preparing high schooler for "real" world

[choirfarm]

This is a spin-off from the sheltering thread on the general board. I agree about "sheltering" your children when they are young. But I have been thinking a lot lately about preparing my son, in 9th grade, for the time when he leaves the nest. I'm sure he will go off to a university. At that point, he can be on the computer whenever he chooses, watch whatever he chooses, do whatever he chooses. So how do you go from locking the computer when we aren't home, his only outside activity is church and bible study, etc. He's had some issues with the computer and he is SO smart, he can get around defenses. I asked him the other day if he wanted any freedoms or to relax the rules, and he said no. The reasons he gave a couple of years ago were bogus. He really wanted to explore the internet for various things. He said keep it the way it is. I know that 14 almost 15 is young, but when he goes to college we won't have the key to his computer. And I see so many kids with iphones where they have 24/7 access to internet. How do they not get into trouble???? He is a homebody and has no friends other than his younger brother's friends. He gets along with everyone, but no one homeschools at our church and the homeschool group is in the next town. He didn't really click with anyone although he got along well with everyone. He goes to church on Sundays and to the high school Bible study on Monday night. That's it. He loves sports, but is small and not athletic. I'm just not sure how to prepare him for the real world. I had sure seen and experienced a bunch more before I went to college...

 

Christine

[Ester Maria]

Yes, those kind of things tend to happen when child-parent relationship is based on control rather than on trust. Sorry for putting it so bluntly, but it's most likely the case.

 

I honestly have no idea why would you a priori not trust your child, but it's quite sad that you don't. I have a different attitude: I trust them, until they give me a reason to change my opinion. My initial position is the one of trust, not the one of distrust. We can talk about monitoring the information they get and such stuff only after specific acts which caused distrust in the first place (so far it never happened), not before that.

 

Why don't you just trust your son that, being a good kid, he will know how to handle it? What exactly are you afraid of? Him getting across explicit material, talking to strangers, maybe if you expressed your specific fears it'd be easier to give specific advice to "prepare"?

[jibaker103]

At some point you have to go on faith that you have instilled ethics, values, honesty, etc. into your child so he can have experiences and learn from them as well as have consequences if he breaks your trust.

 

My son knows he is not to watch rated R movies and he knows why. When he spends the night at friends those kids get to watch whatever they want. Typically my son will convince them to watch something else or go in another room. Well Noah caved into peer pressure once and had nightmares for a month. That natural consequence was a lot more effective than anything else I could have done!!

 

Now that he is older he comes to me and tells me about a R movie he is dying to see. He presents his reasons, we talk about it, and if it has validity I will preview it first or we watch it together. So far it has only happened with 1 movie. The point is that I just didn't lay down a law because I'm the parent and I said no. He is at an age where he needs to learn decision making skills that directly effect his life. As long as he is learning to speak clearly and concisely, debate, negotiate, accept criticism, etc. and not argue I feel I'm doing my part in helping him learn how to move about in the real world.

[choirfarm]

Yes, those kind of things tend to happen when child-parent relationship is based on control rather than on trust. Sorry for putting it so bluntly, but it's most likely the case.

 

I honestly have no idea why would you a priori not trust your child, but it's quite sad that you don't. I have a different attitude: I trust them, until they give me a reason to change my opinion. My initial position is the one of trust, not the one of distrust. We can talk about monitoring the information they get and such stuff only after specific acts which caused distrust in the first place (so far it never happened), not before that.

 

Why don't you just trust your son that, being a good kid, he will know how to handle it? What exactly are you afraid of? Him getting across explicit material, talking to strangers, maybe if you expressed your specific fears it'd be easier to give specific advice to "prepare"?

 

For the computer, we only locked it after 3 acts of violating trust happened. It is in the family room and I thought he was so trustworthy only to find he was deleting history, turning off parental controls etc. After the 3rd time... But it has been over a year since the last incident.

 

Other than that he is a VERY good kid. He completes assignments VERY well. He is so sweet and does things without being asked, but he doesn't like doing things outside of his comfort zone socially. He did organized sports for several years and it was fine until 10 or so when they all got so competitive and he sat on the bench, sidelines etc depending on the sport and didn't get to play because he wasn't as good so he didn't want to play anymore.

 

He likes computers and may want to do that as a career. When we did the career class last year, it said statistician, astrophysist or computer programmer/analyst.

