For those using History Odyssey Level 2, specifically Middle Ages...

[TeaTotaler]

could you tell me how much writing your dc are doing. Are they completing all the writing assignments?

 

For example: Lesson 13 states - write a short summary on St. Augustine, Duke William, Alfred the Great, King Canute, and King Arthur ....how long are these summaries supposed to be? Seems like a lot of writing when that lesson already includes writing an outline for the relevant KHE pages.

 

I am trying to figure out what is realistic for us to do given that we are working through CW Homer and Math seems to be taking longer this year.

 

Also, how many lessons do you cover each week?

 

Any other ideas or tips for using HO. This is our first year using HO and second rotation of history.

 

Thanks in advance

[dangermom]

I'd say a paragraph for each. Since we are planning the same path, I'm interested in how it goes!

[abbeyej]

When there's a list of names like that, I require a *brief* paragraph on each one, just 1-3 sentences each. As you say, lists like that appear on days when the child is already expected to read (often from 2-3 sources) and write an outline or a summary (ours range from 1-3 pages, usually about two). And since one needs to complete about 3 lessons per week in order to finish in one school year, I just can't see requiring more than that. I've also found that sometimes those 1-3 sentence definitions are of personages who resurface later in more depth. So if William the Conqueror shows up as a definition today, the child may be required to write a more complete biography in another couple of weeks.

 

We did not do HO2-Ancients, so there has definitely been a learning curve for ds to figure out what's expected of him. We're spending a lot of time working on spotting the most important information and paring it down to write 1-2 sentences about a person, or reducing several pages of text to 1-2 pages of handwritten summary... But also feel like ds has learned a great deal -- both about history and about study skills...

[Capt_Uhura]

Anyone used HO Ancients level 2 and can share how it went for you and how you implemented it?

 

Thanks,

Capt_Uhura

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks Abbey, that was helpful. It is always helpful to hear from others using the same curriculum. I think what has made it more challenging is not having a consistent amount of required writing in HO. Some lessons ask for a ton more than others and if that week coincides with an already busy week....well that makes for one hairy week!!!

 

I am picking and choosing the writing assignments based on how much other writing we are doing that week but it is helpful to know what others are doing. Yes, it has been a learning curve for ds too. However, I think he is learning how to take more ownership of his work and the increased writing will stand him in good stead even if he's not too thrilled about it right now.

 

I was starting to dread our long school days. I also don't want him to hate history either!

 

 

When there's a list of names like that, I require a *brief* paragraph on each one, just 1-3 sentences each. As you say, lists like that appear on days when the child is already expected to read (often from 2-3 sources) and write an outline or a summary (ours range from 1-3 pages, usually about two). And since one needs to complete about 3 lessons per week in order to finish in one school year, I just can't see requiring more than that. I've also found that sometimes those 1-3 sentence definitions are of personages who resurface later in more depth. So if William the Conqueror shows up as a definition today, the child may be required to write a more complete biography in another couple of weeks.

 

We did not do HO2-Ancients, so there has definitely been a learning curve for ds to figure out what's expected of him. We're spending a lot of time working on spotting the most important information and paring it down to write 1-2 sentences about a person, or reducing several pages of text to 1-2 pages of handwritten summary... But also feel like ds has learned a great deal -- both about history and about study skills...

[Capt_Uhura]

We're only on Ancients so I"m considering HO Ancients level 2. I think I would have to write some of it for DS. I bought him a digital voice recorder and I'll have him dictate and I will transcribe later. I can also have him transcribe later as well that way we can move forward and not get tripped up w/ the writing.

 

Capt_Uhura

[Brenda in FL]

YOu might find these thread helpful as well in determing how much writing to expect:

HO Thread

[TechWife]

Doing HO level 2 here, but with Early Modern. Perhaps the intro. information is different in the Early Modern, but here is what it says under How to Use This Guide:

"When asked to add a person or event to your binder, title your entry and include some important information. Place the entry in the appropriate section of your binder. A short summary is one to two sentences. A lengthy summary should be a complete paragraph consisting of at least five sentences."

