So, Jump In really looks solid and my son previewed the samples and enjoyed them (huh??!!). Can teaching writing be that straight forward? After sampling WWS, IEW and variations of the pro gym I expect teaching writing to be this monstrous beast to slay. I am so intimidated and overwhelmed that I've become paralyzed and expect to fail. This is a rock I need to crawl out from under! I've narrowed my list down to purchasing Jump In and 2 Meaningful Composition books (4+ and 6+) for preview. Cover Story (and Wordsmith Apprentice for the younger son) may be used at some point as well for my creative writer guy. Analytical Grammar or CLE LA running alongside as needed for grammar ….

Tara, Were you using the original (or one of the older) version of MM at this point? We switched to the most updated version this past year. I think that the 5th grade version we used isn't as rigorous as the previous one. I do have a Lial's pre-A and Dolciana pre-A text. Perhaps I should compare the S&S with MM6. :) I am VERY tempted to switch to something more spiral and with a different teaching style for 6th grade. I'd like to mix it up by using a variety of resources but I don't have enough math know how to do that. When I look at 6th grade I sigh. I am TIRED of looking at work texts but maybe I'll feel better about it in a couple of months.

Is Maria writing a full Pre-A or are these worksheet sets her Pre-A material? MM has worked well for my oldest and he's wrapping up 5th grade. As usual, we are slogging through the end and still have Geometry to tackle. We always skimp on the Geometry chapter but I'm determined to get through it with him! We've had many bumps in 5th grade that have me concerned going into 6th …. The mastery approach has worked well over the years but this year he's forgetting a ton. I'm not sure if there is something I need to do about this ….. Thoughts and questions abound. Will MM6 shore up these weaknesses? Is MM6 going to review stuff he's learned in 5th? He is forgetting a lot and makes so many silly mistakes. I will forever be telling him to show his work, write neatly, and stay on task!! :coolgleamA: ETA: Looks like MM6 will do a lot of review with some deepening of concepts. Though we are longing for a *change* I think sticking with MM through 6th is the wise choice as long as we don't burn out. I'm slightly concerned about burn out though (and suspect he may need an approach with more review built in …. mastery is losing its magic with this kiddo). Thanks for any helps here. Math and Writing. Ack! :rolleyes:

Hi Diana, Yes, I LOVE the looks of MC and have thoroughly perused the samples over the past several weeks. I am planning on using 4+ with my 10yo this fall but I wasn't sure about using it with the oldest boy because of the Directed Writing approach. He has a lot of his own ideas and I am under the impression that because MC uses Directed Writing that there isn't any flexibility within the assignments. This approach is precisely what my 10yo will need as he's insecure in writing and HATES subjectivity. My oldest is much more creative and likes to have some say in his writing. I was tempted by 6+ for him.

He is a good writer (has a lot of potential) but we have been hit/miss with writing this school year. I did a lot of experimenting and here is what we NEED: Absolutely Open and Go. No juggling DVDs or "parts & pieces". Written to the student, able to be worked on independently (but does have *some* parent involvement in terms of feedback). Minimal to no integrated grammar. "To the point" assignments that don't require intense study for us to understand what is being asked. Ability to slow down or speed up depending upon the need of the moment. Relatively inexpensive. Teaches valuable writing skills that can be used in other subjects. Appropriate for his age/grade level (I have difficulty determining this and have bogged down in how to teach writing because of it.) If you've used Jump In did you do the Writing Plunges? Here's what Cathy Duffy said about them: EDITED per SWB :) I want to be finished with this at the end of 6th grade and would like to omit the Writing Plunges. Do you think the Writing Plunges are important? It sounds like the student does editing/proofing work with the Writing Plunge papers and I wonder if skipping those would hinder his writing growth. How long did Jump In take you and how much time did you give it daily/weekly? Alternatives to Jump In would be Writing Strands 4&5 (yes, I realize it's hated here but I like that it's open/go, an old school TWTM rec. , cheap) or an outsourced class or Cover Story. Now, Cover Story looks like something this child would LOVE as he is inclined toward Creative Writing. However, I don't quite know how to plan a sequence that would prepare him for high school and where to fit each part in. Jump In looks more versatile and could likely be followed by Cover Story which is a shorter duration (24 weeks I believe). We could focus on essay writing for the second half of 7th and all of 8th grade. Maybe we'll be able to use Writing with Skill as an "open and go" option once we are done with Jump In. That is my secret hope ….