 

I guess I just want him to spread his wings some, but he is perfectly happy to stay at home. That just doesn't seem normal for a 14yo. I wish he had friends. We live out in the country. I want him to go with friends to a movie. I would love for him to do one of the Duke 3 week camps, but he isn't interested. I don't think he has to be a social butterfly like my youngest, but I wish he had someone other than us!!!

 

Christine

[choirfarm]

Now that he is older he comes to me and tells me about a R movie he is dying to see. He presents his reasons, we talk about it, and if it has validity I will preview it first or we watch it together. So far it has only happened with 1 movie. The point is that I just didn't lay down a law because I'm the parent and I said no. He is at an age where he needs to learn decision making skills that directly effect his life. As long as he is learning to speak clearly and concisely, debate, negotiate, accept criticism, etc. and not argue I feel I'm doing my part in helping him learn how to move about in the real world.

 

 

That is just it... I didn't lay down the law. I haven't. However, don't watch R movies as a family. Even dh and I haven't seen one in a really, really, long time. I would certainly listen if he wanted to see one, but he hasn't. I don't lecture them on the evils of movies. In fact, I told them next year I would probably let them watch Schindler's List when we studied WWII>

 

I pretty much only listen to Christian music and radio. He was in a car with an adult when they went to 6 flags and she had an ipod with secular music. A girl his age told her...B--- isn't allowed to listen to that. I never really heard what Brian said but both boys were telling me about it in the car later. The mom came up and apologized. She said it didn't have anything like language or anything. I laughed and told her... that isn't true. He can listen to any music he wishes. I just happen to love contemporary music and sing in our praise band. I've never, ever said you can't listen to this ever. My boys just thought it was funny. I told them that other music isn't necessarily bad. I just prefer to listen to music that has uplifting music with good lyrics. Now that he is buying his own music he buys Toby Mac and Third Day and such.

 

But see that is an example of how "sheltered" he is. He voluntarily changes the channel when a yucky ad comes on during football. I never told him to do that...

 

I would like him to have that kind of experience your son had with making a wrong choice, but I'm not sure how when he is home all the time and has no interest in going anywhere.

 

That said, we went as a family to Honduras on a mission trip. He went with dh and I on a Buckner trip to Ethiopia. Now there he saw cond-m trucks ( widly decorated to prevent aids) he heard everyone discussing female castr--tion after our survey as the elders talked about although the government outlawed it, it still goes on. Interesting discussions. Lots of interesting discussions. He was only 12 and their were a couple of 17 and 18 years old and the rest adults. He spent the whole time with the college interns and loved them. That did give me hope. The youth and interns teased him good naturedly about how quiet he was and just about fainted when he finally started to join the conversation. As one of the youth leaders told me from our church, it isn't that he is shy it is that he scopes out the situation and wants to completely understand it before jumping in.

Edited November 15, 2009 by choirfarm

[Jane in NC]

I agree with the other posters who have commented on trust. I believe that we have instilled good values in my son. Further, we keep the lines of communication open so that when he has not been clear on other people's choices, he can talk to us. Additionally, I have made sure that there were other adults in my son's life. If there is something that he cannot talk to my husband or me about, he has his "adopted" grandparents who would drop anything to listen to him.

 

My son only used the family computer in a room with traffic when he was younger. Later, he rebuilt a discarded computer from a neighbor and used it only for word processing and games in his room--no Internet. At 16, we gave him Internet privileges in his room since he does so much of his schoolwork there. Further, there has never been any abuse of privilege.

 

I also have allowed my son to test his wings through his participation in 4-H. He regularly goes off on overnights where the kids sleep at camp facilities or in hotels. The organization provides curfews and monitoring. Sure, someone could break the rules, but they won't be invited back. These activities are so much fun that not only is everyone exhausted at midnight (or whatever the curfew is) but everyone wants to return.

 

I would encourage you to find opportunities for your son to test his wings in controlled situations away from his parents. You said that he is not interested in one of the three week Duke camps. Perhaps he could attend one of the Duke Scholars Weekends that TIP sponsors to try the concept on for size. My son did three of these and would have loved to have gone to the longer camp but other summer activities got in the way.

 

If your church does not sponsor ski trips or retreats for teens, perhaps there is another church in the community that will include him. Participation in youth group does not imply an endorsement of doctrine.

