Because we haven't seen enough Heart of Dakota posts here lately :)....I posted this on the HOD boards this morning but folks here seem much quicker to comment and offer input, so I will post it here too. I am considering using Creation to Christ for three of my sons next year; two who will be 11 and in 5th grade, and one who will be 14 and in 8th (with extensions for him). I'm wondering how long folks are spending each day using CTC. If anyone here has used CTC, could you please share how long your typical school-day is, beginning to end? Thanks so much.

I believe someone is on worrying about a 9-year-old being bored with Bigger? I just got my "Bigger Box" of curriculum today, and I can pretty confidently assure you that it looks pretty challenging. I had considered using it this past year for my two 10-year-olds (with extensions) and my ds7, but thought it'd be too boring for the big guys. Actually, I think it would have been perfect. However, with my little guy's language processing issues, I think the language, in the poetry that was chosen, and in the Eggleston books, will be too much for him, and I may not keep the program. :001_unsure: More to think about...

I have been interested to read this thread, as I am waiting for Bigger to arrive for ds(almost)8, and am deliberating about ordering CTC for my 2 ds who will be 11 in the fall. One thing that is holding me back is a concern about the writing. Our use of written narration has increased here in the last few months with the 10-year-olds. Before this, we had used oral narration, taking turns discussing things after a history reading, but I realized with horror that one of the boys was retaining almost no important information about our readings - we're talking major things, like what century and state or country we were discussing. After studying the HOD catalog a lot, I began inventing notebooking pages, and requiring the boys to do a written summary of our readings. One boy does it easily, from memory. The ds in question needs to skim through the text again, or a history encyclopedia, to get his facts straight. BUT, this child is now remembering key facts, bringing up things like Mussolini's tactics in discussions, and went from wailing and whining, to completing his pages without being asked to. So what is my concern? In some of the HOD sample pages, it looks like the notebooking is completely guided, and the children are told what to write. I believe that accessing the information themselves is what is helping my children remember, and I am hoping that the HOD narration and notebooking is open-ended enough that my kids will have to come up with their own information, and not what someone supplies them with in a guide. I believe I have asked this question here before, but I'd love to have more input on this.

Thanks for sharing, I guess we will both find out!

I just ordered Heart of Dakota's Bigger for ds7 (almost 8) and am now worried about whether I'm going to regret it. We started out using mostly classical methods in our homeschool, but have used more CM methods and materials as our homeschool has evolved. We love Serle's Language Lessons, living books, nature study, narration, dictation, etc. Littlest has some processing and attention issues and AO's materials were too difficult for him in terms of the antiquated language. I've been told HOD is great for visual, kinesthetic little learners like littlest, BUT now I am worried that I will feel really boxed in; that the approach will be more classical than CM and we will miss our CM materials; and that it will be a strain for little (and for me!) to keep up with all the box checking. One of the things I've loved about using both SWB and CM's materials are the "do the next thing" aspects of the materials. Can anyone weigh in on this? Have I made a mistake? :confused:

We have, for many years in our homeschool, used Emma Serle's Language Lessons, both Primary and Intermediate. They are very similar to what you have described, and I have been told by a Charlotte Mason scholar that the method is very close to what she would have recommended. I haven't found these sweet little texts for free, but they're not expensive. Primary spans second and third grades, and Intermediate covers grades 4-6. My ds13 was very sad when he finished the last book and I believe he gained a lot from it. The texts have been a big help to me in designing a CM education without having to reinvent the wheel, but I'd never read the lesson you posted - it is really reassuring! Thank you for sharing!

I too have had years of putting things together myself, but as the number of kids in our homeschool has increased and I have tried to meet their various needs - both accelerated and remedial - I also worry about making sure I cover everything. I have tended toward at least a general core that is more planned out, with "do the next thing" for math and LA. Usually that means history and readers with something like Biblioplan or SOTW. Last year I wanted more done for me, so we tried MFW Ex-1850. The year started feeling so refreshing and organized, but felt constricting and overwhelming by the middle of the year when we tried to schedule in life, holidays, etc. I felt I had to leave behind much of the spontaneity I love about home learning, in order to get everything done. This year we're using Sonlight with lots of tweaking, and I'm wondering whether I should try HOD for the coming year, to meet the needs of my kinesthetic and visual learners. But I'd have to tweak still, because even with the older kids, I feel it's important for us to do a good portion of history together. Or I could put things together myself again - which exhausts me just thinking about. Question: Do you feel the amount of writing was inordinate in HOD? I am wondering about that myself, as I look through the samples.

