Thankfully they love to nurse and both girls are always down to eat 😂 I think it would be really incredibly awfully difficult to ditch tandem feeding. They are usually hungry around the same time anyway.

I never answered the questions about reversing the order to eating before sleeping. Nursing them asleep and putting them to bed doesn’t work, if they do have reflux then that’s a bad idea too, and if she tries to hold them out to eat after awake time then they tend to not eat as good and fall asleep too soon.

It is a huge blessing that they sleep great at night with her. They have a mattress on the floor and she sleeps between them: not sure what they’ll do when they start being more mobile though. They may occasionally need some mild soothing but not much and I think nursing them individually then has helped them to stretch it out since she doesn’t have to wake anyone up to nurse. She isn’t putting them to bed until the start to get grumpy and tired. They seem to be happy and then tired.

I think I miscommunicated somewhere lol. DD is not waking up two sound asleep babies just because it has been two hours. They don’t sleep good enough for that. And she never wakes them at night. They go 5-7 hour stretches and she doesn’t tandem at night. She occasionally has to wake up one sleeping baby because the other one is hungry and it’s nursing time and she tandem feeds. Keeping them on the same schedule is the only sanity she has rn.

During the day. They sleep a 5-7 hour stretch at night.

Everything says they shouldn’t sleep more than 2 hours or they’ll move into nighttime sleep mode so she wakes them then and feeds them and then has awake time. She isn’t afraid to nurse them to sleep. It’s just that the minute she moves them, no matter how slow or careful or gently, they scream.

They do seem like they are tired?? They get cranky and tired. They are happy after nursing until tired. DD takes them outdoors or reads to them. They seem happy then but then they get tired and cannot seem to go to sleep on their own.

We’ve noticed the same thing with these girls!!!! They seem frustrated and they are smart, you can tell, they have so much figured out already. we joke they want to be toddlers but are stuck in infant bodies

The reason DD resolved to try crib training and letting them CIO (not our preferred method at all!!!) is that she’s tried everything else. Sitting there with them doesn’t work, rocking doesn’t work, etc. The sleep issues are only getting worse and she feels like the path they are on is just worse and worse sleep for them which isn’t healthy. So she didn’t see another way.

They had reflux before their tie release but they don’t seem to have it now? She is severely allergic to cow’s milk so is 100% dairy free at all time. Yes they’ve hated the swaddles for a long time. There’s not a way to really wear two though. I know it would work if there were just one but not two, especially since DD is petite and they are getting bigger now. She’s often said she would just wear a baby if there was one.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/KitchenAid-6-4-cu-ft-Electric-Range-with-Self-Cleaning-Convection-Oven-in-Stainless-Steel-KFEG500ESS/205971736

Wow, just wow. Sounds like your DIL has good boundaries with her mom and trusts you. That is the positive here.

I've loved my kitchen aid with convection. In my experience it is a brand that tends to last longer than others.

Thanks for all of your thoughts. I will try to answer the questions and explain more. They just aren't good sleepers. They rarely sleep in swings, carseats, strollers, etc. It is a lot of work to get them to sleep in the wrap but we can walk around and soothe until they do go to sleep. But that literally takes two people. It requires me or DSIL. She would let them sleep some on the nursing pillow but they are starting to outgrow it. They do not rock to sleep, ever, at all. I've tried and tried. In general, I really feel like these babies might have some sort of sleep issue? They arouse often (even in the wrap) and have a very difficult time going back to sleep when they are wakened. I also think some of y'all are forgetting how much a 3 month old sleeps lol. This isn't a morning and afternoon nap. They are only awake for 60-90 minutes before getting tired and 45 of that is nursing. While I know you mean well, some of y'all are suggesting for DD to be in bed with them for 12 hours at night (which she is doing but hates to be in bed so long) and then to wake up, nurse them for 45 minutes, and then go back to bed with them after 30 minutes until time to nurse again, rinse, repeat? So while it sounds good in theory, would you want to lay in bed with babies for all of the time babies that age sleeps? She already feels so tied down as it is. I've dealt with sleep issues but nothing like this at all. This isn't normal stuff we're dealing with here. I've had to take anything I would think might be a solution for a normal situation and toss it out the window. When DD reads on it, she comes to the conclusion that they may potentially have autism (since many moms with kids with ASD had similar struggles). But they smile and laugh and interact on cue for their age? ETA: they are very aware of everything that is going on too. I think they are fine at night because they know mom isn't leaving. They are deeply attached, which is good, I guess.

TY ❤️

It used to be cheaper on Amazon sometimes but I haven't seen that for a while. It never hurts to check though 🙂

Move here 😂

Just don’t miss my note about Amazon 😂 It’s like $30 more a bag there than the Pamela’s site.

I have no choice since I have a dairy allergy. The vegan is good though. Trader Joe’s used to have a vegan that is good too.

DD made something with a lot of macadamia nuts once and then she calculated the cost and was floored. I think pine nuts are more $$$$ than those though.

Also @Faith-manor it’s much cheaper on the Pamela’s site than Amazon https://www.pamelasproducts.com/products/pamelas-bread-flour-blend-25-lb

The only French bread I’ve found that works good. It is also exceptional for pizza and flatbreads, etc. https://www.pamelasproducts.com/blogs/recipes/crispy-french-bread-bowl-1 I also love the regular loaf bread made with Pamela’s. I don’t buy the little bags though (too $$$). I buy it in bulk, so much cheaper.

The domino effect was I found myself making gluten free French bread dough. ETA: to turn into flatbread Dough is rising. Will this be a flatbread for lunch or dinner? Also crazy random idea, how do you think thinly sliced golden beets would be on such a flatbread?

I like this one but I cut back a touch on the nutritional yeast. I also used slivered almonds since I didn’t have pine nuts. https://minimalistbaker.com/easy-vegan-pesto-5-minutes/#wprm-recipe-container-34850