 

Best of luck to him.

 

Jane

[Greta Lea]

Honestly, it sounds like you've just raised a great kid by being a wonderful example. Wonderful parenting.

 

You have values that *you* stick to and and he has noticed this. He now has his values, based on values he learned from watching you.

 

I think you've done a great job and shouldn't be worried about this.

[creekland]

This is a difficult thing. With regards to the computer... I'm afraid the majority of boys - and probably girls - have or do use it for explicit material. I work at our public school and hear about it all the time as they talk among each other sharing sites, etc. Occasionally the issue of parents comes up and they freely share how to hide the evidence from their parents.

 

I would like to say this doesn't happen within the church, but my own youngest boy (13) is evidence that this isn't true. It crosses all socioeconomic classes. Many of the parents of students I overhear would be shocked to know their boys are involved. Some have told me their boys would never do such a thing... and I'm not strong enough to confront them, but I know differently.

 

That said, I'm sure not ALL kids do it, but those that don't are rare. When we caught my 13 year old (3rd time) several parents also confided to me their thoughts when they caught their younguns... it's really common in families. Sad, but true.

 

So... you're not alone!

 

For us, we went to www.xxxchurch.com and downloaded x3 upon the recommendation of a local pastor who deals with the issue often. This is a program that monitors websites the computer visits and sends e-mails to the address of your choice when anything questionable comes up. It also sends an e-mail if it gets disabled. It doesn't stop anyone from visiting any site - it merely notifies. The knowledge that it is on there - though somewhat big brotherish - is enough to keep my kids honest and we're happy with it. We also like being able to let them use the computer without worry.

 

As for getting them out into the 'world' more... we do this via church groups and our public school chess team. We also watch whatever movie we choose as a family and discuss it afterward (fun, not schoolish type of discussion). We try to help them see and understand the reasoning behind a lot of differently held positions (religious, political, etc) so they aren't surprised by it - nor condemning of those that might hold such views. I'm big on tolerance. We know what we believe (have studied reasons), but we are not told to force others to share our beliefs (though we can share them and 'why' when appropriate). We are to live at peace with everyone as much as it depends on us. This means not having a condemning attitude.

 

My oldest goes to college next year. We watched Indoctrinate U on the Documentary Channel - very interesting - and he immediately brought up some 'happenings' in his community college English class that related. Purely understanding what goes on makes a big difference.

 

I'm not sure what my boys will do when they, themselves, get into the 'real' world. Only they can make those decisions. All we are charged with is laying a good foundation. That's what we're trying our best to do. We live our life knowing why we make our choices. They will later decide their life and its standards.

[Jane in NC]

 

I'm not sure what my boys will do when they, themselves, get into the 'real' world. Only they can make those decisions. All we are charged with is laying a good foundation. That's what we're trying our best to do. We live our life knowing why we make our choices. They will later decide their life and its standards.

 

There you have it! Of course we as parents will worry, but the foundation that we have laid is key. And may I add that we also need to be there for our kids after they are "launched" but not fully independent. We may not approve of every decision that they make, but our kids need to live their lives.

 

Wishing you peace,

Jane

[jibaker103]

But see that is an example of how "sheltered" he is. He voluntarily changes the channel when a yucky ad comes on during football. I never told him to do that...

 

I would like him to have that kind of experience your son had with making a wrong choice, but I'm not sure how when he is home all the time and has no interest in going anywhere.

 

My son is the same way and I think it has a lot to do with puberty and hormones. My son use to be a social butterfly who never met a stranger and was a leader among his friends. 7th grade he started holding back and analyzing more, dropped a lot of acquaintenances and just had a few core friends. When I started homeschooling half way through 7th he decided he didn't want to be a part of any groups, didn't want to make new friends. He just wanted to hang at home. He also doesn't like to watch yucky things either (people kissing or half naked) and constantly asks me why tv find it necessary to go there!!!

 

The best thing I could ever do was to start a dialogue about why he thought these images and conversations were "yucky" and "gross." I let him know from the start he could ask me any and everything and I would answer to the best of my knowledge honestly. We've had some crazy conversations since then and it has been wonderful because he can be as silly or serious as he wants to be so that he is comgfortable getting the information he needs.

