Biblioplan users-why did you choose this over TOG?

[Guest aquiverfull]

Monique.. thank you very much for taking the time to explain how TOG can work for me and how it works for you. :) You painted a pretty clear picture and I really appreciate it.

 

You have given me some food for thought. I guess I do see it as a booklist, but probably because I'm coming from WP and SL. I'm used to a curriculum with lots of books and I do enjoy buying a good many books, but I just couldn't see buying as many as are used in TOG.

 

I guess it would be hard to judge whether or not TOG could work for us without seeing it in person. I have wondered about the alternate book lists because quite possibly there will be some of those at my library and I could substitute with those.

 

For those who use TOG, do you feel like it is really history heavy? Do you feel like it takes over your other subjects? I ask because we have felt like that when using WP and SL and our other subjects were taking a backseat to history. I want to make sure that doesn't happen again.

[mommyagain]

I am SOOOOO glad all you TOG'ers responded. I am now so STOKED to get my hands on TOG:hurray:! I love that it will educate ME, give me guidance while allowing the flexibility that I need. While I've considered other curricula with planned daily schedules (and tried a couple) I know that drives me crazy!!! I believe that TOG will fit the wide variety of learning styles/capabilities of my kids while keeping us all together. I can't WAIT to start!!!

 

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!

[Guest aquiverfull]

YAY Mommyagain!! That's wonderful that you've made your decision. :)

I agree that the self-education aspect is a huge draw for me too. Well good luck with your crew and TOG!!

[jewel7123]

Sounds exciting! I've been following this thread as TOG intrigues me as well. Be sure to check in when you get it and start using it to let us know what you think then! Best of luck!

[shanvan]

I'm used to a curriculum with lots of books and I do enjoy buying a good many books, but I just couldn't see buying as many as are used in TOG.

 

There are only 'as many' books used as you decide to use. There are just a lot of choices presented.We don't use very many of the suggested books. We use a spine (kingfisher) and as many of the core books as I think are necessary.Sometimes we even use completely different books we find at the library. I've read lots of complaints that if you don't use the suggested resources your kids will not be able to answer the questions, but it hasn't happened to us yet. (But of course that would be true for literature.) We don't always use the literature suggestions because I love to play around with literature. We are a very literary family and have several read alouds going at all times.

 

The teacher's notes are so good that you really could even use portions of them to help your child answer the questions if he or she really had trouble with finding the answers. I have even read posts from people who teach from the notes if they have a week they need to cover quickly.

 

I worried about the cost of the books before we switched to TOG, but it hasn't been significant for us. I buy used and I only buy for a unit or two at a time. I keep my eyes open at thrift shops and yard sales and on the sale boards. So far I have not had to invest the huge sums I saw listed in other posts.

I guess it would be hard to judge whether or not TOG could work for us without seeing it in person. I have wondered about the alternate book lists because quite possibly there will be some of those at my library and I could substitute with those.

 

Yes, you really need to have it and actually use it for a while before you begin to realize how it will work for you. It took me a while to calm down and make it fit for us, but it was worth it. We are finally comfortable and happy to stay with it. We are finishing our first year with TOG and my son loves it. My husband loves that art history is included. We use many of the alternate resources. As I said before, my son has no problem answering the questions. He is at the dialectic level. Having him take more responsibility for his learning has worked very well and freed up more of my time for my younger DD. He just knows he has to do the reading (and he enjoys it) and have the questions answered in time for our discussion Friday. It is wonderful that he is working on his own, yet I am not completely out of the learning process because of the discussions.

For those who use TOG, do you feel like it is really history heavy? Do you feel like it takes over your other subjects? I ask because we have felt like that when using WP and SL and our other subjects were taking a backseat to history. I want to make sure that doesn't happen again.

 

This can happen, but as another poster mentioned you have to make it work for you. I like the fact that we can have a heavy history week or lighten it up a little if we need to. We do both depending on what else we have going on. I've used curriculum that is very light before and it drives me batty to have to scramble to find extra resources. TOG makes it easy to dig deeper or not as you see fit, but at least you have the deeper stuff to use when you need it. You just have to be realistic about what you choose to cover each week, keeping in mind how much time you have to devote to history. For us we spend anywhere between a half hour to an hour a day on history depending on if we have a read aloud, mapping or geography or a discussion. I have DD to include with lower grammar, so I try to make sure there are enough read alouds to make it interesting for her. I think the comparison to picking and choosing from the booklists in the WTM is a good one.

 

Sorry to go on an on, but I hope some of this helps.

 

Shannon

[mommyagain]

:001_wub: You guys are so sweet! I will check in after we get started. I'm sure I'll have questions!!

We will be finalizing the adoption of my sweet little angels, ds 2 and ds 1 sometime in the next couple of months. A curriculum decision and two baby boys all in the same year!!! What could be better??:001_tt1:

 

God bless,

Cheryl

[jewel7123]

 

Sorry to go on an on, but I hope some of this helps.

 

Shannon

 

Wow, Shannon, what an insightful and well detailed post! So do you mind if I ask what curriculums you have used prior to TOG? Have you ever used Biblioplan or MFW?

