TT not mulitple user friendly?

[M&M]

My friend has Pre-algebra TT and wanted to purchase the (student book) textbook for her next dd. It looks like she can only purchase the texbook/answer key combo for $79.95. Why would you be required to purchase something you already own with the original set? They don't sell the consumable part seperately?

 

I was considering TT, but if this is true, I would have to reconsider. With 5 dc, I don't want to spend that much money on an already pricey program.

 

Tell me it isn't so!

[mrs.m]

That appears to be the price for the consumables but you will still have the CDs. My DD does all her work on in a seperate notebook because there isn't much room for her to work. And it's a HUGE book which makes it difficult to work in. So I'll be able to reuse/resell it later. We are using TT6.

[DarlaS]

I don't think they consider it consumable at that level, which is why it's bundled with the answer key. They assume you may buy it (as a complete program--not as a workbook replacement) with or without the cd's.

[M&M]

So, the student doesn't write in the textbook? I have not seen the book, but my df thought that it would be challenging to have the student write answers on a separate paper.

[mrs.m]

So, the student doesn't write in the textbook? I have not seen the book, but my df thought that it would be challenging to have the student write answers on a separate paper.

 

Not any more challenging than doing it with any other math textbook. DD didn't feel she had enough space in the workbook and prefers to use plain paper for her math problems. You can write in the workbook but you can also choose to do the problems on seperate paper. Keep in mind that I'm using TT6. There may be something that I don't know about the upper levels. I know that program changes in the upper levels. But it isn't very often that you can't do the work on seperate paper in any workbook.

[Lolly]

So, the student doesn't write in the textbook? I have not seen the book, but my df thought that it would be challenging to have the student write answers on a separate paper.

 

No, you do not write the answers in the textbook. It is not at all challenging for most children in pre-alg. to copy the problems and work them on separate paper. With the multiple steps necessary to derive the answers, having the student work in the text would have a book so thick that no one would ever consider using it. It would also be extremely expensive. That is why almost all math programs to to a regular textbook starting around 3rd grade when long division and multiplication of double digits begin.

 

If the student has worked in the text, you might be able to call the toll free number and speak to the TT people about ordering just a student text. I'd bet that they would be willing to do it.

Edited January 3, 2010 by Lolly

[M&M]

That is why almost all math programs to to a regular textbook starting around 3rd grade when long division and multiplication of double digits begin..

 

This is true for traditional math programs, but many homeschooling programs do allow for students to write in the book.

 

If the student has worked in the text, you might be able to call the toll free number and speak to the TT people about ordering just a student text. I'd bet that they would be willing to do it.

 

It is my understanding that they will not do this.

 

Keep in mind that I'm using TT6. There may be something that I don't know about the upper levels. I know that program changes in the upper levels.

 

 

Yes, this is my understanding as well. That is why I specified the Pre-Algebra program.

 

But it isn't very often that you can't do the work on seperate paper in any workbook

 

True, but it is nice to have the option. If I had two children working at the same level, I would want each to have thier own text, and I would not need two sets of answer keys. KWIM?

 

I think that since TT is spiral bound is may appear to be a consumable book. Why not sell the components seperately? When you are homeschooling a large number of children (my df has 7, sometimes you need fleixbility in how you use books). If she knew she could not have purchased the text seperately, I am sure she would have used TT differently.

[M&M]

I think you are right. Df didn't realize this when she purchased.

[April in NC]

We are using TT5, which really is meant for the student to write in the workbook, and it still comes bundled with the answer key.

 

Honestly, the answer key is a small pamphlet. It isn't a big teacher's manual or anything. If it were sold separately, it surely couldn't be much $. I actually looked at it as though they included the answers for free, if you know what I mean!

[Lolly]

This is true for traditional math programs, but many homeschooling programs do allow for students to write in the book.

 

If the student has worked in the text, you might be able to call the toll free number and speak to the TT people about ordering just a student text. I'd bet that they would be willing to do it.

 

It is my understanding that they will not do this.

 

 

 

 

Yes, this is my understanding as well. That is why I specified the Pre-Algebra program.

 

 

But it isn't very often that you can't do the work on seperate paper in any workbook

 

True, but it is nice to have the option. If I had two children working at the same level, I would want each to have thier own text, and I would not need two sets of answer keys. KWIM?