 

I also decided that after so much time of isolating himself that he needed to try at least 1 new thing every few months to decide what he would like to continue for a social outlet. So far the bookclub and teen advisory board at the local library has been good for him. He grumbled and complained the first couple of months but now he is very active and actually thanked me for making him go!!! He also started attending a Monday co-op that he absolutely loathed at first. I told him he had to stick it out the semester and then he did not have to go back. Well just last week he started asking me what classes he was going to get to do next semester. I almost fell out the chair!!!

 

Just hang in there and keep presenting him with opportunities that he must give an ample amount of time to before deciding he hates. Something should stick eventually.

 

Also I here you on the computer issues as I had problems with Noah too. The best thing is never allow a computer or tv in a child's bedroom. No matter how nice, sweet, and honest temptation is a powerful urge to overcome and it also directly effects the ability to sleep at night and most teenagers already have issues with sleep anyway.

[Rosie_0801]

But see that is an example of how "sheltered" he is. He voluntarily changes the channel when a yucky ad comes on during football. I never told him to do that...

 

I would like him to have that kind of experience your son had with making a wrong choice, but I'm not sure how when he is home all the time and has no interest in going anywhere.

 

 

As a teen I was punished for having turned out the way I was brought up. You sound like you are thinking the same way my parents did. Don't do that to him!

 

FYI, I was perfectly fine when I went to uni and your son will be too. :001_smile:

 

Rosie

[Laurie4b]

This is a spin-off from the sheltering thread on the general board. I agree about "sheltering" your children when they are young. But I have been thinking a lot lately about preparing my son, in 9th grade, for the time when he leaves the nest. I'm sure he will go off to a university. At that point, he can be on the computer whenever he chooses, watch whatever he chooses, do whatever he chooses. So how do you go from locking the computer when we aren't home, his only outside activity is church and bible study, etc. He's had some issues with the computer and he is SO smart, he can get around defenses. I asked him the other day if he wanted any freedoms or to relax the rules, and he said no. The reasons he gave a couple of years ago were bogus. He really wanted to explore the internet for various things. He said keep it the way it is. I know that 14 almost 15 is young, but when he goes to college we won't have the key to his computer. And I see so many kids with iphones where they have 24/7 access to internet. How do they not get into trouble???? He is a homebody and has no friends other than his younger brother's friends. He gets along with everyone, but no one homeschools at our church and the homeschool group is in the next town. He didn't really click with anyone although he got along well with everyone. He goes to church on Sundays and to the high school Bible study on Monday night. That's it. He loves sports, but is small and not athletic. I'm just not sure how to prepare him for the real world. I had sure seen and experienced a bunch more before I went to college...

 

Christine

 

I think it's great that you're thinking about this! Even if it's his personality to just kind of follow your example, I agree with you that he needs to test and strengthen this, gradually, while he's still under your roof so that when he makes mistakes, you'll be there to help advise him .

 

We have some kind of filter on our computer, but it's not locked when we're not home and I'm gone quite a bit when the kids are home alone. I think the internet access to porn is an issue for many adults as well as kids, and from a Christian point of view, I think an accountability partner or group is a great idea to move toward as an adult. He will have to seek that out for himself in college and beyond. I would also have his dad dialog a lot with him about the temptations and how easy it is to get sucked into them. You don't have to go looking. Spam emails can come to you. Let him know to come to you or his dad or his youth pastor if he every strays, and then guide him rather than clamp down right away. Work it out with him. We have to develop our capacity to resist temptation.

 

Getting an outside job is a good way to prepare him for the real world. He will likely meet other teens as well as adults with different values working at a restaurant, grocery store, farm, etc. (depending on your area.) As a teen, I worked as a bus girl, then a waitress, at a local country club and among my co-workers, saw adult alcoholism, dirty jokes, stealing from the establishment, etc, etc. I was a Christian, but my parents were not. I had to work that stuff out for myself. I made some mistakes but negotiated most of it just fine.

 

I think what you're doing with allowing him to choose his own music, etc. is helpful.

 

I would make it a priority to get him to try out different social situations. If he's small, but enjoys sports, more individual sports like tennis or martial arts can be good choices. If your family is political, encourage him to work for campaigns. See if there are things at private schools in your area that he could join: teams, clubs, etc. Some private schools are small and allow other kids to join in so that they have enough for a team, etc.

