Claremont McKenna has lots of good combinations/variations on the theme of politics/economics/policy, etc. They aren't as strong in foreign languages, but I think Pomona is and with the consortium, courses at other schools are available.

I agree with this, and saying this as gently as possible...I would just get out of the way and be quiet. I know it's hard. If you are paying for his schooling and have a standard that he must meet (certain grade-point, etc.) in order for you to continue to be willing to pay for his schooling then that absolutely must be communicated, but in a matter-of-fact way. I'd give a semester grace period (that's how most academic scholarships operate, I believe, and really, if you are paying for his education that IS a scholarship), but tell him what you expect and then get out of the way (that wasn't said very gently, was it!). It sounds like he is well-aware that he is having issues. His reaction seems to indicate that he is stressed. Your "help," is not being well-received anyway, so I would drop it. Express your expectations as dispassionately as possible and see where he winds up at the end of the semester. Don't ask about grades, etc. Listen if he wants to talk, of course, but your advice (which I am certain is spot on) is falling on deaf ears. If he doesn't want your advice, your offering it will only tick him off. Now, if his staying up until 5:00 in the morning is having ill-effects on the rest of the family because he is keeping them awake or whatever, that is a different issue which should be approached, IME, in a different way. If he is constantly being unpleasant, again that is another issue. Should be approached in a "common courtesy among the family is expected," kind of way. The consequences of his choices shouldn't be foisted upon the family. At some point, children want total ownership of their academics. I think this can be a particularly difficult transition for both the parents and children who have come out of home schools. Parent has been instrinsically involved, kid is used to relying on parent, etc. You are viewing what you are doing as helpful; he is viewing what you are doing as telling him what to do. Just my take, but advice is always worth what you pay for it! ;)

Can I just say how fun this thread is each year? And can I add that it is particularly fun when having this process behind us and viewing it as a mere spectator rather than a participant? :D I know it's wonderful having those safeties in, but I also know it is grueling waiting on those reaches. Hang in there, folks!

As far as discrimination goes...I think it's pretty common knowledge that Asians are considered ORMs and have to be *that* much better to get into top schools. As far as URMs having an advantage over those of us in the Wonder Bread category, I'm not sure. What I wish schools would truly seek is diversity among socio-economic classes more than among race. Those two don't always correlate. As far as checking the box or not checking the box goes...and I hope this isn't racist (! is it? I'm just asking the question), but aren't some Asians going to be more readily identifiable as such by their last names? And to some extent, Hispanics as well? I mean, "Smith" or "Jones" isn't identifiable as anything in particular at all.

Update: I talked to my friend for about an hour this morning. Her company has offered her a position in her current location in Tampa that is equivalent in pay to what her promotion was going to be in NC. She has decided to remain in Florida near famliy and friends. She had already signed a contract to sell the Florida house, however, and she still has the house in NC. Not sure if she can get out of the Florida house contract or not. She is going to try. If she remains there, she will refinance it using some of the life insurance money to pay down on the balance of the loan and get her payment to an amount she can afford. If she has to go forward with the sale of the house, she will downsize. Editing again - she was able to get out of the contract to sell her current Florida home so she and the children will remain in the same house. I am very thankful that her company gave her this opportunity. I do think remaining where she will be best for her and her children emotionally. Yes, there are still some issues to be worked out on with the houses, but I think any financial losses will be offset by the benefit of staying in a familiar environment.

