Singapore, CLE Math, Miquon ?

[rousselab]

I am new to homeschooling and trying to find the math program that is the best fit for us. Color or the lack of it doesn't seem to be an issue with my oldest, so that's not really a factor in our decision. I want to use a strong math program that teaches all of the necessary info (of course), however I don't want one that only teaches facts and memorization. I understand the importance of memorizing the facts, however I really want our children to be able to understand math and to be able to visualize it utilizing mental math. I hope that makes sense....

 

So....we have three children, the oldest of whom knows her numbers, shapes, can count in the hundreds, and is showing a strong desire to learn more math. We have two younger ones as well. We have pattern blocks, cuisenaire rods, and other manipulatives. Anyway, I have researched the many math programs and here are some that we are leaning towards from the various samples and/or reviews online.

 

CLE: I have read that most everyone who uses it likes it, and has had good success long term with it. I also like that it is Christ centered and seems to be very thorough. However, I am wondering if CLE math mostly teaches fact memorization as you progress through their curriculum. I have a 100 level teachers guide, but can't tell from this early level if they introduce things like number bonds or grouping things mentally in order to make math easier and more fun. I would really appreciate some insight from CLE math curriculum users.

 

Singapore: I was able to look briefly at some of the early/primer Singapore books. At the time I just didn't like they way they looked (although I don't remember what I didn't like specifically). LOL. I was not able to see the advancing levels at that time, but have since found some samples online. I LOVE the way Singapore uses number bonds. Does Singapore use other things like this in order to help students visualize math? For those of you who have used Singapore for a long time, do you feel that it covers all of the necessary topics for high school and college math? Do you think that your children have been well prepared using Singapore?

 

My only other Singapore question is regarding their different editions. I have heard to get the homeschool edition of the TM. Also to use the US edition. And they also have a standards edition? Do they have a US standards editions, and what are the benefits to using the standards edition? .

 

Also, someone on the boards recently recommended Miquon, and I have seen that many people use Miquon and Singapore together. I am not sure that I want to use more than one program at this point though, along with manipulatives and perhaps some fun games as well.

 

For those who have used Miquon and Singapore, do you think it might be best to begin young children in Miquon and the start Singapore in a year or two?

 

Sorry for so many questions, but I know that I have a lot to learn from those who are experienced homeschooler.

 

Thank so much!

 

Anita

Edited August 7, 2009 by rousselab

[rousselab]

Anyone have words of wisdom? :)

[AudreyTN]

We only used CLE very briefly... it was after I thought Singapore might be a mistake and before I decided that Singapore was exactly what we needed. :)

 

"I understand the importance of memorizing the facts, however I really want our children to be able to understand math and to be able to visualize it utilizing mental math."

 

I chose Singapore for that very reason.

 

The Standards Edition (STE) contains everything that the US Ed. does, plus a few other topics. So, this year (starting with 3A) we've switched to the STE.

 

If you're starting with 1A/B you may not need the Home Instructor's Guide (HIG). I have them, but I can't recall ever using them. I also have them for level 2. I did not buy it for 3A, money is tight so I'm trying it without the guide, but I'm still open to buying it later. :)

[Old Dominion Heather]

I've used Singapore, not CLE. My boys love it and have thrived using it. I use the U.S. Edition, but I have heard that the Standards Edition is great, too and it does have what is supposed to be a great teacher's manual. I used to teach math, so I've not investigated that myself.

 

My kids are VERY well prepared for higher math and I feel that Singapore is the strongest math program available. Other people find that it doesn't work well for their kids. I do think it perhaps works best for kids who are not intimidated by math. The methods of teaching are tried and true and I couldn't be more pleased with how well my kids know math. They both switched from another program and after a year doing Singapore, tested three years ahead in the other program.

 

If you check on the Accelerated Learner board and do a search for Singapore, you can probably find more info.

[blessedmom3]

I know many people here love Singapore . I ordered 1 a and 1b, including the extra practice , textbooks and workbooks. I have studied it for weeks. I decided it's not for me. I showed it to my son , he didn't like it either.

For now we like much better Horizons. He likes the color in it. I am good at math and know how to explain concepts beyond the Horizons's book . We use a lot of manipulatives: unifix cubes , Abacus (same to Righstart math ) , base ten blocs .

 

That said , maybe you will like better Singapore. Why don't you order the first workbook and see how it goes?

 

I may try next year CLE . It is more comprehensive than Horizons and the Teacher manual much better. But for k to 2nd grade I prefer Horizons. CAthy Duffy also said it's one of the best math for elementary.

[TracyR]

I used Singapore briefly and it didn't work well for my 2nd daughter. With that said I do think it is a good math program.

 

I do use CLE. CLE is just not memorizing math facts. They don't teach number bonds in the same way Singapore does but the children do learn that 2+3=5 and 3+2=5

CLE does have mental math in the program as well.

 

It depends on how well your child learns. If he or she needs extra practice and does well learning concepts a little at a time then CLE would work for your child. If they need to stay on a subject for a little while longer then a mastery program would work better.

