:lurk5: Listening in. Looking at CLE LA. CtGE is so-so for us (layout is the pits and bogs me down) but I think CLE LA 6 looks way too tough and I don't want to slog. Blah blah blah. Mostly, I just want to hear answers to Keri's questions. Hushing now.

Thanks for answering my questions and giving me ideas to implement. Our books came today and I like what I see. It's just about Christmas Break around here so I'm not sure we'll start until after New Year's but that gives me a bit of time to familiarize myself with the online course stuff. :coolgleamA: **I didn't know about Quizlet so I'm excited to look into it.

We joined the ranks by signing up for Science 6. I am so excited for my son to have this opportunity. :) Do we need to purchase any supplies for this course? Are there hands on requirements beyond the class, text and Student Activity manual work? How do you help your kiddo prep for quizzes and tests? Is note taking expected or recommended? Thanks :). We await the arrival of our books and so we will start after Christmas.

Lea, We use and love CLE Reading and I begin using it with my kids in 4th grade. It is packed with wonderful skill work and NOT useless comprehension questions. 4th requires more writing than 3rd but asks a bit more in thinking skills. I like that 4th is only 5 light units compared to 3rd having 10. We do reading two days a week. We can also double up lessons one week by doing reading 4 times and then finish a LU early. My love and appreciation for CLE Reading hasn't waned. My oldest is using 6th and my 4th grader started with grade 4 this school year. :) My kids do need me to stay on top of corrections and give feedback. I don't ask them to memorize the story verses :). They just copy them if asked in the LU.

Tracy, Thanks for explaining the free write connection. Makes sense! Your counsel is always so helpful and it is meaningful because you are homeschooling a house full of kids :). You know the choices that must be made to cover all the bases .... Erin, Admittedly, I am paying for not utilizing WWE to the fullest. UGH! I've been so mad at myself for neglecting this! I KNOW better. Goodness, I've read TWTM several times, listened to SWB's lectures, etc. :banghead: I won't make this mistake with my younger 3 as I see NOW how important it is. Well, I knew it at least a year ago. The issue of "writing summaries" has been on the periphery for some time. I've procrastinated to no end. It has been a tremendous learning experience for me and something I am trying to remedy in my homeschooling endeavors. Since we are almost at ground zero with summaries I am intimidated .... Susan models it very nicely within WWE so I may do a few weeks of WWE summaries with DS12 alongside the CtGE work. Once we feel comfy we can shift over to the content using our history and science readings.

Ladies, As the morning has progressed and I have pondered what you have written this sounds VERY doable. Erin, Your recommendations on how to use the resources we have has opened the door for me. I had pulled Tiner out for just this purpose. I am going to make a plan for next week based on what is here. I do have WWS and have spent a lot of time with it. I like it .... But, the time issue is a serious one. I HAVE to be realistic and that is why I have been asking. CtGE does look good but it FEELS like WWS would take us farther. Do you set a summary length for your son? Do you just pick a section of a book (he is also reading Famous Men of Rome on his own and I think that might be a good resource to use for outlining) and tell him to go at it? At this point I will need to be VERY specific and clear as to my expectations of him (and sit with him at first). We are doing history reading aloud as a family (I'm not liking this at all to be honest .... my kids are spread out too far in interest and attention span). Presently we're reading out of Augustus Caesar's World and Streams of Civilization. I don't have Pathway readers but would love an excuse to buy them all. Well, I do have 1st and 2nd grade ... ;)

