if you leave their 'product' on the grass, it just dries out into dust. Poof and it's gone.

[SonshineLearner]

I don't really mix or handle it lots.

I supplement with salmon oil - but that just involves throwing in a capsule.

I do usually give a doggie multivitamin, but again, that's just chucking in a tablet.

 

 

Green Tripe isn't available here... darn... (ugh.. the thought... you lovvvve your dogs:-)

 

What kinda multivitamin do you give?? (Brownie's 63 lbs...)

 

I just told my husband today, that I am going to try to start adding to the pup's meat... He actually looks great! But, he's 4.5 now... so I should try to add a bit for him:-)

[hornblower]

Green Tripe isn't available here... darn... (ugh.. the thought... you lovvvve your dogs:-)

 

you sure? tripett canned is widely avail in pet shops if you can't find raw & I think it's almost as good nutritionally. http://www.tripett.com/

The dogs love it as much as fresh. It stinks less than fresh :D

 

What kinda multivitamin do you give?? (Brownie's 63 lbs...)

 

 

just ran out of my 1800petmeds multi. I'm checking for a local brand just because the shipping from 1800petmeds sucks for me.

 

I know some folks who use a kids chewable & I know that the vet on the dolittler blog recommended that in the past.

[Wyndie]

I looked at the frozen prepared raw foods today. Good night, they're expensive! He's a big boy so he would go thru a bag in two days if I gave what was recommended. :(

[hornblower]

That's why I suggested you post on craigslist or on local dog boards for info on wholesaler butchers.

 

I'm feeding over 200lb of dogs now & they're all on raw. I get most of it at between $1 & 1.30/lb. About 20% of their intake is closer to $2/lb.

 

This is nothing compared to the frozen stuff sold in the pet shops which runs up to $4-6/lb. There's no way I can afford to feed that but the stuff from the wholesaler works out to similar to premium kibbles.

 

~ best wishes

[Wyndie]

Well DH went and bought him some bones. He couldn't wait. :D Blue LOVED it. He had trouble adjusting to it for a few minutes b/c he's used to gulping his food down but thanks to the links here, DH and I were prepared to help him. He got the hang of it fast.

 

Can dogs eat raw pork? We found a butcher that will give us a package deal:

10 lbs ground beef

10 center cut pork chops

1 round steak

5 cube steaks

3 cut-up chickens

1 chuck roast

 

for $70.00

 

I think that will last quite a while. Doesn't seem like much bone in there though. I also am not sure about pork chops. It's not organic and I'm not a fan of pig at all...

 

Where do I get bone meal?

[SonshineLearner]

Well, I don't know about others... I don't feed my dog pork. For $70, I would walk away with 70lbs of heart, kidney, and just a bit of liver. Tongue and the oxtails would be great, too. Bone meal should be a matter of asking for it. It's 5 cents a pound for me. You can kinda make "meat balls" with it... The chicken I purchase is 69 cents a pound for the whole chicken. I've purchased chicken hearts etc... (including chicken feet) from a guy who as organic chickens... He just asked his butcher for the left overs... They were about $1.00 a pound. For me, your "deal" wouldn't be so great. Just want you to get the best deal!! PS, don't forget to ask for any heart, kidneys etc... from any goats and lambs they slaughter. My pup loves those!! To make it less messy, you can kinda portion it out based on the weight you need... into ziploc bags. I usually reuse ziplocks when I do this.. kinda over and over... by just popping the used ones into the freezer to use again... (of course... just for my pup's meat.)

[hornblower]

I have given my guys pork trimmings - like when once in a blue moon I'll make pork chops for dh. I dump all the stuff I cut off into the dogs bowls.

 

HWVR, I would not feed pork generally speaking. Trichinosis is I think a real threat.

 

I also don't feed raw salmon due to salmon poisoning disease (which is also due to a parasite). BTW, you can feed canned salmon or salmon that's been deep frozen for a long time as these methods kill the parasite - I do this often. Other fish you can feed raw; my female loves raw herring and she just eats the whole thing.

