Q's about getting references from last employer at a silly preschool.

[Night Elf]

Please forgive me for the long chatty details, but I am seriously asking for opinions and help here. :bigear:

 

I worked at a preschool for 5 months, from August into January, and the management loved me. I was a super great employee and I loved my babies and working with them. I did have difficulties with how things were done by the management, most especially their treatment of the employees and their expectations for the students.

 

They prided themselves on being a prep school for kids to be ready to enter Kindergarten. I had to do lesson plans for my 1 year old babies, keeping them on a strict schedule that included time periods for language skills, journal writing (scribbling in a personal journal), arts and crafts, Spanish, and circle time where they were expected to sit on the circle rug and participate in circle time for 20 to 30 minutes.

 

I'll be honest here. I turned in a resignation because I felt in over my head. The month before, they made me lead teacher against my feelings. However, they asked me to stay and agreed to reduce my hours so I could leave by 1:00pm to get home to homeschool my kids. I worked full-time through that 2-week period that would have been my resignation time. Two days after I started working only until 1:00pm, I didn't feel like everything was good like it had been before. They expected me to continue having lead teacher responsibilities.

 

It was much more stressful than I really wanted my job to be and I felt like I was in over my head. Even working out my 2-week period, they only brought one woman in to spend time in my classroom as a possible head teacher. But when she left, they told me they didn't like her because she seemed 'weird'. And mine was not the only classroom that had been waiting for another teacher for more than a few months.

 

Ok, bottom line: due to extreme stress at work and at home, I ended up quitting one day, the 2 days after I had been working until 1:00pm. I left at the end of my shift and told them I wouldn't be back. They were not happy to say the least. A few months later in April, I sent an email to the owner/manager that was an apology and a note about how I was recently diagnosed with bipolar. They had had other employees just walk out and had wondered why. I didn't want to be seen as someone who disliked the school as I really did think that overall the school was a nice place for kids, despite their silly expectations. Later, I was regretful I mentioned my bipolar at all!

 

So now I'm wanting to look for work again. How do I handle completing applications? What do I say about working at my last job for only 5 months? What if my previous school mentions I quit without notice or my bipolar? Can they do that? What information can they legally give out to a new job calling for references? How do I give a good interview without dissing my previous employer which I think would be a huge mistake?

[Orthodox6]

'Scuse me, but what a nonsensical preschool !

 

Legally, nobody can discuss any health issues about a former employee. [Think major law suit !] That is no guarantee that they will not do so, though, and hope that you don't figure it out.

 

They safely can state that you left without notice, I believe.

 

Not fully sure, but I think that if I were in your place, I would include this brief job on my resume, without listing the name of the school. I would try to obtain interviews without references from the preschool staff/administration.

 

Once at an interview, however, I would bring up the preschool job to buttress your skill set. I would mention that you were promoted to a position for which you were not quite ready to fill, at the same time as you were diagnosed with a health situation -- a health situation that now is under control and which does not impact your job performance. (and for your own sake, I hope you are working with a good mental health care professional !) The combined stress led to your abrupt resignation.

 

As an employer, I would give you points for such honesty, and would not hold the experience negatively against you.

 

Public knowledge level about bipolar disorder ranges from knowledgeable to downright crackpot. Unless someone has close hand knowledge of the condition, either personally, or from close knowledge of someone else with it, revealing the condition unnecessarily can backfire. I admit that I would be reluctant to hire someone to work directly with children unless I knew for certain that the bipolar employee was complying with treatment, and was stable as a result of treatment. But I'm among that smaller segment of the population who know some bipolar people well, and know that it would not be right to discriminate against them.

 

I hope you find a job that you really like !

[Perry]

Legally, nobody can discuss any health issues about a former employee. [Think major law suit !] That is no guarantee that they will not do so, though, and hope that you don't figure it out.

 

I don't know much about law, but I think HIPAA only applies to medical entities. I don't think employers have any duty to maintain confidentiality.

 

I searched and found this:

 

There is understandable confusion among employers about the various laws affecting workplace confidentiality. This article will attempt to clarify the obligations of employers when dealing with employee medical information. In addition, a helpful reference chart comparing the confidentiality requirements of the various federal laws can be accessed by clicking here.

 

HIPAA

Although the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) became law in 1996, Title II, which contains the Privacy Rule, did not take effect until April 14, 2003. The Privacy Rule establishes regulations for the use and disclosure of Protected Health Information (PHI), which generally includes any part of a patient's medical record. However, the HIPAA Privacy Rule applies only to "covered entities," defined as a health plan, a health care clearinghouse, or a health care provider. Importantly, the definition of "covered entities" does not include employers unless the employer is the administrator of a group health plan.