 

I think that since TT is spiral bound is may appear to be a consumable book. Why not sell the components seperately? When you are homeschooling a large number of children (my df has 7, sometimes you need fleixbility in how you use books). If she knew she could not have purchased the text seperately, I am sure she would have used TT differently.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, technically you can write in any book, but I have never seen a math book that provided the space necessary to work out long math problems. The student must be working the problem out somewhere other than the book because some of these problems require a half a page or more to solve. While there may be a space that you could write the answer, there is no way the student could show their work in the book. The final answer just isn't good enough in math. The process is what is most important.

 

I do not know if TT will allow someone to purchase just the text. It sounds as if you have asked them? If they did allow it, it wouldn't be at much of a discount from the price with the answer key. The answer key just isn't going to be very expensive.

 

I would suggest that your friend watch for a used set to come up for sale on the boards. It would probably be cheaper than purchasing just a text from the publisher.

[M&M]

.

Well, technically you can write in any book, but I have never seen a math book that provided the space necessary to work out long math problems. The student must be working the problem out somewhere other than the book because some of these problems require a half a page or more to solve. While there may be a space that you could write the answer, there is no way the student could show their work in the book. The final answer just isn't good enough in math. The process is what is most important.

 

.

 

There are some programs that do this, Right Start and MUS come to mind.

I am fully aware that the final answer in math is not sufficient and the importance of the process.

 

I have never seen the program myself, I was not aware of the size of the answer book, I thought that it was more of a teacher's manual. Yes, technically you can write in any book, but for some reason df thought this book was consumable. Since she is not a new homeschooler, nor am I, her assessment of the book was that dd could and should write in it. The challenge when you have younger children doing higher maths is that sometimes it is easier for them to write in the book.

 

 

Since TT seems to be a computer based program, it seems that it is possible that the interaction between the computer and text could be different than a traditional math book of similar level. Wouldn't it be possible that some of the work is done on the computer? Couldn't the student book have fewer problems per page to work out like MUS?

 

My point is just because you haven't seen something doesn't discount the possiblity of it existing. And for myself, having not seen the program, I now have an answer. TT is non-comsumable in the Pre-Algebra level unlike the lower levels.

Edited January 3, 2010 by M&M
clarity

[M&M]

I had no idea it was that small! Would you be able to purchase the workbook for TT5 without the DVD's?

[mrs.m]

I had no idea it was that small! Would you be able to purchase the workbook for TT5 without the DVD's?

 

Yes but they don't list the replacement costs for the workbooks at the lower level. I'm guessing they are pretty costly as well. So it's hard to say if they are non-consumable if you base it on price. I always check how much it will cost me to replace a text before I allow my oldest to write in it. I prefer to reuse as much as possible. But DD (even working above level) has not complained about not writing in the text so I didn't check the price. She prefers more space.

 

You do not even need the work text in the lower levels since the problems are all presented on the computer. The work text is for students (like my DD) who prefer to move away from the computer to do their problem solving. I believe this changes in the upper levels (at prealgebra?) and they no longer enter their answers into the computer. Hopefully someone will let us know if the problems are presented on the computer as they are in the lower levels? I know it does not grade the student's work.

Edited January 3, 2010 by jannylynn
typos

[Corraleno]

you might be able to call the toll free number and speak to the TT people about ordering just a student text. I'd bet that they would be willing to do it.

 

I emailed TT a year or so ago and asked about buying additional workbooks for my DD in the future, since I already had the complete Pre-Algebra & Algebra programs, and they said yes. I think it was about $40 for just the workbook. It is not listed as an item you can "put in the cart" on the website, though, you have to call.

 

To answer another question: starting with Pre-Algebra, the lessons are on the computer but the problem sets are only in the workbook. All of the lessons are in the workbook as well, so the student does not technically need the CDs for the lessons. There are solutions to the problems on CD, but the student works the problems on paper.

 

Jackie

[M&M]

You do not even need the work text in the lower levels since the problems are all presented on the computer. The work text is for students (like my DD) who prefer to move away from the computer to do their problem solving. .

 

 

 

 

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I believe this changes in the upper levels (at prealgebra?) and they no longer enter their answers into the computer. Hopefully someone will let us know if the problems are presented on the computer as they are in the lower levels? .

 

See this is where there is confusion at least for me. I have only heard about the lower levels. I had never heard of a change in the upper levels. Maybe someone who has used the upper levels will know. I'll have to re-visit this tomorrow. I have planning to do for the a.m.

 

Thanks for your help.

[Corraleno]

OK, I've read all the responses here, and I see a lot of people saying "I understand they won't do this" and "no, you don't write in the textbook." Has anyone actually asked staff at TT, or are these just assumptions? In addition to my own communication with them, I have seen many people selling the upper levels of TT on ebay without the textbook/workbook, with a note saying you can simply buy a new one from TT.