 

In Letter to Parents and Teachers, it has the following information:

"Essays: In this edition of level two History Odssey your child will be asked towrite formal essays...lesson recommends essays be five paragraphs in length comprised of three main ideas to support the topic sentence. Please use this as a guideline only. If the topic sentence created by your child requires only two man ideas, then by all means don't require creation of another one just to fit the model."

 

In lesson 2, it has an assignment for a "one-page summary," which was not described in the introductory information.

 

My son is not working directly from the HO book - he is not quite able to plan out how to do lengthy assignments on his own, so I break them down into steps in HST+. I have taken the instructions gleaned from HO and combined them with the writing program we have used for years (IEW) to come up with his instructions. I renamed some of the assignments to use terms he was more familiar with or to make the title of the assignment more direct. Here is what I have in his notebook:

 

Short Summary– A short summary includes important dates. When writing about a person, also include their birth and death dates. Write two or three sentences that detail the importance of the person or event. You may write several summaries on the same piece of paper, however, be sure to leave room on the paper for further information when stated in the lesson. Place these summaries in the appropriate section of your binder.

 

Paragraph summary – write a one paragraph summary about the topic. Include any pertinent dates as well as details. Use your paragraph summary checklist.

Summary – a summary is longer than either of the previously mentioned assignment types. A summary is two to three paragraphs in length. It is important to pace yourself when completing these assignments. Use the first day to take notes and create an outline. If your summary is more than two paragraphs, write the first paragraph on the first day of the assignment, then the remaining two paragraphs on the second day of the assignment. Be sure to use the summary checklist.

Writing Assignments – use your IEW models and checklists for biographies and research reports. The model that you use will depend on the assignment. Most of these assignments will be utilizing either Model VI, Library Research Report or Model VIII, Formal Essay/Report. The models are located in your IEW Student Resource Notebook. You will be expected to complete a Bibliography for each of these papers. The model for a bibliography is in your Student Resource Notebook. You can also use Appendix A in the History Odyssey book as a source for models.

 

Book Projects – there are several creative book projects in this course. They will be based upon the books that you read. There are art projects, presentations, book covers and reports. Be sure to follow the instructions given in the assignment. Make sure that you use the writing structure and style techniques that you know. For a traditional book report, use the model for IEW Unit 9, Critique. You can find this in your Student Resource Notebook.

 

I am in the process of revising the IEW checklists to reflect his proficiency in writing, but here is basically what I will require:

Paragraph summary - clear topic sentance; four to five supporting facts; clincher (closing sentence); use of a variety of strong words (adjectives, adverbs, verbs); correct grammar, spelling and punctuation.

 

One page summary - Consists of a topic sentence; two to three body paragraphs, each with the same requirements mentioned in the "paragraph summary" description with the additional requirement that the paragraphs have statements that transtion the reader from one topic to the next; clincher or concluding sentence.

 

Writing Assignments - consists of an introductory paragraph containing an attention getter, topic sentence, background information, stmt. of topics and transition sentence to the first topic; two to four body paragraphs with the same requirements as in the one page summary, leaving out the concluding statement; a closing paragraph that restates the thesis and the supporting points with a concluding statement/clincher that repeats or reflects two to three key words from the opening. Writing assignments must be titled and the title should be tied into the concluding paragraph.

 

I know it sounds like a lot, but there is no editing to the short summaries, paragraph summaries or the one page summaries. Short summaries and paragraph summaries are typically completed in one day, one page summaries over two days and the longer writing assignments over about 6 days. There is editing involved in the full length writing assignments.

 

My son has been able to pull adequate information for the short summaries, paragraph summaries and one page summaries from the assigned reading without a problem. I have had to help him think through the assignment before he begins writing. There isn't necessarily going to be one heading on the page for a topic. Instead, information on the topic may be spread throughout the reading assignment, requiring him to draw conclusions about how the facts relate to each other. This logic stage skill does not yet come intuitively to my son and I anticipate having to guide him through the thought process until he can do it on his own.