 

Also, I've heard some people say if you have very young children to wait and use something like MFW for a couple of year before moving on to TOG, but then I've seen others who say why wait, if you're going to spend the money you might as well start using it now, lol. What would you say?

 

TOG does definitely look like the "perfect" curriculum, however the price tag is quite daunting, especially without really knowing how much you will spend on books. When I read some of the other $ numbers I was like, no way, out of the question.

[M&M]

Not Shannon, but since I am already in this thread I'll jump in. I have Biblioplan on my shelves and never used it. I bought it when my oldest was in grammar stage and SOTW came out the next year. At the time I felt it would serve me better during logic stage. Now were are in Logic stage and it still sits.

 

I also used MFW, it was ok, but we just didn't like some of the books (and then we were stuck) and I just don't do daily schedules very well. Once we fell away from the schedule it all fell apart for us. It was not a good fit for my oldest. I also didn't want to have to buy so many components to cover all of my children.

[M&M]

Just remember to take it slow, you have lots of time to learn how Tapestry will work for you. Don't overwhelm your little ones.

[shanvan]

Wow, Shannon, what an insightful and well detailed post! So do you mind if I ask what curriculums you have used prior to TOG? Have you ever used Biblioplan or MFW?

 

Also, I've heard some people say if you have very young children to wait and use something like MFW for a couple of year before moving on to TOG, but then I've seen others who say why wait, if you're going to spend the money you might as well start using it now, lol. What would you say?

 

TOG does definitely look like the "perfect" curriculum, however the price tag is quite daunting, especially without really knowing how much you will spend on books. When I read some of the other $ numbers I was like, no way, out of the question.

 

Okay, you asked. Here is my long winded answer. I can see both points of view on waiting to use TOG. It really depends on what you want to accomplish. I think using it with the younger ones is a good idea because it gives you time to get comfortable with the curriculum. BUT, if you only have one child and you want something more open and go, you can easily accomplish history with something that is less of a buffet. Then again, in the younger years you will have more time for all those fun projects that are harder to get to when you are facing a middle school workload.

 

When I only had one child to teach I used BJU History and we were very happy with it. I wanted my children to have American history first. (That is a whole separate issue but our family follows that school of thought.) When I had two to teach it became harder to have two different levels of history going at the same time and still be involved in sharing all that info with them and discussing and enjoying history. My days were becoming very long. My son was ready to cover ancients, but I thought the BJU 6th grade looked skimpy.

 

So, I bought Mystery of History 1 and taught both kids together. There wasn't enough meat for my DS and I got fed up with the constant suggestions that I assign research to my older child. When I did he ended up needing my help and it ate up huge amounts of our time. Plus I found many places where historical controversies were not mentioned and the author just choose her own point of view to present. If I hadn't known about them already I would have taken her word as fact.

 

Then I had a year of struggling to put my own history together using library books and teaching both kids together. I designed all the maps and assignments plus projects. That lead me down the road to burn out.

 

I needed something to assist me in pulling together history that would fit for my family. I looked at MFW, but something about it didn't suit me...I can't remember what. Then I looked at Biblioplan and TOG and really went back and forth about which to buy. I had a serious talk with my husband and showed him samples of both. He is the one who really made the decision for me. He just thought that with TOG I would be getting so much more. He also liked the fact that we could use it over at different levels. He did not like the price....but we had a serious talk about how to afford it. (I'm talking about the actual curriculum, not the individual resources). Sometimes, when I can't just plunk down the money for something I will start an envelope in my sock drawer and keep adding whenever I find I have any extra cash for the week. Sometimes we cut down on our grocery bill for a few weeks. We got creative and he even told me to buy 2 years at the same time because we had enough saved! I have not found it a huge financial burden to afford the books for TOG, but I think ahead and look for bargains. I also have only 2 children to buy for. Those huge dollar amounts in other posts must be if you used everything TOG has to offer.

 

I feel like Tapestry allows me the freedom to design the curriculum, but it gives me all the tools so I don't have to come up with everything by myself. It is the perfect happy medium between planning my own history and using planned curriculum.

 

Hopefully, in my rambling, I've answered your questions.

 

 

Shannon

[jewel7123]

Another thing that's scary about TOG is the fact that the more threads I read about it, the more I see those same people who used to love TOG who have now moved on to something else, lol. I guess you can say that about any curriculum though. The same holds true for two others I have used and am considering, namely HOD and MFW.

[jewel7123]

I wanted my children to have American history first. (That is a whole separate issue but our family follows that school of thought.)

 

Shannon

 

Well I still don't know if I could really afford it but let's just SAY I could, lol. You brought up another question of mine. I too feel that starting with Ancients and myths and gods is not really what I want to do, and I would prefer to start with American history and also do a year of geography before moving on to Ancients. I know TOG doesn't have a geography year, but how does it work if you don't start with Yr 1 but start with Yr 3 instead? Does it matter at all which year you start with and in what order you use the years?

[shanvan]

Well I still don't know if I could really afford it but let's just SAY I could, lol. You brought up another question of mine. I too feel that starting with Ancients and myths and gods is not really what I want to do, and I would prefer to start with American history and also do a year of geography before moving on to Ancients. I know TOG doesn't have a geography year, but how does it work if you don't start with Yr 1 but start with Yr 3 instead? Does it matter at all which year you start with and in what order you use the years?