Whether rightly or wrongly, I do think cost is a big factor in why some kids only look to the State Us. That and just plain old risk aversion. For the most part, kids coming out of ds's high school are going to get into our state flagship (though I do know of one boy who did not), but we aren't talking about a school that's real high up the food chain here. It's not Michigan or Florida or schools of similar ilk. Because it's local, no one questions going there - it's a logical choice for many. In fact, the GC encourages ALL students to apply there. The merit money is rather stingy and not as cut and dry as it is as some other schools (such as Alabama), however. But parents, in particular, feel like they know exactly what they are getting themselves into by sending Jr. to the local Big State U. Trying for anything else is unknown territory and, thus, "risky," both in terms of admission and cost. I have heard the GC encourage to students to apply to privates that are MUCH more costly saying, "You never know what might happen with merit and aid." I think it takes a particularly mature kind of 18-year-old to take that risk. This happened to one of ds's classmates last year. She fell in love with Tulsa. She did get some merit money there, but not enough and her parents did not qualify for need-based aid. Gapped as many on here can relate to. She kept trying to get her ACT score up (another stressor) to qualify for more, but it just didn't happen. She wound up at an out-of-state regional U (her mother's alma mater) for less than our state flagship (so there's a lesson in applying to MORE right there), and is doing great there. But, honestly? Their family could have saved themselves a lot of angst and tension had she skipped applying to Tulsa altogether. She was a good student, but not a tippy top student, and I don't think the "you never know what might happen," was a good line for her. It was pretty clear she wasn't going to get enough $ from them. For folks in certain economic situations, though, it can very well work out that a private will be cheaper than the in-state public. BUT - you have got to have a top, top student AND one who knows they will qualify for financial aid. Otherwise, there will likely be a significant gap between a private college cost and paying even full-freight at the State U. Our state U has a COA of around $22,000. As an example, ds got into some private schools with approximately $20,000 in merit money. That brought the COA on those down to $32,000 - $42,000 per year. That's a significant difference over four years. Qualify for some in-state merit scholarships (if they exist) at the Big State U and the difference becomes even more significant. So, for PARENTS, I think there is a risk in letting your kid explore too much. No one faults anyone for just going down the road. It's safe. It's almost expected. In fact, there can be lots of "Isn't State U good enough for you?" kind of questions when you start looking farther afield. Some parents just say - "You're going here," and that's the end of it. If that's what they want to do, I don't think GCs should be placed in the middle of that kind of situation urging kids to apply to more schools just for the sake of having some random number of applications. Teachin' - I am right there rambling with ya'!

Ds's charter school required that students apply to three colleges. It has been a school rule for a long time, though I must confess, I really don't know the rationale for it. The school boasts 100% college placement (though there are usually one or two students each year who enlist in the military. Even those must apply to three colleges even though they do not plan to go. Otherwise, the school couldn't claim the 100% college placement rate), so perhaps it's for extra cushion to make sure everyone does get in somewhere. Our town is the home of the state flagship. I would say that approximately 50% wind up there, but I do wonder if the requirement is to prevent the "one and done" mindset. Other state schools have lower threshholds for merit money, so perhaps that is a reason as well??? Out of ds's class, 70% remained in-state, but that includes private colleges as well. Our counselor situation is excellent. She is conducting a meeting for parents of juniors one evening this week. She discusses the process with parents and encourages them to allow the students to own it. She also discusses financial aid forms, different types of loans, etc. She conducts another round of parents' meetings early in the fall of the students' senior year. She visits all the English classes (easiest one to work out of since EVERYONE has English) two times during junior year to talk to students. Students are expected to have a pretty solid working list of colleges by the end of their junior year. Students are required to take either the SAT or ACT once per year beginning freshman year. While this school is open enrollment, the standards and expectations are high. With only 70 or so seniors per year, the GC really has the time to work with them (even though she also does class scheduling and regular standardized testing among other things). If she has any faults, it's that she tends to push small LACs, and that she lacks a personal understanding that some students LIKE big college sports. She freely admits these biases, though. ;) The other area public schools are HUGE and sorely lacking in counselor resources. Ds has a classmate at college from a nearby HUGE public school who did not know there was such a thing as SAT Subject tests until her senior year and had to scramble to get them done in time. I don't think her counselor knew that some colleges required/recommended them or even what they were. I think, again, this is mostly because many students just go down the road to the state flagship. The few students at the large public high schools who are aiming high tend to hire private college counselors. It almost seems like the CB is putting pressure on counselors to do a better job - the assumption being four choices might offer a boader spectrum of options - but I don't see how that's any of their business.

Congratulations! Do you mind my asking what school this is for? I know amounts vary by school. Ds only applied to one school last year that offers the Stamps (University of Mississippi), but he was not offered the opportunity to interview for it. I believe the Stamps at Ole Miss covers everything, while others schools that offer Stamps (such as Notre Dame) have fixed dollar amount associated with them. Please correct me if I am wrong. Good luck to your dd!!!

Ds is already three weeks in having started classes on January 5th. So far, so good. We only talk to him once a week for about half an hour. He upped his number of units this quarter, though he has a couple of courses (not many units worth) that are credit/no credit. One is a Spanish conversation class. He will take the third quarter of 1st year Spanish in the Spring quarter, but has had no Spanish since graduating last spring. I think this is a good way for him to get back into the language before he takes the full-blown course. I think his overall course load is a bit more rigorous, however. This quarter is a bit more balanced between courses that are writing/reading oriented and those that are STEM oriented. On the fun side, his freshmen dorm took its ski trip to Lake Tahoe. He said about half the kids ski and half do not. He was in the latter group, but they ice skated and played in the snow. Definitely a good bonding time all crammed into cabins. He is participating in a 24-hour Dance Marathon in a couple of weeks and surpassed his fundraising goal. Makes me tired just thinking about it!

