Barack, his opinion, and free speech

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

I would guess that any lower enlisted servicemember with a family would automatically qualify for welfare of some sort unless the spouse had an awesome job. My bil is an E-4 and they still qualify for WIC.

 

For us a big part of 'financial sacrifice' is that while dh makes an alright salary with the military, he could make significantly more in the private sector. You aren't eligible for a raise just because you do awesome job -you get paid the same as Joe Blow who does a crappy job. There aren't any bonuses when a project is completed on time and on budget. You get paid according to the tables, period.

 

However, it is a sacrifice we are willing to make because we believe strongly that for us, this is the place we can serve the best.

 

Yes, I have a feeling that the DOD envisioned enlisted personnel as single. Those enlisted rates certainlly are not conducive to raising a family, especially if one lives off base. But, just as military personnel chose to serve, they also choose to get married and have families. FWIW, I couldn't imagine being single and living off base at less than E5 with 5.

[Jumping In Puddles]

and 3...2...1....

[mommaduck]

These two statements "Most military qualify for food stamps" and "I have known AF officers that were on welfare" I question.

 

I do know some enlisted personnell qualify for food stamps. Here's a link to military pay grades. Pay grades in the military are no secret. As you can see, the monthly pay rate for an E1 (that's airman, or lowest enlisted personnel) is pretty low ($1,399.50/mo), and if living off base (which E1's don't) would not cover basic needs. Note that an O1 (which would be 2nd Lt - for those not military, that's the lowest officer rank) makes almost $3,000/mo the first year.

 

ETA: Does my post carry more weight if I reference dh's military service?

 

 

When you add in families, etc...many DO qualify for welfare. A Captain with 7 dependents and not living on base would qualify for various forms of assistance. My stepdad was a never made it past staff sergeant until I was nearly out of school. We eventually lived off base, there were three of us children, and at one point a disabled aunt and cousin dependent on us. Guess what...we qualified. So are you implying that most of the military are high pay grade with few to no dependents?

 

My stepdad was an airman when he married into a ready made family. When you live at that level, you know plenty of others at that level. You can't pretend they don't exist or are in some sort of minority.

[MeanestMomInMidwest]

When you add in families, etc...many DO qualify for welfare. A Captain with 7 dependents and not living on base would qualify for various forms of assistance. My stepdad was a never made it past staff sergeant until I was nearly out of school. We eventually lived off base, there were three of us children, and at one point a disabled aunt and cousin dependent on us. Guess what...we qualified. So are you implying that most of the military are high pay grade with few to no dependents?

 

My stepdad was an airman when he married into a ready made family. When you live at that level, you know plenty of others at that level. You can't pretend they don't exist or are in some sort of minority.

 

I am in no way implying that "most of the military are high pay grade wtih few to no dependents" and am surprised you could make that leap. I posted the pay scales. I admitted enlisted make low pay. I'm not really sure what you want here.

 

If your hypothetical person is a captain, he or she is an O3. Assuming he/she has been in for more than 4 years, which is a pretty safe assumption in my experience, he/she is making a little over $55,000 per year. Obviously with six children, one spouse cannot contribute to the household finances, and that is a choice. The choice to have a large family certainly plays a part in the financial situation of this hypothetical capt with seven dependents, living off base.

 

As for whether or not "the majority" of military personnel qualify for welfare, well I'm sure the statistics are out there somewhere.

Edited July 26, 2009 by MeanestMomInMidwest

[Hillary in KS]

He has dyslexia? Really??? I never knew that. I honestly just thought he was a few watts short in some areas. Or maybe easily flustered? Dyslexia huh? Good to know.

 

He is not dyslexic. Some psychologist (or something like that) mentioned in an interview that he might be dyslexic. Newspapers took that and ran with it.

[Jumping In Puddles]

Some of us are walking away... just walk away... and take deep, cleansing breaths... :D

 

:D ahhh, much better! :lol:

[mommaduck]

I am in no way implying that "most of the military are high pay grade wtih few to no dependents" and am surprised you could make that leap. I posted the pay scales. I admitted enlisted make low pay. I'm not really sure what you want here.

 

If your hypothetical person is a captain, he or she is an O3. Assuming he/she has been in for more than 4 years, which is a pretty safe assumption in my experience, he/she is making a little over $55,000 per year. Obviously with six children, one spouse cannot contribute to the household finances, and that is a choice. The choice to have a large family certainly plays a part in the financial situation of this hypothetical capt with seven dependents, living off base.

