I guess it depends on how well you feel PP is working for you. If it's getting the job done and your girls are progressing, then I'd say stick with it. If you aren't happy with the progress they're making, perhaps you could look at the table of contents of the R&S books and see what would be a good place to start them. I know that each child is different and that different approaches work for different children, but our ds went from just beginning to sound out CVC words when we started R&S, to reading at a fourth grade level when we finished their 1st grade books. By the end of their 2nd grade books, he tested at 10th grade level for overall reading and post high school level for reading comprehension. (I guess you could say I'm highly impressed with their program. :) )

If you really like R&S math, have you considered R&S phonics and reading? I like and use R&S spelling. It not only teaches spelling, but is also great for reinforcing phoincs.

I'd look into Kumon books and R&S Preschool books. R&S has a younger set put out by another company and then their own series (ABC and GHI) they put out themselves. My dd has loved (enthusiastically!) both the Kumon and R&S workbooks. I'd be careful about starting a formal K program with your dd. It's easy to push too hard when children are so eager and do well, but it often backfires down the road. I'm speaking from experience, as I have a 10yo ds who was (and still is) very advanced.

I'm not sure I undertand this. R&S does use manipulatives and has plenty of pictures. I am a certified teacher, too, and spent many years teaching math across many grade levels, to all levels of students, from special education up to honors, so I think I have a pretty good background from which to evaluate R&S and from which to analyze concrete-pictorial-abstract learning. (I hope that didn't sound snarky ... I don't mean it to be. :-) To reinforce what I said above and previously, I skimmed the grade 1 book and here are just a few examples of "hands on" learning: forming numbers: children form the numbers in the air number order: students might do dot-to-dot pages to practice number order counting: the students are asked to count the number of various items in the classroom (chairs, clocks, doors, etc.) adding: children move ducks from grass to a pond (in grade 2, sailboats are used as manipulatives in the same way) subtracting: children remove ducks from a pond ordering numbers: each child gets a number card and the students line up in order of their numbers telling time: children move the hands on a clock money: children use actual money to count (and in later grades to count back change) fractions: teacher cuts an apple or a cookie in half or fourths ordinal numbers: children count actual items measurement: teacher and/or students use real objects to teach (canning jar, measuring cup, ruler, etc.) temperature: students use a real thermometer and discuss real life situations such as what clothing one would wear when it is a certain temperature I don't have time right now to go through the other books, but I think the above examples illustrate why I believe R&S is concrete, rather than abstract. (Of course, as one gets farther up in the levels, the math does get more abstract, but I think that's true for most programs, Singapore included, since children at that level are able to think more abstractly.)

I think R&S would be an excellent choice for him. We've used grades 1-5, so I'm very familiar with it. I don't see it being abstract at all. I think the explanations are extremely clear and the review is fantastic. Some complain of the repetition and "mindless drill," but I don't see it that way at all. The drill in the early grades is what is extremely successful in helping children learn their facts. Then, once they have a good foundation, more advanced math is very easy. R&S builds slowly, giving students plenty of time to master material, and the continual review ensures they don't forget it. R&S also gently introduces new topics, giving the students the time they need to understand, before moving on to new material.

I would advise you not to switch. I think more problems come from jumping too much than from staying consistent with a math program that might not be all you desire. I also think it would be quite discouraging for a 10 yo to be back in 2B. Rather than switching, how about just adding in some "thinking out of the box" type of problems? You could supplement with some of Singapore's IP or CWP. Perhaps do CLE Monday through Thursday and do the IP & CWP on Fridays or do CLE daily, along with a few IP/CWP problems. To be honest, it's not that unsual for a child not to "see" the need to find the area of the rectangle and then subtract the triangle. I used to be a math teacher and many of my students wouldn't see that right away. If you added in some Singapore type problems, your children would get the foundation they needed from CLE, but they also would get the 'mental stretching" from Singapore that would help them more readily grasp the different type of problems. If it makes you feel better, I also taught college math and I remember a problem where the students were asked to find the empty space in a can of tennis balls. Very few of them understood they needed to find the volume of the cylinder can and then subtract the volume of the three tennis balls. The more we worked through problems like this, the more they started to "get" it, but it took time and practice. Perhaps by supplementing with Singapore, as time allows, your sons will develop that type of thinking, but without being held back.

