I did a search but not much came up. We are currently doing the free 1 month trial for the Grades 2-3 and my son is doing extremely well - loves it. I'm considering purchasing it but in one screen on homeschoolbuyers coop it says that what you see on the trial is what you get when you purchase - well if that is the case, then there are not many lessons. When you read further (I want to say on the Destination math website), it says you can use the Saxon math or the Destination math interchangeably or just use the DM. Now, if that is the case, wouldn't there be more lessons? The Grade 2-3 has 4 modules (maybe it was 5) and within that are 5 lessons in 1 and only a few in the others. The way the description was written of the program, I understood it to mean you could use either/or (you don't have to use Saxon to use the DM either) but the few number of lessons on DM really has me puzzled. I emailed the coop and they pointed me to the list of lesson correlations to the lesson number of Saxon's math but that was just cryptic. Nobody can tell me how many lessons are you getting? Anybody know?

I tried to search on the forum and I know this has been asked but can't find an answer. Which one of these programs is more challenging? I see some will do Beyond first and then Adventures (if they were considering both programs, of course). I'm down to my final, final, final decisions and want to be sure that I select the one that will be more challenging - learning-wise. My ds (2nd grade) picks up concepts fast and if he is not challenged, he tunes it out. The books used in both programs look like a good fit and he likes some hands-on activity but some is key. I'm using something different for LA and science is fine in either (I know both are a bit light but we are doing a science co-op so this is just extra although he enjoys it.)

Anyone use this program for that level? We watched the samples and my ds seemed to enjoy it but I've been hesitant in the past to use because I don't enjoy history being a regurgitation of facts and dates. It just seemed like the DVD/Online (same content and I know they are using the older book) made the history come to life a bit more than I might be able to achieve using this at home taught by me.

My ds, entering 5th, is behind in his writing skills because we focused more on learning to read and I figured the rest will catch up. I'm trying to plan my school year and really having a difficult time trying to figure out what would work: On a side note, we used WWE 1 last year (haven't finished just yet) and his handwriting improved greatly (he has signs of undiagnosed dysgraphia). Not sure whether to finish up WWE 1 and move on to 2 - is that enough writing? Should he be writing sentences? paragraphs? Trying to figure out what grammar would be a good fit. We tried BJU English (skipped the writing) and while it was fine, the retention was not as much as I hoped when it came to test time. I've thought about FLL 3 but not sure that the memorizing part is a good fit for him. I really like the looks of the grammar books written by WP that seems to gradually build but won't buy them because 1, the readers that go with the program needed are waaay to hard for him (their expectations that a 4th grader can read at the same level as a 6th grader doesn't work for me) and I don't like the whole resale policy so not going there again. Would ILL work or too much copywork? especially if I keep using WWE. R&S 3? I love the the layout of Writing Tales - would this work if I were his scribe? I'm planning on using the SL 2 Advanced readers (he read through all the intermediates last year) but since we're not SL users, don't really want to go with the LA - although I like that style of LA). I keep reading all the posts on MCT but he is not an advanced student and I truly think we need yet another year to cement the awesome progress and keep on trucking. Suggestions..... If it helps, we are going to use SOTW 2 but that doesn't require any writing (although perhaps as the year goes on I can have him write some narrations). We'll return to HOD next year (I miss my HOD, sniff, sniff) but we've covered all the topics in Bigger and that is where he'd place, LA wise). Suggestions... as I keep rambling on and on and on

I agree on the no need to be exposed to all of the "plights" - and I'm not sure that I necessarily would think it be a requirement for my older dd entering 9th to read some of it. I was going to use the program without all of those types of books and frankly not even their read-alouds. Ugh, perhaps there is just not a great, exciting, fun, world geography program out there that is age appropriate. I was encouraged by ECC but had figured we would choose a biography or two but read other books - not necessarily geography related. Maybe I better go back to Plan B. I like HOD but my 5th grader isn't quite ready for the writing in Preparing - maybe I need to rethink.