No. ETA: Actually, I believe there was some speculation about this - that it might be worth a shot. The report I read said that they do not know how long rejected students' records are kept. I don't expect records will be around much longer for anyone. My understanding is that it is Admissions' discretion as to how long any students' records are kept. Once the request is made, they cannot be destroyed, but I don't think that applies if they have yet to be requested. The consensus I am seeing is that if students (at least Stanford students) want to see their records, they need to request them ASAP.

Really? Can these folks also address the issue of accommodations? I realize that one can have LDs but not choose to pursue accommodations, so we don't know if he had the latter or not. Is having accommodations confidential? Maybe that's what I was thinking of. I suppose even if they are, that right would be waived if the student indicated s/he had them. But maybe they aren't confidential at all???

Okay, I'm not getting how the LDs are a hook? Do we know specifically that he wrote about overcoming them? They aren't disclosed, right?

Oh, gosh, *LC. I had a really long reply typed out, but it somehow got lost??? When I clicked to post it, I got a very strange error message???? The gist of my reply was to thank you profusely for sharing your information. I am so very sorry about the loss of your husband. I imagine that your thorough replies brought back sad memories for you, and I so appreciate your willingness to share and to care about my friend. I don't disagree with you on many of your points. My friend is waiting about four or five weeks before she relocates. Maybe she will change her mind??? I am many states away. I am opting not to attend her husband's memorial service this weekend but will go visit her soon after she moves. If for some reason she decides not to go forward with that, I will go visit her in Florida. Thank you for your kindness and compassion.

Thanks to all of you. I am not passing any of this information along to my friend right now. Just trying to arm myself for the future. We have a mutual friend in Florida (the three of us were thick as thieves in high school), and she and I plan to go see her not long after the move to help her get settled. She is getting some sort of bereavement leave from work for a time. Yes, the college is only one aspect of her decision-making, but the reality of it is looming since her daughter is already a junior. Please, let me be clear - in no way, shape, or form was I trying to inquire about "hiding" assets. My main question was as to what, if any, benefit she might get by paying down or off her mortgage since I know liquid assets are highly "assessed" when looking at finaid. With his income lost, she is definitely going to have to reduce the amoung of the mortgage anyway, so she will be going through a refinancing process which means she has to figure out how much additional she needs to pay off. I was only wondering if there was any advantage to paying all of it off. That decision will primarily be driven by what she can afford to pay on a monthly basis. While she could always tap into her equity through a HELOC, that isn't as easy as having cash readily available. It's a matter of finding the proper balance, kwim? @TechWife - I had seen the book rental program on their site, but there was no dollar amount along with it. Thank you. @Jules - good information on the retirement accounts. I will ask the mutual Florida friend as to what type he had. Also very true about the memory issue. I know how it is. Everyone is trying desperately to help, but everything is so incredibly overwhelming at this point in time. Thank you, again. ETA: I also agree that she probably needs to strongly consider downsizing once the son is out of high school. She may wind up with a hit on a house she will have only had for two and a half years, but I think it would be a good choice.