 

I think your package is too much meat, not enough bone. It would be ok if you added a lot of RMB (raw meaty bone) to the diet 3-5 x a week.

 

If you look at the bottom of this page http://www.freshstartrawfoodfordogs.com/products.html

you'll see what rmb's look like.

 

eta- I agree with Carrie about finding organ meats, tongue, tripe, etc. I would not feed brain due to prion diseases.

And yes, Ziploc bags are your friend. If you take out frozen bones or rmb's from a bag, and put in a solid container to thaw, then the bag doesn't get goopy and can be reused many times. I have a whole stash of bags in my freezer which are just for the dog food. If you thaw in the bag, depending on what is in there the bag can get goopy but can also be turned inside out & washed in the sink. It's just easier to wash out a solid container than the bags which is why I prefer to thaw outside of the bags.

Edited March 2, 2010 by hornblower

[SonshineLearner]

I have to say Hornblower... everytime I look at what your animal kiddos get... I just think how lucky they are. Wow!! If you weren't to get the bones for that many times a week, wouldn't bone dust work out? It helps my pup do ok with the other... at least.

As far as fish, I'd like to try some... Is it just the same as chicken bones? I don't worry about that, at this point, since he just crunches through it...

The Herring would be good. I'm not sure how much it would cost. How often do you do fish?? Also, when you do Salmon, is that with bones and all?? I would be willing to purchase some canned fish, but have always been a little bit hesitant. I do know that he knows how to discern what to "not eat". I gave him our cooked chicken leftovers... and some how I had left about 3 bones in it. He kinda just picked them out and put them over to the side... Weird thing is I was just thinking about being careful... and it just happened that time!! (And yes, I'll be more careful!)

 

:-)

[hornblower]

LOL - you know what the ultimate irony is? My guys are absolute carb junkies. I think my malamute would do almost anything for a piece of bread. It's very convenient to be able to use a piece of toast to train with :D

 

I have no experience with bone dust because I've always given them meat with bone.... the ground chicken/turkey/duck I buy comes with bone ground in. Beef is the only ground meal that I feed regularly which doesn't have bone in it & when I feed that, or one of their "special meals", I give rmb's the next day or the next meal (I feed twice a day).

 

For their 'special meals' I feed organs/green tripe/salmon/other fish/eggs about once every week to two weeks. The rest of their diet is a variety of ground and rmb's (usually turkey necks or chicken frames). I try to rotate through types of meats but chicken and turkey are the staples.

 

For salmon, lately I've been using Merricks' Before Grain canned salmon

http://www.beforegrain.com/ The bones in canned fish are very soft. The human grade canned salmon is the same - you can mash the bones with a fork. The frozen salmon I've had was just fillets I got on super sale. I'm not sure if I'd leave a big spinal column but whatever bones are in a fillet were fine for my guys. I think this is something which would depend on a dog's size and their eating style. Sounds like your guy is very clever :)

 

The herring is whole, bone in. They just eat the whole thing. They're about 6-8 in long fish. One of the local pet food companies here makes ground herring meals but they're kind of expensive. The whole frozen herring are a better deal if you can convince a dog to eat them. I have had to whirl it in a food processor for a foster dog who couldn't figure out how to eat it. After a while I just barely chopped it & then eventually he just ate it whole. I had to get him to eating liver the same way..... he was a bit of a dork.

 

Green tripe I buy either frozen or canned.

 

The organ meats are frozen.

 

Most times I'm just grabbing bags at random from the freezer. My biggest problem is remembering to bring up food from the freezer to thaw in the fridge. It seems like I'm always running out of thawed stuff & frantically chiselling at frozen blocks.

 

BTW, in a pinch (guess how I figured this out LOL) you can give a dog a fozen brick and they gnaw it like a bone. I used to worry about it giving them brain freeze or hurting their teeth (like ice cream can hurt our teeth) but they've never complained. If anything, they seem to enjoy it.

