HOD strengths and weaknesses?

[crl]

I have used HOD LHTH, LHFHG and some of Beyond. I'm now looking into a more classical/traditional education for math and LA. DD seems to need a good phonics program since she has some of the signs for dyslexia. She is 6 (7 in May) and in 1st grade. So for LA we are using ETC books 4-6, AAS level 1 (just started), and FLL 1&2 (which she is zooming through). I'm considering adding WWE 1, not sure yet. For math we are using Abeka and love it. So in history and science is HOD enough? Should I be considering finishing SOTW 1 (we've done through chapter 21) and God's Design for those instead? We're finding that DD seems advanced in most subjects except LA which seems to be at grade level. I guess I'm torn between the Christ centered HOD and the very thorough SOTW.

 

Here are my main concerns with SOTW:

Not from a Biblical point of view.

Uses lots of myths and other gods.

 

What's a conservative mom to do?

[lotsofpumpkins]

I would say that HOD is plenty, but if you want something similar to SOTW but more biblical, then get Mystery of History.

 

I am going to be using HOD Bigger starting in the spring with a 3rd grader, 2nd grader, and Kindergartener. They will all be using their own levels of math and LA (we use CLE for Math, R&S for phonics and English and spelling (though we may use the spelling/dictation in HOD instead)). The following year I will either find a way to make Preparing work for all of them, or else do MOH Volume 1 for history and an apologia book for science. This coming school year we are going to do Bigger's science AND apologia astronomy (we are finishing up zoology 1 and we have really enjoyed it). I had tried out Beyond earlier this school year then left it, and I'm going back to HOD because I don't do a very good job covering the Bible study/memory stuff without it! Plus we'll be learning hymns and reading poetry, all stuff that I strive to schedule on my own, but never get to.

Edited February 1, 2010 by lotsofpumpkins

[crl]

So is Bigger doable with a second grader? I've heard most people do it with older kids.

[Tree House Academy]

I couldn't do Beyond with my 1st grader even though he is "advanced." The history was over his head. I would never even try Bigger with him! My 5th grader did some of Bigger (it was not a good fit for him) and I would say that guide is probably more of a 3rd grade level by itself (we did it with extensions).

 

I think HOD history and science is enough; however, I don't think it is for every child. I love HOD. We have used LHFHG this year with my youngest son and the history is mostly Biblical. We do the History, Bible verse, devotional, etc. We do skip the Science. I use CLE because he prefers that workbook type format.

 

I totally understand your quandry. There are parts of HOD that I dearly, truly LOVE. I think the Bible work and memorization is, hands down one of the most well done programs out there. However, the Charlotte Mason approach is a tough one for a mom who is very classically minded. I have managed to blend the two for now. Not sure what next year will hold. However, my 6.5 year old son became a Christian last Wednesday while we were doing a devotional from LHFHG. He accepted Jesus into his heart after learning so much this year with HOD. Because of this, HOD will always hold a very special place in my heart!

[MerryAtHope]

AAS is great for kids with Dyslexia & is a complete phonics program. I have seen my kids' reading improve a lot with using it. Hang in there!

 

We really like Mystery of History too, it does a good job of weaving Biblical history with the rest of world history.

 

I haven't minded exposing my kids to Greek Myths and other religions (I haven't used SOTW, but did use Sonlight when my kids were this age, which has similar issues--using MOH along with it helped us a lot). I think it's better for my kids to be exposed to these things in the home where we can talk through them over time, than for them to be surprised by them from other places. But I understand that not everyone feels comfortable discussing these issues in 1st grade. (My son actually dictated a very funny, made-up "Greek Myth" of his own to me in 2nd grade, what a hoot! Some of the best descriptive language he had ever used went into that. Such a boy thing!).

 

Merry :-)

[Homemama2]

I have been struggling w/ this as well. For 'me' (and I know christians differ on their opinions on this) mythology is not something I want to get into at this age. But I haven't been really able to find what I'm looking for. What I'm using for next year is Sotw 1 with the activity guide, but I went through all the chapters so I could figure out what parts I want to skip. I also plan to read any of the 'bible' stories (on Abraham, Jesus etc) from the bible, rather than from SOTW. I have a copy of MOH 1 as well, but I know this will be over my first graders head, so we will probably not use it too much. I'd love to hear others opinions as well....:bigear:

[Daisy]

I'm doing Bigger with a 2nd grader. It is a lot for a struggling writer but we are getting through it just fine.

