I've been using BJU Math both the 2nd and 3rd editions and my kids have tested way above the norm. My dd, who was math-phobic, when she came home from PS back in 2nd grade, started using BJU Math 3 (the 2nd edition) and on through until 6th grade and at the end of last year she tested above the 7th grade levels and was ready for Pre-Algebra. She is using BJU's DVD PreAlgebra this year and has done wonderfully. My ds who is 3rd this year has enjoyed all the new revisions to BJU Math from K right on up through 3rd and he has also scored way above his grade level. My youngest is currently using the program for K and he is doing great (haven't tested yet this year). My oldest son who is in 9th is using the BJU Algebra DVD and also doing wonderfully and tests high on his end-of-year test/state requirements. I absolutely LOVE the new editions and am disappointed that Math 4 will not be released this year! I had hoped to use the newest editions but oh well. Why do I like BJU - no drill, no timed-tests, no pressures. The concepts are built on, reviewed and mastered throughout the year. The new editions have a review portion on the worksheet each day and cummulative review at the end of each chapter (you can choose to do or not to do). Lessons don't take hours to work through - maybe 30 mins tops - no tears, no complaining, no fuss. You are free to use the TM's scripted lessons to your needs/child's needs. I've actually been using the 3rd grade this year without the TM because it came out later than the workbook. My son has been doing great and I was surprised at myself that I was able to do the teaching "all on my own." It's doable.

I can not speak from experience on SL 3&4 but have a few thoughts on the HOD (I've used Beyond). Are you looking for an AM history program for just 1 year and that is why you'd use SL 3&4 this year rather than doing Core 3 and then Core 4? I know many SL users find using the combined cores very challenging and this may or may not be an issue for you. Beyond is the first of 2 years for Am History in the HOD scope so the youngers would then be doing Bigger the following year. One thing to consider - would it bother you to repeat Bigger the following year? Maybe not an issue but for some they prefer a year's break give or take. I've heard a lot of positive about Core 3 and 4 being people's favorites - just the list of the books are great but a few things to keep in mind when considering - if you dd enjoys some hands-on, you might prefer Bigger instead. There are scheduled notebooking, drawing and lite craft lessons scheduled throughout that add to the program. You could easily add the extensions and definitely have the challenge. You could take some of the book suggestions from Core 3 to use as readers with Bigger (Core 3 is the first core that ties the readers into the history portion). I find that the decision between using SL and HOD is whether a child enjoys notebooking (I have a child that struggles with writing so that is a challenge) and hands-on assignments versus a child that enjoys reading and being read-aloud to (don't forget this part) and retains most through that style. I would imagine that it would be easier working through 2 HOD programs at once, versus 1 HOD and the SL because of the read alouds in SL but no one said you had to do all of the read-alouds so probably doable, too. Another thing to keep in mind is whether you enjoy/desire that Bible be integrated within the program or something that is handled separately. HOD's lessons all integrate with the bible - she ties it all in through the history and the science but SL is stand-alone. For some it does not matter, and for some it does - just a matter of choice. I'm struggling with the same decisions to be made this year so thought I'd share a few things I've been working through to try and find the workable solution.

I've been using the DVD from BJU this year for Algebra, Spanish and English/Lit. My ds is in 9th this year but we did step down the English/Lit to the 8th grade - good move on my part as he has learned a lot, grown in his skills and overall had a great but very challenging course load. I had started the year with just ordering the Algebra and Spanish but after 2 months of another program looming for disaster I ordered the Lit/Grammar - unfortunately that meant that I spent more than it would have been to just have ordered the complete set of all courses for the year. My son has asked to do all DVD next year and we are going for it. All the classes have scheduleds printed out in calendar form with the assignments listed (although sometimes a teacher on the DVD will change that just like in real life) and they even have a sub (I think that was in Spanish? for the week) so it really is class-like. My son loves the courses. I did look up some more info on their science, bio since we've done physical this, and found that they also offer an additional DVD that includes all of the dissection labs on it (I think it actually has all the labs). I've had issues with the lab portion of coursework because my son doesn't want to do the bio dissection stuff as he is uncomfortable so I've been trying to figure out how to handle this part. I did look at my local area's high school course catalog and on all the lab courses there is a disclaimer that if a child is uncomfortable with dissection for religious or other reasons, other activities will be assigned. Well, this is what would happen with him (or so I think) so I'll find some activities - watch the lab and then do the write-ups. Sadly, in many schools around the country the teachers are doing the labs, not the kids due to cost. I spoke with a child who is in AP BIO and she has done 1 lab and watched all the rest on a video screen in the classroom or observed the teacher. I'm not going to stress - he's not a science major! I found my son could have taken a co-op course, too, but the cost was actually more than renting the DVDs and that didn't cover the cost of gas! Go figure. At any rate, I digress, all to say that we have really enjoyed the DVDs from BJU and he has learned more than I could have taught him and the best part, it has allowed me more time to work with my 3 youngers.