[Wyndie]

Thanks ladies. I appreciate you looking after my $$ interests as well. :D I continue to educate myself and appreciate you taking time to help me. I will stay away from pork for sure, we don't eat it here anyway and I almost feel like if I wouldn't eat it, I don't want the dog to eat it...but I don't eat chicken bones, tongue or organ meat either so that line of thinking doesn't always work. ;)

 

:grouphug:

[Wyndie]

I think Blue has decided it's raw or bust! He has ignored his kibble all day and we only had one rmb left in the fridge so we tried it and he's chowing down. Guess I'll be doing a crash course study on all I have left to figure out b/c I think I'll be shopping for him tomorrow. lol

 

So can I still use kibble for treats? He does love his treats and we are planning to put him thru obedience class with my son (he's my sons dog but he only listens to me) and would use kibble for rewards. My parents lost their dog 2 weeks ago and they just came this weekend and gave me all her unused kibble/toys/things so we have an excess of dog food here right now! How often are treat acceptable for a raw fed dog?

[SonshineLearner]

If you're just doing raw because of health... but no allergies... it's probably fine. Of course, I actually would choose not to purposely give the regular kibble to my pup. I have done cut up weiners for my pup... (ok.. so I admit.. the kosher no filler ones when they get "too old" for humans) But, if the dog isn't having trouble with grain, it shouldn't be a big deal. For me though, I try for no grain.. so I do stuff like dried beef heart... and no grain treats..

 

:-)

[Wyndie]

Ok. Well we know he's a fan of Applegate Farms hot dogs so maybe a pocket full of those during obedience training wouldn't be too weird. lol

 

Another question: he ate off and swallowed a chunk of bone from his rmb tonight. How will I know if it's causing him a problem? I feel like a first time mom here, worrying about every single thing. :lol:

[Wyndie]

. Mixing in supplements to raw meat would be my undoing.

 

But I did it anyway! Yay me! :lol: I bought some ground meat yesterday at the store and while Nathan had him outside for his morning walk, I mixed up his meat, glucosamine and cod liver oil. He nearly dragged Nathan thru the house to get to the kitchen! lol It was disgusting but not nearly at gross as watching him tear the ligaments off a bone.

 

So when you feed fish, you just give them the whole thing right there? Do you cut off the head and tail or just toss a whole thing their way? The rmb that I"m getting from the store doens't have a lot of meat on it so is that more of a treat or should that be a meal?

 

He's definately perking up. I had a feeling his lethargy was related to his food and he's showing it to be so. My son has the cuts and bruises to show that this tired old dog is now ready to run. lol He's always been so sedate that Nathan was not prepared when he tried to run yesterday and Nathan sacrificed his knees and hands to get the leash back. :D He's got more eye contact and wags his tail more (he didn't wag at all for the first few days we had him) and has more energy. I still feel like I don't have it all figured out but I"m getting there and am happy to see him respond. I can't wait to get a fence so I can just toss the stuff outside though. :tongue_smilie:

[SonshineLearner]

So, now's your time to start training. I use a pinch collar... because that's what I started with. I don't really have to click it (or pinch him) anymore because he's really good. Hornblower thinks that's a bit too wicked :w00t:... and so she has some good suggestions for positive training with different methods. Either way, now's a good time to get him training. Recall training has saved the day for my dog and me more than once... as even though I'm pretty lazy now... the training I did when I first got him.... has remained pretty well :-)

 

 

And, I do have to say... that if you do some type of "metal collar" like a pinch.... I would recommend pinch over choke... and German made at that... (they're better) and don't think I'm a Pearl ite with this... I don't go around pinching my pup all the time.... And... I don't think anyone should use it without understanding what it does... and how to do it... and to well... I don't know when I got it... it saved my dog. I could not walk him without it.... and I used it till I could get him to walk without killing me (he came to us at 2 and was VERY strong) I now have a happy healthy.... dog who I take around in my van.... and he LOVES me... me especially... and will come back tail wagging... when he really wants to chase a cat or whatever.... (which is really nice when your kids are being snots ... to have a dog who just loves you.)