 

 

Since I have only used TOG for a year, I don't consider myself an expert, but I wouldn't think it would matter which year you start with. Maybe someone else with more TOG experience will jump in here. You may want to post a new thread on this question. I have read that many think year 2 is a long difficult year. If you want to start with American history, you could look at Beautiful Feet's Primary American History. We enjoyed it when my son was younger.

 

TOG is working well for us and fits our needs now. I will say I modify a lot of the mythology assignments. We don't do much of it with my DD. It's just a personal conviction and choice. I won't say that we are committed to TOG forever because needs change, but we will be going ahead with it for next year since we are enjoying it.

 

I will say I agree with the poster who said not to overwhelm your children. It could be easy to do if you buy TOG and get excited about all the things you are learning.

 

Shannon - who is now off to read Little Women aloud to a very excited DD and a not so thrilled DS (who calls it silly women)!

[Guest aquiverfull]

Mommyagain, congrats on the adoption. :) I hope you don't mind my asking so many questions here in your thread.

 

Thank you very much Shannon! Your posts have been very helpful, and have given me some more things to think about.

 

I'm sure many of you have seen my crazy posts in the last few weeks about history. I think I've decided to use WP, SL, HOD, MOH, BP, etc... all of them...lol. I keep going back and forth mainly because not one of them has just what I want. Although they each have very good things about them. I've thought about combining some of each. I've used SL and WP in the past. We also tried MFW this year and gave up on it fairly quickly. I had decided that I was just going to do my own thing, then I had to come and read this thread. TOG has always intrigued me. I poured over the samples last year and chose MFW ECC just so I didn't have to think anymore about the history cycle, and I thought it would be a way to concentrate on my dd's Math and LAs (since we were switching to CLE last year). I was also fairly certain that I would not be able to afford TOG, so I put it out of my mind. It really does look amazing, totally everything I want. I would love the structure but I also need some flexibility since I'm a tweaker naturally.

 

It's been great to read all these posts and get a better picture of how it could work. Plus I've been talking to a really sweet mama here (mommahawk) and she's been helpful with suggestions about how to make TOG work for my family. Thank you all! :)

[Kim in SouthGa]

I will chime in again as pro-BiblioPlan ;)

One thing that I have learned over the years is that I cannot afford to spend an extreme amount of time or money on any one subject. Now I know some are going to say that TOG is lit, geo, and writing as well. We did not do the geo (hated it, so confusing, no answers) or the writing. So it was just lit and history for us. I much prefer WTM literature. So we were just using the history portion-probably would have counted it as Bible, also, if using one of the first two years. Here is my argument against the statement that "I will use it for all my kids for all 4 rotations"-new stuff comes out sooooo often, now. I can't begin to tell you how many new programs that have come out since we have been homeschooling. Also, my kids are all different. My oldest two love literature and history based learning, but my 9ds hates it. Who knows what the 2 year old will be like? Will there be a new edition out by then that I have to have?

I am just very cautious about any one program that is that time consuming and financially burdensome. I was even tempted again today after reading all these posts. But one look at all those notes and checklists sent me running. :) If you really have the time, money, and desire to put into it, I'm sure it's wonderful. For our family situation, it was pretty much a disaster. History is actually getting done now, and even without all the deep thought and discussion questions, my son is still learning a ton and is much more knowledgeable about history and well-read than me.

[M&M]

I understand your concerns, people often seem to be dropping something that they loved and raved about for the latest and greatest. IMHO you must keep these things in mind when choosing curriculum.

First know what are your goals. Know what your weaknesses are and your strenghts.

Then decide what the curriculum claims to offer, does it live up to those claims, and does it meets your needs?

 

I have tried lots of curriculum, have bought lots of the latest and greatest (anyone remember Nebels?). The things that I actually used, even if we did not stick with them, all of these taught me something. WTM, MFW, Singapore Math, MUS, all of these things added something to my homeschool. These things taught me something about how to reach my children and teach them better.

 

I am very selective now on what I purchase. I have put more value in creating a home library than filling my house with curricula. Lots of those books I bought used... many for $.25. I try to educate myself as best I can while raising 5 children.

 

If you really don't know what to do, you can purchase one unit and try it out. Take some of the R level books out of the library and see what it is like. See if TOG helps you to see the greater tapestry of history. Your passion will be passed on to your children.

 

As for mythology, skip it for the younger children if you have concerns. I have seen the value for my older children, the Greek and Roman mythology is a part of our culture. There have been lots of times that my children have seen or heard a reference to a Greek god or some myth, they get it ..and they get it in the context of our Christian worldview.

 

Siloam does TOG at a much slower pace, check out some of her posts. Harmony Art Mom has a great blog on how she uses TOG.

 

 

If you try TOG that is great, if you go with something else, that will be great as well. They are tools, some are more helpful than others. As for me, even if I stop using TOG as my main curricula, I will keep it on hand for reference, for myself because there is so much there.

 

Hope this helps.

 

ETA: If you have the chance to listen to some of the authors conference tapes or articles, you will get a better feel for where they are coming from and why they created their curriculum.

Edited February 11, 2010 by M&M
one more thought

[mommyagain]

Mommyagain, congrats on the adoption. :) I hope you don't mind my asking so many questions here in your thread.