Tracy, My experience has been the same with grammar. When I work one on one understanding and retention is better. But, reality necessitates more independence if I want to see any forward progress. :) I also think that there might be school years I can do a level of Rod & Staff with one kid while the others run more independently .... so we're getting a solid year in now and then. The younger two are getting to English daily because they can work in their CtGE books. Presently, my son is reading through Tiner's Exploring the History of Medicine. Could he use these readings to write summaries once a week? I've no idea how to require this .... hence my desire to use Writing with Skill. My son keeps waiting for ME to catch up and it's not going to happen as I'm always a couple of steps behind. I can see what we need but can't quite get there on my own so we have to depend on a program to lead us there. With oldest DS I won't be the Mom pulling together writing on my own .... it's just not happening as it takes me too long to wrap myself around the materials, ideas, etc. And, then, he's not writing. We're at the point where we need to open a guide with clear instruction and go with it. History and science haven't been consistent enough to do "writing across the curriculum" and I'm no good at integrating writing into content anyway. I've no idea how free writing can lead to summary writing .... Are you saying that you use either CTGE or Writing with Skill or do use CtGE for grammar and WWS for comp.? I can't quite fit it all together .... I want moderate grammar coverage with more independence AND an excellent composition course that could run semi-independently and HOLD MY HAND. We've toyed with a few options this fall and I'm not happy at all at how it has gone. We are ready to step up now and I've previewed all of the materials at my disposal. Honestly, WWS looks quite good and I think using it would help ME to improve my own understanding of the writing process. Admittedly, I am utterly intimidated by WWS but think if we just start it won't hurt as much as I think it might! The CtGE/WS combo sounds like it would get done with less of my input .... but I am committed to spending a block of time daily with the writing book, whatever that may be. We do have the time and it needs to happen! I guess I can see not using WS with CTGE if I focus on summary writing. That has to be figured out .... Summaries elude and befuddle me. It's probably a bit much to use CTGE and WWS, right? ETA: I guess I can do this summary writing challenge :). In researching it I find it's not that HARD to understand; it's just a skill that requires practice. SWB teaches it so well within WWE but I did too much tip toeing in that and didn't settle in with it. My younger kids will do better I suppose as I have learned a lot these past few years ....

Is there a supply kit for this science? I'd prefer to buy something put together .... :)

Thanks for the feedback. DH said go for it so ..... :hurray:.

We need to turn a corner and I have narrowed down the grammar and writing lineup to these two options (literature is going fine for now and once I LIKE the grammar/writing combo. then I'll fine tune the lit.): Writing with Skill Level one and finish Rod and Staff English 5. We are more than halfway and it is plenty in the grammar dept. Looking at AG for 7th. OR Use Climbing to Good English 6. More streamlined and independent grammar and some strong traditional composition lessons. If we begin now we can complete this level by end of 6th. I would pair this with Writing Strands 4 two days a week. IDK where we'd go in 7th .... and I'd wonder if we could do WWS 2 without having done 1. I need a stronger plan for him that could run semi independently which leads me to believe Option 2 is more doable. What gets DONE (as long as it is valuable) is far better than perfect or ideal, right?! Ack! WWS looks excellent but I'm not so sure how it would work day to day if I am sidelined with other kids. After reading through it I REALLY think it could be good for this son. Rod and Staff doesn't happen without me BUT I have no correcting to do later and the format works well for him. I also intend to spend time discussing the writing work in CtGE and WS BUT with my busy crew I need to be able to ask him to complete writing and grammar assignments even if I am not available. Do you think either path would lead to strong growth in writing for a 12 yo? Am I wrong in thinking that using WWS is a better, stronger path? If it matters, my son needs to work on structure and organization in writing. He is also rather shabby on summaries (so am I). Thanks so much! :)

Random, Thanks for the heads up on the $99 sale! I see it on BjUs site. Just texted DH about it :).

So, I'm replying to myself here. CBD has samples of the student activity manuals and based on what I'm seeing I think Science 6 is great for him! So, if we are opting to do DLO do I NEED that expensive Teacher's Manual? I expect I'll need it for corrections but have a secret hope that it may somehow accessible via the online course? Do you recommend the tests?

