Looking for help with handwriting, phonics, and spelling

[lovelee]

Hi there,

I'm sure there are tons of questions about this topic, but I could use some advice for "our" situation.

 

I have a newly 3rd grader, that is at *maybe* a first grade reading level, and has poor handwriting.

 

When he was younger I got a lot of resistance with him, so just thought I'd "wait" until he was "ready". We used to be *very* laid back in our HS approach. About a year and a half ago, we got serious about school, and have been following the classical method since.

 

I didn't really do much with him regarding phonics, etc. until last year, when I did Sound Beginnings with him. It is a phonics/reading/spelling/listening/handwriting program. He did *ok* with it at first, but now there is SO much we need to do each day, and it's hard to keep "on lesson", because he is maybe doing well in one area, and poorly in another, but I can't really adjust the pace in any of the area's, because they're all wrapped up together. I've noticed alot of letter/number reversals with him as well. I'm not really worried about it, but he does get discouraged and thinks he "stupid" because of it. He has never liked to write, color, or draw, and it just seems more difficult for him.

 

I keep hearing great reviews about Handwriting Without Tears, and I think he could really benefit from it, however, I can't implement it with what I'm using, because they have totally different handwriting methods. I would have to use another phonics program, and then find a spelling program.

 

I already have Alphaphonics (though I don't know how to use it), and I have the Ordinary Parents Guide to Teaching Reading, that was given to me by a friend, as well as 100ez Lessons. I don't mind 100ez Lessons, but it's what I used with my 11 yr old daughter, and she was slow to jump into reading, and is still a *terrible* speller, so I don't think I want to use it again.

 

SO, if I go with HWT, I need to know what else to do. I'm a little overwhelmed, because I feel like I need to do remedial work with my 11 year old, remedial/basic instruction with my 8 year old, AND I have a 5 year old that WANTS to learn to read this year!!

 

We were so "relaxed" for so long, and I just though things would "work out", but it didn't. I have 2 kids that need extra help, and I don't want to make the same mistakes with my third!!

 

So I need:

 

Most importantly:

Phonics for my 8 yr. old boy

(Some kind of spelling program, so he hopefully gets a better start than his older sister)

 

Also:

Remedial phonics, spelling, handwriting help for my 11 yr. old daughter

 

And:

New instruction in phonics for my 5 yr old daughther! (And I guess I would use HWT with her too...)

 

I'm so embarrased they are so behind! I really want to bring them up to where then need to be, but am so overwhlemed. I was so determined to just stick with Sound Beginnings, becuase I use to be a curriculum jumper, but it really does seem to be too much for him to do all of that all wrapped together.

 

Thanks for any help!

[Tidbits of Learning]

Handwriting without tears is really great. I used printing power with my dd8 last year and it was a lifesaver. I don't know about remedial phonics. We are using the Reading Lesson and love it, but I am not sure how it would be for an 8 yr old. They have samples on their site and you could definitely use it with your 5 yr old.

I have used Hooked on Phonics with success with my girls before 2nd grade. I found it very easy to use and the kids enjoyed it and improved their reading. I plan to use it again with ds6.5 after he finishes The Reading Lesson.

We also use a slant board and pencil grips during handwriting time. It really has helped my dc's handwriting. We also keep a poster on the wall of the manuscript letters and a numbers chart to 100 that seems to help my ds with his reversals.

[Katrina J]

Have a look at www.phonicsinternational.com. I haven't got time to go into detail right now but I think you could use it for all 3 children for reading, spelling and handwriting. The Early Years Starter Package is very affordable and the program author will personally answer any questions you have on her message board. I think they are developing a North American version, so you might like to inquire about that. I've looked at a lot of programs and it is still my favorite in terms of quality, effectiveness, price and flexibility.

 

A reading specialist friend recommended the 'I See Sam' series of books as a way of putting some fun back into my reading program (I was looking for games and she said I wouldn't need them with these books). My kids love them and they are the only books my dd7 will read on her own for pleasure.

[ElizabethB]

Your older two could watch my online phonics lessons (in my signature below), they are designed for an older remedial student so they teach the basics but move at a fast pace, getting to 2 and 3 syllable words at the end of each lesson.

 

You could work all 3 of them through my step by step instructions to Blend Phonics, having them each do a few words in each section, but also have your older two do some spelling from it. I would also have your older 2 do the syllable division exercises. It's a very quick moving phonics program that just focuses on the basics. The instructions are on my how to tutor page in this paragraph:

 

Your number one task is to get them to stop guessing and start sounding out each and every word from left to right. Nonsense words are key, they help prevent guessing. Here is a free website that generates nonsense words. Syllables are also helpful, I would use the Blend Phonics Reader (it helps show how guessing is a bad strategy by showing words with similar configuration together) followed by Webster’s Speller. Here is a step by step guide to using Blend Phonics that also adds in syllables, spelling and phonics rules, syllable division rules, and syllable division exercises. There are also readings from Hebrews 12 that can be added to show progress through the program.