[Nan in Mass]

Is he saying to keep the computer locked in a "Fine. If you have things you don't want me looking at even though I think they are fine for me, then you lock it." sort of way? Or is he genuinely asking you to help him bolster his probably still fragile self-discipline? If it is the second, then I don't think you have to worry about what he will do when he gets to college. He has found a way of solving the problem for himself at home, and he will probably be able to find a way elsewhere. That is pretty adult. It would be much less adult and much more worrisome if he weren't admitting he was battling temptation and occasionally losing. He's behaving like any senisble adult. Part of being adult is finding ways of removing the irresistible temptations from their lives. Meanwhile, you can talk about resisting temptation, how everyone has to find the strength to do it, addictions, people who are more susceptible to addictions, how to structure one's life so as to give oneself a fighting chance, how to forgive oneself and keep trying, etc., all in a different context, of course, so as to save face.

 

We try to make our home a safe haven from the troubles of the world. We try to provide a shelter for everyone, both grownup and child. I don't think that sheltering within the home is a problem. I think you do have to be careful not to shelter to much outside the home. It doesn't sound like you are doing that. If you have provided a nice home, one that is nicer than the rest of the world, can you wonder that he isn't particularly interested in leaving it? That is a good thing, not a bad thing.

 

I would, however, try to help him to make friends or find interests outside your home. Teenagers need a safe haven at home, but they also need to widen their world. If you widen carefully, it can make them stronger. What are his interests? Perhaps, if he is finding his age-mates behaving rather stupidly at the moment (unsurprisingly), he would rather do something with other adults? He may just not have anything in common with the other kids he meets, or at least not enough to make him want to spend time with them. Does he want to help the world somehow? Volunteer at an animal shelter or or hospital or food pantry? Or teach children? Or work and save money for something? Or learn something? What about fencing? Or horseback riding? Or parcour? Or yoga? Those are more individual. Would he like to travel? Finding the time and money for these things is always a problem, but many things don't cost much. I think the suggestion to make him commit to something for a certain period of time is a good one. You could just explain that now that he is older, you and his father would like him to broaden his horizons a bit because homeschooling can be isolating and it is hard to grow up in isolation.

 

Just my two cents worth. Every family is different. Fourteen/Fifteen is still young. It also is a funny in-between age. Some children are grownup at that age, and others are still about ten. Sixteen/seventeen is older and more children are growing up then. You will probably see him become more interested in the outside world in the next year or two. I wouldn't worry too much yet.

 

-Nan

[stripe]

Maybe you need to encourage him to deal with /think about how your religious beliefs handle various real world issues. For example (just throwing out a few randomly) hunger, violence, sexuality and marriage, care of children, outreach to those in need, and so on. I think one problem is feeling that one's faith is irrelevant to the real world -- i.e. it's for some perfect scenario but here where there are real problems, we have to do things a different way. It would help to guide him to formulate a way to deal with problems through the prism of his own conscience, so that as continued challenges arise in his life, he will continue to be able to do so. I think to not say anything until he gets into trouble is not really fair to him -- you shouldn't scold him or punish him, or suggest that you don't trust him, but you should promote openness and deep conversation about how to meet those challenges. It's not fair to throw him into the world unequipped to deal with various problems, so you're showing your care for him by wondering about this.

[Susie-Knits]

Basically my goal is to raise "thinking" kids. When they were little, I expected them to obey because I am the authority. But as they have gotten older, I expect them to know why or why not and even more importantly, how to decide for themselves. Perhaps starting with choice of music. Is xyz an acceptable choice in my music? Look at the lyrics on-line, is that what you want to listen to? Eventually, the decision making will include music, movies, books, on-line possiblities, ..... a world full of decisions. It needs to go beyond "just because my parents said so" at the emerging adult stage. Consider it real life critical thinking skills. I personally have spoken to too many hs kids who just regurgitate their parents' opinions without knowing why or owning this opinion themselves.

 

Yes, it can be "dangerous" to allow your near adult kids to have their own opinions! haha But teach them how to think it thru, judge for themselves, and make choices while you can walk them thru it, and they will be

(more) ready for the world. IMHO.