 

I'm also doing CTC with my 10yo.

 

So in history and science is HOD enough?

 

Yes. The only thing I wish WAS in CTC is what you are glad is missing. I wish they included mythology (basic informational) and a focus on non-Greco/Roman ancient history.

 

We also are a conservative Christian family but, now in the logic stage, I feel my daughter is ready for more exposure to that part of history.

[birchbark]

I haven't used HoD a ton yet but their selections for language arts ARE more classical/traditional than Charlotte Mason. I just read a post by Carrie (the writer) that explains their approach. Here is the thread. Her post is toward the end.

 

And I believe the skills taught in WWE (like dictation) are covered in the HoD guides. Maybe someone who knows more can comment on this. The history is wonderful, and the science, while lighter, would still be sufficient. So if you added in some extra phonics you may have all you need. Simple is always good. :)

 

I also was turned off by all the mythology in SOTW for this age. Fine for someday, but not now. This was one of the reasons I was attracted to HoD for history. We are doing Bigger for American history, and it is really going well.

[angela&4boys]

There are several pros, but the one that stands out for me:

 

Carrie does an exceptional job of correlating history, Bible, character, geography, and science (loosely) within the time period all in a Christ-centered manner.

 

We are using Bigger and although I do *not* want to study a one-year sweep of world history, I'm considering their Preparing program for next year based on those same reasons. My 9yo ds in particular is really enjoying history this year and has deemed it his favorite subject. That's a sales-pitch in itself. :)

[Sheila in OK]

I am using Bigger this year with my 9 & 11 yo's. We're enjoying it for the most part. Here are some of the strengths:

 

- all laid out for you. Of course if you dislike any of the resources, it throws the whole plan off so this can be a weakness too.

- Like Angela said, everything is tied together--history, science, Bible.

- Poetry study. We are really enjoying this, and it seems to only get better in future guides.

- Extension books for older students included which tie into history. This has been GREAT for my 11 yo.

 

For us, one of the main weaknesses is the science. I know my 11yo is beyond it and I expected that, but I don't really like it for my younger child either. I'm not crazy about the One Small Square books and we found the Science in Colonial America book a bit dry (may be just us). The kids both enjoyed the Audubon book however, and we're all looking forward to starting Pioneer Sampler next week! If we continue with Preparing next year, I definitely will do my own thing for science.

 

I also am not crazy about the Bible in Bigger. Most days it is just practicing a memory verse from Proverbs, with one longer reading each week and one reading from the devotional 'Little Pillows' each week. My dc don't enjoy Little Pillows at all. The Bible does look a bit meatier in Preparing however.

 

HTH a bit.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Sheila in OK
typos

[crl]

Thanks for the responses. It seems like the history and science should be enough for a 2nd grader. I see now that Rod and Staff is the recommended grammar which is also a WTM suggestion, so I'll have to give that a closer look.

 

We've been enjoying Beyond with our own math and spelling this year, but I just wasn't sure if Bigger was doable with a 2nd grader and if it was meaty enough since my DH really wants DD to start digging in more. Looks like we can put those concerns to rest.

[NavyWifeandMommy]

the focus is more on history than science, imo. It does tie in together and my daugther loves preparing. I am also torn between the following guide and with SOTW.

[Donna T.]

I love HOD and plan to stick with it for the long-haul. I like just about everything about it. For me, the only real weakness is that it doesn't schedule as much art or music appreciation as I'd like. However, I know that is because Carrie didn't want the guides to become too much . And, my oldest son is learning to draw this year with Preparing, so I really can't complain. He has never made progress with a drawing program before. The way that it is tied to the history really engages him and the step by step instruction has given him confidence.