Thank you and I don't mind AT ALL!! I have been totally inspired and educated by all these responses (thank you Shannon and Monique!!).

[Guest aquiverfull]

Kim, thank you for sharing the other side of the story. :)

 

I see that you raise very valid points. I have seen other posts where people were having trouble with the Geography in TOG. But I thought MapAids has made that easier. Is that not the case?? I'd love for TOGers to chime in here about the geo.

 

Also I completely see what you are saying. It will pretty much just be History and Lit for us. I was hoping some geo too, but now not so sure. That is a lot of money to spend on history and lit and I have to agree with you about wanting something else/more etc in the future. There are many new things coming out all the time. Those things can be hard to resist, especially when they are constantly posted about on here 24/7. Did someone say MCT ?...lol. I have considered it more than once thinking I must be missing something, but then I remind myself that what we have is working and we do like it. ;)

 

But really, part of me wants to find something and stick with it.. that's another reason that TOG looks so appealing to me. However, I do see your point and I think you are right. I'm really not sure that I can afford TOG and I certainly don't want it to cause any financial burden. Which brings me to another thought.. my husband thinks I stress out way too much on history.. and he's probably right. Yet, I just can't hand my dd a textbook (his suggestion), I just can't bring myself to do that. Yuck! It's too much like my history education and I hated history because of it. There is just a better way of doing it, in my opinion.

 

So I really want a literature approach to history and I know there are many ways of getting that. I need to pray about this. My husband is absolutely no help. He has nothing to do with homeschool. He supports it (as in he completely agrees with it, and that's where the supporting stops..lol). He says I'm the teacher, I should pick what I want to teach. I've asked him to look over samples, he won't. He's totally uninterested. :tongue_smilie:And I'm not good at making decisions, which is why I go back and forth.

[Guest aquiverfull]

Monique, your post was full of wisdom. :) Thank you for sharing!!

[mommyagain]

aquiverfull,

A couple ideas for you. You could, as Monique mentioned, just get one unit of TOG to try. Or, homeschoolclassifieds has some TOG redesigned printed years for sale. You could try one of those and resell if it doesn't work for you. Or you could try a year of Biblioplan. If it's enough for you then great! If you want more depth, then you could give TOG a try the following year.

I pray you find something that brings you peace in your homeschooling. I also have a hubby like yours! He TOTALLY wants us to homeschool through high school, but leaves all the decisions up to me!

 

Blessings and peace to you!

Cheryl

[jewel7123]

Good thread....thanks to OP for starting it as well as all the contributors! I think for me I'm going to keep drooling for awhile and utilize the resources I have available already for the next couple of years. I'll revisit the idea of TOG when I'm ready to do Ancients. =)

[Guest aquiverfull]

Thank you Cheryl! I appreciate your suggestions. I actually have someone who is willing to sell me the YR 1 printed plans used. So that is a great thing! :)

 

Thank you so much for praying for me. I very much appreciate it. :)

I'm also glad to know that I'm not the only one with a dh like that...lol.

[jananc]

I'm jumping in here late, but just wanted to add that you absolutely can download a fresh copy of DE if your computer crashes. That very thing happened to me, and it was just a matter of sending the folks at Lampstand Press an email requesting another download license. I had it within 24 hrs.

 

We love our TOG here. It's our 6th year using it, after starting it when we had finished 1 rotation using WTM. With UG and D, I'm not as concerned about getting every single title listed (especially history in-depth). Substitutes are fine for this level, esp. If there's a question my kids can't answer from the substituted reading, they research the answer on the internet. For R, I'm more apt to purchase the book if my library doesn't have it, but that's for 2 reasons: one, I know I'll be using R for 2 go-rounds, and two, we're in a co-op and I want my dc prepared for all the discussion. I purchase most of my books used at half.com.

 

As far as geography goes, we use the MapAids every week, labeling all the locations that are on the teacher's maps. My kids don't answer the geo. questions separately, which is just one of those examples of using the parts of TOG that you want and leaving the rest. We also don't use the vocab or people lists.

 

I also wanted to add that I used to be a curriculum junkie as well, but since I found TOG I'm not even interested in looking at other programs. It satisfies me that much. I laughed when I read the previous poster, who said that she used to spend so much more time here on the WTM boards. Me too! :-)

 

Every week I'm grateful for the insights and teaching my kids get through TOG -- helping them to tie together all these threads of history in a biblical worldview. The worldview is the most valuable part of the curriculum to me, and I've not seen its equal in any other curriculum.

 

I hear concerns about repeating the same material over and over, too. But since we're in our 2nd rotation through TOG 2, I can see exactly how each level (G, D, R) builds on what the kids covered in the previous level and goes deeper, more into the "whys" of how things were. Our interest level doesn't suffer one bit over having covered the time period 4 years earlier, because my kids thinking has matured over the years and they're more ready for those concepts now.

 

I first started TOG with an eye on the high school years. I was thinking that R level is here the program would really shine. And I haven't been disappointed. The more I use TOG with my R level son, the more certain I am that I made the right choice 6 years ago.

 

sorry this got so long! Like someone else said, the best curriculum is the one that fits your family, and that's different for everyone!

