Seriously? Because I am defending her character, I'm defending her post? How do you figure? People are mistaken or even make mistakes all. the. time. In fact, assumptions are made frequently about you here on the board with regards to your posting style. People then come to your defense and say what a nice and honest person you are. Of course we can defend a person's character without defending their actions. You read her blog post and you filtered it through your beliefs. I'm telling you, you are reading it incorrectly. Just like when you said, "Christians whitewash slavery." I read that as all Christians since you did not qualify it. You came back and said you didn't say how many or what type of Christians whitewash slavery. So, I misinterpreted what you said and you are doing that to this blogger. I don't think you can look into someone's heart and mind and determine their intent. If someone knows the blogger, does it not make sense to allow them to help you interpret? But you can't, can you? Just like the above illustrated whitewashing example. If I simply went by what you wrote, I would assume you think all Christians whitewash slavery. I could then draw the conclusion that you believe all Christians are bigots. You said that's not what you were saying so I believe you. Sometimes things are not understood by the reader the way the writer meant them. Can't you concede that point? I was trying to point out that you were the one operating by a double standard. You didn't like her mocking people but you turned around and did the same thing. Now see, I read your second paragraph there as mocking me. Was that the intent? I agree you should call them out and put them on the chopping block if they were real! What you have here, though, is a straw man you have on the chopping block. You're exposing something that doesn't exist. How am I ignoring your points? I've addressed each one and told you why I believe you are mistaken. Just because I think you are incorrect does not mean I'm ignoring you. As to your last sentence, I acknowledged that the post could be considered insensitive and divisive (although I don't agree it could be considered immature) in the post you actually quoted. I agree that it could be the case if you are reading it in the way you seem to be reading it. Knowing the blogger and her kids, I know that it is not those things.

And....I've been scanning the comments on her blog and she classifies her own family as a tier 4 so I guess she's not a "Real Christian Homeschooler" either. :)

It's interesting how different people have different experiences in similar circumstances. I lived in Orange County for 33 years. In my 15 years as a homeschooler there, I definitely had experience with people from most of the "tiers." Tier 1 being the most rare. Have you ever been to the CHEA convention? You can see people from all of the tiers there. :) OK. I think you may be misunderstanding me. :) I am not at all saying that I agree with her categories. I am not at all saying that her post was productive. I am not at all saying that it may not have been insensitive or divisive (I don't think I would say it was immature). My point was that it is interesting seeing what is being read into it when I am actually familiar with the writer. There are many articles, blog posts, forum posts, etc. into which I read my own judgements and attitudes. This is one I would have typically given a little chuckle, rolled my eyes, and said, "maybe she should only think about herself." However, I know this person. So, I have a better idea of how to read it and it just isn't the way other people are reading. Things are being ascribed to her (there is a "right" way to be a Christian, her being middle of the road is just right, etc.) that I just know are untrue about her. So, I am not defending the post or saying that I agree with it. I am saying that I have a different perspective of what she meant by it since I know her. When you put something out there that the world can read (I've seen the same blog post floating around on Facebook today), you have to assume some people are going to misread you. I think that's what has happened here. It's why I try to be extra careful with what I post these days. I've had people mischaracterize me before and be offended or hurt by what I've said. Nothing I have to say is so important as to risk hurting anyone else so I've learned to keep my mouth shut and my fingers still. :) I bet Marty (the blogger) is going to be surprised at her blog traffic and the assumptions about her. Does that make more sense? And, Albeto, this was mocking: And a completely inaccurate assumption about the blogger.

Ok. So we'll return her uncharitable assumptions with uncharitable assumptions about her and mockery?

You live in So CA and have never seen a "1-3" homeschooler? I lived in So CA my whole life until 20 months ago and have definitely seen (and known) many. :)

I understand where you're coming from. Like I said, this is a big reason why I don't write anything on my blog anymore. I'd rather be safe than sorry when it comes to people interpreting my heart and my humor. :)

She does not currently live near me. I'm in the Pacific Northwest and have met plenty of "tier 1-3" homeschoolers.

You're so sweet, Cat. I'm not disagreeing that categorizing hurts. I see people do it all the time. And, many times in the name of humor. Yes. She is well aware that there are non-Christian homeschoolers. :) There is no way this particular person is thinking that her "tier" is the correct one and that anyone is below her. UGH! This is such an uncharitable assumption about her. That's just not how she is. ETA: Sorry my multiquoting is a mess! :p

Not unless you count the cops that were there a couple of weeks ago when Westboro Baptist was standing on our sidewalk shouting their hateful garbage. :)

This is a really interesting thread. As I mentioned, I have personal experience with this family and have for the past 6 or 7 years. She may be overgeneralizing and sterotyping but those who are contradicting her are as well. There are a lot of assumptions being made about her that just aren't true. Being familiar with her (we aren't friends but are aquaintances), I'm sure the blog post is intended to be lighthearted and funny. Her descriptions are pretty right on and humorous for the area in which she lives. She has great kids and they are a "normal" family. Seeing the interpretations is one of the main reasons I don't really write on my blog anymore. I don't want to inadvertently alienate anyone who doesn't "get" me. :)

Hey! I know the blogger and her family. :) I fit pretty comfortably into tier 4 sliding a little into 5 sometimes.