 

[SherryTX]

Employers would be out of their mind to mention that you were diagnosed with bipolar disorder. But of course, you cannot guarantee that someone won't be smart about it. Employers can and have been sued based on things they have said in reference checks (but also things that were NOT stated in some cases). That is why so many companies today both large and small will only verify title, salary, and dates of employment.

 

Do you have any co-workers that you could use as a reference? Also - you can put on the application that they do not have permission to contact the last employer, many application forms have that question nowadays. I would not state that the co-worker was a supervisor, but that they can attest to your work.

 

Explain why you left, but I would not go into detail about your condition. But, yes they usually do appreciate honesty. How many other jobs have you had in the past few years? Is this the shortest one on your resume in the past few years? Depending on your overall history and the other references you can provide, this may not be an issue.

 

One thing I suggest is to contact all the people you plan on providing for references. You want to do this for two reasons: 1. to make sure your contact info is up to date 2. give them a head's up someone may be calling. I have always appreciated that when I am given a head's up, and I even have a chance to ask what type of position they are applying for so if they were a super worker, I can make sure I point out really relevant areas they excelled at.

 

You also could ask for a letter of recommendation from your other employers. These you can send in with your application. Of course they will still want to check references, but it can give you a strong case from the get go that you have a good work ethic and past employers valued you.

[Night Elf]

Not fully sure, but I think that if I were in your place, I would include this brief job on my resume, without listing the name of the school. I would try to obtain interviews without references from the preschool staff/administration.

 

You don't think it would look strange to purposefully leave off the name of my last employer?

 

Once at an interview, however, I would bring up the preschool job to buttress your skill set. I would mention that you were promoted to a position for which you were not quite ready to fill, at the same time as you were diagnosed with a health situation -- a health situation that now is under control and which does not impact your job performance. (and for your own sake, I hope you are working with a good mental health care professional !) The combined stress led to your abrupt resignation.

 

I am definitely under treatment and my bipolar doesn't include manic episodes that are harmful to me or those around me. Mostly, I am full of energy and have bursts of doing so much that I tire myself out and then crash. But I am very good at working through my depression and not letting it affect my daily functioning. You don't think admitting I was not ready for a promotion would make me look unappealing as a new employee?

 

I'd love to work in a daycare center that was big on nurturing and play and no academic schedules for babies. I'm really good at playing, singing, exploring mediums like play dough, paint, glue, crayons, etc. I think they are great for toddlers to experiment with, but I really hate having a guideline for a finished product!

[Perry]

Employers would be out of their mind to mention that you were diagnosed with bipolar disorder. But of course, you cannot guarantee that someone won't be smart about it. Employers can and have been sued based on things they have said in reference checks (but also things that were NOT stated in some cases).

 

Do they win those lawsuits? I'm not sure why it would be wrong, if the medical condition interfered with the employee's ability to do the job.

 

Night Elf, I'm just talking in generalities- I'm not saying the employer should say anything in your case at all. Just wondering about the legal issues.

[Night Elf]

Do you have any co-workers that you could use as a reference? Also - you can put on the application that they do not have permission to contact the last employer, many application forms have that question nowadays. I would not state that the co-worker was a supervisor, but that they can attest to your work.

 

I worked well with a couple of people but I haven't had any contact with them since I left the job. I wouldn't know how to get in touch with them except through the preschool and I'm not entirely comfortable doing that.

 

To be honest, I don't have any personal references. I got my last job without one but on impressing them in the interview. I only know one person that is not family but she is so extremely busy that even I can't get ahold of her.

 

I worked from 1994 - 2001 and then became a stay-home mom. Working at this preschool was my first attempt at going back to work in 7 years.

[Orthodox6]

I've been thinking about that point. Let me emend my post to suggest citing the previous job (with school name) -- but placing at the bottom of your resume the exact words: REFERENCES AVAILABLE UPON REQUEST.

(then have references from elsewhere than that job that you can use)

 

My logic is that admitting that you did not feel ready for a promotion, AND tying that admission directly to the simultaneous event of receiving diagnosis of a health condition -- this makes clear that you were ill at the time of promotion, and not yet fully aware of why. This also frees you from any temptation to discuss the negative "quirks" pertaining to the school's program and/or management.

 

Also, in case I'm writing confusedly -- There is no need to state outright what the health condition is. It does not affect your performance (because it is under a doctor's care). It could have been a sluggish thyroid, for example, and have affected you just the same way ! As I noted before, public awareness can be abysmally poor, so mentioning it really could backfire most unfairly.

 

That seem more on track?

 

You don't think it would look strange to purposefully leave off the name of my last employer?

