First Form vs. Latin Prep and to dvd or not to dvd...

[PeterPan]

Any feedback on the First Form dvd's? I can't get the sample at MP's site to work, which is only a function of my computer being ornery. Is it boring as toast? Unnecessary? We did PL, LC1, and part of LC2, stopping when I got pregnant. I think I'm ready to jump back in, but I've been trying to sort out how and with what. I'm pretty much down to FF or Latin Prep I think, and then the question is whether to use the dvd's if I go FF. My experience from LC1/2 showed me that I'd like all the practice in one place, something I can just open up and DO. It seems like you get that adequately in LP1, but you lose that without the workbooks for LP2. For me that's a dealbreaker I think.

 

And am I the only one with zonked out kids? I didn't think our Christmas had been so wild, but wowsers they're BOTH zonked out, tired and fussy!

[PeterPan]

Ok, just to continue this a bit, I've been thinking about it some more, and I really think the reading component may be more important than I realized. Dd is SUCH a reader, and I was just reading through Nan's comments on reading to learn a language, totally agree. I had looked at Cambridge but then saw mixed comments around here. Seems like everyone enjoys it and no one says it gets anywhere fast. Not that fast is important, but it needs to get SOMEWHERE, kwim?

 

So can anyone explain the differences between Cambridge, Lingua Latina, and Ecce Romani? I've been looking at them today, with my limited latin knowledge, and seeing a little bit. It looks like Cambridge in the early levels uses made up, fictional, highly engaging readings. Ecce Romani looked very dry, and Lingua Latina was middle of the road. I'm sure there are more differences between them, lol. But if we did Latin Prep, it includes some focus on reading to learn? I thought I saw someone saying they did Ecci with Latin Prep 1 and 2, right? And Abbey is doing Lingua Latina with LP3? I just keep collecting ideas here... Seems to me you need a balance of direct instruction and reading to engage and get the brain moving. I don't think I want solely one or the other.

 

And has anyone seen Latin for the New Millenium? A few people keep mentioning it, but no bandwagon effect.

[Laura Corin]

It looks like Cambridge in the early levels uses made up, fictional, highly engaging readings. Ecce Romani looked very dry, and Lingua Latina was middle of the road. I'm sure there are more differences between them, lol. But if we did Latin Prep, it includes some focus on reading to learn? I thought I saw someone saying they did Ecci with Latin Prep 1 and 2, right?

 

Cambridge follows a family in Pompeii, so it's fairly engaging. I am starting to use the on-line activities for fun with my two boys. Cambridge offers more vocabulary than does Latin Prep, so the activities are good for expanding that.

 

Latin Prep is very much a grammar-based programme. The grammar is not learned in isolation - it is used immediately and extensively for translation to and from English - but LP is not an immersion programme. I use immersion for modern languages, but not for Latin/Greek. YMMV.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

[samba]

Elizabeth,

We've switched this year from LFC to First Form. We were ready to head into LFC C and decided to jump ship, back up and solidify. I'm so happy we did. I ordered the DVDs and after previewing the early release version I canceled our order. I only viewed a couple of lessons but I thought they were dry and so did dd10. I also think that they are unnecessary for us...we're not new to latin. Perhaps I'd have felt differently if I needed a lot of hand holding. DD wanted to do it without the DVDs so that sealed it. She is also happy that we're doing FF now.

 

I have Lingua Latina. DD has been just reading the text and then she is supposed to tell me what she thinks is going on in the story. That's it. I have many of the support materials that I look at for my own benefit but not to use with dd at this point. She can listen to the audio/cd-rom to get more of a feel for the language. I like it because it's read in a natural way, not like a vocab or translation lesson.

 

We also have Ecce Romani on hand. Initially we're going to use this the same way we're using Lingua Latina; just for reading and getting the gist of the story. We'll do more with it later. I'm not positive but I think Ecce is what I used in school.