[mommyagain]

That was very encouraging! I'm looking forward to a long time with TOG, taking it slow and easy as we grow into it.

BTW, I checked out your blog - beautiful!

[ABQmom]

I'm jumping in here late, but just wanted to add that you absolutely can download a fresh copy of DE if your computer crashes. That very thing happened to me, and it was just a matter of sending the folks at Lampstand Press an email requesting another download license. I had it within 24 hrs.

 

We love our TOG here. It's our 6th year using it, after starting it when we had finished 1 rotation using WTM. With UG and D, I'm not as concerned about getting every single title listed (especially history in-depth). Substitutes are fine for this level, esp. If there's a question my kids can't answer from the substituted reading, they research the answer on the internet. For R, I'm more apt to purchase the book if my library doesn't have it, but that's for 2 reasons: one, I know I'll be using R for 2 go-rounds, and two, we're in a co-op and I want my dc prepared for all the discussion. I purchase most of my books used at half.com.

 

As far as geography goes, we use the MapAids every week, labeling all the locations that are on the teacher's maps. My kids don't answer the geo. questions separately, which is just one of those examples of using the parts of TOG that you want and leaving the rest. We also don't use the vocab or people lists.

 

I also wanted to add that I used to be a curriculum junkie as well, but since I found TOG I'm not even interested in looking at other programs. It satisfies me that much. I laughed when I read the previous poster, who said that she used to spend so much more time here on the WTM boards. Me too! :-)

 

Every week I'm grateful for the insights and teaching my kids get through TOG -- helping them to tie together all these threads of history in a biblical worldview. The worldview is the most valuable part of the curriculum to me, and I've not seen its equal in any other curriculum.

 

I hear concerns about repeating the same material over and over, too. But since we're in our 2nd rotation through TOG 2, I can see exactly how each level (G, D, R) builds on what the kids covered in the previous level and goes deeper, more into the "whys" of how things were. Our interest level doesn't suffer one bit over having covered the time period 4 years earlier, because my kids thinking has matured over the years and they're more ready for those concepts now.

 

I first started TOG with an eye on the high school years. I was thinking that R level is here the program would really shine. And I haven't been disappointed. The more I use TOG with my R level son, the more certain I am that I made the right choice 6 years ago.

 

sorry this got so long! Like someone else said, the best curriculum is the one that fits your family, and that's different for everyone!

 

This post and this entire thread has been helpful to me in my research of TOG. Thanks everyone! Jana, I'm glad you still come to the boards occasionally to help the rest of us!

[redsnapper]

Has anybody looked into Mystery of History?

 

I'd heard good things from two ladies, but would love more info if anybody here has tried it... Especially as compared to Biblioplan...

 

Thanks!

[shanvan]

Has anybody looked into Mystery of History?

 

I'd heard good things from two ladies, but would love more info if anybody here has tried it... Especially as compared to Biblioplan...

 

Thanks!

 

So, I bought Mystery of History 1 and taught both kids together. There wasn't enough meat for my DS and I got fed up with the constant suggestions that I assign research to my older child. When I did he ended up needing my help and it ate up huge amounts of our time. Plus I found many places where historical controversies were not mentioned and the author just choose her own point of view to present. If I hadn't known about them already I would have taken her word as fact.

[mommyagain]

Has anybody looked into Mystery of History?

 

I'd heard good things from two ladies, but would love more info if anybody here has tried it... Especially as compared to Biblioplan...

 

Thanks!

Biblioplan actually incorporates MOH. You can use it as your spine instead of or along with SOTW.

[Guest aquiverfull]

If I don't go with TOG, I'm strongly considering MOH and adding to it with literature books, maybe some extra geography, etc. I have All through the Ages, so that would help me to add in the other things.

 

The thing is I'm almost sure that TOG could do a much better job at putting it all together than I ever could.

 

Shannon can you please share what inaccuracies you have found with MOH. I read (from amazon reviews) that there were also several historical inaccuracies in SOTW. I know SL uses it in Cores 6 and 7 and include various teacher's notes about those inaccuracies.

[Heather in OK]

This post has been so helpful! I'm currently on the hunt for something to use next year when we start the cycle again. I'd love to have something that all four of my kids can use and be challenged with (does something like that exist? lol).

 

So am I understanding this correctly:

 

Both are a guide (similar to TruthQuest) that lays out multi-level lesson plans but you still have to buy additional spine books (i.e. SOTW)? And if I'm teaching multi-levels, in TOG each will need a different spine?

 

TOG puts together and covers more than BP?

 

I thought of one other question. We are currently using TQ AHYS III. We hate it. It. is. so. boring. Would we be able to pick up in Year 4 where we are studying now (WWII) or a little before and finish it? Then next year begin the cycle with Year 1. ?

Edited February 11, 2010 by Heather in OK

[shanvan]

If I don't go with TOG, I'm strongly considering MOH and adding to it with literature books, maybe some extra geography, etc. I have All through the Ages, so that would help me to add in the other things.

 

The thing is I'm almost sure that TOG could do a much better job at putting it all together than I ever could.

 

Shannon can you please share what inaccuracies you have found with MOH. I read (from amazon reviews) that there were also several historical inaccuracies in SOTW. I know SL uses it in Cores 6 and 7 and include various teacher's notes about those inaccuracies.