 

You could also play my phonics concentration game with all 3 children.

 

I've had children move up as much as 4 reading grade levels in 2 months while doing this and then Webster's Speller. The Blend Phonics intro is a gentle introduction into Webster's Speller and should get you ready to use it. My first 20 phonics lessons have also been updated and teach many of the syllables in Webster's Speller.

 

I like HWT, it's been helpful for us. My daughter does not do many letter reversals, but she used to reverse her 7's a lot before we did HWT.

 

The 3 programs you have are all good programs. You could use Alphaphonics also for a quick review, sounding out a few words from each section. I find my students learn best we we cover all the sounds quickly and then review what wasn't caught the first time--the quicker they master all the sounds needed to sound out every word, the better. I would use Alphaphonics across the page instead of down to prevent guessing from word families. (I have been tutoring with phonics since 1994 and have tried about 20 different phonics programs! OPG and 100EZ lessons are also good programs, but harder to work through in a quick manner for a remedial student because of their layout.)

Edited August 26, 2009 by ElizabethB

[lovelee]

Sound Beginnings is based on the Writing Road to Reading, by Spalding. It seems like a good program, I just don't know how to slow down in one area, while still making progress over all.

 

Thanks for the ideas.

 

Elizabeth, I listened to your Lesson 1. When my son was in speech therapy several years ago, he learned letters like f, k, t as sounds that do not use the voice like "t" instead of "tuh". I think this would confuse him now to hear it that way. Is there a reason for adding the "uh" at the end of the sounds instead of it being a "pure" sound?

 

After seeing your suggestion, and reading more info here about Webster's, I'm interested in that, but would need some guidance or a manual. Also, when it comes to teaching materials, I like to have a "hard copy". I'm not good at using alot of online materials. I want to have something in my hands! It seems like it could be "simple" if I just understood it!

 

I am completely overwhelmed by the sheer volume of information on your site, and Don Potter's site.

 

Regarding Blend Phonics, I see your instructions and Don's. Are they the same or different? I see lots of word lists, like Alphaphonics. Are they just suppose to read the lists?

 

This is where I get hung up on this program, and what I've seen from the Webster's book... How do you know what to do with the word lists?

 

Thanks!

[ElizabethB]

You can't say a sound like t without at least a little bit of an "uh" sound, you can say less, but you cannot say consonants in isolation without a bit of a vowel sound except for a few special ones like m and n. My microphone does not pick up the sounds unless I enunciate them clearly and hold them out a bit longer, so many of them have a bit more of an "uh" sound. Also, I have to compress the files to make them available for free on the internet, that also degrades the audio a bit, again, making it important that I hold the sounds out a bit longer.

 

You can see an explanation of this with pictures on my dyslexia page, it's also the reason that syllables are helpful, the sound of a syllable in isolation is the same as it sound in a word. That's why I like Webster's Speller for anyone with any type of speech or language problems. It's in the section titled, "The atomic nature of syllables."

 

I print out a copy of Webster's Speller and work from it even when I teach it from the board. (I teach from the book for older students and from a white board for younger students.) It's on Don's Spelling Book page, I like the uppercase version, but you can also use his main version.

 

With any of the programs, you just have your children sound out the words from left to right. At first, they say each sound and then the whole word: /c/ /a/ /t/ cat. Then, once they're getting the hang of it, you can just have them say the words once you're sure they are sounding them out from left to right properly.

 

Here's a good thread about how to use Webster's Speller for an older student:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97408

 

and for a beginning student:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70153

 

There is also a movie showing how to use the speller on my Webster page below in my signature.

 

My instructions are step by step exactly what to say instructions based on how I taught it to a class of older remedial students. It's very scripted, I wrote it so that the volunteers in my church who helped out with the class could use it after I moved here to California. They specifically requested step by step, idiot proof instructions. Don's instructions are general instructions for teaching blending. Also, there are instructions from Hazel Loring for how to use it to teach a group of 1st grade students to read.

 

With Webster's Speller, you use the word lists the same way, but at first sound out each syllable, then the whole word. You start first with the syllables, learning to sound them out. Then, you sound out words using the syllables you have learned. Syllables ending in a vowel are long, ending in a consonant are short. I also like to have my students spell a few words from each table, it helps them retain the information better.

 

ba-ker, Bi-ble, to-ma-to; in-to, ab-stract, tom-boy.

[Ellie]

You're not "so behind." :-)

 

Spalding. It does everything you're looking for in one fell swoop.

