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Transcripts and scrutiny


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#1 laundrycrisis

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:20 PM

Has this article been discussed here yet ?  I looked but couldn't find it.  

 

https://www.insidehi...IdikVw.facebook



#2 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:29 PM

I wrote a response to that article and they removed it. Here is my response: (It was posted under the "con" comment.)

Your degrees neither make you an authority on whether or not homeschooling works nor do they make you knowledgeable about the plethora of educational materials available for educating children at home. Your comments reflect solely on your family and what you are personally incapable of achieving with your own children.

I don't have a PhD. It has not negated my ability to be an effective teacher for my children. The "con" I have provided my children is that they have been NMF, received national and international academic honors, scored 5s on multiple AP exams, have been honors students at the collegiate level, etc.

The student who committed fraud was not a homeschooler, and this issue is about fraud, not homeschooling. Note that the rescinding was based on the fraud committed, not on the belief that the student could not succeed academically at the university because she had been homeschooled. Universities admit homeschooled students bc the students succeed on their campuses.

If parents were such failures at educating their children, this would be a non-issue, wouldn't it? Universities would reject their applications outright because the admissions officers would know outright the students would be academically unprepared. That is not the case. Your bias does not reflect real world outcomes.

Neither does the author of the article demonstrate any understanding of admissions for homeschoolers. The article is as revealing as if it had been stated that a transcript had been printed off a home printer, my preferred method for my students' transcripts. If the cat had been admitted to any university other than perhaps a community college that does not require test scores, that would worth noting. I am unaware of any university that admits homeschooled students based on transcripts alone. (Test-optional schools are not test-optional for homeschooled students.)

I have a child who was admitted to UR. In order for the application to be complete, the minimum required was the following: an interview with an admissions officer, letters of recommendation, a peer letter of recommendation, test scores (including subject tests), course descriptions describing texts used and educational methodology, and a transcript. Even that is not going to be enough for actual admissions to a selective school like UR. Awards/honors/outside achievements are going to be required. Cat would not be admitted with the transcript, even if the meows impressed the adcom during the interview. Let the author get the cat accepted to UR and then the article might make an actual point.

The fraud the admitted student committed required far more than transcripts, and the focus on the transcript service of homeschoolers misses the real issue, the extent SOME students will lie in order to be accepted.


Edited by 8FillTheHeart, 13 September 2017 - 10:33 PM.

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#3 Julie of KY

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:46 AM

I agree, it comes down to fraud. The bigger problem is not just students lying and saying they are a homeschooler, it is anyone who lies about anything - made up awards, activities, sports, grades, transcripts. 


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#4 laundrycrisis

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 03:24 PM

What do you think about the potential need to examine homeschool transcripts more closely, ask for more specifics etc?

I have personally never felt comfortable with parent-assigned grades on a high school transcript. I know a lot of people do it that way though.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a college to want to see test scores that back up the learning that is shown on a transcript of mostly parent-assigned grades. If we want them to be admitted to college, we are asking for their entrance to that system. So they need to follow the standards of that system, which involves test scores. It is a disadvantage if a student who was homeschooled also happens to not test well, but I don't think it's wrong for a college to expect test scores that meet their requirements.
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#5 klmama

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 03:47 PM

Laundrycrisis, I don't see where anyone is arguing that homeschooled students shouldn't have to take the same tests other students have to take.  Most colleges already do look at more than just the transcript, just as it explained in the article.  SAT or ACT scores are required by almost all colleges, even those who don't require testing for traditionally-schooled students.  Some colleges also require subject tests.  Yes, requiring testing puts students who don't test well at a disadvantage, but that's the case for kids who attend public or private high schools, too.  That doesn't mean they can't get into college, just that they may not get into the top colleges.  Neither do many of the applicants who do test well, so IMHO that's not a big issue, either.  Many homeschoolers choose to include course descriptions and/or reading lists along with their applications.  Some schools want them, and some don't.  Whatever.  It's like anything else in life; if you want to part of an organization, you have to jump through its hoops.  

 

 


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#6 8FillTheHeart

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 03:58 PM

What do you think about the potential need to examine homeschool transcripts more closely, ask for more specifics etc?

I have personally never felt comfortable with parent-assigned grades on a high school transcript. I know a lot of people do it that way though.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for a college to want to see test scores that back up the learning that is shown on a transcript of mostly parent-assigned grades. If we want them to be admitted to college, we are asking for their entrance to that system. So they need to follow the standards of that system, which involves test scores. It is a disadvantage if a student who was homeschooled also happens to not test well, but I don't think it's wrong for a college to expect test scores that meet their requirements.

 

I mind if you are suggesting that homeschoolers need to submit extensive testing beyond what school students have to. Schools do not have a uniform grading system.  Grade inflation is rampant amg public and private schools.  There is no verification that school A's course is equivalent to school B's and that their grading systems are equivalent.

 

FWIW, the issue is NOT about homeschool transcripts.  It is a private school student committing fraud that went far beyond transcripts.  There is ABSOLUTELY no way that student was admitted with only falsified transcripts.  Every single part of the application had to be fabricated.  

 

That goes back to the bigger issue.  Students are fabricating ECs and honors. There is a market for cheating on standardized tests. There are people who pay essay writers to write their essays.   There are parents who start paying admissions counselors in middle school/early high school to craft their student into the "perfect" applicant.

 

I have zero qualms assigning my kids grades.  They earn every single grade they receive.  They earn their grades by doing way more work than the local schools.

 

FWIW, colleges don't have a problem accepting homeschool transcripts.  The author of those articles does. By making the fraud of a non-homeschooler about homeschooling, the author is stirring the pot. 


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#7 laundrycrisis

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 05:32 PM

I don't think homeschoolers should need to have more or higher test scores than anyone else. Toward the bottom or the article, there were comments by an author who said that colleges shouldn't rely much on test scores when evaluating homeschoolers for admission, and that low scores shouldn't be a reason for denial. That was the part that caught my attention.

Edited by laundrycrisis, 14 September 2017 - 05:35 PM.


#8 snowbeltmom

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 05:11 AM

Ugh.  I should know by now not to read the comments section when homeschooling is mentioned in an article. 

 

As an aside, does anyone know how the number of homeschoolers in the country is determined?  Considering that many states don't require homeschoolers to file any type of paperwork with anyone, how is it possible to determine how many kids are homeschooled?



#9 OneStepAtATime

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 01:10 PM

Ugh. I should know by now not to read the comments section when homeschooling is mentioned in an article.

As an aside, does anyone know how the number of homeschoolers in the country is determined? Considering that many states don't require homeschoolers to file any type of paperwork with anyone, how is it possible to determine how many kids are homeschooled?


There is no accurate way to know how many students are actually homeschooling. Anyone who says differently is deluding themselves. Heck, just in my own community, where I have lived for many years, and currently homeschool, I have no clue how many others may be homeschooling. We don't have to file anything. There is no way to accurately track it here.
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