Your words are encouraging and your heart comes through. My Huz is just starting Created for Work with all of us. Boyhood and Beyond is on the boys' reading list for the upcoming school year. I've been waiting a long time for these books to be read aloud in this home! Praying with expectation that good seeds will be planted in the hearts of us all ….

Agreed Ellie but as we all know "school" is life is "school" is life and who we are spills over in to our work, play, etc. My four kids are pretty typical in that they fight, bicker, argue, plod, "forget", forget :), get distracted, get angry, complain, etc. It seems that this particular year there is so much more of it and it truly affects the flow of our days. I do not intend to post my list as a list of rules!! I feel bad for not communicating clearly :o . Surely, we all deal with these kinds of things if we have 2+ kiddos and they most certainly do affect the flow of the day. I am only looking for some fresh ideas as I want to administer thoughtful consequences when needed. I'm also not a brute. Kids need reminders, prodding, piggy backing, etc. But, there are times when they need a realistic consequence and that is that. Some of the things we do now include: loss of privilege (i.e. screens, free time), extra work/chores, re-doing jobs, writing Dad's sentences, standing in corner, practice/redoing/resaying (i.e. How should you ask for that? What could you have said to your sister instead of ….? I'll set the timer and you can come try again), isolation (i.e. kiddo sits on bed with nothing for xx number of minutes and then can try again). We are gracious with our kids. We pray with them. We talk heart to heart and continually lay out the expectations. We reward. We love them tangibly. We don't have a bazallion rules but we do need to have some and consistently hold them accountable.

This is a FANTASTIC post. Please invite me over and talk with me some more. :) We need to make a lot of changes including our curriculum as I need ways to give them more independence. CLE LA is my current consideration to allow grammar/mechanics to get done. Rod & Staff is GREAT but if I'm unavailable (due to dealing with issues or younger or ?) my boys think they're getting away with something. Using online courses, such as BJU science, is also something I'm considering. I have too much "teacher intensive" going on and I want my boys to be able to own more of their school day. Firstly, need a re-boot in terms of how we're setting expectations and holding our children accountable. Secondly, I MUST make curricula changes that will allow for more independent learning so that if I'm detained my boys can still be working. We are trying to figure out how to give them projects and things to do. Boredom is an issue. I have a brand new, rebooted morning routine for them and we're going to experiment with it. Yes, they eat healthy and a lot (my word). I believe they get adequate sleep and I push the exercise: outside play, trampolining indoors, etc. I require them to play outside every day and we do as much as we're able to away from home (walks, hikes, zoo, church activities, etc.).

We need some fresh ideas for consequences that I can implement consistently throughout the day. The older boys are 10 and 11.5. ***I am deleting my list as I unintentionally gave the impression that I wanted all of those as rules. Thanks so much for your honest feedback and ideas!! My basic categories of struggle are: Respect/Obedience. If your boys are mouthy how do you handle this over the course of the day? I give reminders and we practice. Dad is a phone call away. They write sentences if it gets out of hand. I ban talking or isolate with a timer. They do say sorry and hug me. We talk a lot. I am just wondering how other Moms handle this with their boys. ***Use of time. My boys are prone to dawdle and waste time in every way possible. I'm trying to set reasonable expectations and train them toward being good managers of their time. How do you do this with your boys? Currently, we use timers and checklists. I'm actively involved in overseeing the day and working alongside all four of the kids. I'm seeking more independent curricula that will allow me to assign their subjects as "homework". ***General attitudes. Complaining/grumbling and rudeness to other family members. I know we are normal but sometimes I'm disheartened by how unkind we are to one another. How do you help your kids with this and how do you discipline/train for rude words or constant negativity?

