Jann, Thank you so much for a very thorough reply to my rather disjointed question! I have a file where I've put many, many of your Lial's posts over the last couple of years, so I went back and looked it over carefully. I didn't remember I'd saved as much as I had! There were some "concern" posts that I'd copied there, too, so I pulled them out and pasted them in below. If you have time (someday...no rush) would you mind addressing these? They would certainly be concerns for my dd. Meanwhile, I wish I could send you some flowers, or better yet, chocolates! You've spent so much time answering math questions on this board. Thank you!!! :thumbup: Now, I'm not a "math" person, but sometimes, to me, the explanations are definitely written at the *college* level rather than the high school level My oldest dd did fairly well with Introductory Algebra, but she got really bogged down with the Intermediate Algebra text. The worked problems are not supported with enough lead in information nor explantion. It's a college text written on a more "adult" level than the typical high school text. It was overwhelming for my mathy son for Algebra 1 in 8th grade

There is a video component, audio tapes, workbook and textbook. Ds is enjoying it, and I think he's learned a fair amount. He's doing this as a distance ed. course through the U of M, so I don't know the cost involved for the materials (state pays for them--gotta love it!). However, because it airs on PBS, you can catch the videos on TV, or better yet, ds watches them on the internet for free. You can see them here . You may also be able to find some of the materials through your library system. Just an idea! Oh, and just so you know, the videos are like a soap-opera program. I was a little concerned with what the content might be...but they're fine. Ds laughs at them--they are very "dramatic". But nothing like regular daytime TV soaps!!

Jann, I am hijacking here because I've been wondering about Abeka for a while. My dd has been using Abeka for elementary math, going into 6th grade next year. She is not mathy at all, not intuitive in the least. She struggles with anything that isn't spelled out to the last dot--if it varies from the algorithm, forget it. And forget about applying anything she's learned, either. She's kind of a weird learner; I don't blame Abeka, though it certainly hasn't helped her understand anything. She can "do the math", but that's about it. I want to avoid Abeka for 7th grade and up, but I've struggled with what to do. My other kids are in Saxon, and while I certainly don't love it, it is very self-contained--something I need. But I do NOT want to put her in it; she's not going to be able to follow the instruction there at ALL. I've thought a lot about Lial's, but I wonder what the drawbacks are? Teacher intensive? What? And if not Lial's, what else? I've thought about Chalkdust or some other program that involves a teacher presentation and help service, but they are so pricey. I think I'm rambling now. I know Lial's has the DVT's...I'm just hesitant, and not really sure why. Can you make anything of this? I hope so. :confused:

Oooh! Thanks for looking it up!

We're eating our first jar of Nutella right now. We have a good friend who is a German exchange student and he eats it and gave us this jar. His parents sent us a large box of candy at Easter, and it turns out that hazelnut must be an extremely popular German flavor, because almost every piece of candy in the box (and it was a HUGE box--perhaps 10 POUNDS of candy!!) tasted distinctly like Nutella. I used to think I liked hazelnut, but after eating that candy I began to get a little nauseous at the taste of hazelnut. It was like this subtle taste that infiltrated everything! But I don't mind a little Nutella now and then. Have you tried Nutella smores? Mmmm!

There is a raptor center near here that we'll be calling as soon as they open--I'm guessing Monday morning. We certainly don't want to injure him him further or interfere with normal processes. We found a fledgling bald eagle out of the nest a couple of years ago, and dealt with them then. Thanks for the info--that beak is pretty scary. After reading up on them, no one will have to convince me to stay away from it! Actually, I just looked up the raptor center at the U of M and will be calling them right away this morning. And for those of you who may have concerns about us handling the owl, I did read the U of M's notes on the subject and we've really done everything correctly. We're doing our best for the owl--unless it would have been better to leave it subject to predation. That is the way of nature, after all! Just wanted to reassure you.

Hey...I didn't think of that! I'll put some in the OP. Thanks!

Seriously. It's injured or something--cannot fly at all. I don't think it's a fledgling; it looks like full size. Anyway, it's sitting in a dog kennel in our woods right now. We didn't want to stress him any more by moving him out of the woods, but also didn't want him to get swallowed by a fox. We have a friend in the DNR; guess we'll wait to see how he advises us in the a.m. But I must say it's strange to be face to face with a big owl. Their eyes are amazing. And here are a few pictures! Or on second thought, is he just a screech owl? I kept thinking he looked too big to be a screech; but now looking again, I don't know. What do you think? UPDATE: The U of M Raptor Center is sending someone to look in on the owl this morning!