 

They were not exactly inaccuracies, and because it has been a couple of years I can't remember specific examples. (Which makes me wonder just how important they are!) I just know that I would be reading other books on a given subject and find out wow, MOH just covered that without ever mentioning that there was a controversy. It left me wondering what else I might be missing. In Dianah Waring's guides she will tell you all of the points of view and exactly what the disagreements are and where to go to read more about it. (But I found her materials confusing to use.) In MOH I was finding that often the author presented only one side. I would prefer to be educated myself about the controversies and be able to explain them and discuss them with my children. I believe it was often regarding the timing of certain events and the locations especially in regards to archeological discoveries. This was in MOH1. I would imagine the other books would not have the same issue. Sorry I can't be of more help here.

 

To be fair to MOH, not many books will explain all these things, it is a monumental task. I had some of the same issues with TOG too, so it may just be me looking for perfection! My biggest problem with MOH1 was lack of meat for my older DS. Our family also did not appreciate many of the author's comments, but that is because of some personal convictions which I won't mention here.

 

And, yes I just felt MOH did not do a good job pulling two different levels of teaching/learning together. Not much to help you with discussion for your older student, unless you read all extra books with them, or supervise research projects.

 

If you go with MOH and add your own books, I wonder if A child's Geography would work for you. I've always like the looks of it and been tempted to buy it several times.

 

Shannon

[Guest aquiverfull]

Thank you for explaining Shannon. I see what you are saying now.

 

Do you mean A Child's Geography of the Holy Lands? If so, that is one that I was thinking of adding.

[shanvan]

Do you mean A Child's Geography of the Holy Lands? If so, that is one that I was thinking of adding.

 

That's it!

[Guest aquiverfull]

That geography program looks very nice. Can I ask, since you used MOH how did you like the Mapping in it? Do you do any mapping in TOG, if so do you find it easy to do?

Thanks!

[shanvan]

That geography program looks very nice. Can I ask, since you used MOH how did you like the Mapping in it? Do you do any mapping in TOG, if so do you find it easy to do?

Thanks!

 

We did not like the mapping in MOH. We stopped using MOH and I made up my own curriculum for the rest of the year using library books. That's why TOG was a natural transition for me.

 

I like the TOG mapping. It is definitely easy to use. Sometimes I wish there were separate topographical maps to use, but overall I think the mapping is good.

[dsacco]

My kids and I lasted 3 weeks with MOH 1 last year - they couldn't stand it! We did the same thing with making it up for the rest of the year.

 

Do you use the transparencies for the maps with TOG? I'm thinking of just putting them in sheet protectors for each child and have them draw with the dry erase markers so they can erase and practice etc. I HAVE sheet protectors - but I don't have transparencies..... I see though for year 1 week 2 it has it for level D.

[Guest aquiverfull]

Thanks Shannon and Dana. I appreciate you sharing your experiences on MOH and TOG.

 

Dana, what was it that you didn't like about MOH? Was it the writing style?

[dsacco]

DS thought it was boring and slow so he would lose interest with it VERY quickly. DD could have done ok with it... but she would daydream and then not be able to work with my on any of the questions - I was getting too many "I duh nos" from both kids. That in the end drove ME nuts.

 

It's also why we couldn't do SOTW by itself - sure we can use it with other stuff but not as the main text.

 

Some days I think my kids are just from another planet ;)

 

Here's the thing though - DD is super excited about the Usborne book of the Ancient World - its colorful and engaging. DS likes that some of his books LOOK like textbooks (no kidding - he's from another planet I tell you!)... He also like GA Henty - and for the 1st 3 weeks he gets to read one that he already has - so he's actually excited about it.

 

BTW - the CORE History book for Year 1 Unit 1 for weeks 4-9 for both UG & D is the Bible. It's a historical reference about Moses so they use that as a main source.

[ValRN]

I've never used BP. I did use TOG when dc were in 6th, 3rd, and K (now in 9th, 6th, and 3rd, so it was an older version).

 

I thought it was great. However, it was TOO much for me. The teacher notes were overwhelming. The reading was overwhelming (but my kids loved most of the literature). Weekly trips to the library, even though it was within walking distance, was too time consuming. The cost was high, but the thought of being able to resale it was redeeming (very disappointed when I got less than half of what I paid for it). The planning was time consuming.

 

I was generally pleased with the content of ToG. We left it after one year. It was very hard to sell. I actually had it for two or three years before anyone was interested.

[Guest aquiverfull]

Dana..lol. I understand completely. My kid is from another planet as well. She is so uninterested in history. I get the "I don't know"s all too often as well. :tongue_smilie:

 

That's another reason why my husband says that I stress too much over history. He says it won't matter what I buy, our dd just doesn't care about history.

 

Sometimes, I want to give up, really I do. We used WP AS1. It's pretty great. Awesome, kid friendly, very visually pleasing books. Great activities, etc. We were talking about american history the other day and she just tells me how much she hates it and how boring it is. What?? I kid you not. And that was after I used all those awesome books...lol. I think she really needs to see what history is like in public school. ;)

 

Val, thank you for sharing your viewpoint. I'll be honest that dealing with the library is really not my cup of tea. It's not really convenient since it's about a 30 minute drive. It's not always easy going with three little ones tagging along. So that's why TOG would be so expensive for me. It would mean buying a lot of books or doing like the others suggested and just buying a few of the spines. Not sure I wanna spend a lot on the teacher's guide and only use parts of it b/c I can afford the other books, ya know?