There aren't words …. So sorry for your loss. We are praying for you from the PNW in the U.S. (((Rosie and her family)))

Hi happy :) I agree about Amy. She is a delight to work with. My son is finding Eyewrite to be a bit more challenging but enjoyable. He strongly dislikes my critiques and efforts to help him edit his work. Sparks are flying! ;). After reading more about Muse I don't think he will do that one as he didn't take her other courses. Time Capsule is at the top if my list for fall. I want to have a better handle on the daily and weekly workload and intend to ask Amy more about that. I am hoping she will share a sample assignment with me or even a week's worth so I can assess the skill level and the workload. It may be feasible to do all of the Attuneup phases next year for a well rounded writing and communication program. I like what you shared about the skill improvements you have seen in your girls!!! Amy will be offering a summer course and I can't wait to see what it will be. :) Happy, what are you using for grammar instruction? We use Rod & Staff but I may move over to Analytical for 6th - 8th.

What scope/sequence would you recommend for my oldest student? I have younger kids to teach writing to also but they do NOT combine well with the oldest. I'll figure their course out later ;). DS11 (12 this fall) is WAY ahead of his younger brother. We dabbled in SWI-A and set it down because combining the two of them was futile and being a newbie to teaching IEW I couldn't figure out how to work with them together without asking the oldest to do nothing or without dragging younger through the mud. DS11 was ready to move MUCH more quickly with more dense assignments. Questions in regard to this DS: I *could* accelerate him thru SWI-A since it's here (and he did a few lessons) but will he be more challenged with Level B? I don't understand the diff between SWI A and SWI B in terms of the writing skills taught. The source materials are slightly more difficult in B but is there a diff in the level of expectation in structure and style? Accelerating SWI A seems like the most frugal option as we can work through it in 12-15 weeks (we've already started) and he could move up to a Level B theme in the fall sometime. Are the theme based options "open and go" where we can literally open the book and do the work right there without consulting a DVD, filing papers here and there, etc.? I have Medieval which is Level B with IEW so could start there and forget SWI A altogether for this kid. Is SWI-A challenging enough for a rising 6th grader who is a good writer and not easily overwhelmed by writing? ETA: As I'm researching and planning today I think the most sensible option, unless advised otherwise, is to PUSH through the SWI-A with him (at his pace of course but to the point of challenge) and max out the assignments. Thanks for letting me think out loud here!

Subbing …. Ruth's list is a treasure. :)

I love this!! What a refreshing, liberating approach to ENJOYING history together. Thank-you for sharing your family's style.

:coolgleamA: Oh, I don't have one specific to Challenge A. In fact, you don't NEED a lit list to be prepared for ChA (they only read a few books that could easily be pre-read in summer; the focus of ChA is skills, not lit.) but you do NEED one :D . Start with the WTM and go from there … I was suggesting to the OP that emphasizing as much reading as possible is a necessary use of time for our kiddos and I'd make sure to leave enough time in my 6th/7th grader's day for in depth reading.

No, I didn't reply to you :001_smile: It sounds like you want TOG but think MFW is more doable right now. What gets done is truly FAR better than biting of more than you can chew. MFW is balanced too. It took me a couple of stupid, wasted years to figure out that MFW's paradigm really can make homeschooling happen for families with kids close together in age. They cover a lot of ground while remaining realistic about what can actually get DONE day to day. MFW makes plenty of those connections that you want between history and the Bible. You might find you even have room to bring something else in that you want to read with/to your oldest (maybe Apologia's Who Is God? I'm previewing that now and it will mesh well with MFW.) Have you seen the Quiet Times for Kids website? They have some Bible studies for the kids that look great! You can also plan to set aside a short block each week to have a history/Bible discussion with the oldest. As your kids get older you can plan an Independent History track with some "extra" assignment or reading or research that ties in to the weekly plans. Listening to Diana Waring would certainly add a lot of Bible connection and oomph for the logic stage set (and Mom!). Admittedly, MFW is my first choice but I'm still in the thick of it with planning. I have piles of books and research right now ... If we go back to MFW (wish I'd never left … gah!) we'd pick up with RTR and finish out their cycle with WTM logic stage literature and writing across the curriculum added in for my oldest. I'm strongly interested in doing a countries/cultures/geography/missions type of study before high school and so must consider that before moving forward. We only have 3 years … I am grieved :sad: to have wasted two years spinning and flailing when I should have just STAYED WITH WHAT WAS WORKING WELL for us rather than looking around for something *better*. We would have studied through the entire cycle with my oldest son and I am so sad that he missed ECC and CTG.