Thanks for all this info, it is helping me. A few more questions I'd like to throw into the mix: how long does it take to complete Bigger (or Preparing, if anyone knows) each day? Has anyone tried to do Bigger with a four-day week, just "doing the next thing" the following week? We have a co-op and gym class, and I really can't do a five-day week with a curriculum. Lastly, does anyone do the history from Preparing as a family, rather than independently? We LOVE doing history together, and I hate to miss out on that experience. I am editing to say I realized I asked several non-LA related questions, hope I am not hijacking the post too much, and that someone else will benefit from information anyone is able to share! Blessings, Aimee Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20 Some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

I should also add two other reasons keeping me from buying HOD: - if we choose to take a few days off, or have sickness or guests, I worry that it will completely throw off a very set schedule - Bigger is scheduled for 5 days, and we do a 4 day week with a co-op on the 5th. Not sure how that would work out. I still can't put down the catalog though... Blessings, Aimee Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20 Some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

Rebecca, I have been considering HOD for the reasons you mentioned; we want to cover the same things you do. However, either I feel I've covered everything and our school days are too long, or I cut things out, and always feel I am missing something. I guess what I am afraid of with HOD is: - losing touch with the kids, as we do history, read-alouds and Bible together and I'd like that to continue - having really long school days like we get here when I try to cover everything - running two guides - Bigger for ds7 (almost 8) and CTC for two ds who will be 11 and extensions (and my own materials) for 8th grade ds. Not sure how that will work out, or whether we could do a bunch of history together even though it's scheduled to be done independently. Also, I am wondering whether the amount of writing in Bigger will be too much for littlest, who has some special needs, but is too old for Beyond in other ways. So I have answered nothing for you, added to a very long thread, and put more questions out there! But those are the reasons keeping me from ordering. Blessings, Aimee Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20 Some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

You have some great resources here, just a word of caution. I have exhausted myself for the past few years trying to do everything included in both a CM and classical approach, and it makes for a very long school day. We have spent this year paring down, and everyone is so much happier. That said, I think you have some duplication in LA. I am guessing that you won't need (and that it may be too much to use) the daily traits and WWE; you may not need either with the Language Lessons. History might be a heavy schedule, though I see you want to study two time periods. You didn't ask about this, but I wanted to give a bit more input - from our own experience with our very bright and literary ds13 this year, may I suggest that All American History may be a bit much for a 9-year-old? We found AA II to be dry, repetetive and dull, despite all the good reviews we'd read. I know AAH may be just fine for you, and I haven't seen volume I (I am editing what I previously wrote, after I realized we're using Volume II) but I thought I'd mention that. Ambleside Online may have other alternative spines for that time period, if you care to look further. Blessings, Aimee Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20 Some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

HOD does seem to leave room for your own grammar program, but I consider ILL and PLL more of a writing program with informal grammar. Through the years, I've supplemented with something simple like Evan Moore Grammar and Punctuation, but then I feel maybe I'm doubling up...and when I leave it out, I worry that I'm missing something the standardized tests will include. It's had very good results with ds13 (he used both books), and the three youngers enjoy ILL and PLL as well, but I wonder whether it might be a relief to have something that includes it all and I don't have to plan it? I wonder if HOD includes some of the copywork, dictation and poetry I like from Serle's books. I suppose I could pick up R&S, and if we hate it, I still have copies of PLL and ILL:confused:...still thinking it all through here. Blessings, Aimee Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20 Some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

I am looking at some of the same curriculums, as I try to make a decision for next year. I LOVE ILL and PLL and I love AO and all the CM concepts, but it is a matter of how to make it all work here with my different learners. AO is wonderful, and two of my learners could handle it with no problem. However, I have two ADD learners, one more severe than the other, and one of those has auditory processing issues. While the AO concept of short lessons is perfect for an ADD learner, the older language and complicated sentence structure has proven difficult for them, my littlest one especially. They would happily sit and listen to the stories, but because narration is an integral part of CM education, asking for narrations after every reading let me see just how much they were missing. I wrote to a CM Special Needs message group and someone there put well what I had been sensing: Charlotte Mason chose the books used in AO at a time when that language was contemporary to the children. Some of our children (and this may not be yours) struggle with modern language, so this is a double challenge for them. Several moms on that list suggested HOD, and said it had been a Godsend for them and their families. So that is going higher on my list of possibilities for next year. I would greatly mourn the loss of PLL and ILL as they have been lovely during our years of homeschooling, but if narration, dictation, poetry and copywork are scheduled, perhaps I won't miss them as much as I think I would. Good luck with your decision! Blessings, Aimee Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20 Some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