[choirfarm]

Basically my goal is to raise "thinking" kids. When they were little, I expected them to obey because I am the authority. But as they have gotten older, I expect them to know why or why not and even more importantly, how to decide for themselves. Perhaps starting with choice of music. Is xyz an acceptable choice in my music? Look at the lyrics on-line, is that what you want to listen to? .

 

 

But see this is part of what I am confused about. This is exactly what I want..it is how I was raised. But I am a lot more conservative than my mother. I always have been. So yes, if he chose to listen to secular music we would look it up on the internet, but he doesn't and I'm not sure why he would at this stage. He isn't exposed to it anywhere. I've talked to them about movies and why I like some and don't like some and that not all rated R movies are bad, but most probably are and you have to be discerning. I will show them Shindler's list next year, but will probably edit out the bed scenes and the scendes where the bad commander's mistress is sitting topless (why those were even needed I don't know... the violence and other nudity like the naked Jewish women I'll leave in..) I don't command and rail about how things are evil or anything like that. But it just isn't in our home, so he doesn't get exposed to it. We don't have cable, etc.

 

Christine

[choirfarm]

 

 

I also decided that after so much time of isolating himself that he needed to try at least 1 new thing every few months to decide what he would like to continue for a social outlet. So far the bookclub and teen advisory board at the local library has been good for him. He grumbled and complained the first couple of months but now he is very active and actually thanked me for making him go!!! He also started attending a Monday co-op that he absolutely loathed at first. I told him he had to stick it out the semester and then he did not have to go back. Well just last week he started asking me what classes he was going to get to do next semester. I almost fell out the chair!!!

 

Just hang in there and keep presenting him with opportunities that he must give an ample amount of time to before deciding he hates. Something should stick eventually.

 

Also I here you on the computer issues as I had problems with Noah too. The best thing is never allow a computer or tv in a child's bedroom. No matter how nice, sweet, and honest temptation is a powerful urge to overcome and it also directly effects the ability to sleep at night and most teenagers already have issues with sleep anyway.

 

 

Thanks. I will continue to gently try to get him out of the house. The computer has NEVER ever been in the rooms. It is in the family room.

 

Christine

[choirfarm]

Is he saying to keep the computer locked in a "Fine. If you have things you don't want me looking at even though I think they are fine for me, then you lock it." sort of way? Or is he genuinely asking you to help him bolster his probably still fragile self-discipline?

 

No, when I asked him about the restrictions, he told me that all the reasons he gave a few years ago were bogus, they were an excuse so he could get to those questionable sites. So to just leave it the way it was. In the last year, he has definitely gained maturity.

 

I would, however, try to help him to make friends or find interests outside your home. Teenagers need a safe haven at home, but they also need to widen their world. If you widen carefully, it can make them stronger. What are his interests? Perhaps, if he is finding his age-mates behaving rather stupidly at the moment (unsurprisingly), he would rather do something with other adults? Yes, I think so. He goes to youth Bible study but there whole culture is foreign..cell phones and tons of activity.

 

Just my two cents worth. Every family is different. Fourteen/Fifteen is still young. It also is a funny in-between age. Some children are grownup at that age, and others are still about ten. Sixteen/seventeen is older and more children are growing up then. You will probably see him become more interested in the outside world in the next year or two. I wouldn't worry too much yet

-Nan

 

 

Thanks Nan.

[Nan in Mass]

Maybe if you divide the two things and think about them separately?

 