Gratitude, Are you aware that Rod and Staff publishes an English handbook? You may like having one as a reference while teaching and learning to apply those composition lessons across your curriculum. It's this one here.

Listening in ….. Thanks for asking the questions gratitude ( :thumbup1: ). The composition lessons in English 5 have been excellent. Angela, your advice is great! How did you balance out Rod & Staff and IEW without going overboard?

Hi LAMom, Funny that you ask about TOG. I read a recent thread in which you were asking questions and going around about it. Based upon that thread I think you should use MFW for a year and then evaluate. Put simply, TOG is more than I want or need. Having to sift and sort through something so immense is not comfortable for me. I prefer something streamlined (like MFW or SOTW) that I can build upon as needed. It's much easier for me to ADD to something or BEEF it up accordingly. I don't see myself committing to a curriculum that would take us through high school. Who knows what the future holds. I like much of what I see with MFW's high school (with a few exceptions) and I don't feel overwhelmed at planning it myself. There are so many options for high school: outsourcing local courses, online courses, etc. My kids may have gifts, abilities, interests, and personal direction by high school and I am not interested in committing to something like TOG for those years. It's easy to SAY that to justify the expense and investment but honestly, life changes too much for that kind of long term commitment for my family. I haven't tried Biblioplan beyond printing the samples, filing them, and looking over the book list to see if I have enough to give it a good trial run. Frankly, every option leaves me dissatisfied which is the REAL issue (me). I am learning to put my big girl pants on and teach through the challenges, using whatever tool I have chosen for the current season. Biblioplan could work and so could MFW. You should try the one that you think is ideal for you (and you CAN try 3 weeks of Biblioplan). I am growing more fond of not committing to anything history wise and just enjoying it "seasonally". The kids and I have been reading through Rush Limbaugh's history books and LOVING them. We enjoy Drive Thru History videos and Horrible Histories books/vids. We read widely, talk a lot, etc. My oldest devours books and learns a lot. I do want to study the Medieval era as well as the Modern era more in depth which is why I think that MFW might be the best fit for me the next 3 years (RTR, Exp-1850, 1850-MOD). There are PLENTY of things I can do to beef up for my oldest and keep him hopping in middle school. EVERY subject does not need to be hard. History can be something we simply enjoy as a family and he's a HUGE fan of listening to stories being read though he's an avid reader himself.

