Have little clue about CE, can you help?

[Healthy Skeptic]

I have 4 kids and do Rod & Staff. I do like it, but feel I am missing something.

 

A friend mentioned C.E. (Classical Education) to me a few weeks ago and then today I got a mag in the mail with C.E. material in it.

 

So here I am.

 

Can you explain why I should switch to this. I am afraid it may be too much work and that is a deterrent for me. But I so want my kids to be logical reasoners.

 

Thanks for any and all help.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Healthy Skeptic

[Brindee]

I don't know what CE is???

[Healthy Skeptic]

Sorry CE Classical Education, was trying to just abbreviate it.

[phathui5]

We do a combination of CLE (Christian Light Education, kinda like R&S) and WTM (well trained mind).

 

I recommend reading the book The Well Trained Mind to learn more about it.

[Julie in Austin]

I use R & S grammar, and so I think R & S has its place, but I think a classical approach to (especially) history is much, much richer than what you would get from any textbook. You should read _The Well-Trained Mind_, and, even if you don't want to implement the entire thing, you might want to consider using it for history. SOTW (their elementary history program) is so incredibly excellent. . .

[Healthy Skeptic]

Thanks for your responding. I think I really like the rhetoric part the most. But my kids are 8 and under.

 

I do not do history at all right now. Why do you think it is important?

 

Is this book the WTM on CD. I just lack time to read yet another book. That is why I am here posting. :tongue_smilie:

[Mama Bear]

...as far as I know. I've owned three copies -- so far (horrible coffee accident and later lost track of it in a "move", just plain wore one out...)

 

This one you sorta need to take to bed with you, with a stack of post-its, perhaps post-it tabs, a highlighter, maybe a laptop. If you've never looked at Classical Ed before, TWTM may be a quantum shift for you. Or not. When I first read the book, more than seven years ago, I felt a lightbulb go on in my head. I've since tweaked and torqued and made those suggestions into something that (most of the time) flows really well for my group. I re-read portions at least yearly, just to help remind me why we're doing this, what we're about, where we're going.

 

Our local library has a couple of copies. :) My personal copy can no longer be loaned out -- it's just too heavily tabbed to be anything other than scary looking. :D

 

Welcome, and best to you.

[Mama Bear]

History is important because it tells us who we are. It informs our choices, even for the littlest ones. When my second born was doing first grade, she and her thrid grade brother were wending through discussions on Ancient Greece. In particular, I'd asked her to say something about the differences between Athens and Sparta (she was narrating back the story I'd just read to them). At six, she spoke quite briefly about the two cities having different values -- one placed a premium on knowing things because then you could tell if someone was going to take advantage of you or try and steal your stuff. The other placed the highest importance on brute force. Her conclusion? That a civilization cannot survive if it's members can't discern what is true, and brute force is rarely enough to completely conquer anyone. Granted, her terms were very basic. (At six, what would one expect?) But she was able to hear this and speak confidently about what she understood of it.

 

Throughout our history studies, I've come to expect spaces of this, even from the little ones in the group. They do not always grasp principles so clearly :tongue_smilie: but they do, now, have some fleshed out idea of what place they occupy in the world. The WHOLE world, not just this part of this country. They listen and ask questions about the WHOLE world, in part because I try to encourage that kind of conversation and curiosity, and in part because I've made sure they have the tools (knowledge, vocab., maps, timelines) required to even begin that kind of conversation -- tools available to them because we've studied history and continue to do so.

 

Additionally, we've found that even recreational reading often needs this kind of foundation laid. How sad to read The Bartimaeus Trilogy and not know who William Gladstone was or why a person might have strong opinions about him. In the context of these books, it slows down comprehension of the story and therefore one's enjoyment of it.

 

Hope that helps some. :)

[Healthy Skeptic]

Wow mamabear, I don't even know who William Bradly is. :001_huh: Shame as I went to public school and remember very little about history.

 

As for the history. My worry is the lies that tend to be weaved in. Where do you get your history from?

 

I want a history that is grounded in truth not shifted due to propaganda. I want the history that tells of the miracles that occur ed in the lives of those who served our country as well as others. I desire the truth to be told in whole not in part, just cause some wished to indoctrinate the pagan, thus becoming a chameleon of sorts.