Thanks so much for the responses and the links. You've given me more to think about. I think my concern about just copying information stems from the fact that I have one child who can copy beautifully, but recall very little of what he's heard or copied. I have been creating my own notebooking pages (very simple) on lined paper, making boxes into which he fits different portions of his narration - for instance, the Three R's of the New Deal. The boxes give him structure, but I ask him to tell me what category of information should be in each box - ie, how he wants the information divided. We talk through the information, I redirect him to important passages, etc, until he can identify the most important information. This has come so easily to some of my children, and with so much difficulty to this ds and a dd. With dd years ago and now with this ds, my goal is to teach them to think, not just copy, so I want to be sure that any curriculum I choose to use has that goal in mind as well. I've read some of those links, and look forward to reading the rest. Blessings, Aimee Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20, some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart.

I forgot one more question: could I continue to use Intermediate Language Lessons, or is R&S and the writing program an integral part of the curriculum? Thanks!

I am considering using HOD CTC for two of my ds, who will be in 5th grade in the fall. However, I have a few questions, and I wonder if anyone can offer input that could help me in my decision. - I have noticed in the guide samples, instructions that tell the students things like "Write xyz in box A," or "Write such and so under the painting on page B," etc. I'm making up the wording, but the point is, from the limited bits I can see, it seems very scripted and I am wondering if there are notebooking and writing opportunities that require the child to think and come up with the answers on their own. I have one child in particular who is good at filling in the blanks as directed, but will not think hard and remember the information unless he is pushed. If all the answers are provided, he is not going to grow. So I suppose the question is, are all the answers provided, and notebooking scripted? - I am also wondering if CTC could be "beefed up" and supplemented enough to provide a history program for my 8th grade ds, with separate materials for every other subject. He is a prolific reader, but some of the materials appear fairly advanced. Thanks so much for any input you can share. Blessings, Aimee Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20, some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart.

I am considering this; C2C for the two boys who will be in 5th grade, and different curriculum for the 3rd and 8th graders. It looks like it would be such a good fit for the two 5th graders - I'd just love to incorporate the 8th grader if I could somehow beef it up for him....but I think there's no hope of rolling little one into it, really (or into any other program the older boys do)! He will need his own materials, but I think starting with one guide and something simpler for him might be a good intro year to HOD for ME. Blessings, Aimee mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20, some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

I want to marry it but I think MFW lends itself for use in large families better. I have used both and have 5 children. We used MFW last year for that reason (ex-1850), but unfortunately, my two middles retained very little - they did better with SOTW grouped in units, like Biblioplan does, better than chronologically. Because one of the middlers has mild auditory processing and attention issues, HOD was suggested as something that might capture his attention more effectively. If we don't do that, we may go back to Biblioplan, which we did enjoy for two years, but there is always MFW ECC, sigh... Did you ever try to use more than one guide or incorporate kiddos into one guide with HOD? Thanks and blessings, Aimee mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20, some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

Donna, I was very interested to read this, because I'm considering CTC for at least two, possibly three of my kiddos for next year. I will have one fairly advanced 8th grader, two on-target 5th graders and a 3rd grader with auditory processing and attention issues. The two middles would use CTC as written, at least for history (we love our ILL) but I have some questions I wonder if you (or any HOD user) might be able to help with. Do you think CTC would be enough, with the extensions, for an 8th grader? (I have considered getting him Notgrass World History, and using the first half, or using a BF package as an alternative for him.) I don't think ds8 would be able to follow much of CTC, but do you think it would be fairly easy to plug SOTW in? As an alternative, would it be maddening to run two programs? Would we use a lot of the HOD program if we chose our own LA? Thanks and blessings, Aimee mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20, some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart

Three of my ds used A Reason for Handwriting, and it was ok, but when ds7 begged to learn cursive this year, I wanted something different. He was younger, I felt the lessons could be a bit tedious in ARFH, but he really wanted to learn. After hearing about Cheerful Cursive on this board, we chose to try it (I think I ordered it through Heart of Dakota), and he loves it. The lessons are short and developmentally appropriate, the teaching is effective and incremental, and he always looks forward to doing it. Blessings, Aimee Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20, some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart Schooling grades 2, 4, 4 and 7

First of all, congratulations on your adoption, and welcome, little one! We too have adopted toddlers and found Biblioplan easy to use during the adjustments. We used Biblioplan for Families with the SOTW AG (we already owned it so made use of it). We used the first two years of Biblioplan, and LOVED it - loved the way it grouped the chapters so we could spend more time in each area/time period. We loved the books they chose and the way readings were chosen for different age groups. The three-day-a-week schedule was great in terms of adaptability; if we had to take a day off one week, we could easily double up the next and get it done. For some reason, we decided to try something else the past few years, and haven't been as happy with the history. For the third year in the cycle we chose MFW, which uses SOTW in the order in which it was written, and I have to say, only the oldest I'm schooling (12 at the time) could follow the history - or more importantly, retain it a little while later. The others said it was too confusing, and wished they could go back to spending a longer time on one culture so they could really "dig deeper." My one warning about Biblioplan: they offer you LOTS of choices, and we tried to do it all, which was exhausting (this is probably why I chose to try something else). You don't have to use ALL the choices listed! I'd recommend getting the core resources, consider getting the read-alouds, and see if you can use your library for the rest. Blessings, Aimee Mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20, some homegrown, some born in Korea, all born in my heart Schooling grades 2, 4, 4 and 7

:lurk5: I'd love to hear any thoughts on MFW ECC, even if folks haven't checked out Higher Up's curriculum. Aimee mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20; Some homegrown, some from Korea, all born in my heart Schooling grades 2, 4, 4 and 7

Thank you, Melissa, that does help. We have done one year of MFW as part of our rotation (ex-1850) so I do understand that while MFW can look light, it can be a pretty rich curriculum. It's just hard for me to tell from looking at the ECC page, what that might encompass. My 8th grader will have read some of the ECC supplement materials already, so I would need to substitute, I suppose. I have read so many times that people found ECC their "best year ever," and am so curious as to what they love. At first glance, it is missing the rich books we loved so much from Sonlight (maybe some are in the book basket?), but I know there must be good stuff in there. The Higher Up schedule is intriguing because it seems to incorporate some of each...thanks for chiming in, I appreciate it. Blessings, Aimee mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20; Some homegrown, some from Korea, all born in my heart Schooling grades 2, 4, 4 and 7

I am trying to plan a "different" year history and geography wise for my dc next year, having completed the history cycle and wanting to take a year off before my ds13 starts again for high school. (They will be in grades 3, 5 and 8.) Years ago we did Sonlight Core 5 with dd, and while I loved the books, I didn't like the structure of the year. MFW ECC looks like the same sort of idea - nonwestern cultures and civilizations, missionary stories, etc, but it looks - well - light; I can't imagine it being enough for the ds who will be in 8th grade next year. Now I've stumbled across a schedule listed on the Higher Up and Further In blog, for a year 5 that seems to incorporate many elements of all three curriculums. http://higherupandfurtherin.blogspot.com/2006/12/year-5-program-and-booklist.html I am intrigued, but not sure how it would all come together with a weekly, rather than daily schedule, and how I'd know when to do which mapwork, etc. I would love to hear anyone's experience with MFW ECC or the Higher Up curriculum, as I try to sort out what will be best for the kids next year. I understand I'll have to adjust for both the oldest and the youngest, but I am hoping for a core we can all sort of study together. Thanks for any input! Blessings, Aimee mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20; Some homegrown, some from Korea, all born in my heart Schooling grades 2, 4, 4 and 7

I don't use the TE for PLL, I 've never felt I needed it. (I am, however, enjoying the TE for ILL, though I've taught all three years to another ds without it.) When it says "Reproduction, Oral and Written," I assume they're looking for a narration. I write out ds7's narration, type it up, and he copies it over, sometimes in the course of a few days if it is longer than he can handle in one sitting. Blessings, Aimee mom to 6 great kids ages 7-20; some homegrown, some from Korea, all born in my heart Schooling grades 2, 4, 4 and 7