from pandia press. www.pandiapress.com If you do an archive search on this forum you'll find lots of opinions pro and con. On their website they give a very generous "try before you buy" sample (like 4 weeks worth) so you can see if it will work for your family. Good luck!

I've spent some time looking over the S&S and it looks great. My question is this (no tomatoes please;)). We are devout Christians but I still don't like materials that are overly preachy. I prefer to bring scripture into it rather than take things out or reteach where a curriculum goes against something we believe. I have always avoided things I thought would be too preachy. However, I recently bought CLE Math for my kids and CLE LA dor ds7 and so far it's going really well. They use scriptures and talk about missions but it's not really part of the content. When I originally looked over the reading program it seemed to include *tons* of content to the point of obscuring the reading skills. I'd like to help instill a worldview, not exclude every view but ours, if that makes since (it's too late at night to be writing this)... Mostly what I'm looking for is something that teaches literary terms and won't take all day to do. Would this work without adding too much to our workload? Any input is appreciated! Thanks! Anyway, can anyone who has used CLE reading answer these questions. I know

:lol::lol::lol: Dh feels the same way......I have very few addictions, don't buy shoes, don't smoke, don't drink, don't even do caffeine, but books, well, books I'm addicted to!:D Problem is, if it weren't for the budget I wouldn't even want to recover! I did use the Story of Ancient China book this last year and I really liked it. I hadn't thought about those....Luckily, I haven't really bought anything for next year yet so the budget is still there.....I'll have to see what titles she's put out. Thanks for the suggestion. By the way, those of you who pm'd me about schedules, I'll get those emails out this weekend, those lists are all on the laptop which I don't have at the moment so look for them over the weekend! Thanks everyone for your input. This board is amazing, isn't it!:)

That is exactly what I needed to know!! Thanks! Now the question is can I let go and trust myself to go "a la WTM" next year without a premade schedule from someone besides me??? Um, gulp, :eek: I guess we'll see. Thank you coffeegal!

:001_smile:Wow!! Can't wait to read about that, she'll learn sooooo much more than Roman life!! You can't get that kind of learning in ps! :iagree: Now, if I could just put that into practice.....:tongue_smilie:

reet3: I can send you whatever you want from the following: 1) my schedule lining up HO level 2 Ancients with SOTW chapters 2) a list lining up SOTW chapters (all 4 volumes) with KFH and UILE 3) the list TeaTotaler sent me that lines up HO level 2 Middle Ages with k12's Human Odyssey Just let me know which you'd like and pm me with your email address. I'm happy to share!:D Lana, I found this year that HO was too much outlining and not enough reading real books. I bought a used Core 6 IG thinking I would add in SL books then ended up adding in a lot of books but not using SL's IG. Next year I may try tweaking HO middle ages and adding in SL books (from the 2nd half of core 6) or just go history a la WTM with KFH, k12's Human Odyssey, and SOTW with my littles. Still undecided:001_huh:. I'm still hoping someone who has used Ancients and Middle Ages will chime in.......Anyone??

Thanks Catp-Uhura! TeaTotaler was actually kind enough to send me her schedule, it made me think "Why reinvent the wheel, why not just to HO again?" Then, I remember how much my kids hate it, but it's just so much work to put something together from scratch. Plus, I'm not sure what writing to require....etc. etc. etc. Why is this decision so hard this year?? I'd still love to hear from anyone who has used Ancients and Middle Ages level 2, are they really the same or what's different?:bigear: Thanks!