Thank you so much *LC. I can feel your concern for my friend coming through your post, and I truly appreciate that. The article you referenced will be very helpful. I have not yet had time to look at it thoroughly. Part of the challenge is that her position in FL has really been eliminated. That was a big part of their decision to move. Her company said she could remain there and continue working for them, but this would involve a demotion and a reduction in pay, which she really cannot afford with his loss of income. The reality is that the best long-term *financial* decision is to go forward with the move. I had wondered if her company would buy her out of her new NC house since it was willing to buy her out of the Florida one. I don't know if she inquired about that or not, but it's moot now. The best short-term *emotional* decision is probably too remain where she is with a support system around her. They were already scheduled to move (movers coming, etc) when he died. That obviously got pushed back. Additionally, since they are not home schoolers, her kids need to get to the new school, so there really isn't six weeks. They had closed on the NC house on December 30th, and he was hospitalized on January 10th and died on the 14th. They were scheduled to move on the 16th. It really is just terrible, and I am so sad for her. She says she is at peace with the decision to move. They are both native Floridians, but her husband had lived in that same town his entire life. Their children were attending the high school he attended. I do think remaining there would always make her his widow. I just hope they all get some counseling once they get where they are going. She knows this needs to happen. I think the part of the decision related to college choices was that there would be more to choose from nearby. Additionally, UF can be tough to get into these days (of course, UNC- Chapel Hill is as well). My friend and her husband both graduated from UF, so I think they considered many factors for college with the move, though I don't know what all of those were. I don't have a clue how Bright Futures works, though I have heard of it. I believe my friend has already decided that Appalachian State can be a financial safety for the daughter. I looked it up and it's net cost is only $13,000 per year. Doesn't incude books or spending money, but it really is a good value. If she set aside the same amount out of her earnings that she will get from the daughter's SS, then the daughter would be really close to having all but those expenses covered at Appalachian State. She would likely be somewhat "underschooled" there I fear, but at least it will be affordable and she would be able to come out without any debt. The younger brother will most likely start at a CC anyway. I am really hoping the daughter will meet the cut-off for National Merit as that will open many doors for her. My fear is that, at this point, she won't qualify for much financial need because of that $500,000 of life insurance. And, my friend's salary is decent. I just think much of that nest egg is now going to get "eaten up" for college costs unless she chooses a school that is much less expensive. My friend really needs the nest egg for herself. The daughter may have to take privates off the table. They are definitely going to have to be in one of those "wait and see how the money works out" positions. Thanks, again for taking time to respond to my long and convoluted post.

A lifelong friend of mine lost her husband very unexpectedly less than a week ago. There are two teenage children, one a junior and one a sophomore in high school. Additionally, their family was scheduled to move from Florida to North Carolina two days after he died. After much consideration, my friend has decided to go forward with the move. They were moving because of her job which was a promotion for her. Additonally, they felt there would be better college opportunities for their children in NC than in Floriday. The elder (the girl) is a strong student. The younger (a boy) is not. They had closed on a home there on December 30th. So, right now, she has two houses and two mortgages. However, her company will buy her house in Florida if it does not sell. I am not sure of the time frame for this, but I don't think it is a huge issue as she was receiving offers on the Florida home while her husband was in the hospital. This is what I know: New house cost = $450,000. This is about what they are expecting to get out of their Florida home, but I do NOT know how much equity they have in the Florida house. I believe her income is around $110,000. His (now lost) was $88,000. Children will receive about $15,000 per year from Social Security until they graduate. My friend wants this money to be earmarked for college. Each child has a 529 which currently has about $30,000 in it. He had $500,000 in life insurance. Not much in the way of cash laying about - let's assume about $25,000 in savings. Both had retirement plans (no idea how much is in there). My financial concern (besides her being able to meet her living expenses) is how that chunk of cash from his life insurance is going to affect any potential financial aid her kids might receive for college. Right now she is trying to figure out what she wants to do on the mortgage on the new house with regard to both her month-to-month expenses and how having equity in her home rather than liquid assets might be beneficial when colleges look at aid. We did NOT qualify for finaid, so I need y'all to speak slowly. My understanding is that for FAFSA purposes, the primary residence is NOT taken into consideration when determining aid. What about the CSS profile? My understanding there is that results are all over the map depending on the school. Do CSS schools consider the value of one's primary residence when determining aid? Is there any benefit in paying off a substantial chunk of the mortgage aid-wise? This, of course, is not the only consideration. My feeling is that she needs to "back into" a mortgage payment by determining the rest of her living expenses first and seeing what she can afford to pay. Set the amount of mortgage based on that. But, I digress. Also, is it true that the amount of "sheltered" money (liquid assets) on the CSS profile varies from school to school? Is there a set percentage above the sheltered amount that one is expected to contribute to education? What about on the FAFSA? Our school's GC says to count on being expected to use 12% of your liquid assets toward college when working off the FAFSA. Is there any benefit in putting his social security benefits into their 529 accounts? It will restrict access to that money for education, but if it goes into the 529 doesn't it become a parental asset instead of a child's asset? Does that help? I really don't even understand how (IF) the FAFSA and CSS work together. Sorry. I know this got long. I can help her with some things college-ish, but I know NOTHING about financial aid other than anyone can get Stafford loans IF they want to. The daughter is going to be right on the cusp of earning National Merit, so they cannot count on that. Just won't know until next September. She has not taken the SAT or ACT yet but has good grades. Obviously, they will be looking for merit where she can get it. Thanks in advance for any insights you can give me.