One half is a passing-on-my-beliefs-to-my-children problem. Perhaps you should think about what made you become more conservative than your mother, whether you want your son to follow your beliefs no matter what, or whether you want your son to choose his own beliefs, or whether you want your son to choose your beliefs for himself. If it is the first, then you need to be authoritarian, eliminate as many opportunities for not following your beliefs as possible, and make it pleasanter and easier for him to follow them than not so he chooses to follow them because because of the consequences. (This is what most of us do while our children are growing up.) If it is the second, you just have to make sure your child grows up into a thoughtful, educated person. If it is the last, then you have more of a problem. You have to do the first while you are doing the second, and on top you have to spend lots of time convincing the child that other beliefs are wrong (at least for him) and your beliefs are right. Much more difficult. You probably are going to have to keep doing the first longer than you would if you were aiming for just the second. And you will have to hope that the child doesn't reach 18 before you have reached your goals. I know I've just stated the obvious here, but sometimes stating the obvious helps clarify things. I'm guessing, but it sounds like your mother was probably just trying to achieve number two. And it sounds like she successfully reached her goal before you were beyond her control. And it sounds like you want to achieve number three, which may take longer. It may be unrealistic to compare yourself to your son at the same age because "successfully think and act for oneself" is defined differently in the two cases. I think what might really be worrying you is that often, a person finds out that a belief is right for him by trying the opposite and discovering that it doesn't work or feels uncomfortable or downright horrible. We all hope our children will take our word for things and not try them for themselves, but sometimes that doesn't work. Most of us adopt many beliefs of our parents by just taking their word. I took my parents' word about not killing people. I also happen to have taken my parents' word about not drinking. Most of my friends took their parents' word about the first but not the second. (This is where reading lots helps. GRIN You get to try lots of things without actually trying them. So I guess you could say I did actually try the opposite, just not in real life.) I think you have to figure out which things your son is thoughtfully taking your (or books' or whatevers') word for, and which he is blindly following. Perhaps you could talk to him and ask him? Or look at his experiences? Maybe his travels taught him more than you realize and he's already had ample examples of the opposite not working. Or maybe he was traumatized enough by the examples that he just wants to stay home where everything is pleasant and easy until he grows up a bit more. More probably it was a combination of both. Which leads me to the second half of the problem.

 

I think the second half involves the word "real". I have three children. I raised all three in a very sheltered home, sheltered from the human world but not the realities of nature. The first met the world by going to school. The world he met was a suburban world, for the most part. He had a friend who was a foster child in an unhappy situation, and one whose parents cared so little about her that she never had a birthday present until her friends gave her a party when she was 18, and one who often spent the night on someone else's sofa because his parents had been drinking. But everyone was fed and clothed and in school, learned to drive and had a tv, and eventually a job and a car. Some went to college. His "real" world wasn't always comfortable, but it was fairly safe. My other two were homeschooled. They met human realities a different way, peacewalking with people who were trying to save the world. Their "real" was much more a matter of life and death on a grander scale. They met individuals who had individual misfortunes, but as well, they met people who grew up in towns where all the children had been taken away to school and forbidden to speak their native language, ones who grew up in an area where there was no dental care, ones from towns where the water was radioactive, ones whose town had been wiped out by an atomic bomb, ones who had fought in a war and were trying to stop future wars. They have a grounding that my first son didn't have. They can put cell phones and lap tops and video games and girl friends in perspective. It doesn't mean that they don't deal with the realities of these things, the immediate temptations, etc. They do. And they make mistakes and all that. But they have a much better idea of how real or not real those things really are, and they have much less patience with the more insular, trivial concerns of their age-mates. Perhaps your son has experienced the same sort of real-ness as my younger two. And perhaps that makes him more adult and uninterested in the comparitively trivial problems of his agemates. Perhaps, as a consequence, learning to deal with a cell-phone and a laptop, and the social complexities of college won't be as big a problem as you fear, because your son will be able to keep those things in perspective. Or on the contrary, is it that your son hasn't spent enough time with his age-mates and the complexities of modern suburban US to become used to those things and finds them perplexing and confusing and overwhelming, as so, would rather avoid them. Which sort of reality is he dealing with at this time? Obviously, it is a mix of some sort, but it is probably the majority one or the other. And which is it that you yourself are worried about?

 

I can tell you what we have done, but I'm not sure how helpful it will be. I want to emphasize that my children are far, far from perfect. They have some advantages over some of their more ignorant classmates, but they are still, all, pretty normal children/young adults. With the oldest, working in Boston as a plumber "fixed" some of his insularness. He worked with people who had fled wars in their home countries, or desperate poverty and drugs in their Boston neighborhoods. We encouraged/forced the younger two to do scouts for a number of years so they would know and learn to at least be on friendly distant terms with the children in our town. We gave them laptops (and fought/fight battles over computer games and youtube videos) when they were 14. We chose not to give them cellphones until they were 18 because we wanted them to learn to live without that tether/safety line. We have carefully nurtured a few close friendships based on common interests or hobbies. We have devoted massive amounts of resources and time to a sport (gymnastics) because that gave them more adult mentors and self-discipline and self-confidence (nothing like having to perform in a pair of tights in front of bleachers full of people) and built strong bodies for them to live in the rest of their lives. It keeps them busy, too, something not to be underestimated in our tempting world.