[M&M]

I'll be honest that dealing with the library is really not my cup of tea. It's not really convenient since it's about a 30 minute drive. It's not always easy going with three little ones tagging along. So that's why TOG would be so expensive for me. It would mean buying a lot of books or doing like the others suggested and just buying a few of the spines. Not sure I wanna spend a lot on the teacher's guide and only use parts of it b/c I can afford the other books, ya know?

 

 

I hate our library. Wait did I mention that I HATE our library? When I had 3 little ones and one on the way I decided that I would focus on living books. I would focus on having what I needed on hand so I would not have to drag my very pg self to the library in the snow with little ones. Did I mention the FINES? Oh I decided I would use that money to start my own library. I didn't have a lot of money, so I went to library sales, church sales, private school sales, homeschool curriculum sales, and culled the shelves of the grandparents. I looked at e-bay and purchased some of the Sonlight core books. Honestly, some of the most popular books are used by most of the main currucula that you see here. I tried to pick up as much classic literature as I could find. There are great book lists in WTM, we will use some of those in place of some of the TOG books. The point is, if your library is not useful, at some point you are going to be purchasing books. If you take your time you can make wise choices.

 

I have one more year plan of TOG to purchase and then I will only have to pick up the R level books and I will be set for all of my children all the way through high school. Not bad wouldn't you say?

 

I don't want to push you in any direction. I think the hardest part of choosing what to use now compared to 10 years ago is that there are soo many choices. When you look at the first edition of WTM, for grammar stage history you picked a spine book and added in lots of library books, did a narration, drew a picture and you were done. When SOTW came out everyone on these boards were jumping for joy. Hillyer was the only narrative available. There seem to be more and more choices available daily. You can always wait, purchase the simplest thing (like SOTW) and then see if you need more.

 

I chose TOG because I had no clue how to move from grammar stage teacher into logic stage and then rhetoric. TOG holds my hand and shows me and helps me to see the Christian worldview even 6 years of Christian School did not teach me. I loved WTM from the first moment I picked it up, it gave me the 12year plan, I could see where I was going K-12. TOG is helping me to get there, I needed a tool to help me teach the uppper levels, to coordinate all of my children so we were all in the same time period for history, and help me not to leave my little ones waiting while Mom tried to teach the bigger kids. If I had purchased it sooner (although only the classic was available and that is much harder to use imho) I would be better prepared and would have more books on my shelf for the R level (LOL!).

 

Ok, sorry for the ramble, my kids have been running in and out...I hope this make some sense. Must go put kids to bed and find some chocolate.

[momee]

"Another thing that's scary about TOG is the fact that the more threads I read about it, the more I see those same people who used to love TOG who have now moved on to something else, lol. "

 

 

Just wanted to address this. I was a mover on-er :)

I felt TOG was expensive and required too much time for "history" in my day. I left it for Sonlight, I left it for Bibiloplan and I left it for WTM/WEM. Now that I have a high schooler, I really, really feel TOG is giving me the tools I need to educate my son the way I want to.

 

It is improtant for me that my children be taught the spiritual implications of a historical event. That's not directed to a teacher per say in WTM/WEM. To do so, I would have to either know it, or schedule and research it.

 

It was important for me to include my other children in what we were studying so that when one is having a discussion, they all benefit from "listening in". Sonlight for my family is multi-core and that means studying different things at different times.

 

I needed to be clued in on the background of an event, reminded of the scripture that applies to a specific decision or act of God's sovereignity, or given extra resources to look further. Biblioplan didn't do that. TOG teaches philosophy and worldview and geography. The simplicity of BP is not an advantage to this mom who was poorly educated and needing to learn right along with the kids. I needed more than simple or ease of use. This is a big deciding factor. What works for some is a pain to others and seen as cumbersome or extra. It's hard work and I wanted out of it, so I switched. Multiple times :)

 

While those other resources were quality, they did not give me personally the tools to educate. The guided lit discussions, the book recommendations and background on author, bias and literary terms, worldview information regarding history and the philosophical underpinnings are not things that occur to me naturally to bring up in our weekly study. Nor, as a mom of many, do I have the time or honestly the inclination to do so.

 

I have four children and a husband. My time is limited to spend on learning ahead of my high schooler. In my experience. I'm saying in my experience...nothing else I found does that one stop shopping type gathering of information for me like TOG. AGain, some moms don't want/need this. That's why you hear so often TOG is icing in the younger grades. I think this is misunderstood. It does not imply, at least when I say it, that TOG is sweetness that's not needed. You're developing exposure and frame of reference in those younger children so that WHEN you get them to the dialectic and rhetoric stages, they're at least not having to do the ground level work of figuring out WHAT was the Revolution all about or who WERE the Egyptians. It builds on itself. TOG is giving those younger guys hooks to hang later info.