 

Carolyn

[forty-two]

So can anyone explain the differences between Cambridge, Lingua Latina, and Ecce Romani?

From using CLC and LL myself, the main difference I've noticed is the CLC readings function as exposure to and practice of the vocabulary and grammar (as they are meant to), but you need the explicit grammar instruction and English vocab glosses included in the text to learn the material. With LL, on the other hand, the readings actually *teach* the vocabulary and grammar (as they are meant to). It is a significantly different experience, and I think LL is the superior text here.

 

As well, CLC, at least in Unit 1, stays pretty simple - there is no great jump in difficulty anywhere in it, whereas LL gets complex fairly quickly. (I know I've read about a huge jump in difficultly with CLC, either somewhere in Unit 2, or b/w Units 2 and 3, but Unit 1 has a very slow start wrt grammar.)

 

I enjoy the stories in both texts, but I find CLC to be more fun. I'm not sure if it is the subject matter or just that it is easier than what I'm doing in LL. I use LL as my primary text - everything I've done in CLC has been review (and CLC does make for fun and effective reading practice - I feel it has helped me consolidate my Latin knowledge).

 

Overall, I think LL is the better text - in that going through LL will make you a better Latinist than going through CLC - but CLC is just fun. In planning for my dds, I keep wavering b/w just starting with LL as our primary program right off the bat (using CLC for practice) or starting CLC first, as a more gradual intro, and moving to LL later.

 

HTH

[Heather in VA]

Latin Prep is very much a grammar-based programme. The grammar is not learned in isolation - it is used immediately and extensively for translation to and from English - but LP is not an immersion programme. I use immersion for modern languages, but not for Latin/Greek. YMMV.

 

Best wishes

 

Laura

 

I would normally agree that immersion is not the best way to learn a language such as Latin or Greek but it can be a good approach to bridge between an elementary approach and a more advanced high school program.

 

Heather

[Elinor Everywhere]

 

And has anyone seen Latin for the New Millenium? A few people keep mentioning it, but no bandwagon effect.

 

Hi Elizabeth,

 

I wanted to put a plug in for Latin for the New Millenium. We switched to it in September, and both my dd and I LOVE it. The text book is engaging, with gorgeous full-color pictures. It is a mix of grammar-based and immersion reading, with historical readings thrown in to prepare a child for the National Latin Exams. I bought the teacher guide which is a bit unwieldy (the TM is on 11x14 paper and it is spiral bound) & student workbooks for extra practice.

 

We are fairly well along in Latin, having used LFC A & B, Latin Prep 1 & 2, and now LNM. The latter has the right balance of approaches for us, and after a semester of use, my dd gives it a big thumbs up.

 

Diane

[PeterPan]

Ok, just to update everyone, I went ahead and bought the Cambridge 1. I definitely think it's a good match, with the humor and story line. What I haven't decided is the spine. We have LC2 that we could go back to (bleh), and I have a copy of Wheelocks on order (for me, but maybe it would work??). So for that spine to go with CLC1, I could do:

 

-First Form--I'm concerned this spreads latin out over too many years. I think we need to pick up the pace, not slow down. And thanks for the comments on the dvds. I concluded the same thing. *I* like them, and she won't. :)

-Latin Prep-The first 1/2-3/4 would be review (just guessing from the toc), so it would be a pleasant transition.

 

I can go look at that LNM before. I looked at it, liked it, saw a couple negative comments, and gave up. On FF, it's that dragging out of the progression that is stopping me. If you finish through 4F, where does that get you?? Do you then go into Wheelocks or something, or are you done and ready to read? I could definitely see a situation where I'd get into it and a year or two later realize the pace of Henle would fit better. And in that case I might as well have started with something a bit faster-paced.

 

So that's what I'm grappling with. Anyone have a deal/cheap price on a Latin Prep they want to get rid of? :)

[amyco]

Regarding First Form series--after completing all the Forms (First thru Fourth) you will be able to start Henle 2. The Forms series is the complete Latin grammar, like Henle 1, then you go on to serious reading/translation. Memoria Press also says you can cover the ground more quickly, and do First and Second Forms in one year if necessary with older students.