 

For the lengthier writing assignments, he has picked out other resources from our own library or the public library to find information for the paper.

 

We are not proceeding at the pace suggested in the book, we seem to be going a bit slower. I am not sure how I am going to reconcile this at the end of the year. We have finished our 11th week of school and he has completed Lesson 15. There were a few weeks where we were not able to work on history consistently, which accounts for some of the lag. Other weeks, the assignments were involved enough and rich enough to warrant slowing down.

Edited November 1, 2009 by TechWife
formatting

[Capt_Uhura]

Thank you Techwife for your lengthy post. Did you do HO Ancients level 2 with your son? If so, what modifications did you make then? Was it much less writing than in Early Modern?

 

It sounds like if you are doing HO, this would be the writing for the year. I can't imagine you can do much other writing in addition to all of this? Our chemistry curriculum requires definitions 2x/week and on some weeks summaries (every other week). My son doesn't physically like to write so if I choose HO Ancients level 2, I'd have to help him w/ the writing by taking dictation.

 

Would you say that HO has more writing than SWB describes in The Well Trained Mind 2009 edition for logic stage history notebook?

 

Capt_Uhura

Edited November 1, 2009 by Capt_Uhura
adding more questions

[Sunshine State Sue]

Anyone used HO Ancients level 2 and can share how it went for you and how you implemented it?

 

We used HO 2 for Ancients and Middle Ages for 6th and 7th grade. Honestly, it was too writing-intensive for my ds. I did not particularly care for KHE and in the second year, we abandoned outlines in favor of note-taking. We especially found the History Pockets and Medieval Castle tedious. We did the History Pockets (minus the coloring) and abandoned the castle. We enjoyed the additional reading. We did the worksheets, geography, and timeline. We did the rest of the notebook (men&women, art&inventions, etc). We did none of the library/research suggestions.

 

HTH!

[TechWife]

Thank you Techwife for your lengthy post. Did you do HO Ancients level 2 with your son? If so, what modifications did you make then? Was it much less writing than in Early Modern?

No - this is our first year w/HO. We previously used Sonlight, having completed cores 1+2, 3 and 6.

It sounds like if you are doing HO, this would be the writing for the year. I can't imagine you can do much other writing in addition to all of this?

 

Yes, this will be the vast majority of writing for the year. See below for some more info. on science writing.

Our chemistry curriculum requires definitions 2x/week and on some weeks summaries (every other week).

Our life science curriculum has a lot of labs that must be written up properly in the lab book as well as a guided study workbook. All of this is done by physically handwriting. We will do chapter projects occasionally as well, which I expect will be completed in a lab book or on the computer.

My son doesn't physically like to write so if I choose HO Ancients level 2, I'd have to help him w/ the writing by taking dictation.

Is your son middle school age? I would encourage you to allow him to do much of his work on the computer. My son has dysgraphia and the computer is a life saver. The only history writing he does by hand are the short summaries and the time line. He does the paragraph summaries, one-page summaries and lengthy reports all on the computer. The quality of composition is much better than if he hand wrote it.

 

Also, have you figured out if there is a reason he doesn't like to write? Perhaps he could be assisted through some occupational therapy to develop hand strength and endurance. It might be a good idea to work on this now, as his future writing assignments as well as math assignments will require a lot of handwriting. You may have addressed this already, I know.

Would you say that HO has more writing than SWB describes in The Well Trained Mind 2009 edition for logic stage history notebook?Capt_Uhura

I think HO is on target with logic state writing in TWTM 2009 edition. I think of HO as TWTM already scheduled for me.

 

One thing you might find helpful if you choose HO is using the Note Taking and Outlining book recommended in TWTM to teach, well, note taking and outlining! Study Skills Strategies: Outlining is another excellent book, but it is much pricier than the first book I recommended.