 

 

 

I am definitely under treatment and my bipolar doesn't include manic episodes that are harmful to me or those around me. Mostly, I am full of energy and have bursts of doing so much that I tire myself out and then crash. But I am very good at working through my depression and not letting it affect my daily functioning. You don't think admitting I was not ready for a promotion would make me look unappealing as a new employee?

 

I'd love to work in a daycare center that was big on nurturing and play and no academic schedules for babies. I'm really good at playing, singing, exploring mediums like play dough, paint, glue, crayons, etc. I think they are great for toddlers to experiment with, but I really hate having a guideline for a finished product!

Edited June 27, 2009 by Orthodox6

[Orthodox6]

Check the up-to-date books on resumes at the bookstores, and research the Internet for articles about SAHMs returning to the workforce after a few years off. There will be chapters/articles with current advice for how to craft a winner resume.

 

Personal references do not have to be job-related, if there are no jobs to cite ! Your priest/minister (if you have one, and he knows you well), a former professor (if you are not gone from school too long), a sports-team coach for one of your children (if there has been continuity), any place where you have done volunteer work, . . . etc.

 

I worked well with a couple of people but I haven't had any contact with them since I left the job. I wouldn't know how to get in touch with them except through the preschool and I'm not entirely comfortable doing that.

 

To be honest, I don't have any personal references. I got my last job without one but on impressing them in the interview. I only know one person that is not family but she is so extremely busy that even I can't get ahold of her.

 

I worked from 1994 - 2001 and then became a stay-home mom. Working at this preschool was my first attempt at going back to work in 7 years.

[amy g.]

I have used parents of the kids that I taught as references before.

 

If that wouldn't work, I would leave that job completely off of my resume.

[OHGrandma]

I would say nothing about your bipolar, especially since you have it controlled.

List the previous place of employment.

Be very specific about expressing what kind of job you want. If asked why you left the previous job, you explain exactly what you want, and tell them the previous employer had expectations that did not align with your philosophy on taking care of small children, and give a couple specific examples. Don't let it sound like a 'right' vs 'wrong' way of taking care of children, it just didn't fit your style. Tell them what your style is!

Ask what the philosophy is at the new daycare, like the old, or more in line with how you would do it?

 

Before you list anyone as a reference, you should talk to them and ask if they would give you a favorable referral. Talk to your former manager, maybe their overall impression they have of you is that you are wonderful with children. Or maybe they're irritated with how you left. Decide if they would be a good reference.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Unless you are applying for another school that thinks that 1 year olds were developmentally ready for academic study, I don't see why yoiu can't simply say, "The school expected academic study from 1 year olds. I did my best to teach according to their expectations but found that I could not do so. I did give notice but the school talked me into staying longer while they looked for someone to fill my position. The combination of being in a job that was stressful and which exacerbated a health condition I had at the time, and the fact that I did not see much progress on the school's part in hiring someone new, led me to leave the job without a replacement. While I am not qualified to teach 1 year olds academic subjects, I am eminently qualified to teach young children more developmentally appropriate skills."

[EKS]

I worked from 1994 - 2001 and then became a stay-home mom. Working at this preschool was my first attempt at going back to work in 7 years.

 

Maybe this could be a 2nd first attempt (and not mention the preschool experience at all)?

[Orthodox6]

Unless you are applying for another school that thinks that 1 year olds were developmentally ready for academic study, I don't see why yoiu can't simply say, "The school expected academic study from 1 year olds. I did my best to teach according to their expectations but found that I could not do so. I did give notice but the school talked me into staying longer while they looked for someone to fill my position. The combination of being in a job that was stressful and which exacerbated a health condition I had at the time, and the fact that I did not see much progress on the school's part in hiring someone new, led me to leave the job without a replacement. While I am not qualified to teach 1 year olds academic subjects, I am eminently qualified to teach young children more developmentally appropriate skills."

 

:iagree: This acknowledges that it was a "bad fit" job.

[Night Elf]

Unless you are applying for another school that thinks that 1 year olds were developmentally ready for academic study, I don't see why yoiu can't simply say, "The school expected academic study from 1 year olds. I did my best to teach according to their expectations but found that I could not do so. I did give notice but the school talked me into staying longer while they looked for someone to fill my position. The combination of being in a job that was stressful and which exacerbated a health condition I had at the time, and the fact that I did not see much progress on the school's part in hiring someone new, led me to leave the job without a replacement. While I am not qualified to teach 1 year olds academic subjects, I am eminently qualified to teach young children more developmentally appropriate skills."

 

That is a great idea. I'm going to purposefully apply to places that I think are not academically bent. I had my oldest dd in a couple of centers when she was a toddler and they were so loving and cozy, just like being taken care of by a relative.