Very handsome, indeed! Wishing him good luck on his audition!

Portland also has the Portland Youth Philharmonic. There's the Portland Zoo. The aquarium is on the coast. Here's the link to the community college. The Portland area gets about 40 inches of rainfall per year. We don't get much in the form of downpours. It's more sprinkling on and off and keeps everything green and gorgeous. Fall is my favorite season here. This blog shows you some of the color we get. Spring brings the Tulip Festival, blooms to the Rose Garden, beauty to Multnomah Falls, etc. Homeschooling laws are easy. You notify the district of your intent and then administer testing in 3rd, 5th, and 8th grade. You just keep the test records. You don't have to submit them. There are lots of different churches but it is not an overly religious place. It's pretty live and let live. It really is a beautiful place!

Here's an example: http://www.apartments.com/20908-sw-edgemont-st-beaverton-or/jqldv14/ This is in Beaverton, OR which is a suburb on the west side of Portland. I'm in this area all the time and it is a nice place. It's close to Orenco Station which is in Hillsboro and has lots of rentals nearby. Orenco Station is a stop on the TriMet which is the commuter train and takes you right into downtown Portland. This area is easy access to everything you could possibly need and the Rock Creek Campus of Portland Community College is not far at all. I would say it is safe. After living in Southern CA all of my life, it is definitely safe IMO. I'm not too familiar with schools as I live father west of Portland and homeschool. :)

Again, I recommend the Portland, OR area! :) Meets your requirements. There is a community college with three full campuses and other satellite location as well as a university.

Portland, OR. :) They claim it's grey and rainy for 9 months out of the year but it's all lies. ;) There's not really any snow in and around town but it's a short drive to Mt. Hood. The fall colors are lovely! It is a very bike friendly place, has Portland State University, has good public transportation, and is pretty safe. It's just over an hour (through a gorgeous drive) to the coast. The Oregon Coast is beautiful. There is lots of sun to be had in OR. A drive to Bend will give you that. It basically meets all of your criteria. :)

OK. I'll take you at your word on that. You simply said "Christians whitewash slavery" in your original post. There was no qualification. Somehow I think if I made a comment such as "Muslims are terrorists" there would be quite an uproar. It would be more correct to say, "a minority of extreme Muslim support terrorist activities." When you just said, "Christians," it sure sounded like you were lumping them all together. And I will look at them. No problem. No way you could have known. OK. I've been intellectually and educationally swindled. See, that would invalidate anything else I have to say on this subject since that's already been decided. And, of course, I'm subjecting my kids to that as well. I should turn in my mothering badge right now. ;) Why would you consider my claims or anything I may have to support them when you already presuppose that I've been swindled and lack intellectual integrity? Not sure how it's a distraction? How can there be an open discussion when you've already decided that I'm self-deceived, swindled, find facts relative, etc? And using phrases like, "homeschoolers just like you" that doesn't seem at all insulting? I'm not personally offended. So you think I can't think for myself (either gullible, self-deceived, duped, etc), that doesn't impact me personally. Again, you've already decided that my arguments are erroneous. So, why would I spend my time and energy sharing them? So, it can be discussed how ridiculous they are, how scientifically illiterate I am, and how I am doing a disservice as educator of my kids, and so other posters can agree with you? So, facts may not change but we may not have discovered them yet or we might not understand them yet. It was once considered fact that the earth was flat. It was once considered fact that everything revolved around the earth. People learn more and adjust their understanding.

Ok, but it was specifically said of me in this thread that I find facts relative and am teaching my son the same. The phrase "homeschoolers like you" was also used direcry to me connected with intellectual gullibility. Were those OK in your above stated post?

Again, I'm so confused. Are these posts directed at me since I had interaction with her in this thread? :confused1: What witch hunt? :confused1: Did albeto not say that "Christians whitewash slavery?" Did she say that I "believe facts are relative" and that I am teaching my son the same? Did she say that YEC capitalize on educational gullibility and then add that they are able to encourage homeschoolers just like me of their position? All I did was respond to those things. I would really love to be enlightened as I try not to bring my own emotion into the debate and I would never want to give the impression that I am on a witch hunt. :confused1:

:confused1: I don't get it. I really don't. I came into the discussion and did express what I genuinely thought. You responded to me and I responded back to you. Then you responded with the post that included Christians whitewashing slavery and homeschoolers like me being educationally gullible. I'm confused at what you are frustrated with? What direction is the thread taking? Do you mean you feel like you are being ambushed? :confused1:

OK...JodiSue expressed my thoughts on this. This broadbrushing is not at all profitable. All Christians, most Christians do not whitewash slavery. Would you like to modify this to "some Christians of some persuasions?" I'll look later. No. I'm not an open heart surgeon. I probably have a better than average understanding of heart physiology since I had a daughter who died from a congenital heart defect and I spent every waking hour studying during her short life but I'm not an expert. When dealing with our heart surgeon, it didn't even cross my mind to consider what he believed the age of the earth to be. That would not affect his ability to operate on my daughter's tiny little heart. Homeschoolers just like me? I'm pretty sure you just called me educationally gullible. I don't know how to go on with a conversation when that's the label I've been assigned. Anything I would say from here on out could just be chalked up to my educational gullibility. For the record. I am not an AiG fan at all. I don't own or use any of their materials and don't agree with their approach. Again, my son is "being taught that facts are relative" leaves no room for discussion. You've already decided that. It's a straw man you've built and then easily knocked over with the ridiculous notion that my poor scientifically illiterate son might grow up to support outrageous claims. Where do I go from there? I don't believe the age of the earth is a fact so I don't believe that fact is relative. I come to my conclusions of "which facts are relative and which are not" the same way you do-by study and critical thinking. I'm sure you don't just read something or hear something that someone declares "fact" and just accept it at face value, right? You engage the subject and verify the "fact" to the best of your ability. Of course we will spend forever-or as long as humankind exists-studying the subject. There are some things that are so vast that it seems impossible to know everything about them. Some facts are simple and won't change-2+2=4. Some things are modified over time as humans develop their knowledge about them. For example, Pluto being downgraded from a planet. That was a fact when I was a kid. No so anymore. Does that mean that when I believed Pluto was a planet that facts were relative to me? I don't think so.

Well, let's see....open heart surgery, flying a plane, wiring a house....those are all life and death matters. IMO, the age of the earth is not. :) I am not giving the age of the earth a pass with regard to critical thinking skills. Quite the opposite, I think. I tell my kids to look at all sides of each argument and use their critical thinking skills to draw their conclusion. What are the important ramifications in the long run? I don't find it problematic coming from an educator. My oldest was a science nut when he was a kid. I provided him with tons of materials on this subject. He read them, considered them, studied them and came to the conclusion that he believes in an old earth. He's a Christian. Why is that a problem? I'm willing to consider why it is. I don't believe facts (such as the heart has four chambers) are relative. On the age of the earth, I don't believe the "facts" are completely established on either side and that humans will spend forever studying the subject.

I'm what most would consider a conservative Christian. This is a subject into which I have put some time. I don't have a strong belief about the age of the earth one way or the other. I would say that I slightly tend towards a younger earth but I'm not committed to it. I'm always open to new argumentation and consideration. My 9yo and I were just having a conversation about this the other day. He was asking if he should still watch scientific shows in which the hosts were atheists or non-Christians. I asked him why he wouldn't since he loves those types of shows. He said, "Well, they say the earth is billions of years old." I explained to him that lots of Christians believe that as well in addition to those who believe the earth is young. I told him that he would have to study it himself and come to his own conclusion. I also told him that his older brother, whom he thinks is the smartest person in the world ;), believes in an old earth. He asked me what I believe and I told him that I see the merit of both sides, that I don't have a strong belief, but that I tend towards a younger earth. I also explained to him that this has nothing to do with one's salvation. I encouraged him to talk to me, Dad, or big brother about the subject any time and assured him that we'd provide him with our honest opinions and help him sort out his thoughts. So, even though I answered with #1 in the poll, I'm not at all dogmatic and am pretty open minded on the topic. And, I can respect whatever conviction others have on the subject. :)

I've been having similar issues. I'm 45. I can't imagine going to the ER for it. Way too much time and money for something that is fairly common. I talked to my dr. about it. She's about my same age. She said it is very common at this age going into perimenapause. She said if it was really affecting the quality of my life, we could talk ablation. I would definitely opt for the office visit.

As I said before, I won't comment on Challenge as I don't know nearly enough about it and don't know if I will even investigate it for my current CC kid. I used a combination of The Potter's School, PA Homeschoolers, Community College, my own courses, etc. for my older kids and they are very successful college students. It doesn't take any certification level knowledge to tutor Foundations and it works out to be $14 per week. You're not risking your kid getting a bad education and it is modestly priced. So, maybe, when talking about CC, the expensive tuition for unqualified instructors should be specified at the Challenge level. And, the whole country club comments are rather insulting, no? I scoff because my community is no where near what I would think of as country club. My 2006 Honda Odyssey with 150K miles on it is one of the "fanciest" cars in the parking lot on community day. The gals trade coupons at lunch time. They tell each other about the deals they got at good will. They share that they are trying to get by with one car while they come up with the money to repair the second. There are no fancy purses, no fancy clothes, no fancy jewelry. No one talks about their weekend on the boat because there isn't one. And, at this point in my life, I am not comfortably well off. I have been in the past. But not now. No one presumes anyone has the same attitude about any of the things you mentioned. I know you say it's not a hard and fast rule but the generalization is just uncharitable. To say that CC is not a good fit for one's family for x, y, and z reasons is understandable. But to categorize people by these character traits doesn't seem profitable to me.