I've gone round and round and have narrowed down next year's choices to either MFW ECC or WP CAW. I've never used a MFW program so I have nothing to compare on that end but....I've used WP and I've read over time about some of the plight of children books being very sensitive - which is a given. I'd like to use this program for a 2nd grader and a 5th grader and I'd only order the WP exclusives (IG, Travel with Me stuff, MYO, geography worksheets) and the Children Like Me book. I'll find a few readers but will probably pull other books, ala book basket style fro the library and find videos. If I do this - what does the program end up looking like - i.e., is there still enough "meat" in it. Do they learn where the continents, places, cities, traditions, etc. I know MFW ECC looks a little more academic and they play geography games and there are some crafts and the science integration is nice but not a deal breaker. I like the look of the Travel with Me stuff and I'm assuming the spine is Children of Many Lands? Help!!!!

I've struggled and struggled and was set on using Bigger for my 5th grader this year and younger would do Beyond but, after previewing the manual and the scope/sequence, I have figured out that even though WinterPromise American Story 1 was a flop! We managed to cover all the topics and then some so it would be the same stuff all over again for him soooooo... not a good idea. One idea (because I do love HOD) would be to do Preparing but at half-speed. He's not quite ready for all the skills needed - although, hmmmm....maybe I need to rethink. Okay.... So, I have SOTW 2 and the IG and the sheets on my shelf that I could use for my 2 youngers but I really need or prefer to box check a schedule - I've seen schedules on the internet so maybe I could really do it on my own. But, big question here, is the subject matter of the Middle Ages (beyond the castles and knights that boys are so drawn to) really too abstract for a immature 5th grader and mature 2nd grader? Are there any other options out there? The other time frame option would be to study the second half of US History from Civil War times to present but the only program that I could do both with is, ack! WinterPromise AS 2. My problem with WP is that while the books are nice (I don't like the main spine, though) the notebooking pages don't correlate to the readings (they actually fixed this little issue in this year's AS 1 program). Any ideas for a 5th and 2nd grader? Or - some other totally outlandish idea that I hadn't even thought about? They are not workbook-type kids. They love listening to stories. I've actually even considered just working through Core 1&2 from SL (I did an abbreviated/sort of Core 1 with SOTW 1 with my older child back when). Help!!!! My dh needs a budget from me and these two little guys selections are really troubling me. Heidi

I agree - I'm trying to figure out what I'll use for the other half American History for my audio/visual learner for next year. Ugh! I guess I'll stick with my plans and supplement, supplement, supplement. I may actually use the Pacworks books since I've used AAH 1 in the past.

I purchased this set from Teaching Company but I've got a question in how to schedule this program - do you use it half the year? or stretch it over the year with other things? The time period covers up to the Westward expansion so not sure whether to make one year American History Part I and then next year (senior year) American History Part II. If I did this then I'd add in an Economics 1/2 credit for one year and the Government for the other (actually probably Government first since it makes more sense to cover this the first half of US History is the formation of the government, right?) If you used this course, any suggestions on additional books. I know it gives some recommendations in the guide but I don't want to use a textbook for this particular child sooooo....looking to come up with something "outside the box" so to speak.