CLE works well for all types of learners actually. Sometimes I've even assigned math problems so that my daughter isn't doing so many or what not. I can say that her test scores were very impressive this year so I am very happy with CLE. Needless to say she isn't going to use it this year because she wanted to go back to Bob Jones math. So I've not so happily agreed.

 

Have you looked at Bob Jones math? It is similar to Bob Jones, it works a bit slower though. It is an excellent math program and it maybe just what your looking for too. Either way you can't go wrong with CLE, Singapore or BJU. You just need to find out what type of learner your child is first.

[rousselab]

So does Singapore Standard Ed. use US measurements like the US edition does?

 

And for those using Horizon Math, does it also teach ways to do math mentally, not just teaching by memorization of facts alone. Does Horizon use things like number bonds in Singapore or how the "9 always wants to be a 10" in MUS?

http://www.singaporemath.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/sp_pmhig1b2.pdf

 

Has anyone used CLE for a few years who can tell me if it teaches in these (mental math) ways as well?

 

Thanks to everyone who has responded so far. I appreciate it very much. :)

Edited August 7, 2009 by rousselab

[TracyR]

Technically numbers bonds would be something you would only see in Singapore math because its not really a US way of teaching math. None of the other math programs will teach number bonds the same way Singapore does. American math programs teach fact families. You can find ways to teach number bonds though from: http://letsplaymath.wordpress.com/2007/01/13/number-bonds-better-understanding/ So you don't HAVE to use Singapore to teach number bonds.

CLE does teach US measurement, and yes CLE does teach math "tricks" in the Light Units as well.

Edited August 7, 2009 by TracyR

[MeAndTheBoys]

We are in our 3rd year of CLE and it is a great fit for my older son. I have started my 2nd son in CLE 1 and it appears to be a good fit too.

 

It is a very solid and well-balanced program. It is NOT mere fact memorization, although it can look that way if you just pick up a book and skim it.

 

I used to teach middle- and high school math, and I am quite impressed by the gentle way CLE builds on itself and leads the child to think through the process, almost figuring out the methods and reasoning behind mathematical processes, one tiny step at a time. It does teach shortcuts--just today, our lesson was introducing the term "multiples" and had the child counting by 4's by circling them on a chart, and just barely mentioning that those are "multiples" of 4. It will be interesting to watch how they build on that, and every part of it will be understood by the time they get to multiples and factors indepth later on. One baby step at a time----

 

I haven't looked at Singapore a lot, but I often hear how impressed people are with the "mental math". I really think a lot of that is in sweet, gentle CLE but the rigor of it is disguised in the presentation--CLE is very thorough and very rigorous, but the presentation is so different.

 

Betsy

CLE: I have read that most everyone who uses it likes it, and has had good success long term with it. I also like that it is Christ centered and seems to be very thorough. However, I am wondering if CLE math mostly teaches fact memorization as you progress through their curriculum. I have a 100 level teachers guide, but can't tell from this early level if they introduce things like number bonds or grouping things mentally in order to make math easier and more fun. I would really appreciate some insight from CLE math curriculum users.

Edited August 7, 2009 by MeAndTheBoys

[rousselab]

Thanks so much, Tracy and Betsy. I was hoping to hear this, because there are things that I really like about CLE that I am not finding elsewhere. So if I can teach number bonds on my on, and CLE teaches other math "tricks", that may be the best thing for us. I can't wait to look at the link you gave. Very encouraging!

Edited August 7, 2009 by rousselab

[AudreyTN]

So does Singapore Standard Ed. use US measurements like the US edition does?

 

Yes. The STE was written to align with California State Standards. So, it's still Singapore math, but the rearranged the topics and added a few "American" testing standards.

[MIch elle]

as well as mental math. I used R&S math for both my boys in the lower grades. I switched my younger ds to CLE math 5 (my older ds used R&S math 3-6,8). I'm glad we switched to CLE math; I find it to be an excellent math program. CLE does teach some mental math.

[TracyR]

I did forget to mention that CLE teaches fact families and not number bonds. There is a difference between the two and the link I provided does explain that too.

[AngieW in Texas]

My favorite math sequence is to use all of Miquon first and then start Singapore with level 3A when finished with Miquon. After Singapore 6B, I use Jacobs Algebra and/or Kinetic Books Algebra I followed by Jacobs Geometry and then Kinetic Books Algebra II.

 

My youngest didn't do well with Miquon, so she did Singapore starting with 1A.

 

I have only seen samples of the Standards edition. We use the US edition. I already own all the HIGs and textbooks for the US edition and see no reason to switch for my youngest.

[Shelly in the Country]

Also, someone on the boards recently recommended Miquon, and I have seen that many people use Miquon and Singapore together. I am not sure that I want to use more than one program at this point though, along with manipulatives and perhaps some fun games as well.

 

For those who have used Miquon and Singapore, do you think it might be best to begin young children in Miquon and the start Singapore in a year or two?