I have looked at the Writing Tales samples but got scared when I read the story and wondered if he'd be overwhelmed. This might be something to get his ideas rolling - they are in there but just trying to find a way to get him thinking. I'm going to take a second look and really think it through - thanks for the idea!

In answer the question about hand muscles and strength - probably. Some days he still writes BIG and then in the same line he'll write a word small or more size-appropriate for the lines and paper. When you watch him write, he holds the pencil as though he is left-handed but when we tried making that switch, it didn't work out. I've done many exercises from the Dianne Craft products about side-dominance but it hasn't change much. I do have him dictate the sentence/sentences to me onto a white-board and he then copies and does a fine job with little complaint. He is a switch-hitter in baseball so he is a lot like his Dad who is left handed but shoots right-handed. Go figure! I'm going to look into the IEW because it looks like something we can work into and stick with over time. That's one of my issues - you find something that works but then the program only goes so far and then you are left trying to find something else.

His other coursework is average to above-average (he tends to run in the B range of grades when he puts his mind to it). Does very well in math and spanish - average there is high B to an A. We do have struggles when it comes to literature/english skills but I knew this and am working on it and trying to keep things on his level and gradually raising the bar. This is definitely his weak spot and was the beginning of the reason why we began the homeschooling journey with him halfway through 4th grade. I do oversee a lot of his work and check up to be sure things were being done. Unfortunately with 3 other kids and a dh that works the evening shift, some days are overwhelming without the evening relief. He has informed me that he doesn't like being watched over, work checked, etc. He says that I don't do that with the other kids (not needed since they work right with me, except for my dd who is 7th and she works just fine and takes her studies seriously). I've had problems like this in January and we worked things out (youth pastor was involved to back me up) but I see this attitude coming forth once again. The draw of the computer is just too much and it has to stop. It is so hard knowing what is the right balance considering the technological-dependent world we live in. If you let them on too often, you have issues; not enough, they are moaning, groaning and you are the bad guy. I don't have problems being the bad guy but sure wish we could find a happy medium. Bottomline is he needs to take ownership of his part in this situation and work to remedy.

My ds, a 9th grader, who has more energy for computer and video game time than putting forth much effort in his schoolwork has me in quandry (at the moment I feel steam out of my ears!). We started the year with Apologia Physical Science but he just couldn't not understand the reading, concepts, vocab - not sure if it was effort, topic (I was told my a friend/hs mom that son was using, that this course was very challenging even for her son who is science-inclined) so after 4 units of that book (or was it 5) I decided to call it quits - just can't, with good faith, give him an F on a transcript so I decided that we had better change gears/directions and so I thought I'd try something different and asked him what he wanted to learn about - he said Astronomy. So I collected a bunch of items (Amanda Bennett unit study, lapbook, workbook, some stuff to make it worth 1/2 a credit - not worried about labs as we did enough of those with the Physical Science) and so he has supposedly been working through this stuff. Come to find out - 6 weeks later that his effort is about half - half done, half not, today he told me he did the research online as he is to do (Amanda Bennett has direct weblinks within the study) and answer questions/mini reports but upon looking on the history of the computer - nope, didn't even visit a science site. Spent 2 HOURS on Facebook! Here it is May. Not sure whether to can the whole thing, start fresh in the fall and he'll have 3 years of science (we are planning on going with all DVD/BJU in the fall) or make him go back and finish this stuff. Just seems wrong to give credit to a student that hasn't put forth the effort! He'd get an F in public school. Help? Suggestions.... And yes, I'm working on the discipline process now - call into Dad on the next step... Heidi