 

Does this make sense to you? I think I have confused myself. :D

 

By the way thanks so much for answering my questions. I think I am off to ebay to buy that book. I will think a bit more though. Not sure how I will find the time to read it. :001_huh:

[brehon]

Wow mamabear, I don't even know who William Bradly is. :001_huh: Shame as I went to public school and remember very little about history.

 

As for the history. My worry is the lies that tend to be weaved in. Where do you get your history from?

 

I want a history that is grounded in truth not shifted due to propaganda. I want the history that tells of the miracles that occur ed in the lives of those who served our country as well as others. I desire the truth to be told in whole not in part, just cause some wished to indoctrinate the pagan, thus becoming a chameleon of sorts.

 

Does this make sense to you? I think I have confused myself. :D

 

By the way thanks so much for answering my questions. I think I am off to ebay to buy that book. I will think a bit more though. Not sure how I will find the time to read it. :001_huh:

 

 

I agree with the others. [What a wonderful post, Mama Bear!] The thing to remember about history is that there are multiple viewpoints about what happened, who was right or wrong, and the ramifications of various thoughts, ideas, and actions. In other words, a good historian (and student of history :)) will look at various sources (preferably primary sources) to form a picture of what happened.

 

There are any number of different history programs some of which are very heavily providential, some of which try to present more than one "side", and everywhere in between. I use Story of the World with my kids (also 8 and under). I find it's a great introduction to the events which shaped the world we live in today. It's not "complete" in that not every single event/war/invention/historical person/etc is talked about; but, it's a great narrative for young kids to begin to see connections. We'll hit history probably 2 more times as they get older and each time I'll teach more in-depth.

 

Now, all that being said, if you're interested in classical education, I suggest that you read not only The Well Trained Mind, but also other books about classical education: The Latin Centered Curriculum by Andrew Campbell (which is set up along the same lines as WTM in that it explains the philosophy of traditional classical education and then lists various curricula and schedules one could consider using); Climbing Parnassus by (blast it all, the name escapes me). The latter book is not a how-to like the previous books are; it is rather an explanation and defense of traditional classical education. Traditional classical education (in a nutshell) does not place quite the same emphasis on history that neo-classical education does. Both philosophies will, IMO, truly educate both you and your children.

 

There are any number of resources you can read and study to help you make your decision. Take your time and study them. If you decide to change some things around, great. If you decide that what you're doing is working well and you and your children are generally happy, great. Have fun with your studies.

[OnTheBrink]

Wow mamabear, I don't even know who William Bradly is. :001_huh: Shame as I went to public school and remember very little about history.

 

As for the history. My worry is the lies that tend to be weaved in. Where do you get your history from?

 

I want a history that is grounded in truth not shifted due to propaganda. I want the history that tells of the miracles that occur ed in the lives of those who served our country as well as others. I desire the truth to be told in whole not in part, just cause some wished to indoctrinate the pagan, thus becoming a chameleon of sorts.

 

Does this make sense to you? I think I have confused myself. :D

 

By the way thanks so much for answering my questions. I think I am off to ebay to buy that book. I will think a bit more though. Not sure how I will find the time to read it. :001_huh:

 

The "problem" with history is that it's subjective. If you study more than just the absolute facts (this happened on this date; this person was there, etc), the you're going to encounter subjective perspectives. IMO, either using actual sources (biographies, etc), or finding materials that align with your world view and how you want your children to learn history might be your best bet.

[kalanamak]

Thanks for your responding. I think I really like the rhetoric part the most. But my kids are 8 and under.

 

I do not do history at all right now. Why do you think it is important?

 

Is this book the WTM on CD. I just lack time to read yet another book. That is why I am here posting. :tongue_smilie:

 

Much of WTM is plans and resources. The nuts and bolts of "how to do it" is really NOT that long. If your kids are all under 8, you need only read the preschool and grammar ages, along with the introductory philosophy. It is NOT dense reading. If you just want the "why", read the introductory paragraphs in each topic in the grammar school section (LA, math, Latin). Your library should have it. It will take you all of an hour to flip through. I promise.

 

I am doing history. My son loves it and gets such a kick out of bumping into something we have mentioned. The other day he saw a rendition of the wolf sucking the twin boys and he started squealing about it.

[Healthy Skeptic]

Thanks guys. I will check out Story of the World.