This year we've been using level 2 Ancients. It's gotten done, but it's sooooo light on literature I feel like I've spent too much time adding to and tweaking (not a fan of Van Loon, either). I had decided to just go history a la WTM next year. My plan had been SOTW 2 and AG with the youngers and having the olders sit in on that then do k12's Human Odyssey and KFH as their spine. Now, of course, I'm second guessing myself....:glare:. I keep reading how much people loved HO Level 2 Middle Ages and how much it helped their kids writing. My kids could really use help there...but history used to be their favorite subject (we did SL core 3 and then core 4 the previous 2 years of hsing). This year HO Ancients has developed a "hate" of history for them. I know part of that is being expected to think and write, not just read (one of the reasons I did not continue with SL). But, I do NOT want to kill their love of history for good! I think it can be resurrected next year if I do it right, :tongue_smilie:I'm just not sure what right is. Dd13 and ds11 are in 8th and 6th so I don't feel like I can just lay back and let them do SOTW with the youngers and have history be "gravy." Anyone use HO level 2 Ancients and then Middle Ages? Can you tell me if they are really that different? When I look at the extensive samples online all I see in Middle Ages is more of the same that they did in Ancients, just insert a different page # and date???? What am I missing?:bigear::bigear: Thanks!

Lori D. I love your ideas!!! I've really dropped the ball this year with science (that and I really dislike the curriculum we're using). So, our plan is a "Summer of Science" with tons of outdoor stuff and experiments just like you suggested. I'm printing it out for future reference! Thanks!

I'm using levels 100, 500, & 700. For 100 it's an absolute must. The other levels I use it just as an answer key. HTH

:iagree: emphasis mine:iagree::iagree: It's really hard to stop looking around and thinking, "She does this better and she does that better." The fact is, God gave you the children He gave you in the order and time He gave them for a reason!! (If you aren't religious, you might not believe that, but I do!;)) God knew the oldest would get a lot more one-on-one attention than any of the others, etc etc. My oldest learned to read at 4, not because I did phonics with her, but because I read to her so much. My youngest, now 4, recently told her dad that "In Ancient Rome they didn't have any video games or tv or books on tape or even electricity! We sure are lucky!" :) (We don't have tv or video games at our house, either:tongue_smilie:). She plays games all the time with the olders based on our studies/books. They pick it up along the way. My best friend growing up had a quote up on the fridge at her house: "If Mama ain't happy, ain't nobody happy!" Words to live by. That being said, my kids do participate in stuff, but either they all do the same thing at the same time (ie co-ops) or they take turns. Ds7 is in Little League right now and ds11 will do football this summer. Next fall dd13 will get her chance, etc. etc. They take turns because I just.cannot.do.everything.for.everyone.at.once. So, they take turns. It works for us. I hope you find something that works for you. Then, let go of the guilt and just live life!:D Just my 2 cents.

We've been using Exploring the World of Chemistry this year. We've only read the first 10 chapters. So far the only "Christian" themes I have seen are that he refers to Biblilcal times on occasion or mentions a Biblical story. I suppose that makes them "Christian" but I haven't found it overly so, it doesn't seem to really affect the scientific facts he's giving. YMMV I'm sure others will chime in!:)

We used LOF Fractions (and are currently using Decimals and Percents) as supplements. We do 2 chapters 1 day/week. It took us almost a whole school year to do both. But, they are not intended by the author to be full curriculums, they are intended as fun supplements. If you have a super mathy kid who loves stories, I think they could be used alone. I have dc who need more repetition than LOF gives, but enjoy the stories and stories stick in their heads to help remember so we like it as a supplement. HTH

Another vote against insanity:tongue_smilie:. For first grade I would totally focus on Reading, Writing and Math. Then, get some great picture and storybooks from the library for history and science. If you want to get suitable picture books to line up with what the olders are doing, great, if not, just consider it nice snuggle time on the couch! I say why make your life more complicated if you don't have to?? 1st grade is about learning to read and enjoying school and learning. Just my 2 cents!:D

There have been several recent threads on history odyssey. You can do an archive search. Here's a few I found: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167913&highlight=History+Odyssey You can read my review of trying both level 1 & 2 at the same time with different age kids here: http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166823&highlight=History+Odyssey I hope this is helpful!

We loved the Golden Goblet, exciting and suspenseful and full of facts about Egypt. Mara was wonderful, gripping tale really brought Thutmose and Hatshepsut to life. Tales of Ancient Egypt put us all to sleep. Hittite Warrior had great info on Canaanites and fast-paced story full of adventure my boys loved. I'm not familiar with any of the others. We read these this last fall, you can see my dc ages etc in my siggy. HTH!