 

It is a matter of finding the right balance, unfortunately. Too far one way doesn't work and too far the other doesn't work, either. That is why it is hard for other people to help you decide what is right for your own family. I can say, though, that whenever I have started to worry, it meant that we were better off making some changes. The level of worry tells me whether the change needs to be made immediately, or whether it is something that I see we need to do in the next year or two. Are you very worried about this? Or mildly worried?

 

I hope something in all this meandering is helpful or comforting. I feel like I've just either stated the obvious or just done something unhelpful like tell you about my own family. I've been worrying over the same set of things this fall, though, so maybe a question or two was helpful.

 

-Nan

[stripe]

I really wish I could meet you, Nan!

 

I really appreciate the examples you've given of providing an opportunity for your children to serve others and understand the world, without being heavy-handed and "directing them" as such.

[Nan in Mass]

I wish I could meet you, too. I watch for your posts because I learn from them.

My way of raising children is a combination of trying to do what my parents did so successfully and desperate corrective mesures in the places where I failed. It sounds all nice and organized when I write about it in retrospect, but in reality, it was messy, very messy with many backtracks and dead ends and failures and retries. Still is messy. We're not done yet. My way is scary, very, very scary. I almost lost all three of my children and two of their friends when they were coming back from a concert last night and the car in front of them hit a deer. I didn't sleep last night worrying about my youngest because he is 15 now and we are beginning cautiously to let him taste his brothers' more adult local world. His brothers wanted to take him with them to the concert because they knew he would enjoy the music, but his brothers' supervision was probably very loose. I worried less when he was in Europe last year. It will all work out well, probably, if they don't die... Sigh... I want them to be like my husband and my father. They are so level-headed, so strong, so good. They had some hair-raising adventures, though, as children and teenagers. I just hope nobody dies or gets permanently scarred. And I hope they continue to contribute to the world.

-Nan

[Susie-Knits]

But see this is part of what I am confused about. This is exactly what I want..it is how I was raised. But I am a lot more conservative than my mother. I always have been. So yes, if he chose to listen to secular music we would look it up on the internet, but he doesn't and I'm not sure why he would at this stage. He isn't exposed to it anywhere. I've talked to them about movies and why I like some and don't like some and that not all rated R movies are bad, but most probably are and you have to be discerning. I will show them Shindler's list next year, but will probably edit out the bed scenes and the scendes where the bad commander's mistress is sitting topless (why those were even needed I don't know... the violence and other nudity like the naked Jewish women I'll leave in..) I don't command and rail about how things are evil or anything like that. But it just isn't in our home, so he doesn't get exposed to it. We don't have cable, etc.

 

Christine

 

Your child's circle will at some point grow bigger than your home, your selections, and such. He is young as you stated "at this stage" not interested in things outside the home. From your response above, it sounds like you are talking with him about why you select or do not select certain things.

 

Not sure what you consider "secular" music - is that classical, bluegrass, jazz, or broadway musicals? haha Any music can be evaluated - modern Christian praise music or even old hymns - does it line up with my beliefs/theology? Doesn't quite, do I still choose to listen to it? Why? (What Christian music is or is not, is a whole other thread, in my book. But definitely not picking a fight about it here.)

 

Does he read books? Does he play games - board or computer or gaming system? Does he spend his own money? Does he pick his own clothes? Does he decide how to wear his hair? Does he ... there are so many things - major and minor- that we decide every day. Perhaps it will involve you becoming more transparent with him on how you are making your decisions about what to watch, eat, do....live.

 

Eventually, the selections available will leave the boundries of your home. What do you want him to measure the world with? Give him those tools.

 

Nan in Mass is so eloquant and thoughtful in her response - who could respond any better?!

[Nan in Mass]

You know, when I was in youth group, I just didn't have much in common with most of the teens. Certainly, I didn't have enough in common to want to be real friends. I did things with them at youth group, but liked my family better. Then one boy noticed that both our families sailed and pointed that out to me... and I married him LOL. Ok. There was a lot in between. But my point is that when someone showed up who was interesting, I was willing to be friends. Until that time, everyone else seemed at worst dangerously stupid and self-absorbed or at best uninteresting. I was friendly with everyone and they were friendly back. We just didn't have much use for each other. Perhaps his lack of interest in the other teens is just that.

-Nan