I was morbidly obese. BMI of 46.6. YES!!!!!!!!!!!! Squats and dead lifts, ladies -- that's where it's at!!! :coolgleamA:

(Just to be clear, I'm not picking on you, Katie. These points are intended to be general. And super-big kudos on your weight loss! :) ) That said, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. When I was a kid, my grandmother used to tell me to stop snacking or "you'll spoil your supper." I literally had no idea what that meant. When it was time to eat supper, I'd just... eat supper. Why wouldn't I? I had no concept of hunger or fullness. So whether or not this is the case for regentrude's father, I agree with you that, yes, this phenomenon exists. (See again my description of my own relationship to eating versus that of my mother and sisters.) What I don't understand is the need to have an explanation for this -- or perhaps I mean the sense that people dealing with this issue are incapable of overcoming it via willpower. The very concept of willpower implies that you are overcoming a difficulty by mental restraint. So to say that people who are unable to do so in the arena of food lack willpower is a statement of fact. Perhaps it is an unfair judgment coming from someone who does not struggle in this particular area -- but am I allowed to say it? People struggle with the urge to do all kinds of things they know they shouldn't: get angry, lie, cheat, steal, the list goes on. We rightfully expect others to control themselves and overcome these urges using their willpower. I just don't see why overeating is so much different that it requires scientific intervention to overcome it. Like so many things, it may have biological underpinnings, but it is primarily behavioral. Someone with anger issues (who wants to change) realizes that he has a tendency to overreact and learns to count to 10 and take deep breaths to calm down. I know that overeating is something I am prone to, so I also have to compensate. Our Hulk has to learn that just because he *feels* angry doesn't mean he *has* to throw things. I had to learn the same thing. I am careful about what I allow myself to be around (on a regular basis) because I know what kinds of foods are my triggers. I have had to train myself to recognize an *actual* reasonable portion, because my stomach won't tell me what one is. I exercise for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that it does help with controlling my urge to overeat. And I can attest that since I have stopped eating so much (using my willpower), I find that it is easier for me to recognize hunger and fullness. I'm certainly not opposed to further research on all this! But I just don't see what's so wrong with saying that what's called for in the vast majority of these cases is some good, old-fashioned willpower. (As I've said before, I do believe there is a spiritual aspect to all of this as well, but it still ties in to the need for willpower.) I KNEW there was a reason why I'm so vehemently opposed to the open-concept kitchen!! :) Your last paragraph is dead on, Quill. To me, as someone who has struggled with weight issues for a lifetime, it is depressing to think there is something causing my problems that is beyond my control until some scientist out there figures it out. Like I have some kind of incurable disease. That's even more disheartening than thinking about the amount of work it takes for me to lose via willpower.

***UPDATE*** We came super-duper close to making an offer this week. But ultimately we decided to hold off. Six more months will put us in a much better place financially, and hopefully then we can find something we both love. I actually was a little bit bummed to come to that conclusion, as I had started to really like the house, but in the end I think we will be glad we decided to wait. Thanks everyone for helping me think this through!

I hear you. I've been there. I guess it comes down to how you define "works." For me, I finally had to come to terms with putting in the blood, sweat and tears *without* knowing whether it would work. I knew that there would be health benefits to eating better and exercise, and I was sick of feeling trapped by my compulsion to eat junk and sit around. (Can you have a compulsion to NOT do something??) But I didn't know if the end result would be significant weight loss. I just knew that the new choices were better than the old ones, and I wasn't going to give up. For years, it really, truly FELT like it was beyond my control. It really, truly WASN'T. It's still hard, but it isn't impossible. I am not a prisoner to my genes, or my hormones, or my gut bacteria, or whatever. It is SLOW. It is PAINSTAKING. It is WORTH IT. I wouldn't stop now if you paid me. It is ongoing, and it will be until I die, I expect. Whether I end up skinny or not, it doesn't matter. I have to make the effort, day after day. And I have had to accept that I will have to make the effort, day after day. For me, at least, making that effort is better (physically, psychologically, emotionally) than being trapped in my compulsion. Guess what I had for lunch today? Two chocolate-covered pretzels and a couple of orange slices (the pure sugar kind, not fruit). But I ate well the rest of the day. I busted my tail in the gym this morning, and tomorrow I will get up and do it again. I make healthy choices 90% of the time, and when I splurge, it doesn't derail me. THIS lifestyle is much closer to "normal" than my old one ever was.

I have experienced that also, as a general rule. I kind of get a thrill out of telling people we homeschool, just to see what the reaction will be. I've gotten more good questions than bad comments. And even a few, "Would you homeschool my kids too?" Embrace the weirdness!

See, this is what bothers me about the whole "stop blaming yourself" thing. It seems to be so hopeless. Maybe that's just because I'm a control freak, but if I have no ability to fix the situation, to make better choices, and if science hasn't caught up to the "real" problem, am I just screwed? Certainly we need to find a better way than to wallow in the mire of guilt. That doesn't do anybody any good. What I'm proposing (and what worked for me) was a different perspective -- one that accepts responsibility for my choices while also acknowledging that I have issues (biological? psychological? spiritual?) with food that makes it very difficult for me to make the best choices. EVERYBODY has something like this that they have to deal with, some area of life where their natural inclinations lead them toward less-than-ideal choices. For some people, those areas are worse than others. I happen to wear mine on the outside in the form of extra rolls, where everybody can see exactly where I struggle. Lucky me. It is not fair that I have to struggle with food when my mother and sisters do not. It's not fair that my youngest sister died in a car accident because she made one stupid mistake and forgot to wear her seat belt JUST ONCE. Life isn't fair. When I got over wanting things to be fair, losing weight got a whole lot easier for me. Again, I'm only speaking to my own experience. Perhaps it will help someone in a similar situation, however.

Do they know whether this is a cause or effect? Do overweight people gain weight because of their "faulty" brain reaction, or does being overweight cause the misfire?

You can come over here and we'll be odd ducks together!! Latin-learners and sentence-diagrammers, unite!! :lol:

I've gotten, on more than one occasion and from different people: "You're the only person I know who homeschools who's smart enough to do it." I'm not sure what to make of that. It seems like a backhanded compliment to me -- you mean you basically think homeschooling is insane, but you're willing to make an exception for me? How thoughtful of you. That's been my experience too. We are religious but don't homeschool for religious reasons (most people assume we do and the religious ones look down their noses when I turn down Abeka and Apologia). We have extremely high academic standards. Hence my daily lurking on the boards. At least we've got each other! ETA: Not meaning to imply that Abeka and Apologia are not strong academically. I just prefer to impart values and worldview by means other than curricula. That's the part most of my religious homeschooling friends don't get.

It takes more time for me to cook now that we eat healthy -- but that's because before we ate out A LOT. I was not a good cook. I'm still not very good, but I have improved. I managed to streamline by making quarterly meal plans. There are six weeks of meals for each season (spring, summer, fall, winter). We rotate through the menu twice per season. Each week includes recipes and a shopping list for six dinners. I eat the same breakfast every day and usually eat leftovers for lunch. I keep a few veggies and other things on hand for when we don't have any leftovers or I'm sick of them. I would say dinner prep takes less than 5 hours per week now that the menus are complete. The rule in our house is pretty much eat what's on the table or go hungry. But we do sometimes let the kids make a pb&j or cereal if we don't feel like arguing.

Snatch (IME) usually means to swing the bell straight up, using one arm and keeping your elbow straight, so that your arm goes up by your ear. The bell doesn't flip. If you're watching in a mirror, you should see the bottom of the bell. Clean and press is when you touch the bell to the floor in a squat, then use your legs to help you push the bell straight up in a press. There are a couple of different techniques for this. My dh tends to use a flip -- so that the bell flips over his hand and he pushes it up in one motion. That's how I get major bruises because the bell smacks my forearm. I use a technique more like what's in this video. You can see how he twists his wrist around, so the bell is resting on his forearm before he presses it. I still get bruises this way if I do a lot of cleans with heavy weight, but they're not as bad. I can actually do a lot more weight this way, because in a sense I use my legs twice. So if you adjust your technique, 15 lbs might be fine for you. If not, drop back to 10 or 12 lbs while you perfect your technique.

I think this sounds like a plan with a lot of potential. How long do you expect the arrangement would last? What if one of you needs to sell (if you were to need to move into a residential facility, say) and the other doesn't want to? What would you do then?

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

A dear friend of mine wrote this study: How Jesus Prayed. She's a fantastic scholar and makes the whole study available online for free. You can download the manuscript to reproduce for a group as well.

Oh yeah. Bruises all the time on my forearms from cleans. Never had them from snatches though. The bell doesn't usually touch your arm in a snatch. What other moves are you doing? I would suggest actually lowering your weight on cleans until you get the form down and strengthen your wrists. You can clean all the way up by twisting your wrist (instead of flipping the bell over your hand -- not sure what technique she's showing you). You still get bruises but not as bad, and once you can control the bell you can keep it from hitting you. Although when you increase your weight you'll probably bruise again for awhile. Forewarned is forearmed (hee hee hee). I love kettlebells!! I think they are vastly underused!

I would say 2 hours on any given day is a generous estimate (if we're talking actual workout time, not travel, getting the kids where they need to go, etc.), but that's it, more or less. But here's the thing: I LOVE IT. I really do. I never, ever in a million years thought I'd say that. But it feels GOOD. The harder it is, the better it feels. And I look for ways to fit exercise in, especially when I've had a few days off. Even if I just go for a run. I realize that I am very, very lucky to have the kind of schedule that is flexible enough to allow me to do this. But honestly, carving out those hours makes me MUCH more effective during my other hours as well. ETA: When I say "need it," I am not referring to trying to make the scale move. I mean that my body feels like it needs to move, KWIM?

This was absolutely me. And I didn't want to admit it, even to myself. Worse, I told myself that I WAS using all the willpower I had. This is a big part of the reason that I describe my weight problem as a spiritual problem. I was trapped in it. Liking this wasn't enough.

Well, first, as I said previously, I am naturally a sedentary person. I prefer to use my mind rather than my body. Meaning that the things I enjoy -- reading, writing, theology, philosophy, etc. -- require mental energy, not physical energy. My brain goes at warp speed 24 hours a day. What I've found is that I can *feel* as though I've run a marathon purely on the output of my brain, when the truth is my body has done very little. So even though I felt as though I was being very active, I wasn't. I also have always had low physical endurance. I'm not sure if that is a symptom or a cause of my problems. But this also led me to believe that I was working harder than I really was. For years I tried to subscribe to the "something is better than nothing" philosophy of exercise. But in my case, it really wasn't. A walk, even of a mile or two, did NOTHING for me except make me more tired and tick me off that I wasn't seeing results. But I really felt like I was absolutely doing as much as I was able to do. I got lucky. I started in an exercise program at our local Y that was intended for people who were significantly overweight and out of shape. I only went because I felt like dh needed to go, and I wanted to offer moral support. I was taking water aerobics three times per week and had seen almost no weight loss in the year and a half I'd done it. But again, I felt like it was all I could possibly do. The trainer for the class took a liking to me, for whatever reason. She saw something in me I never saw in myself. She encouraged me, she pushed me, and she never let me say I couldn't do something. Just when I'd think I'd pushed myself to the absolute limits of my fat-girl, non-athletic, brainy self, she said, "Nope. Give me more. You can do this." Some days I hated her. Most of the time I thanked God for her. This is what my exercise regimen looks like today, 18 months and 80 lbs later: 45-60 minutes of high-intensity circuit training (a variety of cardio, body weight, kettle bells, hand weights, and free weights -- whatever she throws at me) three times per week. Short run (1-2 miles) and 45 minutes of cycling one to two times per week. Longer run (2-4 miles) or additional circuit workout once per week. Occasional extras like yoga when I feel like I need it. I do think this is more than the average woman my age. It's certainly more than most of my friends do (although I also have "skinny" friends at the Y who do that much and more). And it is far and away more than I ever thought I could do. But I don't consider it "extreme," as someone called it earlier. It is what I have to do to keep my body healthy. It is not easy, but it is worth it.

Good points. I wonder if we can figure out how to come up with the money to redo the kitchen up front. Then we could work on the rest piecemeal.

The problem is that there really is no primary happiness suck, unless you count the master being upstairs, which I would not prefer. But it's do-able. The big issue, I think, is that it's not what I imagined us buying. I don't dislike it; I just don't know that I love it. But as I said, it's growing on me. Maybe I just need time to adjust to the idea. It really does have 99% of the things we were looking for. Hey, I asked. Blunt is just fine. Since I didn't want a Victorian in the first place, this actually makes me feel better. All the frou-frou would make me crazy, so I'm glad there's none of that. That would probably be a deal-breaker. Maybe there is hope for making it a farmhouse after all.

That's interesting. Are you thinking primarily about the interior or the exterior? Would love some more details. The house was actually built in 1989, so I guess that makes it a Victorian copycat, not a "real" one. :D (FWIW, I don't really like the front door either. But I would change it to fit more with a farmhouse style.)

Yes, I do have to spend more time thinking and working on my weight than other people do. My mother, for example, who maintained a healthy weight with hardly any effort at all until she hit menopause. She still makes almost no effort and, even with the weight gain, isn't significantly overweight. Both my sisters, same way (except neither has gone through menopause). But -- part of what makes it easy for them is that they naturally gravitate towards healthier choices. They naturally want to eat healthier food, in small amounts, and be active. They don't know how to sit still, actually. I tend to crave sweets, have very little regulatory ability when it comes to fullness/hunger, and naturally prefer to think rather than move. If mental activity burned the number of calories that physical activity does, I could eat my weight in ice cream every single day! :drool5: I do not consider what I have to do extreme, though. It is certainly more effort than my mom and sisters have ever put in -- precisely because IT IS HARD AND UNNATURAL FOR ME. I have to be much more intentional about it. And I spent a considerable number of years bemoaning the fact that I wasn't like them. My point is that whining about it got me nowhere. It's not fair, but I had to come to terms with the fact that I was going to have to make choices I didn't like, or else I was going to have to deal with consequences I didn't like. Is it moralizing to ascribe the terms "lazy" and "lack of self-control" to the choices I was making? I don't know. But I can tell you that I was (am!) both lazy and lacking in self-control. I have to actively fight those personality attributes (flaws?) every single day. Of course that doesn't mean that everyone with weight problems is like me. But it doesn't mean that no one is, either. And it did me no good when others (like dh) commiserated with me. I needed the truth. But I can only judge myself. I do agree with you that clearly something else is at play when it's so easy for my mom and sisters and so hard for me. And I do hope that research continues to advance so we can understand why that is the case. Because I see a lot of myself in my dd, and I am doing everything I can to give her the tools to deal with her challenges, hopefully before they become the extreme challenges that they did for me. In the end, though, everybody has something they have to deal with. I wish we could come to a point where we all extend a little more grace to others for their flaws and accept a little more responsibility for our own. The world would be a nicer place.

This was absolutely me as well. And it is excruciatingly painful to feel like you are trying EVERYTHING, putting in just as much effort as you possibly can, and getting nowhere (or, in my case, gaining). I have nothing but compassion for those who are going through that. For me, I later discovered that for all that time, emotions were clouding my ability to see myself objectively. I WAS eating more that I admitted, I was moving less than I thought, and I wasn't the hopeless case I thought I was. I don't know why one day I was able to see it. I wish I could figure it out and share it. This is so important to understand. I think it's becoming clear, as others have pointed out, that it's on the "calories out" end of things that there's such a difference from person to person. For me, it turned out that I not only have to reduce the number of calories I take in, I also had to SERIOUSLY increase the intensity and amount of my exercise in order to see any effect at all. Way, way more than other women with my same age/build. Sucks to be me. But it is what it is. Griping about it doesn't help -- ask me how I know.

Sigh. I know. It's just kind of hard to let it go, you know? It was always the plan since we moved in here. That was supposed to be a 3-5 year situation, and here we are, 8 years later, and we're no closer than when we started. Too much life happened. My sister thinks this house could have a very farmhouse-y feel if decorated that way. I think I can see that. It's not one of those very ornate Victorians.