My ds7 is halfway through MUS Beta, We use it as his main curriculum so and I haven't seen most of the other stuff you mentioned trying so this might not completely answer your questions, but...Here's my 2 cents anyway.:tongue_smilie: If you're daughter is visual then the dvd's and blocks may be a tremendous help to cement the math facts. It has really helped my ds to "see" how things match up. Alpha spends a lot of time making 10 and such, with (and then without) the blocks. I highly recommend it to solidfy math facts (addition and subtraction) if your dd is kinesthetic or visual. Of course, you'd have to buy the blocks for this approach to work. You might try ebay, there are usually some cheap used sets there. If money is a real issue you can just get the teachers manual/dvds and print up your own worksheets, MUS website has a worksheet generator and you can specify what lesson(s) you want covered on your worksheet. That won't work for the first few lessons (where they learn place value and the block values, there's no worksheets for those lessons). I often have made up my own worksheets, just making up problems of the kind in the lesson when I haven't had printer ink or ds needed extra work, or I just didn't have time to move on to a new lesson (including watching the video) today but we can't skip math......etc. etc. I highly recommend MUS for cementing math facts for a visual/kinesthetic learner. HTH

Dd did TT7 and LOF Fractions while ds did TT6 & LOF Fractions. It worked well as a supplement. My dd espedially likes the stories of LOF. She remembers more when she can associate it with a story, that's what got me interested in LOF to begin with.:)

I don't consider LOF to be a full program at the Fractions and Decimals & Percents level. I believe the author doesn't either. As of Algebra 1 LOR is a complete program. My dc used TT last year (6 & 7) and we added in LOF Fractions once a week for fun. This year they are doing CLE 500 & 700 and LOF: Decimals and Percents (once/week for fun). It's working marvelously. My oldest is not mathy, she will never use LOF by itself. My ds is very mathy so he might in high school, if he wants to. That's still a few years away. I do plan on having the younger two work through LOF Fractions and D&P when they get to that stage. If for no other reason than to make math relevant to life!:)

I didn't see which levels you are looking at. But, here's my experience with both programs: My dd used Horizons 4 a couple years ago. Pros: 1) spiral approach 2) colorful book 3) short lessons 4) didn't require tons of manipulatives or tons of mom's time 5) consumable workbooks: my dc hate writing out their problems on a seperate sheet of paper. Cons: 1) lots of puzzles (figure out the problem, the answer corresponds with a letter, plug the letter in the puzzle). My dd solved the riddle in her head first then could plug the answers in without doing the math. 2) *every* riddle or puzzle or quote was a scripture. I don't like to beat it into my dc. YMMV 3) Teacher's manual was all but useless. Had I not understood the concepts already I would not have been able to teach it. We're currently using CLE 100, 500, and 700. Pros: 1) For levels 500 & 700 they can do it independently. (100 level obviously requires me, as I would hope for that level!) 2) pictures to illustrate concepts 3) high-interest puzzles in the back of the book to be done for fun, not to be guessed at in the lesson 4) consumable workbooks 5) TM is much more detailed (I only bought TM for level 700 and 100 and just the answer book for 500). 6) can't beat the price (even the free stuff has to be printed!) Cons: 1) black and white with a tiny bit of green 2) they introduce concepts earlier than other curriculums so they sometimes hit stuff expecting my kids to already know it when they don't (we just started CLE, you wouldn't have this problem using it all the way through) Overall, I really like CLE and plan to use it till high school for all of my dc. I'll mix it with MUS for my youngers as my ds7 just loves the mastery of MUS so he'll use MUS as the main program and CLE a year behind for spiral review and to hit the things MUS doesn't get to as early as CLE). I hope this is helpful.