I need some ideas for teaching writing to a challenging ds who'll be going into 4th. We have had such a struggle getting him to read that I have not focused a whole lot on writing until the later part of this year and for that, it has been gradual. He has been working through a handwriting book (another issue) and I picked up an Evan Moor -Draw than Write workbook and he does 3 pages a week (first day you draw and the prompts for the sentence are all included. Next page is a little more by filling in the Who? What? When? Where and then a complete sentence putting it all together and finally on day 3 you are given instructions on drawing and then telling about it with no prompts. Has been working great in getting him going on writing but I'd love something more planned out and more "meat." We are also working on a grammar workbook and that includes some writing, but not a lot. Any ideas? Rabbit trails for me to look at? He, of course, doesn't like the idea of writing (as in holding the pencil so I'm going to work over the summer on a keyboard program to get him typing) but I need more. We've been working through the SL LA 2 Reg but he doesn't like the copywork but we did work through the grammar portions but just didn't end up sticking the writing portions. I've tended to lean more CMish in my approach but wondering at this point, if he's of the CM learning style. He does seem to enjoy workbooks although I am not a big fan. I want to step things up this coming year but not overwhelm him, kwim? Help!

My dd is currently working through the BJU DVD PreAlgebra. She is doing well, although she gets frustrated at times. She will watch the lesson and then sit down at the table and tells me she needs some help with the day's lesson-every single problem rather than just a few hard ones. This didn't happen much in the beginning of the year but as we head into the homestretch, she is looking for more hand-holding than usual. My son is currently working through the Algebra I course and doing well but even he has struggled and he's strong in math. I'm concerned that although she tests well at the end of chapters, that the concepts alone in Algebra I may be just too much for her to navigate just yet and am looking for some ideas for the coming year to keep her growing in her math skills and some challenge but not to make her hate math and get overly discouraged (challenge is fine in doses but I don't want to spend the entire school year arguing over math, if you kwim?). Thoughts? Ideas? I was looking at Singapore, MathUSee (this looks like a lot of problems/drill and is not her) or is there something out there that she could use to just further practice her skills (and learn how to write out the problems, step by step and use formulas)? Help.....

I would not do an overview of 1450 to present - he'll be bored the following year in S&S because, while it looks like a mostly science program, it is not. My son did S&S in 7th and it was a great overview of history - just presented in a different way through the development of transportation - ships for starters which covers the 1400s and such and I would say that the history portion is more concentrated on the 1400s and takes longer than the history portion covered towards the end of the program as this takes on more of the space race and not so much history. It is hard not to tie in history when you are learning about the development of the ship and how it was used from the Ancient Greeks onward. It was a great program but it will feel redundant if you do the same thing again this year. I know, well, then what do I use. I'm in the same boat with a different child as I wait a year for more indepth American history. Perhaps a geography-based study? world cultures?

Thanks to all for excellent suggestions - I always read about the Greenleaf products but always seem to forget to check out the website. Funny about the BF suggestion as I had an old catalog so had just requested a new one. Hmmmm,,,,, lots to think about and discuss with my young man.

My ds, going into 10th, has decided that instead of a BJU DVD course for history that he'd like to study the Middle Ages (something caught his eye with King Arthur's Court and castles). Any suggestions on a program that is laid out, check the boxes, not overwhelming?

I've used Beyond for an 8 year old and this is when he finally began enjoying school and learning. Important to note that I did not use her schedule for reading or math because we were using other things that were working. My son does not like to write but the copywork was just the right amount and gradually grows throughout the year. The books used, which are from Christian Liberty Press, are listed for 3rd and 4th grade. On its face, the program doesn't look like much, true. It looks easy but once you get started, it is a lesson on "don't judge a book by its cover." The beauty of this program is that it doesn't overwhelm the child. Charlotte Mason-style - short lessons that kids retain. The craft projects were not overwhelming and didn't end up in the trash 5 minutes later. Many say the science is not enough and because of the ease of this program, if you do find this so, you can add in your own science. There is not a lot of skipping around in books so the kids are able to get to know the characters and the stories within them. It gradually builds throughout the year so that when the year is finished, their skill levels are ready for the next program. The placement chart is true to its word. I will say that it would be quite easy to use two programs because this program doesn't take all day to complete. You could use Beyond for your 6 year old (be sure they are ready for this, though) and Bigger for the older child but you could use the same read-alouds. Also, if you use Bigger she does offer some advanced learner books that are scheduled out in the appendix to add more to the program. Not necessary but an option. The beauty of this program is that it allows you to get schoolwork done and more time left over to either get to those subjects you never seem to have time for, for example a foreign language, or good old fashioned playtime (and chores that never seem to get done but are needed). I wish I had gone on with Bigger this year for my ds who is in 3rd but decided to try out SL to keep him in the same history period as his two older siblings for my sanity - I'm going back to HOD this year for Bigger as the memories we made studying Beyond were just too precious.