 

 

I use Singapore and Miquon together. With my two oldest kids I use Singapore as a spine and then add in Miquon to reinforce what they are learning in Singapore. Sometimes I'll add in Miquon if I see they approach something in a different way too. I think the Cuisenaire rods are just great for visualizing the math when they are just starting out. I have even used Cuisenaire rods with my eldest dd recently even though she has left Miquon behind now. I used them to help her visualize what Singapore wanted her to do with bar diagrams. Worked like a charm. :001_smile:

 

Every child is different, and I've read that some kids do better with other programs, but Singapore has been fantastic for us so far. (I still have two more kids coming up...)

[Tree House Academy]

I can speak to all 3 of them, but I can't tell you what is best for YOUR child. We did Singapore with Miquon. I detested Miquon because it made no sense to me - the order, the hands on elements...just not a fit for us at all. Singapore, we liked, but ds9 (at the time) was not "getting" the facts. We switched to CLE and he ios doing WONDERFULLY. We are halfway through the 400 level and the fact memorization is only a part of the whole program. Each day, he does a flash card drill with two sets of facts (takes about 2 minutes), a speed drill (1 minute - timed), then he does his lesson. The lessons have new material at the beginning and then a "review" through the rest of the lesson. He is constantly doing stuff he has already done, so his retention and fact knowledge is MUCH BETTER than it was with Singapore.

 

That is *our* experience, but I know plenty of people who LOVE Singapore and it works for their child.

[blessedmom3]

And for those using Horizon Math, does it also teach ways to do math mentally, not just teaching by memorization of facts alone. Does Horizon use things like number bonds in Singapore or how the "9 always wants to be a 10" in MUS?

 

I don't think Horizons teaches number bonds like Singapore , at least not in the early grades but I do think in early grades kids need more memorization . Also , I teach my son that 9 always wants to be 10 and that 10 is a "magic number" .

 

In my opinion , Horizons is best for K-1 or 2nd and CLE after that.

CLE for 1st has too much work and drill , Horizons is simpler and enough work for young children ,not to mention fun and colorful ,most kids need that at an early age but some don't (they get distracted with color).

If you are good at explainig simple math concepts , you dont need the TM, which makes Horizons the cheapest program .

 

I have not tried CLE but I have researched a lot about it and so far I have not find any negative review about it. Everyone raves about it . I am decided to try it for next year-2nd grade.

Edited August 7, 2009 by blessedmom3

[skaterbabs]

CLE: I have read that most everyone who uses it likes it, and has had good success long term with it. I also like that it is Christ centered and seems to be very thorough. However, I am wondering if CLE math mostly teaches fact memorization as you progress through their curriculum. I have a 100 level teachers guide, but can't tell from this early level if they introduce things like number bonds or grouping things mentally in order to make math easier and more fun. I would really appreciate some insight from CLE math curriculum users.

 

 

Actually, CLE does teach number bonds, "twin" number facts, "related" and "opposite" number facts, and does so and at incrediably GENTLE pace. They do stress fact memorization, but only to the extent that when the child is ready for more difficult work they don't want the child struggling to remember basic addition, subtraction, multiplication & division facts. They introduce the concept of place value in the first lightunit in the same lesson in which the dime is introduced, so the whole lesson is based on learning the value of ten. We're in the 103 lightunit and will likely finish it in a few days, and Dot already understands place value to the hundreds. If you say to her "what number has three hundreds, two tends and five ones?" she will tell you it's 325. She can add nickels, dimes and pennies up to a dollar now, and count by 2, 5, and 10.

 

Dot averages two lessons a day, and so far has scored 100% correct on every test and quiz. I suspect she will slow down at some point soon, but thus far she's blowing through it. We do skip a lot of the review work, in part because some of the material covered in the 100 level is stuff she's known for a year +. (For example, telling time to the hour, addition & subtraction facts to ten, etc.)

 

The lessons are actually only about 3 pages, with a LOT of blank space on each page, and large print. Dot can do two lessons in about half an hour, but as I said, we do skip some of the review when I *know* she knows it.

Edited August 8, 2009 by skaterbabs

[siloam]

Anita,

 

I love Singapore for the critical thinking, problem solving skills it teaches. That said I do not like or use the Earlybird books. I would recommend Right Start math instead for Pre-K and K, then moving over to Singapore for the primary series.

 

Though admittedly I haven't used the new books. It still looks like they have some mis-match in skill levels. I really disliked how it would have the child do single diget addition (appropriate) then they were supposed to read numbers or ordinal values (What???).

 

Heather

[Sweetbabe]

Hi

 

The current Singapore (Edition 2000 I dont think available here) are more colourful and kids friendly. My kids like it, but they never been expose to other programs. Since I'm back hime for now, I'm exploring other programs to supplement. FYI, Singapore schools uses the books with classroom materials. I'm thinking of purchasing RS materials and adapt to Singapore (topical). If you have any questions abt Spore math you can email me :001_smile: