Now you'll be all balanced with two boys and two girls! Congratulations! Austin often tells me the only thing he's lacking in his life is a little brother! :)

But these days, you can't even graduate high school with only Algebra 1 and Geometry, let alone get into college.

This is always a hot topic for me for a multitude of reasons, most of which are driven by my personal experience. First of all, I am the first woman in my family to have a college degree. I took out student loans to get my degree in Early Childhood Education only to graduate during one of those cycles where they were no teaching jobs to be found. I taught 2nd grade briefly, and then worked in a day care center making 50 cents per hour more than minimum wage. I left there after only a few months because the working conditions were horrible, and I could make twice as much money working at a bank (which is one of the jobs I had done when I was putting myself through college). I have been a SAHM since having children, and have never truly used my degree. I don't think it's a waste, but we paid on those student loans for 13 years. It would have been longer had we not learned about Dave Ramsey. My parents are both very hard-working. My dad has been in retail all his life and has worked his way up into management. He has lost jobs quite often, as happens in retail, but has always been able to get another job quickly through his business contacts, even though he has no degree (and no college at all). My mother works in banking and has also worked her way up from being a teller to now being a Vice President of one of the largest banks in the country. Her bosses are all younger than she is. She had some college but quit when I was a baby because it was too hard to be a single mom and go to college and work. My parents never told me I should go to college. I graduated high school in 1990 and I don't know if it's just the places where I lived, or my family experience, but there wasn't a lot of pressure for me to go to college. In fact, I didn't decide until the fall of my senior year that I was even going to go. There was no other option but to get student loans as my parents didn't have enough money to send me to college. So I've watched them work very hard, but overall be successful because of their hard work. My husband went to college but his heart wasn't it it and he passed very few classes. He ended up leaving college without a degree to become a musician. Once we had Austin, he gave up the "on the road" life and took a low-paying job at his BILs company. He has a good job now, but he has hit the top of his pay scale and we are actually seeing our income decrease as the price of insurance rises faster than the raises come. He uses his musical talents/experience to provide for our family as well. But he works very long days 6 days a week and this won't ever end (unless/until I return to work). Our friends are buying bigger houses, new cars, taking long vacations multiple times a year. It's not easy. I want my children to go to college so they have more opportunities in the world in which they are growing up. However, I have 2 children for whom this is not going to be an easy path, if it's possible at all. My frustration lies in the fact that the college degree is now seen as "required" for any type of decent job or for advancement, and there is a stigma in not having a degree (as seen in the OPs daughter's experience and as seen in threads on this very message board). There really NEEDS to be another path for those kids who are NOT capable of college-level work! We cannot abandon an entire generation of young adults simply because they cannot comprehend trigonometry or the great books! It's just not right! And we've really got to stop assuming that just because someone does not have a degree that they are lazy or a loser or whatever!

I wish I could help you with the self-esteem issues, but we have that exact same problem. Austin was held back by the schools - we kept the 'holding back' intact when we started homeschooling b/c we were planning to put him back in school. Unfortunately back when all those decisions were made, we didn't realize what we were dealing with (Aspergers, later the seizures). Austin really could use a couple of extra school years. But he has a sister coming up right behind him. She's 3 years younger, but 2 grade levels behind. To have them graduate together? Or have him graduate later than her? It's simply not an option. He is very aware of his differences, and he despises them. He is willing to work very hard to try to overcome the differences, but he is limited by his issues. And he is VERY unhappy that he is a year behind in grade from folks his age. VERY, VERY unhappy - he lets everyone know when they ask what grade he is: "9th grade but I could have been a 10th grader". Unfortunately, saying he's a 10th grader just makes his issues worse because he is just going to be making his first attempt at Algebra 1 this coming year. I have similar issues with my youngest. But for her, I just call her the grade that she would be by age. Chances are that she will be living with us a little longer than most kids, so I could graduate her with all her little friends, but continue her education anyway. As for graduating at almost 19, my niece will be turning 19 a month or so after graduation because of where she started school. I think they lived in Indiana which had a June 30th cutoff, and her birthday is the first week of July. However, the moved to CA so now she's in the same grade with kids who are in some cases nearly 18 months younger than she is. And I know many kids who are younger than Reece who have been held back because of maturity in the public schools who will be nearly 19 when they graduate. I guess it's more common now.

I'm going to go against the grain and tell you that you don't need to "stimulate" your child all day long and still make progress. My daughter was diagnosed with autism at 3.5 years old and she was functionally non-verbal. She used quite a few words at that point because she had started speech therapy at 3, but she talked at people or she repeated what others said, or she had a script she wanted you to run through with her and would accept no deviations. We use RDI for our therapy and we started when she was about 4 years old informally and then later with a consultant. The idea with RDI is to slow down your pacing (of your life, your speech, your actions) and allow the processing time for the child to engage with you in meaningful activities. Our first year of RDI we put academics on the back burner (because I have 2 kids on the spectrum and a very demanding middle child who some days seems like she's on the spectrum) and we focused our attention on RDI. But that doesn't mean we spent hours a day doing drills and engaging. I wanted my kids to develop the motivation to want to engage with me, which first meant for me having to drop expectations of "getting something from them". And then we had to work on them not controlling the interaction which was hard for them. And I have had to learn to change my own patterns of interaction with them because I had learned how to artificially arrange things to avoid meltdowns. Everyone needs some down time in their day, even kids on the spectrum. It's stressful to have someone 'wanting' something from you in terms of expectations or demands for proper responses. RDI takes typical child development and breaks it down so the child has a chance to fill in the gaps that may have been missed because of the autism. In time, RDI became our lifestyle. We added back in the academics, dealt with the addition of seizures and epilepsy care to our list of stressors, and got 2 kids through puberty (well, still working with the 2nd one - hopefully we're nearing some stability, soon! LOL). Both of my spectrum kids are pretty much back on their developmental path - my son is dealing with the typical teen stuff like girls, feeling self-conscious, trying to decide what he wants to do with his life. My daughter, because she had so much further to go, is still delayed but is on her own path as well. She is so much more aware of what is going on around her now, and she wants to be a part of the world. I would encourage you to look into RDI. The website is http://www.rdiconnect.com. If you are going to use a consultant, research very carefully and interview a couple of options. We were not pleased with our consultant but wasted too much time thinking it was our problem and not hers. If you decide not to go with RDI, there is still a lot of really valuable information in their books, and in the suggested reading. I especially recommend the book, Awakening Children's Minds. Hope this helps!

I find that very hard to believe!

I'm going to search the boards as this may have already been discussed at length, but is there a certain method for using BCM that isn't overwhelming to the child. I attempted to use it 2 years ago with Austin and it was a huge bust (granted, much different child/much different situation - he never could get over the word 'college' being in the title so we had to drop it). As I mentioned before, she balked at doing 6-8 problems a day in Primary Math. I knew that this was going to have to change this year because she needs to get ready for upper level maths. But I didn't realize I probably should have been requiring more all along. She never needed extra reinforcement before with PM. I've really dropped the ball, yet again. :(

It would certainly be a cheaper option since I already own it.

I was thinking more that she would have to place into Level 5. She does not seem to have retained very much from Primary Math. Or she's just too lazy to really try? I guess I won't know until I give her the placement test.

My 15 year old uses them more than I would like, mostly because my dad and husband use them, especially when they are doing a "guys" thing like camping and fishing, so Austin sees using those words as being manly. And the guys in his band do the same thing. @@ However, during band practice last week, the 4 year old niece of one of the other band members picked up one of the bad words and started using it. So I talked with Austin about being a role model especially in front of ladies. He also used "cr**" on his Facebook page last week, in response to a comment my dad left. I sent him a private message asking him to remove the comment and not to use that sort of language in a public forum. He removed it right away. Riley is just starting to get into the "I'm going to use the substitution words" phase, and has picked up "Shut the front door" from the trailer for that awful movie "Bad Teacher". @@ I wish I could say that I never use bad language, and I used to be much better, but over the last stressful 6 months, I've let more than my share of expletives fly. :( I'm sure that doesn't help.

No, hadn't given the placement tests yet. Looking at those is a little intimidating. I hope she actually places into Level 6. :( There are a number of things that Primary Math didn't cover, at least not through 6A.

Hi, Colleen! Good to see you!! I just started training for my first (and second) marathons! I'm crazy enough to be attempting to do two in 6 days. Don't ask. I got sucked in to it. Anyway, wanted to ask if there was a special way you combined Key to Algebra and Lial's. I'm wanting to do this exact thing for Austin this coming year but didn't know how to go about doing it. If you have a secret recipe, it sure would save me some time! Hope you're doing well!

This is a good question! LOL Riley has always done Singapore Primary Math and she is almost done with 6A, but I just got her ITBS scores on Friday, and her math scores dropped quite a bit. (Her scores dropped overall, but math was the worst) I'm not sure if there is enough practice in Primary Math for the concepts to stick in her head. Of course, she also ran head-long into puberty this school year and spent 2 hours a day on math crying and telling me how hard it was and how awful I am for making her do an exercise every single day, and a review over 2 days. I mean, y'all have seen the exercises in Primary Math. Really? :confused1: So I am now searching for options - Horizons (Level 6 or Pre-Alg??) tops my list, but maybe something like CLE would work. I have BCM but I'm not sure if she is ready for something like that. She's a smart girl, but she's also a drama queen whose hormones have gone nuts. So here I am... reading math threads for inspiration! :)

In GA, if your home study program is not accredited, then you have to score higher than the 85th percentile on the SAT or ACT to get HOPE in advance. If not, but your child goes to college and earns a 3.0, you can get paid back for that coursework and then are eligible for HOPE the following year. http://www.gacollege411.org/Financial_Aid_Planning/HOPE_Program/Georgia_s_HOPE_Scholarship_Program_Overview.aspx According to the information on that link, the coverage amounts won't be full tuition but will vary according to which college your child attends. I hadn't heard of that before. All of the details should be on that link. Hope that helps!

This is what Abbeyej suggested (and my history-loving husband concurred) when I told her that I now had to completely re-do the plans for the upcoming year that I JUST created. So I'll do a government study over the next year and a half or so - nice and slow readings to fall in nicely with our CM leanings. Now I just have to decide if I want to use The Complete Idiot's Guide to American Government (as suggested in WTM) or Civics in America (suggested by Abbey).

Nan, I also wanted to add that I hope I wasn't contributing to your feeling badly. I often have to take breaks from the boards because I feel incompetent when I compare our home school to the folks here. But I am getting better at realizing that I cannot compare and I should not compare. We are just embarking on high school for the first time and I'm feeling a lot of pressure. My son has special needs and his high school will look different, but I will do my best to challenge him on his level! I just have to remind myself of these facts and try not to take things personally! That's my issue, not yours!

Nan, I have really been enjoying the thread and all of its turns. Specifically, I've been interested in the discussion of the nuances of language, as this is the very thing we champion in our autism therapy (RDI). We need to teach a child so much more than "speaking" - our goal is "communication" which is infinitely more complex.

OK, I think I found my answer: "We have provided a number of different retellings of Greek myths and stories; pick one or several." I think I'll let her pick one and she can read the others on her own time if she decides to.

Yes, it's the list in TWTM. Thanks! This list seems very different from the Early Modern and Modern lists that she's already done! I'm all confused!

I searched and could not find the answer to this question, so I apologize in advance if it has already been addressed previously. We will be studying ancients this coming year so my 7th grader will be reading the ancients list. The instructions say to read the books in the order listed, but I notice there are 4 versions of the Iliad/Odyssey listed: The Tale of Troy by Green The Trojan Wars by Coolidge The Children's Homer by Colm Black Ships Before Troy by Sutcliff Is she supposed to read each of these? Or are we supposed to pick one of them? Somehow, I own the first 3 and the last one is at the library, so we could read them all if that's what we're supposed to do, but it seems there is a lot of repetition. There seems to be a lot of repetition with Greek Myths as well. But that's Ok if that's what we're supposed to do. Just want to make sure! Thanks!

I would say you are describing my 12 year old. Since she has 2 siblings on the spectrum, I have considered that she, too, may be on the spectrum - but I have a hard time pinpointing the exact criteria in her. I have considered that she may have ADHD, but again those criteria didn't really fit. I read Strong-Willed Child, or Dreamer? and that really sounded like her, but it doesn't mean she doesn't also have something else going on. I called my other kids' developmental specialist to see if they could offer a suggestion but they didn't call me back - need to follow up on that. She also hit puberty hard this year, so I have considered that it has something to do with that. I have also considered that it's just the result of the awful parenting she has received - when she was a baby, I was busy dealing with her autistic older brother. When she was a preschooler, I was busy dealing with her autistic baby sister. She does NOT respond to punishment. She has lost dance classes, her phone, she hasn't touched her ipod in over a month - and it doesn't change anything. If you find the secret, please post again and let me know!

Wow, I love this quote!

The problem is he will not accept that. He is already a year behind his age-mates because we 'held him back' and so will graduate after his friends. And he would not want to graduate with or after his younger sister, either.

I thought that just happened to us!!!

I have to venture into these sorts of threads lightly. But I might as well not ignore it, because this is just one of these areas that I'm going to have to come to terms with as I begin the high school years with a special needs child who I want to educate classically as best I can. I'd love to know your opinions on this question I've been asking of myself as I plan for this coming year: Would you rather educate your child (and I'm coming from a special needs/LD perspective here) using the more rigorous materials, and have them not go as far with the materials? Or would you rather use a less-rigorous "high school level" material so it can be done? For example, I remember reading somewhere that SWB says that with a child who has LDs you just stay in the lower stages longer, maybe not ever getting to rhetoric stage. Can you still issue a high school diploma for this? Or is that an example of dumbed-down education? This coming year I have been planning to use Key to Algebra and, after a few months, start Lial's Introductory Algebra. The two of those together would be our Algebra 1 credit. But chances are that it would take longer to complete Algebra 1, so we might not make it past Algebra 2 before graduation. I could call Key to Algebra "Algebra 1" by itself but I want him to be able to continue with math as far as he is able to, and I don't think that Key to... alone is enough. Perhaps it would be better to use the less-rigorous MUS and get through maths that way? Math struggles are going to require us to approach science from a different perspective as well, because of the upper level maths required for upper level sciences. But this leaves me to decide how to develop my own high school science that is "high school level" without being overwhelming to my son. Just curious for other POV as I ponder these realities for my own situation.