I have the IG for WP Cultures - this program was new last year and didn't release until last August. I will say this for the IG (links aside), this was the first IG that finally had some discussion questions - and some narration for mom to read (or read aloud) to understand the theme of each week. I believe the updated QAW has them now, too, so slowly WP is improving in that department. As for the links, I must preface by saying we tried using this and I was gung-ho in the beginning but we slowly fizzed out - the Civil War coverage seemed longer than the actual war itself and then when you got the WW I and II - they were given all of a week (give or take) and that was disappointing. There was so much more to WWII that could have been covered - so we ended up just letting it fall to the wayside. The books selected were great and easily readable but this program doesn't have a spine that it works from - just sort of goes through time.... Now, back to the links. There were assignments that you needed to go to these links and print out (some a bit lengthy) where you read about a particular Civil War battle and then mapped some stuff out. If I remember correctly the links were confusing but because it gave you the main website, I was able to navigate through and find the info in the end. Later on in the program there was some research to do about the Flu Epidemic and that was easy to find. The I Can Do It book was great because there were a lot of fun things to read about - like info on Campbells Soup, Levi Jeans, the Teddy Bear - which I thought was great to read about because it helps kids understand where some of our traditions or brands came from and why they came to be which I wanted my kids to know about so that was done well. The little projects that you could do each week were not done around here and my dd loves projects but they were just "eh! projects" so we just read the info and moved on. Some families, I'm sure would enjoy doing some of the projects so some of that is just our family's style. The bible guide was great but I think a little on the young side. We did not use the art appreciation book so no comment. I liked WP but have, over time, figured out perhaps it is not for us. Price is high and there just still seems to be a missing cohesiveness in many of the programs (I've used Sea and Sky (that one actually was probably the best), QAW, AW and AS 1). I've come to the conclusion that if you buy the notebooking pages you could design the program with that as your spine (selecting some of their books, too) except that this new IG does have the commentary for each week....which is definitely a big improvement.

I've considered BJU American History (with the DVD) but I don't want the focus to be on memorizing dates, people and places and I think that is some of the focus when it comes to the tests and activities (could be wrong). If you like AOP style you might want to give PacWorks a look - it has a 2 year course called American History - The People, Places and Principles of America. It is very well done and gives a solid base for American History. Another option might be working through All American History (BrightIdeasPress) book 1 and 2 - either in one or two years. There is plenty of literature and activity suggestions to supplement if needed. This is a textbook style whereas the PacWorks is a "lifepac" style. Again, you could easily correlate some additional literature to read alongside as interest/time is available. Heidi

Not a lot of help here on the OLG but I did call WP to ask what was inside and Autumn called me back. I can't help wondering that if Don or Karen had called my feeling would be different but.... she said that the OLG for the American History 1 and 2 is basically a reading guide for the A History of US books by Hakim. The first 5 are scheduled for year 1 (American Crossing) and the second half are for American Culture. The government book I believe is just one year but now can't remember if it was year 1 or 2 - I want to say year 1. I asked about more in-depth assignments like they offer in the Quest programs but she said it was an advanced reading guide - this is where I wondered if I had been able to speak with Karen or Don that I might have received a different response. I had also asked about the OLG for the geography program and could see a few samples and it definitely offered some high school assignments so I was surprised that the American History one did not - or does it? Frustrating and considering all the shipping issues and return policies, etc. it would be nice to really be able to get a look inside the OLGs to get a better feel. I know the S&S program recommends MORE books so that is more expense and they don't sell those books; you are on your own. Sorry I can't help you more. I did do WP QAW with my 9th grader and that was great but it seems that the OLG are a different style.

Okay, I'm sooo totally confused - is one better than the other? One more appropriate for youngers versus the older children? A preference? Same information - help.....

The one link looks awesome but I can't see the guide-bummer! This is exactly what I'm looking for - someone that has gone before me and is way better at making schedules and lessons!

I would like to use SOTW 2 - Middle Ages next year for my 2nd and 5th grader but I function better as a box checker - are there any programs out there - or schedules/plans (free or not) that covers the Middle Ages for this age/stage/time period?