[Capt_Uhura]

Techwife,

 

Thank you for being so helpful. My son is only in 4th grade, I'm just planning right now. He's definitely logic stage thinking and several people have said that I need to challenge him more. History is his passion along with science. I've been reading WTM 2009 edition and have thought about us making a history notebook together. Then I came across HO which seemed like a good way to get us started on the history notebook.

 

He doesn't mind writing if it's something he wants to write. We just finished Bravewriter's KWB class and he begged to do another writing class, Just So Stories. He mainly doesn't like to write in math. :001_huh: And he doesn't like learning cursive. He is beginning to learn to type but he hates practicing. He doesn't mind writing for chemistry for example, at least so far, we'll be coming to summaries next week.

 

My 1st grader is ready to start SOTW Ancients vol 1. So I was toying with the idea of having my 4th grader do Ancients again (we'd only gotten to chapter 11 of SOTW1 but he knows a lot of history from learning in his own) and starting a history notebook to learn note taking, picking out the key ideas. We currently do oral narrations for history, science, literature. My 1st grader is finishing WWE1 and my 4th grader is finishing WWE2 with no problems. We've been working through Beginning Outlining by Remedia Publications (http://www.rempub.com/Details.cfm?ProdId=3859&category=0) which I thought I had read about in WTM. Perhaps it was the older edition or it was recommended here. I see in WTM2009 she recommends Note Taking and Outlining by Frank Schaffer Publications as you listed above.

 

I can't find Note Taking and Outlining at the School Specialty publishing website as listed in WTM 2009 and the grade 3-5 is through Amazon marketplace. I see the grade 6-8 is 4 for 3 and I actually need a 4 for 3 book right now, ha ha ha. I wonder if that would work sufficiently.

 

WEll, that's it in a nutshell. Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. :001_smile:

 

Capt_Uhura

Edited November 1, 2009 by Capt_Uhura

[coffeegal]

So I was toying with the idea of having my 4th grader do Ancients again Capt_Uhura

 

I'm jumping in here. :001_smile: My oldest 3 children are using HO. My 5th grader is using Ancients, 6th Medieval, and 7th Early Modern. There is definitely a difference in the amount of writing expected from the different grade levels. The ancients level is much easier than medeval or early modern. The lessons are shorter and the amount of reading on any given day is shorter. My 7th grader is expected to produce an essay. My 6th grader is expected to produce a proper biography and do the research necessary. My 5th grader is expected to do a summary paper, an introduction to formal papers. My 7th grader is expected to produce a detailed outline of Kingfisher. My 6th grader is learning to produce a detailed outline. My 5th grader is expected to fill in the blank. ;) There is such a difference in expectations between the level 2 HO that I would suggest you take a look at the 'try before you buy' at Pandia Press. It's because of the changes in difficulty that I chose to seperate the children this year. My kids have been thriving with HO as a result. Each child is being challenged and stretched, but none to the point of frustration or tears.

 

HTH!

[Amy in CO]

We are using HO Ancients, level 2 this year. The writing is very basic. Some of the lessons do require more writing than others. I have my son set a timer on the longer lessons. And he only has to work for 30 mins. If he is almost finished at the 30 min mark, and wants to continue, he can, otherwise he is done. This works great for the longer writing lessons and the pocket lessons. We do history and science daily, about 30 mins each a day, 4 days a week.

 

As previously mentioned, at the beginning of the book it states that a short summary is 1-2 sentences, and longer summary is 5 sentences. My son is on about lesson 20 out of 87. He had to do one, one-page summary so far, on pyramids and how people believe they were built.

 

With the pockets, my son doesn't mind doing them, he just doesn't like coloring them, so I don't make him. He just reads them, cuts them out, and glues them together.

 

My son has really enjoyed this program. He likes that he can do it on his own instead of waiting for me to do it. The only complaint he had was the pyramid report. He didn't like reading all the books trying to find a different belief on how the pyramids were built. They all said basically the same thing. So he ended up using a history channel show we had watched that suggested a different way.