 

As for whether or not "the majority" of military personnel qualify for welfare, well I'm sure the statistics are out there somewhere.

 

 

They may have made the choice to have a fairly normal sized family, but they still qualify.

[astrid]

Good for you, Karen:001_smile: We are grateful for families like yours and your husband's service, even if others aren't.

 

Bless you,

Lisa

 

 

Wow.....are you implying that those of us participating in this thread who are actually happy with our president are not grateful for service?

 

astrid

[TammyinTN]

Ummm.....I'm only assuming here....but after 27 years I am sure your husband has an awesome salary, retirement, health care, etc........

Not taking any sacrifice you may make for the government lightly, but please tell me that you don't think you have made a financial sacrifice to be serving.

 

We definitely made a huge financial sacrifice --we just finished paying back more than 100,000 for him to do his job. No, the military didn't pay this..we did. He can definitely make lots more money on the outside ...but he has this patriotic streak in him that's a mile long and wants desperately to preserve our rights and freedoms.

 

As for all the things people think are free in the military...we pay for them dearly. It's not so wonderful, the system has many things wrong with it.

[TammyinTN]

Okay, there's no good way to say this, so I'm just going to be honest about my feelings: I really tire of the "I'm a military family so I"m entitled to make political statements, as opposed to those who make comments but are not in the military." Perhaps that's not the way you meant the comment above, but to me at least, that's the way it came across.

It's part of why Bush's statement that "If you're not in favor of the war, you're a terrorist." was so offensive.

 

Yeah...I get that you're in the military. Or your dh is. I get it. But how do you know that I'm not from a military family, and have not "put my money where my mouth is" as well? Are you alone entitled to wave the flag? Because again, perhaps that's not what you meant, but it's how it came across to me.

 

And YOU were the one who used the word "Hate" as in "I hate people who say one thing and do another" in the midst of a thread about our present Commander in Chief, so the implication was clearly that you hate Obama. Sorry; I think of "hate" as a very, very strong word, one that is not allowed in my house because of its connotations.

 

All Best,

Astrid

 

How do you know that I was in favor of the war? I knew when this all started what the cost would be human lives, suffering for families and the huge cost to our country.

 

I think that military families have a personal stake in what's going on in our world...I mean we are the ones sending our family members off to do what the commander and chief tell us, right? These men and women are serving and protecting our rights to sit here and discuss these things.

 

I certainly do not hate our President. He just never seems to have anything good to say about our country and that really hurts.

[JudyJudyJudy]

So it's okay to insult people who sound as though they have a speech impediment, thereby insulting those that do, but we dare not reference the typical teenager.

I suspect that George W. Bush would be insulted by your insistence that he has a problem. He has denied having dyslexia, which has been proposed by many as being the reason for his having a problem expressing himself clearly.

 

 

I wonder if his book, The Audacity of Hope, was written for him. Because, if not, he writes just like he speaks (very well, in my opinion). But, without the umms, thankfully.

I seriously doubt that someone other than Obama wrote The Audacity of Hope. I greatly enjoyed reading that book as well as Dreams from My Father. Dreams from My Father was written quite a while before he was well-known publicly.

[JudyJudyJudy]

His speech patterns--especially his propensity to switch around phonemes and difficulty with word retrieval are common in dyslexics. If he has a brother who is officially dyslexic, he may have dyslexic traits but not the full-blown diagnosis, or he may have evolved coping mechanisms that allowed him to function well despite the dyslexia and it was never diagnosed. Whatever his personal diagnosis, the mockers don't make it any easier on people who have similar problems. It would have been a great opportunity to take some of the stigma away from intelligent people who have the same problems, but it's (sinful) human nature to mock instead

It's also human nature to diagnose people whom we've never evaluated even when we're not doctors. ;)

[Colleen]

 

But, you, young lady, have NO right to question motive or sacrifice.

Speaking of ignorance and inexperience, you apparently haven't learned that addressing someone in this manner is unacceptable, useless, and ~ the icing on the cake ~ downright comical.

 

[Colleen]

 

I get that you're in the military. Or your dh is. I get it. But how do you know that I'm not from a military family, and have not "put my money where my mouth is" as well? Are you alone entitled to wave the flag? Because again, perhaps that's not what you meant, but it's how it came across to me.