That is the kit that WP is using in their new science program this year. My dd liked the looks of it too! I'm not sure what we'll do after Rainbow for 9th grade - although since I've waited to start Rainbow for 8th, I may use the part 2 which includes Bio for 9th and supplement with some additional biology readings or light labs. My dd is definitely not science-oriented so I'm looking for the exposure to labs at her comfort level and we'll see what happens from there. Science has been the most challenging to find a fit in this house - probably because it is not my strong point, either.

In answer to QAW - I do like it and my kids have really retained a lot. Recently, our pastor at church was covering Jonah and Whale and was giving all this background info about Ninevah and my kids were bored. When church was over they were waiting to hear about something they didn't already know. That was cool because I'm never sure what they are taking in between those ears and retaining - ;-) I am using a combination of both the 4-6 and Jr/Sr high program since I'm teaching a 7th and 9th grader. There are some parts that we've not used (archeaology for example) but I've balanced most of the readings between both levels because they each offer a little bit more - sometimes when the concepts are abstract it is nice to have it presented in an easier text and then the next day it is presented in a higher-level when I read about it from the Jr/Sr high book. We have not read all of the read-alouds but we're comfortable with that. I think it can be a bit bogged down trying to read stuff that you spend some time trying to pronounce names and places of ancient times and lose the flow of the reading. So far the ones we've read we've enjoyed and I've supplemented with a few selections from SL's Core 6/7. We are currently reading The Illiad and unbeknownced to me, my young 6 year old has been listening in and comprehending the story! Reading aloud is something that my older kids have just really gotten into this year and do enjoy (they did attend PS for a few years) so it has taken a year or two to get into a groove with their learning styles and my expectations. We are not the crafty-type family, although my dd is, so much of the hands-on craft stuff was not done. It is nice to know that it is there should I decide to do this level again with my 2 youngers when they are older. I am glad that I waited until they were older to do this level for sure because I think they got the most "meat" out of the program. I will admit, though, that the new Ancients program by HOD looks really awesome and I wish my dd would not have done Ancients this year because I think she would have enjoyed it a lot but what can you do. She wants to do the cultures program by WP but I'm really trying to find a way not to be teaching various programs all over the curriculum map to 3 of my 4 kids (my oldest loves BJU DVDs so he's doing the whole program next year rather that just a few subjects). I'm going to try and find a copy of the Windows on the World and take a peek. I keep waiting for the new 2nd edition ECC samples to come online so that I can get a better feel and see if I could reasonably incorporate the two (CAW and ECC) and make for a great year. I just was really wondering about the retention and impact on their lives of such a program. If it was just learning about where a continent or country was, that could be easily accomplished by a map exercise book - I really want them to walk away with a new perspective on the world around them. I know much of that comes from me and my dh but I think we could always use a little help, if you kwim?

I find myself in quandry about next year's possible curriculum. A big part of me would love to my kids to learn about the world outside the boundaries of the US. I find that they just don't have an understanding of the blessings and ease in their lives by living here. I grew up living in 3rd world countries (Africa, Korea) and could see and experience the poverty and differences of the living conditions in these countries versus the US. My dh grew up in Puerto Rico, although a part of the US, during those years of his youth, the island was pretty close to a 3rd world country (his schooling was unbelievably sparse). As I look at these programs, I think wow! this would be great to do with them but not sure if this changes them. Do they get more out these programs other than making a map and knowing where the country is on the atlas or globe? While it might be fun to make some foods, I don't think I can spend a year doing that each week. I want them to have more meat and potatoes so to speak but also unsure whethere I can add in enough resources (just the cost could be an issue!). Bottomline is I'm wondering for those that have done a course like this - did this change your children. Did they see their world in a new way or is this something that comes later as they mature? Perspective? Thoughts? Ideas?

