TT Geometry--is it possible to use this before the Algebra I?

[momto5blessings]

I am afraid that if we do Alg 1, then Geometry, then Algebra 2, he will have forgotten what he learned in Alg 1. Is this something to worry about? I didn't have this issue with older son, who did Saxon all the way through, but this ds has learning differences, TT has been an answer to prayer!! BUT I am a bit hung up on the separate Geometry thing.

What do you think?

Thanks for helping.

Pamela

[EKS]

A good bit of algebra 2 is reviewing what was learned in algebra 1 and then expanding upon it. Since most kids will have this problem, the review is usually built into the program. What I wouldn't do is put geometry between algebra 2 and precalculus, as precalculus programs are not assuming a year of geometry directly beforehand.

[Jann in TX]

Geometry requires some knowledge of Algebra 1--- the parts of Geometry that are on the SAT/ACT test will require Algebra 1 (formula work)... and a student who has not taken Algebra 1 will not be able to understand the methods needed to find solutions.

 

A good Geometry program will reinforce Algebra 1 skills--and Algebra 2 will take the Algebra 1 skills (with a bit of review) and add to them.

 

It is even harder for students who take Geometry after Algebra 2 to make the jump to college level maths--while Geometry practices Algebra 1 skills it DOES NOT teach/review/use any Algebra 2 skills... and most college level maths offer little if any review.

[Lolly]

Geometry uses algebra 1. Algebra 2 has a surprising amount of review/repeat of algebra 1.

[EKS]

A good Geometry program will reinforce Algebra 1 skills

 

This is my one issue with TT Geometry. Since their first year algebra ends before other standard algebra I courses, the algebra assumed and reinforced in the program is very low level. We did a chapter of Jacobs alongside one of the TT chapters and the algebra knowledge assumed by Jacobs was *much* higher than anything in TT. So that is my one regret about using TT Geometry.

[momto5blessings]

doesn't go far enough to continue in college, or if he does TT all the way through, will he be okay (through Pre Calc). My oldest basically taught himself all through High School, but none of my other children are this way, and my math knowledge is spotty at best.

 

Thanks

[Lolly]

doesn't go far enough to continue in college, or if he does TT all the way through, will he be okay (through Pre Calc). My oldest basically taught himself all through High School, but none of my other children are this way, and my math knowledge is spotty at best.

 

Thanks

 

It is just the TT wars. He'll be fine. :D

[creekland]

As others have said, no. Geometry can be taken at the same time as Alg 2 if needed/desired (2 math courses at one time), but Alg 1 needs to be first.

 

If one goes all the way through with TT (including Pre-Calc) then one will generally be set up well for college. If one skips Pre-Calc, then one will miss matrices, polar coordinates, logs/exponents, and possibly a few other items I'm not thinking of right now as I don't have the book in front of me. Those are important - esp if one is heading into Calc. They shouldn't be skipped.

 

For what it's worth though, most of those aren't done in our Alg 2 at the public high school either - they are saved for Pre-Calc. Since studies are showing many students don't develop brain capability needed to do higher level math at younger years, more recent books are delaying some of these topics for later. That said, I'd hardly call our school great at preparing students in math. We're quite poor at it, but we are keeping up with the 'studies' (perhaps in an effort to have an excuse).

 

This isn't to say kids can't be taught to memorize formulas and plug in data - other studies have shown even some elementary kids can do that. The issue involved is understanding exactly what is being done.

 

And, it also isn't saying that NO student develops these skills early - many do - and should be allowed to advance quicker. It's just talking about average students and knowledge.

 

As for my own kids... My oldest two (very mathy) started Alg 1 in 7th grade and have had no problems whatsoever. The oldest was in ps at the time, so used their book - I think it was Larson. My middle one started with TT here at home. My middle student outscores my oldest on standardized tests, even though I'd consider my oldest to be more mathy naturally. Neither are bad. My oldest scores in the top 3% and my middle son in the top 1%.

 

My youngest got messed up in ps with Everyday Math so I had to catch him up to my standards for the first couple of years we homeschooled. He just started Alg 1 (TT) in 8th grade and is doing well. He wasn't ready in 7th grade. He'll probably score in the top 25% when he gets to standardized tests (projecting here based on where I think he naturally fits in).

 

IMO how well your student will do will be a bit more of a factor of how mathy he is than exactly which curriculum you use - unless he's not learning well from whatever you've chosen - or, in the case of TT, you don't go all the way through Pre-Calc.

 

Once he's done enough Alg 1 make sure you sign him up for the SAT and ACT Questions of the Day to get some decent practice for those tests.

[EKS]

doesn't go far enough to continue in college, or if he does TT all the way through, will he be okay (through Pre Calc). My oldest basically taught himself all through High School, but none of my other children are this way, and my math knowledge is spotty at best.

 

Thanks

 

I meant that the algebra required by the TT geometry course is not at as high a level as it is in the Jacobs book. For example, in the Jacobs book, there are problems where the kid has to factor a polynomial to get the answer (this is in the context of the geometry problem) and the hardest algebra related thing in the TT book was dealing with square roots.

 

The geometry itself in the TT book was perfectly fine. It is just obvious that it is assuming that kids coming from TT Algebra I aren't as far along as kids coming from the Jacobs sequence.

 

As for how well prepared a student will be for college after using TT all the way through, I'm not in a position to evaluate that. I haven't used any TT products other than the Geometry. I found TT Geometry to be adequate but not honors level. I have to say, it was incredibly easy to use.

Edited February 8, 2010 by EKS

[eumyang]

This thread reminds me of a blog post I saw where a teacher proposed that Geometry come before algebra:

http://continuities.wordpress.com/2008/07/24/geometry-before-algebra/

(I'm not sure it's a good idea, though.)

 

As for TT, my thought is that one should follow the sequence that the program "assumes." It sounds like that the creators of TT prefer the Algebra 1 -> Algebra 2 -> Geometry -> Precalculus sequence, so if I was using TT I would just follow that sequence. If that's a problem for the OP I guess the student could

(1) Algebra 2 and Geometry simultaneously, or

(2) try to finish Algebra 2 before the end of the school year and then study Geometry for the end of the school year and during the summer.

 

 

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