DS12 needs a lot more in his schooling. We are enjoying MFW but the science is far too light for his learning level. This DS isn't passionate about science but *I* want him to really step up in all areas of his schooling. I'd like him to read interesting and challenging material and do meaningful work alongside. I also need help as I don't have time to add any more "teaching at the elbow". I've had my eye on BJU for a long time but hesitated to buy due to the cost and the rigor of 7th+. They usually offer a distance learning special right around the new year (maybe even this month) and so I want to decide right now what I would purchase. As my DS is currently a 6th grader (though he is now 12) is it too juvenile to choose 6th grade for him? I'd like him to enjoy the learning and work! Or, is Life Science accessible to him? He would NOT like to do any dissections at this point so do you any recommendations as far as the hands on aspects go? Would he be fine watching but not doing if in Life? If he isn't passionate about science is BJU too much? He'd be using this science over the remainder of 6th grade and partway into 7th. If we choose the special then do we purchase the books on our own? From where do you recommend we purchase those? Will the website clearly direct me so I end up with the correct version books to match the class? Thanks :).

Hey Gil, You shared a lot of wise counsel! I take it to heart and find your ideas about papers, books, highlighters and pondering to be useful. I have done a lot of that in comparing Pre-A (Dolciani and Lial's are what I have; oh, and now MM 7A) to MM6. Here's the deal and I see that I've miscommunicated the struggle. Admittedly, this happens to me a lot in that I don't clearly communicate on the forum! Sometimes I write it all out and then delete it because I can't figure out how to ask or say what is needed. My biggest struggle is my own inability to judge the diff. between 6th grade and Pre-A. Changing up what we're doing with math is something I'm considering because we seem to be bogged down with MM. He just dreads doing math anymore and while it could be 6th grade math in general I'm toying with the idea that I could salvage math love and reinvigorate him. I am fearful of deviating from the MM S&S because I don't know if I'd be skipping something critical. Maybe all that I need to do is persevere with him .... My son is NOT a struggling student academically; he is struggling with even wanting to do math anymore, with hating it and dreading it and slogging through it. This is what was happening in 5th though I noticed his need for the spiraling review and that is why the CLE idea was being considered. He totally GETS math. Concepts, word problems, Puzzle Corners (he loves those actually), etc. NO issues with understanding at all. He averages about 90% on tests and his mistakes are the usual (i.e. add instead of multiply, forgot a zero, multiplied incorrectly). His mistakes in math are never conceptual and he is easy to teach. I've never had to go over and over any thing with him, even long division (which is killing DS10 :) ). I've never had to creatively present math concepts or bring out the manipulatives for this guy. The review that I believe he might benefit from is the spiral that CLE provides. Not because he doesn't understand; he forgets. The Math Minutes we've been using are giving us a daily spiral review vitamin and I chose those in lieu of trying to mesh CLE and MM. I am happy to provide what my kids need in math and do not believe I am striving for rigor for rigor's sake; that's not my intent at all! I'm sorry if I've communicated that. It is important to make sure that's not what I'm striving for (and I've certainly been guilty of that in the past; these years of schooling have worked a lot of humility into me). It has been presented to me more than once that sometimes a kid who isn't liking math or focused on math is under challenged .... I believe he's super bored with math now even though he needs to keep learning the concepts. His love of Puzzle Corner indicates his enjoyment of harder problems. In fact, his favorite part of math is the word problems!! When I was in school I HATED them and much preferred the arithmetic side of things. Anyhow, I'm toying with the idea that maybe pushing ahead to Pre-Algebra could give him a bit more and help him to see the POINT of some of what he's learning. I doubt my own ability to make an informed decision and would appreciate it if something could explain the PURPOSE of PreAlgebra and how it is different from 6th grade math. How will I know that my student is well prepared for Algebra?