Wow! Thanks so much for such wonderful insight, perspectives and advice. I've worked so hard getting my one ds reading (late bloomer, for sure) that it has taken me by surprise that this little guy has just taken off in the reading arena. I think it would probably be best, in the long run, to keep up with the program we're using and the plans I have for him to pick up AAS again in the fall (when the older brother has finished level 1 and less pressure) but there is nothing wrong in having him read for instruction and then read lots of other books - perhaps on a higher level for interest. I will say that I'm for phonics for the most part but I do have an older ds who is now 16 that struggled to read, too. He went to PS through 1/2 of 4th grade and he is why we began homeschooling. The school told me that he needed to buckle down and take school seriously; I, on the other hand, felt there was a problem. We had him privately tested and he could not read on a 4th grade level. He was the product of sight words and other "experiments" they were trying. I brought him home and taught Saxon Intervention had him reading at an 8th grade level by the end of the summer - for the most part. Sadly, some of his issues will never be repaired because he has a hearing disability that was diagnosed this past summer - and there are sounds (phonics is so much based on sounds) that he has never nor will he ever be able to hear. Thankfully, I found Sequential Spelling on DVD for him so he could see the words and that has improved his spelling tremendously. So, I'm quite shy at taking chances or doing something out-of-the-box for fear of messing his progress up. I think I have to agree that finishing out the program - perhaps a bit faster speed as his interest and abilities allow, but covering the bases is best - as long as he continues his enjoyment of reading. Again, thank you all so much!!!

My ds, 7, started the year with SL LA 1 and I also used a mix of ETC online and workbooks and Starfall. Well, we started getting burned out on the SL LA and also the ETC online - same stuff, different day so I switched over to LLATL Blue. He was loving learning again and I skipped over 1/3 of the book and started with blends (this is where he was skillwise) and he loved the program. Loves playing some games, loves the little crafty stuff, word wheels, etc. Well, we've been on a break, sort of, for spring and then Grandparents visit, and then.... well, life was busy so I just had him reading books - PD Eastman (Go Dog Go, Bill & Ted, Are You my mother?) type books. He is flying through them - and we haven't even worked through the rules of silent e and the vowel change - he just seems to know all the words with very little to no help. So, what do I do? Keep getting harder books and not worry about the phonic lesson? We stopped All About Spelling because he was going too fast and was going to pass his older brother - he just seems to have a natural gift in the reading department (not so much in the math department). I had planned on finishing LLATL Blue and then going on into Red - maybe that is just fine and move through as quickly as needed and I'll have him reading lots of extra books using the SL 2 Readers but just wondering if it is entirely necessarily to focus more on phonics? Start back with AAS - it gives those phonics rules as you go along? My other ds has been a major struggle to teach reading - one end of the spectrum to the other - any thoughts? ideas? I don't want to bog him down or hold him back so really unsure what step to take next.

I've been using the BJU Literature on DVD for 2 years and it has been a definite blessing to my ds. He is not a strong reader (he actually has severe hearing loss so will always struggle with sounds) but the DVD instruction has been wonderful. We've used them a grade behind - so he used the 8th in 9th grade and has worked through the 9th grade level this year for 10th. He has learned so much and now has begun using the skills learned to discern other readings which is wonderful. He especially loved the last unit which was Shakespeare's Cyrano - it was acted out so he could the play as well as read it. I never understood Shakespeare in school but wow! for a kid who hates reading, he really got into it. I'm actually struggling with skipping the 10th grade level and doing 11th because it is American Literature and he's working on American History - have to see on that one. At any rate, we've been very pleased. I guess there are a few theories on literature - studying a few complete works or exposure to a lot of different literature and for this child, exposure to many was a better fit; at least when you stumbled upon something you didn't quite care for the lesson was over quicker than being stuck in a long, long, long that didn't hold your interest.