Tammi, My experience with CC is limited as we just finished our first year. I have strongly considered the Challenge program and spent a fair amount of time researching, asking questions, reading threads, observing, etc. My view of CC is pretty level at this point as I have had time to work through my love/hate relationship with it. ;) In your daughter's case my gut says no to Challenge based on some things you've shared but there ARE exceptions in every case. To me, it sounds like she needs another year focused very carefully on building her skills and bringing her up to speed in several areas including time management. I don't know that the material would be too rigorous for her (except math but you can use your own and ignore that seminar or just listen in) but the DEMANDS in terms of focused study and use of time may be. Instead of ChA I'd trim and streamline her schedule so that she can focus very carefully on the key subjects: math, writing, literature, grammar, etc. I'd work ahead of time to completely organize her first semester and use it to teach her to follow a routine/schedule/checklist. I'd work in the second semester toward helping her to plan her weekly work based upon what is assigned and then having her fill in her own schedule. You could consider outsourcing ONE course elsewhere (online) to ease her in to the outside accountability and set deadlines. I know I need this kind of help as I get very turned around in the day to day. I find Foundations to be *young* for the 5th/6th grade set but my oldest did have a great time due to a great tutor. He learned, he made friends, he practiced preparing/presenting, etc. We didn't do Essentials although I sat in two weeks to try it out and I previewed the guide thoroughly. Keep in mind that the IEW programs they use are geared toward middle school so the writing would be thorough instruction for your daughter. That could be your outsourced class in which she learns to meet deadlines as there is a writing assignment every week. One thing I like is that the Found/Essent programs only run 24 weeks. That is a power packed season of school but then there is plenty of time woven around that for *other* types of learning and reading. Essentials has a lot of grammar as well (and she could max out the weekly options if she is ready for it). I don't know if Rod & Staff 4 will be enough before Challenge. You'll have to ask about that one. She could also use the *lightness* of Foundations to her advantage. She should work on mastering as much of the memory work as possible, especially the Latin and math. She could even pursue Memory Master which is a worthy goal for her. I'd just make sure to prepare a thorough literature list for classics, history and science. I wouldn't do a separate science program unless she really has time or interest because it sounds like she needs to focus on other studies. I'd also add a strong middle school level Bible study of some sort as CC doesn't contain Bible Study. Here is what you *could* devote her school day hours of study to with the Not Challenge Plan: **Math (spending as much time as she tolerate without burn out and work very consistently - does she need a math tutor? Is she behind because of struggle or because of slacking off? If she struggles and MUS works for her I'd stay with it at this point. Saxon is sooooooooo different from MUS and it would just be one more new thing to figure out, you know? Don't switch for ChA. She won't place in the right level anyway.) **Composition: IEW U.S. History and max out the assignments if needed. **Grammar: EEL and give this her all in terms of analysis of sentences, memory work, editing work, etc. Max it out. How is her spelling? She could shore up weaknesses here. **Foundations memory work and possibly pursue Memory Master. I'd make sure she spends plenty of time mastering that weekly work, drawing maps (she needs this practice for Challenge), etc. **Bible. Something meaty and relevant to her age/stage. Maybe a purity study? **Literature: make this reading list huge, deep, and wide (as huge, deep and wide as she can take :) ) and let her enjoy reading a ton. **I don't know if there's anything else specific I'd plan for her until the above list was running like clockwork every week and she had too much time on her hands. If she needs *more* I'd consider a Figuratively Speaking unit, Fallacy Detective or something techy like a coding class. I might also use my copy of TWTM and figure out how to teach her to write literary essays a la SWB (they're not as hard as they sound and darn it if I'm not going to start assigning those in 6th grade!). She could do one a week. If you go ahead with Challenge I'd be inclined to NOT tutor and instead sit with her through Challenge. You may find it very beneficial to sit through the programs the first year and enjoy the journey of learning the ropes with your kids (and making sure you love CC enough to be that committed) without your own personal set of unrelenting due dates (i.e. being ready to teach or present weekly). Essentials would be an especially heavy workload your first year through CC. When there are so many unknowns you could easily get yourself over committed and not be able to give enough time to each area (tutoring on top of keeping up with Foundations, Essentials and possibly Challenge). She'll need you every step of the way and you will have a lot to do to carry her through, especially the first several weeks. Keep in mind that the role of the tutor is different than that of a teacher. I find it hard to explain because there is teaching and guiding happening that one day a week but YOU are teaching the other four. So, you have to know the Lost Tools of Writing material and keep your finger on the pulse of every subject so that you can teach her, guide her, help her, walk with her. She'll likely need help learning to structure her studies into daily blocks for each subject. She writes a lot and presents her science research every single week. She may feel quite overwhelmed for awhile and will need you to come alongside and see her through all of these new challenges. Also, the quality of Challenge tutors varies widely which I find disheartening. I'd not consider signing her up without knowing WHO is tutoring and what calibre of tutor they are. I am disappointed that CC doesn't require their Challenge tutors to have relative mastery of the subjects they are presenting …. It presents a problem as your experience with Challenge will greatly depend upon WHO is tutoring. My son's tutor held her oldest daughter back a year in order to lay a strong foundation. She did Foundations and Essentials as a 7th grader because that is where SHE needed to be. Challenge A was her 8th grade year and in retrospect the Mom is pleased with the growth in her daughter this year. She believes the decision to have her wait a year was right. It isn't right for every kid. Some kids need to get into Challenge earlier …. It's really about doing what is right for the child within the paradigm (CC or not) that works for your family. I encourage you to count the cost carefully so that you don't over commit.