Here is HOD's placement chart: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php There is also a wonderful HOD board, moderated by Carrie (the author), that could be very helpful for you in determining placement: http://www.heartofdakota.com/board3/

I agree with the others who recommended Heart of Dakota. It starts with a one year overview of history in Preparing and then proceeds to a chronological four-year cycle. They use great spines and also add in a lot of other literature.

My daughter was very excited to try out ABCMouse, so we signed up for the free trial. At first, she asked to use it multiple times a day and never wanted to stop when it was time to do something different, but after a few weeks, she became bored with it and no longer wanted to use it. Thankfully, I was able to cancel before we were charged.

I am also a Christian who is teaching my children Hebrew. I recently ordered this book from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0874417287/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00 and it's been the best of all I've found for teaching the letters and vowels. I have also used and been pleased with books from www.behrmanhouse.com, although they are not from a Messianic viewpoint.

Oh ... now I understand. I do get their newsletters, but I didn't discover R&S until about 2006, so all that discussion was before my time. I did wonder why the teacher's manuals often seem to repeat what is in the student book. Now it makes more sense. (Now I also don't feel so guilty about skipping all but the oral and written reviews in the English TM.:))

I'm wondering where this idea originated. I've read the R&S catalog cover to cover, own several of their educational books, including their "Handbook for Creative Teaching." and have thoroughly read through their teacher's manuals. Everything I've read from R&S supports having the teacher present the lesson; I have yet to read anything that would suggest teachers just give the students the text and have them work independently.

I was in your shoes several years ago. The length of time and teacher-intensity of Saxon was what led me to switch to R&S. I also was not overly impressed with Saxon's presentation of the facts, especially the ones they call "odd-ball" facts. (Additionally, as a former math teacher, I couldn't get my head around the lack of continuity in the lessons.) Switching to R&S was like a breath of fresh air. The teacher's manuals are extremely well laid out and the lessons much more do-able for our family. Like you, I realized I am much more a traditionalist and R&S fit the bill perfectly. My opinion of R&S grows the more we use it. We've now gone through R&S 1-4 and are currently in 5. What some call busywork, I call necessary drill. Though the younger grades do contain a lot of repetition and emphasis on fact memorization, they have laid a solid foundation for my ds and have taught him how to work hard, even when a task is not the most exciting. Most importantly, they have produced great results. By grade 4, my ds had all his facts down cold, so we were easily able to move on to harder material. He has breezed through long division, double-digit multiplication, fractions, etc., partly because the facts are so automatic for him and partly because of the conceptual preparation he gained through the oral lessons preceding the new topics.

We've used R&S Math since grade 1 and are currently in the grade 5 book. I love the TM and as the others have said, you definitely can trust them. For the sake of consistency, I agree that it would be a good idea to follow their instructions. I will recommend, however, that you supplement the division lessons with manipulatives, as they seem to help solidify the concept. (Chocolate chips were a big hit around here. :)) The manipulatives are especially helpful when teaching division with remainders.

Since MFW appeals to you, you might also want to look at Heart of Dakota (http://www.heartofdakota.com). There are a lot of similarities, but I found HOD's format easier to follow. We have also found it easy to substitute our own math, handwriting & science.

I've used HOD, along with several of the items you've listed, for several years now. (We're currently using R&S Spelling 4, R&S Math 5, R&S English 4 & Zaner-Bloser 4, while also finishing up Bigger Hearts with Extensions, which we started last year.) Our day is longer than typical HOD families, but the mixture has been a great combination for us. I have found the blend of HOD dictation and R&S Spelling to be the perfect fit for us. R&S spellling only takes my ds about 15 minutes a day, so that doesn't add too much time and the dictation has been a great help. We substitute Zaner-Bloser for the recommended handwriting programs and R&S Math for Singapore. R&S English is already scheduled, so that's not extra. We do our own science (R&S and Apologia), but I didn't want my ds to miss the books used by HOD for science, as I think they're fantastic, so I have my ds do the readings on his own, and then I have him share with me what he learned, plus I have him do the once a week science notebooking. We don't really do the experiments. (I liked the idea of them, along with the lab sheets, but, unfortunately, I had too many times that they didn't work for us. Since the R&S Science experiments always work, we just stick with them and I figure he'll get lab sheets via Apologia.) The other curriculum you mentioned, Writing Strands, is the only one I think would be difficult to mesh with HOD, since Carrie weaves a lot of writing and writing instruction throughout the curriculum. I love the integration of the items on the left side of the HOD manual. To me it's worth the cost of the manual to have it all laid out for me. I love having wonderful, living books to read and I love how Carrie is very careful with what she introduces to children and when. I never have to worry about any of her book selections, plus they are all top-notch. I enjoy how the Bible study relates to the readings and how there are weekly memory verses that coincide with the readings and character traits being studied. I also am pleased with the way poetry study and hymn study (in Bigger) are included, as I never seemed to get to them on my own. :)