I agree. Just "reporting" reasons I am hearing as to why some students want to request the info. I, too, doubt that any URM references will be in there. And, looking for info to help siblings is likely pointless as well given their holistic approach.

Talked to ds this afternoon. He had already put in his request and said about half his friends had already done so as well. He said he figured it couldn't be "bad," since he was accepted (though he was initially deferred in REA), and he was just curious. Other than curiosity, reasons I am seeing/hearing include wanting to know for the potential benefit of younger siblings and wanting to see if URM status was a factor. No idea if the latter info would be there to see or not. One kid on CC said, "All my friends said I only got in 'cause I am a URM. We'll find out."

OMGoodness - like, like, LIKE!! So funny!

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/17/us/students-gain-access-to-files-on-admission-to-stanford.html?partner=rss&emc=rss&smid=fb-nytimes&bicmst=1409232722000&bicmet=1419773522000&smtyp=aut&bicmp=AD&bicmlukp=WT.mc_id&_r=0 ETA: Here's a link to a BuzzFeed article on the same topic: http://www.buzzfeed.com/mollyhensleyclancy/heres-how-to-see-what-college-admissions-officers-wrote-abou#.dkenVemVm

Lol!

I understood what you meant. That is one of of my pet peeves as well. However, *we* were the ones who had to visit, as ds certainly didn't have the financial means to pay for airfare to visit schools 1,800 miles away. Nor did he, as a 15-year old, have the ability to rent a hotel room when *we* visited schools 1,800 miles away. We had two separate airline trips to California, one to DC, and driving trips to Houston and St. Louis. That had to involve "we." I did not contact any admissions people, change wording on essays, etc. Ds registered on-line for on-campus visits, arranged trial music lessons, and handled the scheduling of alumni interviews required. Nevertheless, if questions arose involving FINANCES, I did contact financial aid offices. "We" did not qualify for financial aid, so I wanted to make certain that a FAFSA was NOT required anywhere ds received merit money. Too big of an issue to leave to a 16-year old boy, IMO. I get it. I posted on the other thread that *we* did not make a college decision. However, IME, parents certainly have to be involved in the process.

Okay, I must be the odd one out. While I thoroughly enjoyed having ds home over winter break, I was not sad to see him go back at all. It was time. He was ready. I was ready. I am a person who thrives on routine, and that simply does not exist when he is home. All his friends are great young people, but they are ALL so willy-nilly and last-minute when it comes to planning. Always hard to know if he is going to be home to eat which makes it hard to get motivated to fix nice meals. If I did, he would invariably go out. If I didn't, he'd invariably stay in. Gosh, I hope this doesn't sound like I love my routine more than I love ds! We did have a lot of fun together over the break, and it was a nice mix of his being home alone with us, his having friends over, and his going out or to the homes of other friends. Perhaps it is somewhat different since he is an only? No siblings to hang with at home. Mabye I'm just a bad mom.

That is exactly what we did. Those items (books, travel, and personal expenses) for us are basically "off the books." We really don't include them in our budgeting for college costs. It's too variable. As an example, we have no idea if ds will come home for Spring Break or not. He's to let us know three weeks ahead of time if he is. I have to wonder if some of the higher end schools that have higher costs is a result of lower endowments. Although, they are ALL high! I mean, what's $3,000 or so when you are in the $65,000 range!

I think the total is pretty typical for many privates. You can google the name of the school followed by "cost of attendance" to see expected costs. These types of "fees" are not usually itemized with as much detail as is on the bill, but a pretty accurate total is usually listed. Where it can get tricky is when they put in things like "estimated" for books and travel. This amount can vary widely from semester to semester (or quarter to quarter) and is also dependent on proximity to the school. Often they just insert the word "varies," with NO number at all. So, you have to be careful because the bottom line that is presented doesn't include everything. ETA: Here is the link for Stanford's published cost of attendance: http://financialaid.stanford.edu/undergrad/budget/ You can click on the little question marks to see what is included in each category. The personal expenses include dorm fees, PO Box rental, etc. The bill is more detailed than this. As you can see, for transportation, it has "varies." I think this is probably true! But if you aren't paying attention you might not realize that nothing is included in that bottom line total. ETA, again. Obviously transportation wouldn't be on the university bill! It does appear that they factor in some sort of standard allowance for two trips home when calculating financial aid. And, it also appears that there is a way to get that "upped," for FA purposes by submitting something else.