 

I think the science content is light but my sons are on the older side of the age ranges for their guides. If they were a grade behind, I think it would have been a better fit for them. However, this isn't really a negative for me. We enjoy using science kits, taking nature walks, watching science videos, and reading natural history titles. And, we have never done lab sheets before and now we are doing them regularly, plus my oldest son has progressed in his ability to read the text and write out his answers to the questions from the readings. He also likes it when she ties the copywork in to the science.

 

I will be doing Bigger Hearts next year with my then 3rd grader. I'm not sure if he could have handled it as it is written earlier this year. I think he would have grown into it around Christmas and probably would have done fine after that. You can always take it at your own pace. I plan to add some picture books and read through The Little House on the Prairie series while we are doing Bigger Hearts.

[birchbark]

Another reason I like HoD is that the upper levels schedule only four days a week. That leaves Friday (or whatever day you pick) totally free. You can add in art, music, foreign language, field trips, or whatever you like and not feel overwhelmed.

[crl]

While I appreciate that the upper levels have only 4 days scheduled, I can get that with other programs now such as WP who also has a very fun looking American history set. I guess I'm really trying to talk myself out of WP due to the price and stick with HOD which seems to be a solid well rounded program instead of being very pricey and possibly history heavy like WP.

[Donna A.]

While I appreciate that the upper levels have only 4 days scheduled, I can get that with other programs now such as WP who also has a very fun looking American history set. I guess I'm really trying to talk myself out of WP due to the price and stick with HOD which seems to be a solid well rounded program instead of being very pricey and possibly history heavy like WP.

 

Maybe MFW be kind of an "in between" HOD and WP?

 

I like some things about HOD, and I like some things MFW, but I've never been tempted by WP. Too pricey and not really biblically integrated enough for me.

[Guest aquiverfull]

Maybe MFW be kind of an "in between" HOD and WP?

 

I like some things about HOD, and I like some things MFW, but I've never been tempted by WP. Too pricey and not really biblically integrated enough for me.

 

I've heard MFW's Bible portion described as non-denominational. Is this also true of HOD's bible portion?

[lovetobehome]

It very definitely has a protestant flavor, and a focus on teaching how to pray (protestant style) in Preparing and CTC.

[Donna A.]

It very definitely has a protestant flavor, and a focus on teaching how to pray (protestant style) in Preparing and CTC.

 

Umm, well, many Baptists don't consider themselves Protestant, and they might pray the same way. ;)

 

That would still be non-denominational.... but definitely Christian.

[lovetobehome]

Interesting! Some Baptists don't consider themselves Protestant? I had to look this up! Here is a graphic that shows the branches of the Christian church, though I know people can dispute such things, and I don't want to do that! We used to be independent housechurchers, and we didn't align with a particular denomination, but our beliefs were still Protestant because they weren't Catholic or Orthodox, and they came from the Reformation ideas....so we were Protestant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations (scroll down)

I guess I meant....not Catholic or Orthodox. HOD would not have a Catholic or Orthodox flavor, but the flavor of those Christians who typically call themselves Protestant, or descended from the Reformation. Does that clarify or make it worse?

I would say it has a non-Catholic/ non-Orthodox Christian flavor.... :-) Does this help the OP?

[Donna A.]

Interesting! Some Baptists don't consider themselves Protestant? I had to look this up! Here is a graphic that shows the branches of the Christian church, though I know people can dispute such things, and I don't want to do that! We used to be independent housechurchers, and we didn't align with a particular denomination, but our beliefs were still Protestant because they weren't Catholic or Orthodox, and they came from the Reformation ideas....so we were Protestant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations (scroll down)

I guess I meant....not Catholic or Orthodox. HOD would not have a Catholic or Orthodox flavor, but the flavor of those Christians who typically call themselves Protestant, or descended from the Reformation. Does that clarify or make it worse?

I would say it has a non-Catholic/ non-Orthodox Christian flavor.... :-) Does this help the OP?

 

Agree with the non-Catholic/non-Orthodox flavor.... But Baptists and Anabaptists were made up largely of a group completely separate from those who came out of the Reformation. :)

 

Now granted, there are some Baptists today who are fine with the term "Protestant".... but many who are not. So you have to be careful with that.