My 10yo ds thoroughly enjoyed Guns for General Washington by Seymour Reit. We'll soon be reading Toliver's Secret by Esther Wood Brady, which I've also heard is highly recommended. If you want descriptions of the books, click http://www.heartofdakota.com/BHFHG-extension.php and scroll down the page. If you have time to look over the Heart of Dakota website, you can find more revolutionary era books as well. All of their recommendations are top-notch.

I bought all of the flash cards and used them a little, but found they really weren't necessary for my ds. I think it depends on your child. For math, my ds needed the flash cards and used them extensively, but for reading, he was able to grasp the concepts easily without them, so we evenutally dropped them. I'd begin without them and see if they become necessary.

I bought it with good intentions, but ending up not using it with either of my children. It seemed that we covered many of the concepts just by normal living and interacting with our children. I wish now I had saved my money and used it for something else. It's not that it's a bad book, it just didn't seem necessary for us.

From what I've read, we can look at and observe the nests, as long as we don't touch or move them. (Who knew?! I certainly didn't know anything about this until reading Apologia Zoology I!)

I certainly didn't mean to ruffle anyone's feathers (pun intended). :) I was just sharing where our family stands. Of course, on the surface, it seems silly that it would be illegal to pick up a feather from one's own back yard. I guess we're looking at the big picture, in that we want our children to develop a mindset that all laws must be followed and not just when they make sense. I don't want them to think it's okay to break a law (or ignore a house rule, for that matter) just because they don't agree with it. :)

Leeyeewah, Thank you for all of those sites! I really appreciate you taking the time to find them. It seems different sites have different takes on the law; t's hard to know exactly what is allowed. We have a lot of Canada geese around here, but according to one of the sites, even they are restricted. :sad: I have two sad children, now that I've told them we cannot collect nests, eggs & most feathers. I understand the reason for the law, after reading about the terrible things that were done to birds in the name of fashion, but I do wish we were allowed to collect ones we find while taking a nature walk or in our backyards. At the same time, it's important to us to teach our children to follow the law, even if it seems silly. Thanks again,Leeyeewah. If anyone else has verification on whether Apologia is correct in saying duck and geese feathers might be collected, I'd love the references.

I just learned that it is illegal to collect most bird feathers. It's amazing that I've lived this long without knowing that it's illegal! The question I have is in regards to which feathers may be collected. The Apologia Zoology book says feathers from game birds such as duck, geese and turkeys can be collected; however, so far every site I've visited says that only non-migratory game bird feathers may be collected and that it is illegal to collect duck and goose feathers. Is it possible that Apologia is incorrect? We were planning on collecting feathers soon, so I want to make sure I am following the law. Thanks!

My ds is a slow writer, so I can relate. Perhaps my ds is unique, but it never worked for me to try to push him to write faster. What it took was time and maturity on his part. We found much more success starting small and gradually working up. When I read your post, it seems like an awful lot of writing to me, especially with your ds being a young 3rd grader and with this being new to him. I know my ds would have been brought to tears if he were asked to write that much when he was 7. (Now that he's 9, it's no problem; he just wasn't ready back then.) In case you are interested, I just looked at SWB's handout on writing and her recommendation is 2-3 sentences a day for a 3rd grader.

We tried R&S Penmanship, since we use and love a lot of their other materials, but the penmanship left my hard-working ds in tears day after day. There was simply too much practice on each page and excessive practice on strokes. We had used Zaner-Bloser for manuscript, so we went back to it for cursive and it was like a breath of fresh air. We'll be doing the 4th grade book next year to help with fluency, but with just doing the 3rd grade cursive book last year, my ds has beautiful cursive handwriting. I'd highly recommend checking out ZB.