 

I don't know if the issue here is that TT have suddenly changed their policy or if people here are confusing the upper level programs with the lower level programs, or what. The "text plus answer key" package that TT sells for $79.95 for the upper levels is a complete program. It is for people who want a cheaper alternative and do not need the CD-rom lessons or the solutions CD ~ all of the lessons are in the text. The "Answer Key and Test Bank" is 83 pages long and includes answers to all problem sets, plus chapter tests, plus answers to the tests.

 

It is my understanding, as of a year or so ago, that if someone already owns the complete TT program with CDs, and simply needs a new textbook, then TT will sell them just a textbook. But I would urge anyone looking for a definitive answer to these questions to actually contact TT ~ they are very friendly and responsive.

 

Jackie

Edited January 4, 2010 by Corraleno
correction

[April in NC]

I bought my TT5 and extra student text from Sonlight. They have the student texts for TT5 for about $40, I think. As someone else said, it appears that using the texts is somewhat optional in the lower level programs, depending on how the student prefers to learn. (Although I'm guessing that they would need scratch paper available to copy and figure out the long division/multiplication problems if they weren't going to use the textbook.) All of the lectures and problems are on the computer, and you enter the answers directly in the program for automatic scoring.

 

The information from the lesson is summarized in the textbook, so I suppose it would also be possible to use the textbook and answer key without the video - but there are parts of the lecture where the "teacher" helps the students work through the problem step-by-step, with the student getting practice and feedback as they go. I don't think that experience of participating in the lesson as it is being taught can be reproduced in the textbook, that I have seen.

 

Possibly because the automatic scoring would be more difficult to implement in upper level math, it seems that the dvds are what are optional for the upper levels. Students no longer enter their answers directly into the program for scoring. They use the DVDs to watch the pre-recorded lecture and other videos to review the solutions for problems that they missed. Most, if not all, of the information seems to also be available in the textbook, and some students get by without using the lecture dvds at all if they prefer reading to watching and listening.

[Lolly]

.

 

I have never seen the program myself, I was not aware of the size of the answer book, I thought that it was more of a teacher's manual. Yes, technically you can write in any book, but for some reason df thought this book was consumable. Since she is not a new homeschooler, nor am I, her assessment of the book was that dd could and should write in it. The challenge when you have younger children doing higher maths is that sometimes it is easier for them to write in the book.

 

 

Since TT seems to be a computer based program, it seems that it is possible that the interaction between the computer and text could be different than a traditional math book of similar level. Wouldn't it be possible that some of the work is done on the computer? Couldn't the student book have fewer problems per page to work out like MUS?

 

My point is just because you haven't seen something doesn't discount the possiblity of it existing. And for myself, having not seen the program, I now have an answer. TT is non-comsumable in the Pre-Algebra level unlike the lower levels.

 

 

TT upper levels: These really are not a computer based program. It does use the computer if you desire. (None of my cd have actually used the discs; they found they could do it much faster on their own.) There are cd's that have the lesson from the text delivered to the student. There are about 5 sample problems which are worked out during the lesson. The student can either watch the dvd for the lesson or read it from the book for themselves. Then, the student completes the lesson problems. They check the answers from the answer book. It is strictly an answer book with answers. It does not show the process to get to the answer. There is a cd that has each problem worked out step by step if the student needs additional help. There is no interaction between the student and the computer like in the lower levels. The problems in the book are not spaced in order for the student to work in the book. There simply is no space provided for that. I suppose in some lessons you could work in the book, but that really wouldn't last very long.

 

Just to find out, I have emailed the company to see if they will allow the text to be sold separately.

[M&M]

Thank you so much!!! I will pass this along and see what happens!

[M&M]

Thanks for the help, I will look into this and pass it to my df!!

[Corraleno]

The problems in the book are not spaced in order for the student to work in the book. There simply is no space provided for that. I suppose in some lessons you could work in the book, but that really wouldn't last very long.

 

Most of the problems in the Pre-Algebra book are simple arithmetic, so there is plenty of room to write the answers, and usually a fair amount of blank space at the end of the problem set if a student needs space to work. I bought used copies of both Pre-Algebra and Alg I, and the previous user wrote a lot of the answers in the book. I can see by the end of the Alg I book, though, that a student would need scratch paper to work many of the problems. I haven't seen the books for levels above Alg I.

 

Jackie