The ETC online are the actual books with color and auditory enhancement. They are the same lesson by lesson except that if you wanted/needed to use the 1/2 books as that is not included in the on-line program. We used the workbooks for ETC 1-3 and I decided to switch to the online version. It does seem to take some getting used to as the child has to type answers and if they are wrong, well, they have to do it over. You can override the system and place them in any level you prefer rather than starting from the beginning. I have not decided just yet whether the online option is a bust or a positive. I do prefer keeping page by page tabs on my son's reading progress since this is a weakness for him but I'm trying to allow him to work on his own to achieve success. Heidi

In answer to your question about building the habitats that the kids could play in - the answer is probably no. I did AW last year (or was it the year before) and the habitats book talks about the various habitats that the animal lives in and what they need to survive. If my memory serves me, projects for the kids to create these habitats would be a birdhouse or bird bath or creating a garden/vegetation friendly environment in your yard that would welcome wildlife in so you can more closely observe. Definitely not the gladiator walls or submarines that you'll find in HIH. I think my 1st grader would love HIH but I'm finding it hard to figure out when I'd build this stuff. My teen son has offered to help but I have to figure out if that would really happen. I do love many of the WP programs because they offer something different. As for the CAW and ECC - I've been having the same discussion myself. I'd be using CAW for a 4th and 8th grader so I like the ideas of the new improvements with ECC but also don't think my dd would enjoy writing reports each week on a country. I grew up overseas in Africa and Asia and really want my kids to have a better understanding of the world outside the US - not just the different geographical settings but the comparison of what they have here in the US and what others don't have to make life easier - right down to a Christian faith. I like some of the WP books because I think that might achieve that goal but I'm not likely to cook and hold feasts each week from different countries. I still haven't found the right program that wouldn't require a lot of tweaking.... Heidi

My dd is currently working through the BJU PreAlgebra with the DVD course; she is in 7th grade. My oldest son in 9th is working through BJU Algebra DVD course and I've begun to wonder whether my dd will be ready to make that jump next year. So far she has done beautifully in PreAlgebra but there are many lessons (3/4 of the way through the program) in which I have to walk her through the problems because she is unsure of herself in doing the applications. I will wait and reassess at the end of the year. I signed up for the free Lets Go Learn Algebra readiness test through the homeschool co-op and I'll let her work through that and see if she has any missing skills. I do love the BJU math - very thorough and teaches other skills you wouldn't think about - she learned about mortgages and interest rates (hmmmm....something many could have used in today's market) but when I see my son working through the Algebra, I've had to help him through some graphing portions and this is where I think my dd might not be ready to understand, just yet. I could be wrong. I haven't begun to think about plan B just yet should I decide to wait on Algebra. There have been a lot of studies and articles written lately about introducing Algebra too soon and kids being able to pass the tests but unable to use those skills once they reach college so I'm leaning towards the slow and steady path at this point. Heidi

I have had quite a challenge teaching my 9 year old ds who is in 3rd grade how to read. I've run the gamut in trying to find the right "fit" to help him learn to read. I did finally figure out late last year that he was an auditory learner and Hooked on Phonics really helped him get back into reading but I find now that we are at a stand-still. We finished up HOP and I've had him working through SL's Level 2 Regular readers and we are down to the last book. I've checked out a few of the next books from the 2Int. and he's not ready (these are the books used in the first months). There is just a big jump which he isn't ready to make just yet. We had been working through the ETC books (1-3) which were okay and he seemed to enjoy so I went ahead at bought the subscription online for him to continue working through the program (he does enjoy learning on the computer, too). There doesn't seem to be much progress and he gets stuck on concepts and can't move on. I just feel as though I've missed some kind of phonics/language instruction but not sure what. He does comprehend all that he reads and all that is read to him but he still can't make the connection between a long or short O for example in a word. Ever since he learned the long sounds for vowels that is all he's doing (for example). Ugh! I've also had him working through the Phonics Pathways Pyramids to build up some speed - we just work on this about 5 mins. a day. I tend to have a Charlotte Mason approach so lessons are short. I'm not sure what to do next. I've had the vision tested by a Pediatric opthamalogist but he's tracking fine, etc. I am using McRuffy for my youngest who is in K and I was looking at their 3rd grade program and realize, gee, my ds doesn't know any of that and I've been tempted to just order that and just begin working on through but feel like it is a "knee jerk" reaction. I need to find something to work with him - even it is 30 mins a day throughout the summer. Any ideas? Thoughts? Heidi