 

That said, the history of the Baptists has already been discussed at length on this board. :D It wasn't my intention to get into that again, but merely to clarify that non-Protestant Baptists would be fine with the Bible in HOD curriculum (as well as MFW). The Gospel and diety of Christ is clearly presented in both.

[lovetobehome]

It wasn't my intention to get into that again, but merely to clarify that non-Protestant Baptists would be fine with the Bible in HOD curriculum (as well as MFW). The Gospel and diety of Christ is clearly presented in both.

 

I completely agree with both these statements! :iagree:

:grouphug:

[Donna A.]

Interesting! Some Baptists don't consider themselves Protestant? I had to look this up! Here is a graphic that shows the branches of the Christian church, though I know people can dispute such things, and I don't want to do that! We used to be independent housechurchers, and we didn't align with a particular denomination, but our beliefs were still Protestant because they weren't Catholic or Orthodox, and they came from the Reformation ideas....so we were Protestant.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations (scroll down)

 

 

I will say, though, that I just took a peek at that chart. Interesting! Now see, that was always *my* understanding of the history of the Baptists, too.... just like that chart shows it. But many of my Baptist friends tell me otherwise. :001_rolleyes: I have yet to find an actual book or documentation that SHOWS me that Baptists/Anabaptists descended directly from the early church without any association whatsoever with the Reformation. I'd love it if someone could give me a book title or other resource to show this. Please PM me, though... it's not my desire to hijack the OP's thread with this topic. :lol:

 

I think part of the confusion comes from the fact that there are so many different flavors of Baptist and Anabaptist. :tongue_smilie:

[GESTEP]

We started with HOD last year with Bigger for a 9 and just turned 8 yo. The Eggleston book, A First Book in American History, was way over the 8 yo's head and personally none of us enjoyed it much. The other Eggleston book, Stories of Great Americans we liked well enough but nothing exceptional. Overall I do not like the history choices well enough to use the entire program so we have been picking just the ones we like from the extensions and will finish reading Stories of Great Americans and skip the rest of A First Book. I would rather use book lists from Sonlight, HOD, MFW, BF, etc and add an activity when we have time or need a change. On the HOD boards I have seen the same issues mentioned but alternatives have not been offered just explanations that it is an acquired taste that takes time to enjoy. We tried, but just never got to the point of enjoying it.

As for the Science, it is light but we enjoy it. For a 7 yo I think it is perfect in that it covers different topics without alot of detail, there is notebooking, simple experiments, living books and making diagrams with labels. If something sparks an interest then add to it with other resources. If they are not interested then you don't have to spend a month on something they just are not getting. We enjoyed the One Small Square books but quite a few others do not like these books. I like the notebooking that is drawn from these books otherwise I think they could be a bit dull.

The Bible focuses on character rather than just Bible study alone. I think it adds depth and helps in character development.

The strengths of HOD are the "open and go" of the guide books, the nice little boxes that break everything down are visually appealing and easy to follow, the amount of work expected at each level, and that it covers some of those areas that you may be missing such as poetry, using a timeline, making maps, notebooking, copywork, etc. I find it easy to add or remove to the program without losing the effect but others have said they felt otherwise. Our favorite parts are the science, Bible, activities, geography and read alouds. We use our own math and R&S for grammar but at our own pace along with other LA curriculum.

The big weakness for us was the book choices. I may still buy a guide just to use for ideas of activities and what to expect at each level but probably will not use the full package for Preparing, but we are still deciding. I hope that helps you see the strengths and weaknesses that we experienced, but it may be different for you family.

 

Gina

[lovetobehome]

I think Gina's explanation of strengths and weaknesses is very good, we feel similarly about it.

[Guest aquiverfull]

Thanks Lovetobehome and Donna A for answering my questions about the Bible portion. I was just curious, as I'm still thinking about history and whether I want boxed or give it a go on my own. :)

 

Gina, thanks for sharing your experiences. I haven't tried HOD, only considering it, but I already feel that way about some of the books. In CTC (the program I would use if we go with HOD) the main spine is the Story of the Ancient World by Miller. I tried reading some samples online and I found that book hard to read. I know my dd would find it very difficult to read. It just seemed sooooo dry to me. I thought well maybe it could work as a read-aloud. Then I saw Carrie mentioning to someone else, who also didn't like it, that it was meant to be read by the child and the program would not have the same effect if done the other way.

 

Overall, the independent thing is the biggest turn-off to me as I'm considering HOD. So has anyone who has done CTC worked through the books as read-alouds instead of the suggested independent readings? Do you think it could work that way?

Thanks!

Edited February 5, 2010 by aquiverfull

[crl]

I agree the independent thing is a big turn off to me. My DD and I enjoy working on history together. I'd miss the great conversations we've had. And We seem to enjoy science as an entire family. So maybe this isn't such a good fit for us in the upper levels. I still love LHFHG. I think it really helped lead my daughter to the Lord and then strengthened her early faith.

[crl]

We started with HOD last year with Bigger for a 9 and just turned 8 yo. The Eggleston book, A First Book in American History, was way over the 8 yo's head and personally none of us enjoyed it much. The other Eggleston book, Stories of Great Americans we liked well enough but nothing exceptional.

 

I was worried about this since my DD is younger than the ages you mentioned. I guess we'll be searching out some used WP packages.

 

I love the idea of HOD with the unit study feel and the Bible weaved in. But I guess I'll be looking at other sources to help me do this.

[angela&4boys]

oops

Edited February 6, 2010 by angela&4boys

[angela&4boys]

I agree the independent thing is a big turn off to me. My DD and I enjoy working on history together. I'd miss the great conversations we've had. And We seem to enjoy science as an entire family. So maybe this isn't such a good fit for us in the upper levels. I still love LHFHG. I think it really helped lead my daughter to the Lord and then strengthened her early faith.

 

You could still do most of it with her! I look at the TG as suggestions, but you could tweak it to fit the needs and desires of your family.:)

 

As you may have read in my previous post, my 9yo reads Bigger's read-alouds independently. However, we do the activities together.

 

Just a thought...

[angela&4boys]

In CTC (the program I would use if we go with HOD) the main spine is the Story of the Ancient World by Miller. I tried reading some samples online and I found that book hard to read. I know my dd would find it very difficult to read. It just seemed sooooo dry to me.

 

I agree completely. This is one reason we'll be looking elsewhere after Preparing. Bummer.

[Guest aquiverfull]

I agree the independent thing is a big turn off to me. My DD and I enjoy working on history together. I'd miss the great conversations we've had. And We seem to enjoy science as an entire family. So maybe this isn't such a good fit for us in the upper levels. I still love LHFHG. I think it really helped lead my daughter to the Lord and then strengthened her early faith.

 

I'm glad that I'm not alone in feeling that way. I think the idea of HOD is really great. In seeing the samples, I really like how she ties everything together so nicely. I like a lot of the books she chooses and the notebooking pages look neat. However, I really want to do history and science with my dd for the main reasons you mentioned. I guess I'm just used to that with WP and SL. Oh well.

 

I agree completely. This is one reason we'll be looking elsewhere after Preparing. Bummer.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one. There are lot of posts on here about how wonderful that book is. I was beginning to think I was the only one who found it hard to read. I wonder why she didn't use MOH v 1 and 2 since she uses 3 in RTR?

[lovetobehome]

I guess you could do CTC and just read the history and science together instead of letting DC do it independently... where to go next, that is the question! I have it all figured out except history!

[jewel7123]

CRL, just wondering if you have looked into My Father's World at all? I know Story of the World is used in at least two of their upper level programs.

[Guest aquiverfull]

I guess you could do CTC and just read the history and science together instead of letting DC do it independently... where to go next, that is the question! I have it all figured out except history!

 

I wondered about that, but then I saw one post on the HOD forums where Carrie was basically saying the books aren't laid out like that. The books she had chosen were meant to be read by the student, and since each of the middle school packages get more difficult in reading ability each year would have to then be tweaked. So do you think that is an accurate statement? Do you think the curriculum would have the same effect if done together?

 

Yes, history just drives me crazy. I pretty much know what we are doing in every other subject. I stress so much over it, as you know. :) I'm still considering just going on my own with MOH and some other things. I just get worried that I won't follow through and feel like I need that schedule to keep me on track. :glare: I do appreciate all your help. :)

[Donna T.]