 

Teaching a lower grammar student from SOTW and being responsible for teaching a high schooler are two totally! different experiences. Both present mom with very different needs. Marcia implicitly states building the three R's and securing that knowledge is key.

 

The draw of TOG are the multi age, multi disciplinary factors. The downside is definitely the cost.

HTH

ps I know the toughness of decision making and hope my comments have not swayed anyone against something they've decided on. It's a tough thing spending money on something and having no idea if it's going to work. Sometimes you just have to use it for a bit and see. BP or TOG. I've definitely btdt. Funny, I'm even revamping some stuff now because what worked for one child isn't! working for the next one.:lol:

Edited February 21, 2010 by momee

[mommyagain]

Thank you Momee!! It's for all the reasons that you mentioned that I know that TOG is in our future. I'm going to spend a year or two with Biblioplan while concentrating more on reading and math. It's inexpensive enough that I won't feel I've wasted my money when I switch. I'm just not ready for the TOG "overload" while I have a 2yr old and a 1yr old!!

Thank you again for your opinion! I do get it.

[dsacco]

I have now added in the Writing Aids program so I can "test drive" it before next year when I decide if I want to spend the $$ on an IEW course or "can I teach them how to write".

 

What I like IMMEDIATELY is that the writing is tied into the history which they are reading.

 

We have now set up the week like this:

 

MTW - History reading

WTF - History/Write Aids WRITING

 

LOOKING at it - I like the layout.... I like that 2 kids are "working" at the same general thing for this stuff.

 

Friday's we are doing the evaluations for each kid so we can assess what is going on and do they understand everything.

 

Week 2 starts tomorrow and I seriously hope it goes as well as week 1 did :)

[lovinmomma]

Wow! Thank you so much for that post!

 

"Another thing that's scary about TOG is the fact that the more threads I read about it, the more I see those same people who used to love TOG who have now moved on to something else, lol. "

 

 

Just wanted to address this. I was a mover on-er :)

I felt TOG was expensive and required too much time for "history" in my day. I left it for Sonlight, I left it for Bibiloplan and I left it for WTM/WEM. Now that I have a high schooler, I really, really feel TOG is giving me the tools I need to educate my son the way I want to.

 

It is improtant for me that my children be taught the spiritual implications of a historical event. That's not directed to a teacher per say in WTM/WEM. To do so, I would have to either know it, or schedule and research it.

 

It was important for me to include my other children in what we were studying so that when one is having a discussion, they all benefit from "listening in". Sonlight for my family is multi-core and that means studying different things at different times.

 

I needed to be clued in on the background of an event, reminded of the scripture that applies to a specific decision or act of God's sovereignity, or given extra resources to look further. Biblioplan didn't do that. TOG teaches philosophy and worldview and geography. The simplicity of BP is not an advantage to this mom who was poorly educated and needing to learn right along with the kids. I needed more than simple or ease of use. This is a big deciding factor. What works for some is a pain to others and seen as cumbersome or extra. It's hard work and I wanted out of it, so I switched. Multiple times :)

 

While those other resources were quality, they did not give me personally the tools to educate. The guided lit discussions, the book recommendations and background on author, bias and literary terms, worldview information regarding history and the philosophical underpinnings are not things that occur to me naturally to bring up in our weekly study. Nor, as a mom of many, do I have the time or honestly the inclination to do so.

 

I have four children and a husband. My time is limited to spend on learning ahead of my high schooler. In my experience. I'm saying in my experience...nothing else I found does that one stop shopping type gathering of information for me like TOG. AGain, some moms don't want/need this. That's why you hear so often TOG is icing in the younger grades. I think this is misunderstood. It does not imply, at least when I say it, that TOG is sweetness that's not needed. You're developing exposure and frame of reference in those younger children so that WHEN you get them to the dialectic and rhetoric stages, they're at least not having to do the ground level work of figuring out WHAT was the Revolution all about or who WERE the Egyptians. It builds on itself. TOG is giving those younger guys hooks to hang later info.

 

Teaching a lower grammar student from SOTW and being responsible for teaching a high schooler are two totally! different experiences. Both present mom with very different needs. Marcia implicitly states building the three R's and securing that knowledge is key.

 

The draw of TOG are the multi age, multi disciplinary factors. The downside is definitely the cost.

HTH

ps I know the toughness of decision making and hope my comments have not swayed anyone against something they've decided on. It's a tough thing spending money on something and having no idea if it's going to work. Sometimes you just have to use it for a bit and see. BP or TOG. I've definitely btdt. Funny, I'm even revamping some stuff now because what worked for one child isn't! working for the next one.:lol:

[jewel7123]

I've never used BP. I did use TOG when dc were in 6th, 3rd, and K (now in 9th, 6th, and 3rd, so it was an older version).

 

I thought it was great. However, it was TOO much for me. The teacher notes were overwhelming. The reading was overwhelming (but my kids loved most of the literature). Weekly trips to the library, even though it was within walking distance, was too time consuming. The cost was high, but the thought of being able to resale it was redeeming (very disappointed when I got less than half of what I paid for it). The planning was time consuming.

 

I was generally pleased with the content of ToG. We left it after one year. It was very hard to sell. I actually had it for two or three years before anyone was interested.

 

Just want to verify....were you using the Classic version of TOG and not the redesign? Thanks