I am currently working through the Quest for Ancients and I'm using a combo of the 4/6 and Jr/Sr high program for a 7th and 9th grader. We sit down each day and I probably read and discuss with them for about 1 hour at the most. They are given independent assignments for their Make Your Own History pages which are explained. In the Jr/Sr high level they have their own assignment pages that gives them a schedule of what they are supposed to be doing on their own. I find myself a bit selfish in that I want to do all the reading to them because I'm learning so much myself. We don't do a lot of the hands-on crafts and I have not done any videos. My kids seem to be getting enough for them with just the reading and discussion. I think it would help if you could see some of the books used at your local library to see if these are things your child will be able to read and understand. I think for visual learners adding in a video as you go along would be great, too. I'm sure that I could have had my dd (the 7th grader) do all of the assignments on her own but our history time is the time I devote to time spent with my big kids and they pretty much work on all of their other subjects on their own. Just one family's experience. Heidi Mom to 4, teaching 4 in grades K, 3, 7 and 9

"But I'm confused. When you do the dvd's or hard drive, do they send you the textbooks AND the tm's, or just the textbooks and those mom's minutes things? (no tm's)" I am currently using DVDs for PreAlgebra, Algebra, Spanish 1, English/Lit and they all included the student books, teacher manuals, calendar schedules, answers to problems, copies of quizzes, tests, etc and the answers, hand outs, etc. I've needed nothing to add except pencil, paper and the graphing calculator. I do agree, the pricing is steep and the options are few - especially in this economy. Familiies need better options that are cost-friendly. And yes, now that I have these TMs and student books, it sure would be nice to be able to get the DVDs separately when they are needed later down the line (I know you can re-rent them for the following year but I'm not necessarily going to need them the following year due to spacing of my kids. Ugh). Heidi

It is only $20 dollars cheaper than purchasing the DVDs and with the online you do not receive a TM for the subjects but can download or print off. I'm not sure how cost-effective that would really be. I like having my teacher manual to check answers, reread a lesson when help is needed. I, too, was hoping it would be less. I also wish they'd allow you to purchase just the semester course for the Lit/Grammar rather than the whole package. Heidi Mom to 4

I've worked through the Ancients books this year from WP - (at least most of the them). Tirzah and Beauty in the Fields are definitely girl books - good but girl characters. The list changed this year so I didn't know what Polycarp was so I looked it up on Amazon and it was given a 5-star rating and appears to have boys as main characters. Bible Wars and Weapons in a nonfiction-type book somewhat in cartoon form. Personally, I think you could pick a few and use the Sonlight catalog and pick a few more from there and you'd be fine. Typically the schedule for the WP books are just 1 to 2 chapters. The one thing that I've figured out this year is that my kids (who are doing the Ancients for 7th and 9th grade) did not enjoy all of the ancient-period read alouds so we've switched in some other favorites just because. The Ancients tends to have names of characters and places that are hard to read/pronounce and it becomes less enjoyable. Another option is look at some of the read-alouds from the Quest program - coming to mind would be The Golden Goblet (I wasn't sure about this one but someone said to stick with it and we did and ended up enjoying it). The classic Illiad and Odyssey and for boys who really love that war/soldier thing Gladiator. I personally found after been there/done that, that I should have just picked a few from the various programs. And finally, the Illuminations program that was beta-tested this year has used some great literature so you might try checking their list out for some suggestions (they read the Epic of Gilgamesh and Adam of the Road if I remember correctly). Just a few rambling thoughts. Heidi

Thanks for the suggestions. I keep looking at IEW and have been hesitant but think it is probably the best bet - considering I've got 3 other kids to go yet! Heidi