Yes, it's tiresome. And it's interesting to me, because this mantra ~ "We're more patriotic because we serve in the military" ~ as well as the "Woe is me! how we sacrifice to serve our nation" chorus ~ has never crossed the lips of my father, who served in the Army for 20+ years including tours of duty in Korea and Vietnam. It's not a sentiment shared by my brother, who was in the Air Force for a decade. Or by his son (or his son's wife), who's currently on his second tour of duty in Iraq. They recognize that they made a choice to join the military, and they're grateful for the opportunities extended to them by that service. Does it have risks? Does it require some sacrifices? You bet. That's life ~ for people in most walks of life, many of whom don't get the benefits offered to military personnel.

 

[Annabel Lee]

I can sympathize. I felt that way for all 8 years Bush was in office and although I am happy (thrilled, in fact!) with Obama, I hope for a leader in the future that ALL Americans can stand behind! I don't know if that can ever happen, are we all just too different? I guess we'll never be able to make everyone happy and just go with the ebb and flow of politics - sometimes your guy wins, sometimes my guy wins. :(

 

If all the politics were stripped away, I think most Americans agree on a basic level regarding how our country should be run, what life should be like for citizens, etc. It's these politicians who are so polarized against one another, and our choices are either here or there, no middle ground. I think politicians are in a fight for power against one another. Power that should be in OUR hands, not theirs.

 

I DO believe that Americans, esp. young ones, should learn what their freedoms are and why their forefathers fought so hard for them before turning them over in the name of security, the greater good, or what have you.

[Annabel Lee]

Ummm.....I'm only assuming here....but after 27 years I am sure your husband has an awesome salary, retirement, health care, etc........

Not taking any sacrifice you may make for the government lightly, but please tell me that you don't think you have made a financial sacrifice to be serving.

 

I know others have already commented on this, but I can't help but add my own personal experience here. My dh was military for over 10 years. When we got married, there was not base housing available (waitlist) so we had to get an apartment off-base. They did not increase his pay for having dependents or for BAH (to help pay for off-post housing, since base pay could not cover this plus basic necessities). He was getting $1,100/mo. and our rent was $600. That didn't leave much to live off of.

 

That was just the first of many bad experiences we had with the Army. People are not lying when they say that the military healthcare is bad. Some military hospitals and/or Dr.'s are the exception to this, but as a rule, it is pretty bad. The sheer conditions in which I birthed my middle son were terrible, and my youngest was on the brink of death when they sent him home with me 4 days after birth. His only salvation was a breastfeeding consultant who talked me through procedures over the phone in the middle of the night. The military Dr.'s told me everything was fine, not to worry, etc. Then he peed orange dusty stuff. He was severely dehydrated. The story is long so I'll skip parts here. Turned out his tongue was tied and he couldn't suckle properly from anything - breast or bottle. They refused to cut it loose. I took him to every different Dr. in that place, incl. their oral surgeon. Same reply. My poor baby never got a full belly for his first 6 months. He could only drink what was manually injected or squirted into his mouth. I sat feeding him all. the. time. Since I wasn't going to let him become dehydrated and fed him in the only way he could eat, he was doing "OK" in their "expert" opinion.

 

As soon as we moved to my Dh's next duty assignment the Dr.'s there were shocked and appalled that this had been allowed to go on for so long and said that they un-tie tongues right at birth. They scheduled a surgery immediately.

 

I've delved into much more detail than I meant to, and I've rabbit-trailed. I want to add that we qualified for WIC the ENTIRE 10+ years dh was military, even after moving up the ranks.

 

Veteran care is not what they promise soldiers, either. They send you off to war, ruin your mind and body, promise to be there to help cover any needed medical care or therapy and then try to find every single excuse not to cover it. My dh's claim was "being processed" for over 3 years while he was in pain daily. Of course he went to a civilian Dr. & paid out-of-pocket in the meantime b/c the condition couldn't be ignored. After many delays, they now say they have no record of him being in Somolia at all. :confused::001_huh: They say they need live witnesses to attest to the incident he wrote the claim for. Too bad those 2 guys committed suicide b/c they couldn't live with what they had seen. So no compensation for PTSD, busted knees and back. IMO our present-day army chews you up and spits you out.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

ETA: Oh, and that GI Bill... it was far less back when my dh signed up than it is now. There were no 'sign-up bonuses' then either. The GI Bill has a use-it-or-lose-it date, an expiration date sort of. If they never allow you time away from work, training, the field, deployments, etc. because they own you, you don't get to use that GI Bill. Some higher-ups that are 'old-school' army can be ruthless about being at work 19 hours per day for weeks at a time. Time off, in my dh's case under that particular leader for 2 years, was spent in mandatory participation in unit fund-raising activities. We gave up alot, and the financial bit - big as it was - was only the beginning.

Edited July 26, 2009 by Annabel Lee