It works best to set a timer and how far we get in the text differs day by day. The maximum amount of time I seem to be able to require is 40-45 minutes though I'd like to see his math efforts at a full hour 5 days a week. I think his request for CLE was for "easier math" though I'm sure what his thought process is .... maybe he was just venting :). I don't see the point in starting 6th over though I suspect the review in CLE would do him good (but delay getting to more challenge). We need to just go somewhere else but AHEAD of where we are or a different approach. I offered him the option at the beginning of the school year and he wasn't at all interested in CLE but he has burned out on MM (despite his insistence that he prefers it). Yes, I actually wanted to hybridize 6th for him to iron out the computation wrinkles. CLE is great at review and as he seemed to be forgetting so much more by the end of 5th I saw the hybrid as a potential solution. I spent a bit of time wrestling through how to do that .... was given a lot of kind and wise counsel here. The CLE/MM combo didn't fly because it was too time intensive and I couldn't figure out what to CUT. Presently, I am utilizing a daily review sheet (Math Minutes), a geometry skills Light Unit and some math facts drill stuff. Honestly, I don't know if there is anything that must be done. What I was hoping for going INTO 6th was something DIFFERENT for him because finishing 5th was a drag. It seems like we've been heading toward burn out for awhile and I want to CHANGE something. My ignorance about how 6th and Pre-A work together or overlap is making it impossible for me to know what to do. I feel like I have to follow the curriculum or else I'll do something stupid. Maybe we just have to stick it out with MM (but work between 6/7). My survival instincts and love for my son compel me to TRY to find a way to soften the burn out though! :) Recovering some enjoyment over math would be so refreshing also.

So, if I completely DROP 6th grade math and start MM Pre-A am I skipping anything critical? Could we drop MM6 and do Tablet Class Pre-A? The format is so appealing .... and he'd have a TEACHER and need to pay attention.

I recently reserved a Jacobs Algebra text from our library. :) How did you work on reducing the "clerical errors"? What strategy? I feel caught between the need to work toward mastery and keep a shred of tolerance for math in the house. :) We usually do the corrections and I oversee that so I can steer him in the right direction to minimize the frustration level. I am interested to know if there is a WAY to reduce errors beyond continually correcting. Do they outgrow this?

I am trying to judge this situation correctly. Boredom is a possibility but I don't have enough understanding of math myself to make the call! He sees problems that I think are EASY for him and whacks the table and says, "I don't how to do this. Why does she give me problems I don't know how to do?" I try to gently remind him how to do it and then he says, "oh". I sneak around the corner to rip more of my hair out. He is HOT and COLD with math; forgetting how to do the easy and tapping his pencil waiting for me to catch up on some of the harder stuff. Sometimes I think we spend more time than is needed on some topics in MM but it's still too gray for me to know for sure. I wish I was more adept in upper level math. I want to be able to stay with this but think outsourcing may be our only hope! I need help .... We are just finishing up Chapter 3 of MM6A. It's taking far longer than I'd wanted EVEN WITH crossing stuff out. He stares, daydreams, pokes around, doodles, complains, etc. It's not that the math is too hard. I don't know that it is too easy either; I just can't tell. :confused1: And I know that pre-teen angst is at work. "Today I'm lovely, tomorrow I'll be a beast!" My 6th grade plans are not materializing as I'm spending so much time dealing with ATTITUDES and sibling rivalry and MATH hate. Some of what is going on has to be the time of life that we are in.

Well, everything in MM Pre-A looks quite doable. I decided to purchase (it's on sale) and we'll do the first chapter. Honestly, he is totally capable of all of it so I wonder what on earth is going on in math. If we SKIP MM 6th grade altogether what am I missing? We can always go back and utilize portions of it if it seems like he's struggling (which I doubt will happen). Zacarro Real World Algebra looks MUCH MORE interesting than what we've been doing and has simple, straightforward explanations of concepts (and a lot of white space on the pages :) ). We are going to work through that together with the beginning chapters of MM Pre-A and see what happens. If I don't do something different he's going to completely burn out. ETA: I did decide that finishing up Chapter 3 is to my liking. I hate leaving it undone as he's nearly there. He has one or two days worth of lesson work (we do 1/2 - 2/3 most of the time) and the chapter review. I also give tests. So by mid week next week we'll tackle chapter 1 of MM 7A and utilize Zacarro until the new year. It scares me to veer away though .... I think he needs to do the Fractions and Prime Factorization (??) chapter. Ratios and Percents I'm not sure about but those seem EASY and the review in Pre-A should be adequate.