[Julie_Julie]

THANK YOU so much for sharing your hard work! I've been looking for a phonics game, and more help in teaching spelling. Thanks again!

 

Your older two could watch my online phonics lessons (in my signature below), they are designed for an older remedial student so they teach the basics but move at a fast pace, getting to 2 and 3 syllable words at the end of each lesson.

 

You could work all 3 of them through my step by step instructions to Blend Phonics, having them each do a few words in each section, but also have your older two do some spelling from it. I would also have your older 2 do the syllable division exercises. It's a very quick moving phonics program that just focuses on the basics. The instructions are on my how to tutor page in this paragraph:

 

 

 

You could also play my phonics concentration game with all 3 children.

 

I've had children move up as much as 4 reading grade levels in 2 months while doing this and then Webster's Speller. The Blend Phonics intro is a gentle introduction into Webster's Speller and should get you ready to use it. My first 20 phonics lessons have also been updated and teach many of the syllables in Webster's Speller.

 

I like HWT, it's been helpful for us. My daughter does not do many letter reversals, but she used to reverse her 7's a lot before we did HWT.

 

The 3 programs you have are all good programs. You could use Alphaphonics also for a quick review, sounding out a few words from each section. I find my students learn best we we cover all the sounds quickly and then review what wasn't caught the first time--the quicker they master all the sounds needed to sound out every word, the better. I would use Alphaphonics across the page instead of down to prevent guessing from word families. (I have been tutoring with phonics since 1994 and have tried about 20 different phonics programs! OPG and 100EZ lessons are also good programs, but harder to work through in a quick manner for a remedial student because of their layout.)

[lovelee]

Elizabeth,

I was looking at "blend phonics" on your site again, and "blend phonics" on Don's site, and they seem *totally* different! Are they?? Yours seems very similar to what I see in the Webster's Speller, and Don's seems more like lists. Are they the same "program", or different?

 

Also, is there any reason why we would need to do Blend Phonics as apposed to jumping right into Websters? Though I still don't know exactly how to implement it, it appears that it starts at a very basic level. I'm off to print it today.

 

Would Websters be a complete stand alone "tool", or should it still be used in combination with another phonics program like PP, OPG, or AP?

 

Thanks! I'm getting closer!

[Nancy Ann]

Have you looked at All About Spelling ? This could be used for all your children for phonics AND spelling.

 

http://www.all-about-spelling.com/

[lovelee]

Elizabeth,

After I printed out your guide, I figured out yours is the step by step approach for the guide on Don's site. Sorry, I didn't look closer before I asked!

 

I printed off Webster's too, and I'm still curious if one could just start using that, or if you feel blend phonics or another program is necessary as a prep?

 

Also, I have 3 kids that I'm doing phonics with. A 11 yr. old, and 8 yr. old, and a 5 yr. old. If I'm doing Websters with them, would I start them all at the beginning, and just go at different speeds, or would I skip some of the first part with an older student?

 

I love your Blend Phonics guide. It would be SOOOO nice to have something like this to accompany the Webster's!!

 

Thanks!

[Sue G in PA]

Just to give you more to look at, I'll add another suggestion. The Phonics Road to Reading and Spelling has been discussed on the board and after looking at several different programs, decided on this one b/c it is handwriting, phonics, spelling, reading, and then language arts later on and then moves into the Latin Road to English. It is quite expensive for all the materials, but it seems like you have a 5yo who could use this as well! For your older child, you could let him use his own paper instead of the student materials in level one b/c he would likely move quickly through. This is what I am doing with my ds8 who reads well, but needs remedial with spelling and handwriting. http://www.thephonicsroad.com has a demo video clip.

[Ellie]

 

Spalding. You can use it to teach both your dc: reading, spelling, penmanship, capitalization and punctuation, basic writing. If you add the study guides, it can be a more comprehensive writing as well as grammar.

[lovelee]

Thanks for the ideas.

 

:)

[justamouse]

I used Spalding: The Writing Road to Reading and later Spelling Power.

 

My kids are good spellers and their cursive is great.

[monalisa]

You probably know this, but because I did weeks of research trying to figure out what do with my dd for phonics & spelling. Using Writing Road to Reading (by Romalda Spalding) will not be much if any different than what you are doing with Sound Beginnings. Sound Beginnings was based on WRTR methodology from what I understand. I seriously considered getting it. Yes, WRTR is all inclusive but it is not for everyone.