I wondered about that, but then I saw one post on the HOD forums where Carrie was basically saying the books aren't laid out like that. The books she had chosen were meant to be read by the student, and since each of the middle school packages get more difficult in reading ability each year would have to then be tweaked. So do you think that is an accurate statement? Do you think the curriculum would have the same effect if done together?

 

 

 

For me, this is one of the strengths of HOD. I love how the independent work builds on itself in each guide. I want my children to be able to "handle" their own history, science, and literature readings by the time they are in the logic stage. This whole "logic stage" thing was something that was very abstract for me for a long time. I really didn't understand how very much a child changes when he hits that stage of development. But, I've seen my 5th grader do that this year and it's just been amazing. In my opinion, my 5th grader (and on up) needs an increasing amount of independent work in all areas of his curriculum. I think the amount of independent work in HOD is an age appropriate amount that matches up well with a child's abilities... if you are using the guides for the ages that they are recommended for.

 

You can do whatever you want with the guides. HOD is as flexible in that way as any other boxed curriculum. I think Carrie stresses the independent work because it fits in with the Charlotte Mason approach. In a pure CM approach you would have the child doing their own readings even earlier than HOD has them doing so. HOD begins that process with the child's readers, having the child to narrate and answer questions about their reading from the Emerging Reader's package on up. Regardless, there is no reason why you couldn't use a "Sonlight" way with a HOD guide IF you otherwise enjoy HOD. I guess if one doesn't really like the books at all, there wouldn't be a point.

 

No matter what a curriculum has to offer, if I'm not enjoying the books or my children aren't understanding the readings, then it is not going to happen.

 

With CtC, if you do it as written and make no accomodations to make it fit your family (which I suspect everyone does in some way), you will be reading the Basic Package books out loud. For the history option, there are 10 titles that are to be read out loud to the child. A 6th or 7th grader using CtC should listen to those and also read the Extension Package books for himself (if you don't tweak - adapt - the program). So, there does continue to be that sharing of history with the child to some degree. A younger child may rather listen to one of the other Packages, the Boy Interest or the Girl Interest books, but an older child will need the additional historical content of the the History Interest set.

 

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything with HOD!! There are so many good curricula available to us. The logic stage history section in The Well Trained Mind lays out a very simple plan if you find that a boxed curriculum is not what you want to do. I prefer HOD because I love the narrative spines that are used. If it served our needs and my goals for my kids, I would just read more of the books outloud rather than change curricula.

 

If I were combining my children into one HOD guide, I would read as much of it aloud as I needed to to accomodate my younger child. (And, so far, this year, my oldest son has read over half of the Science in his program out loud to my younger son. They love that.) At this point, I'm pretty sure I will continue to have them in their own separate programs and I'm glad that my older son will be increasingly independent with his books.

Edited February 6, 2010 by Donna T.

[Alison in KY]

How much is Story of the Ancient World used in CTC? Like several other posters I thought it looked dry, but I think the other suggestions looked good. Could you use anything else to replace it? Are the online samples not a good representation of that book?

 

Alison

[crl]

Thanks for all the replies. Since my hubby wants DD to study American history now and we want the ability to combine my two kids when it's possible, we will be trying WinterPromise for now. Our last try didn't work out because I think DD was too young for the program as written and I was too new to homeschooling to fully understand how to tweak it. HOD was great for her early years and I wish that the spine books in Bigger weren't so dry for her since I have enjoyed the layout and approach so far.

[birchbark]

Another option for American history is the free program from Guesthollow. It looks really good. And I think I read somewhere that it is similar to Winterpromise. :confused:

[kdeno]

I read aloud much of the independent books. For DITHOR I read ahead of my son, who then reads independently. I hope I am not shortchanging my oldest by not having him do all the independent work "independently".

[crl]

Thanks for the suggestion of guest hollow. I like the looks of it, but I need to buy books no matter what use since our library doesn't seem to have a lot of the books listed for either curriculum. And since I can find the WP packages used, it will probably be cheaper that way.