Math has just been hard the past year .... lots of slogging and my strong math student currently "hates math". Makes me SAD and has NEVER been an issue until recently. As I'm looking at my resources and trying to ponder what, if anything, I ought to do I realize I don't understanding the progression of math at this point. Pre-A stuff looks a lot like 6th grade math (we're using Math Mammoth) ..... Any thoughts on how to help a student who is starting to HATE math to the point of wanting to quit? I have been pushing through this issue for a good long while (fall of 5th). *I* love Math Mammoth but wonder if the tedium of math has done him in .... He has always loved MM and never wanted to leave it. He actually told me he wants to do Christian Light so he has ONE lesson a day and then he's done. However, I think that CLE is easier for him and that's the draw .... IDK if I should let him go with it for awhile (I have 6th here). Thing is that I don't want to get behind in math and I hope to have him start a Zacarro book ..... I feel like I'm pushing a tractor uphill. With MM this year I'm spending GOBS of time correcting (soooo tedious) and then going back over mistakes with him (always computation or mistakes due to lack of neatness). I understand the dread he feels .... :) I may be able to see how to work with him if I can understand how 6th and Pre-A fit together. I just don't know what I can skip, speed through, overlap, etc. I can't judge the cost of "taking a break" because if we do then I KNOW we won't finish MM6 by end of school year (doing math all summer has NEVER worked here so I no longer plan on doing that).

Erin, In case you come back by here do you mind sharing what alarm you use that has a quiet ding? Maybe it's an iPod or phone but our timers are jolting. The beeping works for a transition but not as a reminder to stay on task ... We have discussed using two timers for a school work block so that one can be the Reminder to Stay on Task Timer" but they are too loud. He can't use my phone :) as it would prove WAY too distracting for him.

There have been so many wonderful, helpful suggestions from so many of you. Thanks so much for reaching out to encourage, challenge, and recommend. It didn't occur to me to trade the candy for dye free. We have Whole Foods in town =). That will absolutely work. I talked with DH this morning about meeting with the ped. to discuss the ADHD/Inattention issue. Our pediatrician is fantastic and while he is an MD he is also very holistic in his practice. He deals especially with kiddos on the autism spectrum and those dealing with ADHD so I feel that we'd be in good hands in this area. While we already have well child appointments on the books for next month I hope that we can get in a bit earlier to specifically address what I shared here. There are some questionnaires on the pediatrician's website that we are to fill out specifically targeted to families seeking help with possible ADHD.

:001_unsure: I am sorry for your loss. Grief is harder than expected. Even when you "know" it's coming you're just not able to know how you will feel or how you will handle it all until you are in it. Praying for you and your family today. It's such a painful part of life and gobs of grace are needed. :grouphug:

This is a MUCH needed gold nugget of wisdom in the "teaching from rest" discussion. Thanks Lisa!

I see him with ADD rather than ADHD unless distractibility is part of the 'H'. He is NOT hyperactive but his sister is (oh my word!). I am not opposed to medication :). I'd probably prefer to try other things first (such as those Lori mentioned) and one thing sticks way out in my mind: food dye. He had a crazy, serious reaction to food dye as a little boy (age 5 or 6). I mostly avoid it but our church has had a ridiculous amount of candy distribution going on this year and just this past weekend I was discussing with DH that it has to STOP. It's awful for the kids and DS12 stashes it away and has a steady supply of it. He doesn't pig out at all (he is very willing to delay gratification) but it HAS been more a part of his diet these past few months than ever before (this candy issue started in the summer with some programs that were running). We are currently discussing how to handle the candy situation as I've had it! It's also more sugar than I prefer my kids to have. It's no longer a "treat".