Thanks so much for responding - I appreciate the dialogue! My ds that used Beyond was in 2nd grade that year. We actually started in halfway through the year as we had been using WP Animal Worlds and couldn't deal with yet another animal! We had a lot of fun and he is not into hands-on but it went well. We loved the story time assignments - and he really learned a lot that year. For whatever reason, the following year (last year), I didn't go with Bigger but went with SL Core 1 with a combo of SOTW 1 (my two older kids were studying Ancients so that kept in the same time zone so to speak) and it went well but still not the fun we had in HOD. When I did HOD I was taking pictures and capturing memories. My youngest was just tagging along in the science and art projects but had so much fun. There are actually pictures of the two of them in the Beyond books HOD made for the conventions. I appreciated last year in being in the same time zone - that helped ME a lot but the year wasn't as full as I had hoped. This year I went back to HOD with Bigger and tried Little Hearts for my ds for 1st. That was a flop! We had a hard time getting into the Eggleston books but probably should have stuck with it - I was also trying to push the extensions but my ds just didn't need that much "extension" at this point. And my youngest was too far advanced for Little Hearts but nowhere near ready for Beyond. We went with AS 1 from WP and I've not been able to get a good groove all year and my youngest just disappears when it comes time to read the books - not engaging him at all. I like being able to teach in the same time zone, so to speak, but I also prefer teaching my kids at their levels rather than 1 program and each child can fend for his own, kwim? I really like the skills taught in HOD - it is not just reading a history book, doing a craft or filling out a notebook sheet but they learn how to use the information - research, vocabulary, outlines, narration, etc. I'm really torn on what to do next year. Can I really handle 3 HOD guides (granted 1 child will be doing most on her own but I'll have to check up on her to be sure the work is being done! - Learned that the hard way with my high schooler)? Hmmmmm....

Donna - I'm considering going back to HOD for all three kids but the Adventures program just looks so neat - but after reading your post it brought up a question - if I were to do Bigger the following year - would that make a difference in the advice with regards to Adventures over Beyond? Financially I'm not sure I can even swing the Adventures - I need to buy my ds a math program that is going to work for him - the last missing puzzle piece for his curriculum for next year - so I need to add up numbers and justify my spending (ugh!). I have most of Beyond sitting on a shelf - minus a few books (science, Pilgrim stories and read-alouds). I wish he could do Preparing along with bigger brother but I just think it would be over his head. He is a very different learner than my other kids and I'm still trying to figure him out!

I'm really trying to find something for 2nd grade for next year for my youngest ds who will be entering 2nd. I tried combining WP AS1 with his older brother but that was a bust. I am not sure whether it was necessarily over his head or just not engaging enough (i.e., hands-on). My 4th grade ds does not enjoy hands-on projects so we tend to just read the books, discuss and move along (the whole AS 1 is a subject of its own and my humble opinion). I've done the Beyond program once before and once you get past the weeks on end of pilgrim stuff, it goes great but getting there....This ds, once engaged in learning, loves learning but the key is hooking him. I like HOD and I think my 5th grader will do Preparing and dd will do RTR beefed up for high school, but really struggling with what would work for my youngest. I love the idea of having everyone doing the same history but that doesn't work for my family so they all need their own "thing." I've been looking at MFW Adventures and it looks like a lot of fun but not sure how it might compare to HOD in a daily set up - how much time is involved? I've been drawn to the MFW bookbasket idea - I like having the variety of finding things that interest us with regards to a subject rather than a set list like SL or WP. I thought about using MFW RTR for my 2 youngers but worried that once again, I'd lose the interest of the youngest fellow and not sure my 5th grader is ready for Streams of Civilizations. Any thoughts or ideas?

No expert here but I can share that my ds, 10th this year, wanted to try all BJU on DVD so we did. Big mistake! While he is an audio/visual learner, all subjects on a screen was just too much. He burned out ASAP. Science is very challenging and not for the non-science minded student (that would be my ds). We've used the math and love it and he has scored very well. The Literature courses are wonderful although I find that we've used something separately for writing which is fine because he struggles in that area. The last unit in literature includes an entire Shakespeare play - I never understood Shakespeare in high school but with the instruction my ds received, he actually enjoyed it quite a bit. We tried the geography course but too much facts and then assigned a lot of busy work. My ds loves Mrs. Vick and she teaches the American History course so we are considering this but not entirely sure just yet; I'm worried that it will focus too much on memorizing dates and key events and more busywork. Spanish I was great and we didn't care for the Bible courses, either. I think BJU is definitely good prep work for college-bound kids but doing all DVD/or online - it is the same class - makes for a long, long, long day. Each class is about 30 minutes and then there are the assignments which typically take as long or longer. I missed the interaction with my ds - time together is all too short. I think the courses are a definite plus in lightening the load for mom for high school but in moderation.