 

I set up his binder the way they suggest, and then I put 2 pages from HO manual into page protectors in the front of his binder. When he finishes those pages, I switch them out for the next two pages. That way the pages aren't getting torn up in the main manual.

[TeaTotaler]

Thank you again for all the responses. My day was derailed yesterday and I couldn't respond earlier.

 

Brenda in FL: thanks for linking the other thread. That had some good info.

 

Techwife :The info about short summary and lengthy summary is not in the Med guide. I purchased a print version at convention so that may be in the ebook version. In my HO guide the only specific info the on writing is a brief paragraph about Outlining. I think this kind of info should be included in all guides because not everyone starts the program with Ancients.

 

Please continue to post if you are using HO and how it is working for you.

 

 

could you tell me how much writing your dc are doing. Are they completing all the writing assignments?

 

 

Thanks in advance

[Capt_Uhura]

Teatotaler - sorry if I hijacked your thread. :blushing:

 

AmyinCo - thanks for your info!!!

[TeaTotaler]

Oh, it's perfectly fine to ask for info...you weren't hijacking. Glad the thread helped you.

 

Teatotaler - sorry if I hijacked your thread. :blushing:

 

AmyinCo - thanks for your info!!!

[Capt_Uhura]

TeaTotaler -I downloaded the new samples of each of the level 2 Ancients, Middle Ages, and Early Modern. It seems that the Middle Ages, for some reason, omits the part about the summaries!

 

Lesson Assignments (From Ancients and Early MOdern)

Throughout these lessons you will be asked to summarize readings by finding central ideas and outlining. You will also mark dates on your timeline, color and label maps, and read from the list of resources. Try to do all of

the assignments listed. When asked to add a person or event to your binder, title your entry and include some important information. Place the entry in the appropriate section of your binder. A short summary is one to

two sentences. A lengthy summary should be a complete paragraph consisting of at least five sentences. When you are finished with this course you will have a binder that is full of information you have learned and work

you have completed. More importantly, you will have an education about early modern history to treasure always.

 

 

 

Lesson Assignments (From Middle AGes)

 

Throughout these lessons you will be asked to summarize readings by

finding central ideas and outlining. You will also mark dates on your timeline, color and label maps, and read from the list of resources. Try to do all of

the assignments listed. When asked to add a person or event to your binder, title your entry and include some important information. Place the entry in the appropriate section of your binder. Important people are high-

lighted in bold throughout these plans. When you are finished with this course you will have a binder that is full of information you have learned and work you have completed. More importantly, you will have an education about the Middle Ages to treasure always.

 

 

Capt_Uhura

[TeaTotaler]

Thanks. Glad to know I didn't just miss it in my reading. I thought I had scoured all the pages I had :).

 

TeaTotaler -I downloaded the new samples of each of the level 2 Ancients, Middle Ages, and Early Modern. It seems that the Middle Ages, for some reason, omits the part about the summaries!

 

Lesson Assignments (From Ancients and Early MOdern)

Throughout these lessons you will be asked to summarize readings by finding central ideas and outlining. You will also mark dates on your timeline, color and label maps, and read from the list of resources. Try to do all of

the assignments listed. When asked to add a person or event to your binder, title your entry and include some important information. Place the entry in the appropriate section of your binder. A short summary is one to

two sentences. A lengthy summary should be a complete paragraph consisting of at least five sentences. When you are finished with this course you will have a binder that is full of information you have learned and work

you have completed. More importantly, you will have an education about early modern history to treasure always.

 

 

 

Lesson Assignments (From Middle AGes)

 

Throughout these lessons you will be asked to summarize readings by

finding central ideas and outlining. You will also mark dates on your timeline, color and label maps, and read from the list of resources. Try to do all of

the assignments listed. When asked to add a person or event to your binder, title your entry and include some important information. Place the entry in the appropriate section of your binder. Important people are high-

lighted in bold throughout these plans. When you are finished with this course you will have a binder that is full of information you have learned and work you have completed. More importantly, you will have an education about the Middle Ages to treasure always.

 

 

Capt_Uhura