 

We are using Ordinary Parents Guide, All About Spelling, and Handwriting without Tears . I started out the year using a more complex phonics program but OPG is working better and takes very little time for a great result. I don't have dd read from the book all the time - I write out the words on my big white board on the wall, and sometimes have her do the writing which she loves (on the whiteboard). My dd REALLLY struggles with writing, so HWT is great for her. She doesn't like AAS too much yet, but I'm going to give it some time. I really wanted to use WRTR and even looked at Sound Beginnings, but the intensive handwriting focus would have made dd and me insane. Plus, she doesn't like having to say the AAS phonograms, so that would have been another downer. There are WRTR devotees that say its the only thing, but not everything works for everyone.

 

HWT is pretty inexpensive (get the teacher guide, it has great tips & teaching helps), and you have OPG, so you could at least try those for a low investment. The 2 slates are worth it too. Have your son read the stories in OPG lessons until he gets to a spot where he struggles, then start at that lesson. You could start at lesson 1, but the first 41 lessons are reviewing the individual letter sounds so that might be too simple for him. If you added AAS, the first step is learning the phonograms for all 26 letters so you'd have covered that anyhow.

 

just my 2cents.

[ElizabethB]

Elizabeth,

I was looking at "blend phonics" on your site again, and "blend phonics" on Don's site, and they seem *totally* different! Are they?? Yours seems very similar to what I see in the Webster's Speller, and Don's seems more like lists. Are they the same "program", or different?

 

Also, is there any reason why we would need to do Blend Phonics as apposed to jumping right into Websters? Though I still don't know exactly how to implement it, it appears that it starts at a very basic level. I'm off to print it today.

 

Would Websters be a complete stand alone "tool", or should it still be used in combination with another phonics program like PP, OPG, or AP?

 

Thanks! I'm getting closer!

 

If you can figure it out, Webster's is great stand alone, that's all I did with my daughter!

 

But, I found that many people needed a more gentle intro, and so added syllables and instruction to Blend Phonics. The added exercises are rules are also helpful.

 

There are 2 blend phonics files on Don's website--the original lists, and a "Blend Phonics Reader," which has lists he made for older remedial students to help them overcome guessing problems. It's the same words and the same basic order or teaching, just different presentation for different students--a beginning young student or an older remedial student.

 

My instructions add in syllables and spelling to Blend Phonics, and also syllable division exercises and spelling and phonics rules. When I did Webster's with my daughter, I just told her these rules as we went along, and I also did some syllable division exercises with her.

Edited September 10, 2009 by ElizabethB

[ElizabethB]

Elizabeth,

After I printed out your guide, I figured out yours is the step by step approach for the guide on Don's site. Sorry, I didn't look closer before I asked!

 

I printed off Webster's too, and I'm still curious if one could just start using that, or if you feel blend phonics or another program is necessary as a prep?

 

Also, I have 3 kids that I'm doing phonics with. A 11 yr. old, and 8 yr. old, and a 5 yr. old. If I'm doing Websters with them, would I start them all at the beginning, and just go at different speeds, or would I skip some of the first part with an older student?

 

I love your Blend Phonics guide. It would be SOOOO nice to have something like this to accompany the Webster's!!

 

Thanks!

 

You're welcome!

 

I would use the Blend Phonics first, the rules and syllable division exercises should be especially helpful for your older children. You can just do a word or two from sections that they know well.

 

Here are 2 threads to help you out with Webster's:

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97408

 

http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70153

 

After finishing the Blend Phonics, you can start them all at the 2 syllable word in Webster's. Eventually, your older children should progress further than your younger children, but you can start out your day by doing a few syllables for review with everyone. Also, since everything is based on syllables, they can all benefit from watching each other's lessons, it will be great review and preview. You can also do a bit more spelling with your older children. I generally have my students spell about 1 word for every 20 they read.

[lovelee]

MonaLisa,

Thanks, yes, I did know Sound Beginnings was based on RWTR, I didn't want to go there again, it was just too much all wrapped up into one! Thanks for your thoughts on HWT.

 

Elizabeth,

Thanks for the clarification!

 

So,

I decided to go with HWT for handwriting. It should be arriving any day.

 

I decided not to go with AAS, because I had tried that with my oldest and I didn't care for it. I toyed with OPG, but it just didn't "fit".

 

I really like the Blend Phonics, and I ordered Phonics Pathways too. I really like it as well.

 

With my 10yr. old, I'm doing Webster's

 

With my 8 yr. old, I'm doing Blend Phonics and a little bit of PP, but will transition into Webster's when he's done with Blend Phonics. I can see now how Elizabeth actually has some overlapping there for a a hopefully smooth transition.

 

With my 5 yr. old, I don't mind moving at a slower/fun pace, so I'm doing PP with her, and she sits in on her brothers Blend Phonics.

 

I love the idea of Webster's, I hope I'm just able to carry it through!

 

Thanks so much!

 

So far so good!

[ElizabethB]

That sounds great! I like PP, too, and have used parts of it with my daughter for review and also some of my remedial students.