Haha....yes, I've said those same words before!! My good friend let me in on the secret. Isn't it fun? Unfortunately, Goodwill stores vary and right now we live near a dud. Happy shopping! But be warned: all department stores will be difficult to handle now. The thought goes: "What?! They want $35 for that? I could get one of those at Goodwill for $3!" I'm ruined on mall shopping forever.

Left the house at 7, got home at 1. That's a long morning to devote to a test! Lucky for me there was a Super WalMart and Target about 5 minutes away. :) Ds practiced essays this last week, and it turned out that the essay question on the exam was extremely similar to one he did yesterday--about as good as you could hope for, I guess! The only problem is that the essay he wrote yesterday wasn't that great; I hope he remembered all the great tips for improvement I gave him....:tongue_smilie: Guess we'll find out in 6 weeks!

My thoughts here, too.

We are too. Or should I say "he is"? :) It's such an unbelievably loooong test. I hate it.

My answer is not too helpful because I'd say it depends! If you have a textbook that correlates well with the AP course description then your dc would naturally cover the same material that's on the test and it's that much easier to prepare for the exam. If your books don't correlate, then you'd certainly need to cover the material that isn't there. You can call that teaching to the test or you can look at it as covering good material that you might not have otherwise covered. Now, a different question might be, "What if my child wants to go really in depth on XYZ topic, and skim lightly over some other areas?" That's more when your child has to make a tough choice: to study what she wants, or to prepare for the exam. At any rate, you still need to plan to spend a week or two prior to the exam working through an AP prep book for your subject (unless you plan to work through it all year alongside your texts.) The student must really be familiar with the test format, types of questions, etc. For the history exams, this is especially critical because they have essay questions and document based questions that (IMO) need lots of practice beforehand so the student knows how to approach these. The AP website also provides old exams, with answer keys, and with sample student answers that have been critiqued. If you look at the section called "Courses and Exams" you'll find links to many helpful areas, including exam questions, teacher resources, and course descriptions--which are detailed outlines of what the test will cover.

Yes, LaJuana and Jan, appreciated the link!!

Oh Sharon, that's fantastic news! Know how much he's been hoping for this. Congrats!!!!!

Two things: First, to answer your question. Ds used biology alone (not advanced) and a test prep book (REA) to prepare for the CLEP. As someone mentioned, there are things on the CLEP not covered in the biology book, but with a little extra study on those things ds did fine--I think an 85 (which is not 85%--they are scored weird. Many schools accept a score of 50 for full credit, just for comparison.) The REA book is written by a conservative homeschooling mother, btw. Ds also did chem/adv chem and took the AP exam, scoring a 5 (highest score). The books prepared him very well for this exam, though he did also use a study guide and practice with old tests. But they didn't fill in missing knowledge, just helped him practice. Second, Dr. Wile does not specifically promote his books as AP prep. He does say, "When added to that first-year course, this course 'fills in the gaps,' giving the student the equivalent of the first year of college chemistry. You might have heard this kind of course called an 'advanced placement' or 'AP' course." So while they may cover an amount of material that could be considered college-equivalent, they are not necessarily AP specific, nor would the student necessarily be prepared for the AP test after completing them. Chemistry worked out well for us; many have insisted that biology does not. CLEP's are a really quite a different thing, though. Ohh, after posting went and double checked the Apologia site and did find this: "Combined with Exploring Creation With Biology , [Advanced Biology] gives the student the equivalent of a university biology course. In other words, these two courses together cover the entire "advanced placement" (AP) curriculum" Hmm. Well, I guess I can eat my previous words! I would email Dr. Wile and ask if he's compared the books to the AP course outline or had specific testimony from kids who have successfully used the books as AP prep. You can certainly look at the table of contents of the books and compare for yourself, but he's making a pretty strong statement there and I'd think he must have (or needs to) have a solid reason for saying it. I'd ask him to defend it!!

Us too. And while ds's writing may have begun in a formulaic manner, it has taken off wonderfully from there. But this is kind of hijacking from the OP.

Pictures of my yard on Saturday, April 26, 2008 Yesterday there was bright green grass and tiny leaves just opening on my bushes. Today, wind howling madly; 30 degrees/16 with wind chill. Winter…GO AWAY.

Since it's raining/snowing here (WHAT!?!) I want something warm and yummy...and I have okra in the freezer! Some Cajun gal give me a good'un! Looking forward to super-yummy replies!

Gwen, Thanks for the Stanford link. That does sum it all up very well!