Well, according to the website this product is for use at home and is referred to as a "boot camp". Here's the link … The explanation refers to the parent watching the DVD at home with the child and if desiring further instruction to move on to the Student Writing Intensive Continuation Course. Shrug.

Okay. I'll keep looking into it then. Thanks for sharing this. Bummer! I was really hoping for a power packed IEW style Boot Camp for my middle schooler. ETA: The wording makes it sound like its geared for home use. "YOUR CHILD Can Write" rather than "Your STUDENTS Can Write". And why a 6 week boot camp in public school? It makes it sound like the student would spend a good block of time with this in those 6 weeks. Maybe I misunderstood …

I am confused and hope that someone can set the record straight for me. Perhaps I should call IEW and ask away! We have the SWI-A Old School version. It's a full school year covering several of the TWSS Units. I tried combining my boys and it was a flop as they're so far apart skill wise. I couldn't pace it appropriately and so we dropped it. My boys LOVE Pudewa and I do think that the program has value for my kiddos but I can't run several levels of IEW simultaneously and not those DVD format courses. It's too time intensive. It became very obvious that my oldest child needed a lot MORE and the youngest needed to slow down and practice the new skills. This new fangled Your Child Can Write looks like a true writing boot camp at only 6 weeks in length. I can choose the middle school option for my 11 year old and he can have a spring/summer writing intensive IEW style which would fill in nicely while I am working on a strong 6th grade writing/English plan (possibly outsourcing). Besides the pacing do you know how this is different from the old school SWI? Are you studying fewer units or would we be getting a crash course overview of most of them? Why the change? Is it still recommended to follow up with the SICC? If you know where to find a detailed explanation on the IEW website I'd be grateful for a link. I'm still looking and researching and haven't found the answers I need.

Hmmmm. I didn't come to any resolution about the Companion and I received minimal feedback. The Moms who used it and responded did say they liked it. I printed up a hunk of it along with the samples for Medieval and they're sitting in my Desk Apprentice. It's possible I will try it for 3 weeks and see how I like using it. Everything is ready to go except for a few books. From what I can tell based upon the samples I have printed out the kids really need to use the Companion to do their Cool History sheets. Shrug. We can get plenty of variety in reading from the literature list. Honestly, I just want history to get done and be reasonably enjoyable. I am past being overly picky or scheduling 1000 supplemental things to "round out" history …. I want streamlined and while Biblioplan can be streamlined I feel a little ADD with all of the options on the page. For some reason, having choices induces guilt. This is why I should TRY using it in a streamlined way for 3 weeks and then assess. Three measly weeks … I can do this! It might be better for me to use straight SOTW and beef up for the oldest. Are you willing to try Biblioplan for a year and come to a conclusion on your own? Perhaps you should try the 3 week sample. You can put the Companion on an iPad (which is what I meant to do; the printing fiasco still haunts me … I printed dozens of pages by accident!). It's hard to decide based upon what others say.

This. CLE is 80% independent and the TMs are easy to follow. It's spiral. In your position you have to exchange ideal for realistic. Math has to get done …. and you may want to consider outsourcing higher level math because you can't possibly teach that many students. If you have an older kiddo who is trustworthy and capable I'd consider hiring him/her to tutor a younger in math for a season or two. I can't imagine having 10 to teach. I am totally overwhelmed with 4 students … God bless you.