 

BUT, if I had a puppy... and I didn't start with a full grown dog... then Hornblower's clicker training and other positives would have been great. I'm still interested.... :D

[Wyndie]

I just contacted a trainer after I posted here. :D They will come to the house to help the owner/dog bond better and help with training. I hope it's not expensive b/c Nathan spent most of his money buying the dog and his STUFF! I will look into the pinch collar; he is fine with me but Nathan is a lightweight and he doesn't respect him at all so something to show him he has to listen to Nathan is probably going to be necessary for a bit. He does love me best but probably b/c I'm the food dispenser. ;)

 

Thank you for the information on training. He's such a wonderful dog and I want him to enjoy his boy as much as he can. Did you do all the training yourself or did you have a trainer help?

[SonshineLearner]

I went to a trainer that trains for Schutzhund training and he trains police dogs in the area. They are actually very positive and it was a great experience. When I first got my dog I fudged on having a fence. My husband had just torn it down to rebuild it. (SO I knew it wasn't forever). I walked him 3 times a day.. so about 2.5-3 hrs a day. After the first week, I got to start training. Of course, by then... every muscle from my head to my ankles were just exhausted!! and stretched... and I had lost some serious weight. BUT, I couldn't be sore forever and the walks were just draining. After the very first training session I could walk him with pleasure. He is a smart, great dog. It was enjoyable to have him walk gently ... but normal for a dog... and then to take him to a fenced area and just let him run. (He loves those toys where you throw the ball far... and they chase it.) One thing that helps with recall... is you throw it... and on their way back, you command "Come". They come straight back to in front of you. You say... "Sit" and then... "OK" and you do it all over again. :-) My dog can do this for a long time. This training... by saying all of it once.... helps recall. You want them to come and sit... so that they don't come back straight by you...into say.. the street. This can literally save their life. One thing... that is important... is not to command over and over... you want them to come the first time...

I would also recommend someone that you find that is at a professional level. Mine I found through a friend. I would not do anything that is with someone who is not really trained. (So, no petsmart, petco...etc...)

 

Mine is fortunately inexpensive. $85 for two months... $15 for the collar...... and it's for the life time of the dog. I went every week for 8 weeks. It was amazing to see the difference in the dogs... from the first week-the last week.

 

I'm sure that there is a way to find good "positive only" trainers, too. I would ask Hornblower, if she doesn't respond without asking:-) to lmk a good way to find "trained trainers" :-)

 

As always, I admire Hornblower's response, and respect that she's found purely positive ways of training. I just needed a more immediate response... and it's what I found that worked. She knows I still don't have my pup trained to not be on the counters... I'm gonna work on that some year. :-)

[Wyndie]

As Hornblower suggested, I put an add on craigslist to see if anyone knew of a wholesale butcher. Got a wackadoo email from someone accusing me of looking for this bloody meat to make my dog a killer. Wha?!?!?!?! Crazy person. Anywho... I replied nicely that she needed to educate herself about the benefits of raw foods for animals and that some people feed their animals this way for health reasons.

 

I also went to the holistic store and got their pre-made patties. I am just afraid to do my own, I feel like I'm not going to give him enough all-round nutrition. Probably crazy on my part but I don't feel confident to mix my own. We'll see how long we can keep that up before dh insists I go cheaper. ;)

 

He had his first vet visit today. Went to a holistic vet and she was awesome. Noticed he has something wrong with his spine but is willing to wait it out for a month to see if the raw will fix it. This is something he's had as long as he's been in the rescue and it doesn't seem dangerous, just painful to a degree. That explains his grunting when he lays down, poor guy!

 

I think he was scared we were going to leave him at the vet. He kept pressing up against me and anytime I took my hand off him, he would put his paw on me until I put my hand back on him. He must have had some trauma before. I'm glad he's with us now.

[SonshineLearner]

Here's a funny, The first Chiropractor I ever went to.. in extreme pain... told me the stories of his young days when he first started out. Chiros weren't as popular, I suppose, and he started by doing whatever work he could do. He did great work on me... but there were a couple of stories about hitting the bull just right... to adjust the neck... and the German Shephard... told them in all seriousness.... so I think he was telling them as "true". Anyway, I'd love to have my pup adjusted. (But not for $70) :-)

[Wyndie]

LOL Love your chiro!! :D

 

What do you clean your tub with after your dog eats? We've been doing the rmb in his crate and cleaning with soap/water and then Dr. Bonners. My husband keeps talking bleach... we don't do bleach so I think he's just paranoid about the germ aspect. What do you use to feel like all's sparkly shiny clean?