My ds just finished ETC 4 before we started CLE. I wouldn't say you have to go back to the beginning, especially if your dc had good phonics. My ds didn't get as thorough a grounding in phonics as I would have liked. And, frankly, ETC 4 was kicking him around for awhile. The idea of syllabication just is.not.clicking. for him. If I were to continue ETC then 4 1/2 is the first 1/2 book I would consider doing. Honestly, I started at 100 because I wanted him to like it. I wanted him to feel smart again and feel successful. We did LU 101 in 3 days. LU 102 5 days. I'd rather he enjoy it and not be frustrated at this point. My plan is to do 3-4 lessons worth a day until we get a really close to where he should be and then slow down to 1 lesson a day. My hope is this will solidify any basics we missed along the way and build up his confidence. I hope!:D The samples of CLE LA are pretty extensive. I think you could get a good feeling for the program from their website. Take a look at it and the other grammar programs recommended (GWG is supposed to be great if all you want to replace is grammar, CLE is supposedly an all-in-one LA, although I will keep WWE going, too). I hope you find something that works for you and your dd!:)

My ds detests things he sees as busywork. He wants to get school done, period! I bought CLE LA 100 (since I wanted to build confidence and positive feelings toward the program). We started at the very beginning, even though he's nearing the end of 2nd grade. We've been blasting through them, introducing only the things that are new to him. I freely cross out sections like "match the upper and lowercase letters" because he doesn't need them. But, we've slowed down on things like the "schwa" sound because he never got that in his phonics lessons. It's working beautifully and my ds is determined CLE is what he wants to continue = it lets him drop his ETC, grammar book, and spelling. So, we're going with CLE LA and WWE 2 for his language arts. Plus, of course, he reads to me and I read to him, but that will continue till he leaves my home so.......:D Good luck! CLE is really looking for my no-mess, no-frills, get-it-done-so-I-can-play guy. HTH

This looks a LOT like the reading list I have planned for 6th grade next year. I also have planned: History = a la WTM with K12's H. O. & KFH as spines, Middle Ages Literature = see above to go with history, I'm also considering adding in LLfLOTR, although we'd probably be spreading this over 2 years, and it may take the place of some of the above reading, that's still up in the air Math = CLE 600 Writing = IEW Medieval Theme lessons/WTM mix, I'm hoping to incorporate this into History/Lit studies. If that doesn't work I'll probably go with SICC-B from IEW Logic = finish up Orbiting With Logic and Analogy Challenges 2, then maybe Mindbenders B series?? The dc liked Mindbenders A series. Music = continue piano lessons and Bernstein's Concerts for Young People Art = ??? we never seem to find time for this, I may outsource it this year Typing = Typing Instructor Deluxe, cause that's what I own French = I have a BA in French, he wants to learn...I'm debating on which program, I'm finding that I'm a little picky here.:tongue_smilie: These are still giving me headaches:(suggestions??:D) Grammar = ?????? Science = ???????

There were a couple threads on this a few months ago. I read them because I'm LDS and had considered TOG. I downloaded their samples and just couldn't wrap my brain around all the info. So, I can't answer your question. But, I would suggest doing a search. I know someone actually graciously typed up a few paragraphs from TOG discussing the Mormons moving west from Nauvoo. I remember that it wasn't offensive. The authors seemed to just present the facts without drawing conclusions..... But, I could be remembering wrong. Have you asked on the LDS Social Group? Pm me if you can't find the social group and are interested in joining it. HTH

I have one to teach next year, too. I've looked at a ton of programs but $$ and ease-of-use and prep-time (or lack thereof) are essential since I'll be schooling 4 next year. I'm 99.9% sure I'll be using Phonics Pathways: *it's affordable *it's thorough *doesn't require writing skills to learn reading *open and go *font is very readable *not scripted I chose not to use Alpha-Phonics (although I believe the methodology) because: *teacher's portion of lesson is in the back of the book, I hate flipping back and forth *the font is awful - calligraphy and the lowercase L is indistinguishable from the uppercase I. When I had it from the library and was looking through it dd4 joined me on the couch for a few minutes and had fun "reading" from it. There were too many letters she couldn't recognize (even though she knows them and their basic sounds) because of the font. I chose not to use OPGTR (even though it's fantastic in its methodology and thoroughness) because I hate scripted programs. I would suggest getting whatever interests you from your library and looking at it yourself to see what works for you.:)