 

The only problem is that right now only First Form is published, and Second Form is in beta. I imagine Third Form will be in beta next year.

 

We have really liked First Form, after having completed about half of LCII before switching. I think it's more thorough, and there are more practice exercises, and it moves faster.

[PeterPan]

Diane, I went and looked at the LNM samples some more. It's wonderful, but I really think it's too hard at this point. I guess that's not very concrete, but it is. She's 10, and I think something a fuzz easier would be good. They really throw you into it. But I can SEE why you love it! Now can I ask why you left Latin Prep? Was it that the approach had gotten a bit young/light/unsatisfying? See that's what I've finally figured out, that almost all these are great when you match them to the right age/mind/thought process. And I can totally see where something that is the right thought process now (take First Form) might be a poor fit 4 years from now, basically outgrown. It just depends on the kid as to when that would occur. And I can totally see how Latin Prep would be the same way. So did you find defects in your experience with Latin Prep, or did she outgrow it? Is that splitting hairs? :) I'm trying to figure out if there are hidden flaws to Latin Prep that should dissuade me from pursuing that direction now, since LNM is too much. Any thoughts?

[christine in al]

:lurk5:

Christine in al

[PeterPan]

Well, I ordered Latin Prep. I could live to regret it, might not like it, but at least it's a place to start. Or rather, a place to resume. I think it will be fine though. It looks fun, and some of it will be review, always a good thing.

[christine in al]

I'm jsut trying to learn if LfC is a helpful bridge between SSL, Minimus and LP.

I've got someone who's too young for LP but I dont want to stop Latin completely, yet, I don't want LfC's way of teaching to contradict LP's . I dont think it will, but I'd like to not make a mistake I can avoid.

 

~c.

[PeterPan]

Christine, you should fill in your sig... How old is your dc? If they're bright, I wouldn't hesitate to begin sooner. I think, only from looking at it and my small experience using other stuff, my dd would have done well with Latin Prep in 4th or starting FirstForm in 3rd. I don't know about sooner, I'm just too far removed from that age to guess. We did LC1 in 2nd, LC2 (only part) in 3rd, stopping when I got prego. The chants and memory work of LC were highly effective, surprisingly fun (if you make them fun, play the games), and should provide a good springboard for Latin Prep, which is of course more analytical and involves more translation. As you say, I think if you go into too much translation too young a dc may find it frustrating. They have a real transition around 4th/5th gr where they start to want more mysteries. The translation feeds into that, I think. So I wouldn't hesitate to put a bright dc into First Form or some other class focusing mainly on memory work in 1st or 2nd. My dd hates workbooks and isn't into themes, so I don't think LfC ever would have suited her. But kids are just all different.

[Elinor Everywhere]

I wouldn't say she outgrew LP, but maybe more that it zoomed along without giving her any satisfaction. My daughter is a reader; she's a sink-your-teeth-into it type (well, NOT if it's too hard; she's also an under-achiever); she has no use for redundancy (LP was great for that....maybe too great).

 

She thoroughly likes the variety of exercises of LNM. Some reading with comprehension questions, some historical selections (in English), some grammar, some translating, etc. After 3-4 years of Latin, she is really enjoying the mixed approach.

 

LNM is a high school course, but we are taking it as slowly as needed. Of course, the beginning was mostly review for us, so we zipped through it, but since every course seems to study different vocabulary, we're learning new words and memorizing new sayings, and after a few chapters we are ready to slow down and absorb new things.

 

FWIW, I plan on doing LP 3 after LNM 1 but before beginning LNM 2 (or maybe halfway through LNM 2....not sure yet). I like both courses, and feel they both have a lot to offer. Besides, it helps keep the boredom down if we mix it up every other year or two!

[PeterPan]

That makes sense! Thanks! :)