[SonshineLearner]

Hey, I don't still see the same Chiro... or I'd ask about him adjusting my pup.... As far as sparkling clean... I clean my tub out with whatever normal cleaner and scrubber I do it with. I really wouldn't want to be putting bleach in my dogs kennel. I might do it once in a while... But... that's one of the reasons I don't use the kennel... too much trouble. Really the tub didn't take long for him to train to eat in there. Maybe 3 or 4 times? I also give him water on demand. So... he jumps in... and if I don't come give him water... he jumps out and back in.... I get it ;) Or.. he'll come and bark to get what he needs. It's much easier and cleaner than dog bowls... him just drinking straight from the faucet;-)

[Wyndie]

We wanted to feed him in the tub but he's skeered of it. :lol: Giving him a bath is a nightmare b/c he's big enough to push me out of the way and jump out. lol Soooo hubs said he didn't even want to try. Does your dog hate baths but just knows if food is there it's ok? I"m not sure how to try again.

[SonshineLearner]

It seems to be simple for us. I shower my dog, but if the bath is occupied... though he doesn't like showers... he'll go in there.

Don't run water... Have a bit of his food in your hands.... (Perhaps have a old towel in the bath) I can't remember how big your dog is now. Get your food.... let him smell it... Say, the dog's name... "Come" and sit by the bath. Personally, I'd just do that... put the food in the tub... and sometime soon he'll hop in to sniff.

Here's the thing, I do meat with the bone dust. I don't rely on the bones during the winter...especially. With bones, Brownie prefers to drag out his bone... which I don't like.. until they are REALLY clean. In the summer, it's a bit easier... cuz you can just throw it outside:-)

[Wyndie]

Ok thanks. Maybe I'll give that another try. As I was thinking of it I remembered his spinal issue and wonder if getting in the tub might be harder for him. I may just keep him in the crate for bone treats until the raw diet has worked its magic on his back. ;)

 

He's 81 lbs btw. Big big boy. :lol:

[Wyndie]

Ok so now my son tells me that Blue's poop today was yellow with white in it. I didn't see it b/c he cleaned it up and then told me. It's the poop straight from the rear not from a few days ago. In a person that means liver problems. I'm wondering if his liver is under stress from the diet change. Anyone have experience with that? I"m going to google but wanted to ask here too.

[Wyndie]

So from what I see, it looks like it could just be the calcium from all the bones he's been getting. Do those of you who do raw find your dogs poop white now? I was under the impression it would still be brown but turn white in a few days. Should I be worried?

[SonshineLearner]

OK... I'm not into dissecting poop... but... it's eating all the bones...

YUCK

[Wyndie]

Yeah, sorry. I guess I should have warned you I was gonna talk gross. :tongue_smilie:

[hornblower]

My guys will give me whitish poops when they've had a particularly bony meal. I'd just drop down the volume of bones & monitor. I've seen yellowish too. If it persists through several bm's even when you go to a lower bone meals, then I'd consider starting to worry. Otherwise, I consider that normal in my raw fed dogs.

 

Generally I'd say the poops are much more golden yellowy brown as a rule when on raw, particularly it seems to me when they get a lot of chicken or turkey. I rarely see what looks like a traditional brown poop from my guys. BTW, I also sometimes see mucous and the occasional small streak of red. Also consider it normal in an otherwise healthy dog.

 

If you're really worried, we can do a photoshare of bm's & see pics of what I consider normal :lol:

 

 

 

 

 

Ok so now my son tells me that Blue's poop today was yellow with white in it. I didn't see it b/c he cleaned it up and then told me. It's the poop straight from the rear not from a few days ago. In a person that means liver problems. I'm wondering if his liver is under stress from the diet change. Anyone have experience with that? I"m going to google but wanted to ask here too.