Hey, that's a nicely organized list! Your chart sounds like a neat thing. I guess I didn't notice the differences in requirements for social science, math or hard sciences, because that's what I expect my kids to do anyway. But I had noticed the language requirement. That's sure another thing to keep in mind. Horse and water--yeah, totally. You can also lead a horse to water, have him drink it, and still not get into one of "the" schools. But that's not the whole goal for us, anyway. Being prepared to excel anywhere is smart though!

From a post by RoughCollie: "I don't know exactly what college admissions people want to see on a homeschool transcript. I plan to use a variety of standardized tests to prove that my kids know the material: SAT, SAT subject tests, PSAT, AP, along with community college courses (if the schools here permit it)." From someone that's been reading tons of admissions webpages at top universities, I'll tell you what I think about this. I'm sure people who actually have students admitted can tell you more! But these are my impressions. --They want to see students who have depth, or specialization. For so long we've heard about "well rounded" students. The fact is that at this point in the game, almost all students applying to top schools have lots of AP, great test scores, etc., etc. Sadly, it is so commonplace that these students do not stand out. They're merely part of a very well-qualified crowd. Colleges create a class of "diverse individuals". They want people who can bring something to the table that maybe others cannot, people who are unique in some way. --They want testimony for homeschoolers ability. Certainly AP/SATII, SAT, etc., scores can provide evidence of a student's abilities, but they also really want some objective references from teachers or others the student has worked closely with. That said, this is not necessarily true of state universities or even mid-range private universities. At most state schools you CAN stand out with great test scores. And they generally care little to none about SATII. BUT, considering the path my ds has traveled in his college plans--from great state U, to US military academy, to top engineering schools, I wish I'd done a few things differently. If you think there's a chance of your dc going to an elite school, in other words, if they have the capability to go (drive, aptitude), then make plans to prepare for that possibility. I would have had ds take SATII tests for major subject areas--history, math, science, possibly language. Many schools don't require more than two. But some do, and now it would be a pain for ds to prepare for a test in American history which he studied in the 9th grade. I also think (easier said than done) that I would have allowed him to work more deeply in areas that were meaningful to him, rather than pushing him to fulfill certain course requirements. They all say, "4 years math, 4 years English" blah, blah, blah. But I would have risked leaving off something to let him really shine in his special area. The very best schools, I think, want that type of student. Of course some schools, like one I recently read about, insist on everything being "by the book". This school required that every student must have a transcript/GPA and class rank. Okay, I can provide a transcript, for what it's worth, but what does class rank in a homeschool really mean? I can write down 1/1. And I think that will satisfy them! But schools that function that way are not necessarily where I want my kids to go. Did this come across as a rant? I hope not. But it did get a little long, and was probably not what RoughCollie even had in mind in her post. But I read so much of this stuff lately, just thought I put my oar in--FWIW!

We're trying the oatmeal/bread flour combo. I'll let you know!

I do have bread flour and whole wheat flour. We're making choc. chip cookies. I have no clue! And for those who might wonder, no I will NOT be consuming these products which contain sugar and refined carbohydrates! Still finishing Good Calories, Bad Calories and finding it more compelling with each chapter. Slowly nearing the end...!

I think that is my nature! There was a great post I read yesterday in a Teaching Textbooks math thread about how people's kids are at such different places; there are lots of different kinds of kids. Sometimes it may seem that the uber-advanced are the only ones being discussed here, but they aren't the only ones out there! I didn't even attempt to read TWTM until we'd been h.s.'ing for a while. I knew I couldn't do all that--or even part of--the way it was described. I mainly use the book as a reference, for getting ideas or setting goals--for seeing the possibilities. This board has so many great contributors, and you'll find any amount of encouragement, advice, opinion and sympathy here. It's a wonderful place to hang out and get inspired--just ignore the posts that look scary! Oh, and here's the quote from Marie on the TT thread: "... there ARE quite a few people on these boards who are schooling extremely bright/gifted children. They themselves are extremely bright, but because they are, sometimes their perspective on what will work best for a more typical child is fairly limited. I, myself, have schooled a student who is a globally gifted learner. She was a National Merit Scholar. If I had only ever had that child, my perspective on what constitutes a good curriculum and what is necessary for college admission would be seriously limited. Fortunately, God gave me two more very different students who learn differently from their sister. It's sure made me a lot more humble in the last few years as I have struggled to find materials that address their particular needs. If we only have the perspective of the academically gifted teaching the academically gifted, this board will not have all the voices it needs. All homeschoolers trying to give their children a strong education which allows their children to soar in their strengths, while continuing to grow in their weaker areas, need to be here."