Personally, it bugs me when I read that TT is behind - behind what? One person's standards to another? That they are behind because they should be prepared to do calculus in 9th grade? My ds is in 4th - we've used BJU through 3rd and things were fine but because he has dsygraphia and dsylexia the reading of word problems, instructions, and doing problems added to the challenge of learning new math skills. I love BJU but I could see my ds needed some help in the approach of how we do math - hello TT. He probably could have done TT 5 but I didn't even do the pre-test because I knew we hadn't focused enough on his times tables (I'm not a driller and don't believe in it) so we did TT4. While they don't teach the times tables per se, the not-so-obvious-to-the-kid's-eye approach is great. They don't see a page of 25 problems of the same thing over and over. The lesson is spoken to them on the computer, each problem is read to them and you can have it re-read as many times as you want, lots of encouragement when the answer is correct and when it is wrong, you can choose to watch the answer done correctly. We are currently working on conversions of feet into inches - the 12 times table really - but he is learning a new skill and practicing another. He loved the writing checks unit and balancing the checkbook - life skills/real math. I did supplement with Times Tales but the growth I've seen and the retention - that is what matters. In the lower grades when using the DVD, they have a bonus round which is just fun - no pressure but it, again, helps practice, without a big ole worksheet full of math problems, what needs to be practiced and it builds up their confidence level. The only thing I do to make the program more user-friendly for my dsygraphic child is write the problems that are equations for him to solve on a white-board rather than pencil and paper. I know there is a big push to have kids doing advanced math skills earlier and earlier but I keep reading over and over again how the kids are reaching the college levels and many kids are failing the basic college math classes - is faster/advanced really better? I doubt for all kids - some, but not all.

My ds has the same issues. I used BJU from K through 3rd (all the newer 3rd editions) and while I thought he was doing great, the retention was awful. One day he knew the stuff, the next he was looking at my like "what?" so this year I ventured into Teaching Textbooks - I kept him at grade level because of the non-mastered multiplication and my goodness, what a difference. He loves it because he doesn't have to write - much. Everything can be typed into the computer so this good for dsygraphia and the word problems and basically most problems are all read to them so this eases up the pressure on their struggling to read issues. I do sit nearby and will write out the add/subtract/mult/divide problems on a white board because that is easier for him to use than paper and pencil but other than that, awesome results this year. Some people complained that there was no drill work for the multiplication but I disagree-to a point. I did use TimesTales and a he keeps a multiplication chart nearby but after 2 months or maybe 3, he relies less and less and he has definitely mastered them without the drilling, without the tears, without driving me nuts! After so many lessons there is a bonus round and they have a 3 minutes timed drill but really fun and encouraging - this is a part of the program not in the workbook but only on the CD. As for practice, this program is spiral in nature so they get a little bit each day to practice over many lessons and then the concept disappears for a little bit, not long, and then there will be one or two problems just to refresh their minds. As for mastering multiplication, because they are working through problems that are say 5,259 and 8 - you are practicing all the concepts rather than mastering 8x5, 8x2, etc. in a rote fashion. The skills are translated in a more realistic way - kind of like when learning to read - we don't usually see forced sentences all using the -at family. kwim? At any rate, I'm a fan of BJU and it was hard to try something else but he learned differently and I got over it. (On a side note, my oldest had used TT PreAlg. and did well but when we went to Alg. it was a disaster so my apprehension to try anything different was high!)

If I used the Teaching Company option do you have any suggestions for an accompanying text? Or could he read a variety of chemistry-type books that dig a bit deeper some chemistry topics? Could I use a kit like Chem2000 for a lab? I hesitate to use the one that is used for the Apologia book because we tried the Physical Science and General Science and both were just not a good fit - so we ended up going a different direction. Conceptual Chemistry sounds great but perhaps not for this child but his ds in another year or two. ha ha!