AimeeM Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 DS7 (almost 8; rising third grader) is not yet reading fluently (Dancing Bears; about 3/4 through book A, but still reads in a rather "stunted" fashion). I would rather not start a formal writing program with him until he's reading better and has some grasp of basic grammar. So far, though, his only exposure has been my own commentary while we're reading (phonics or read alouds). Would you start a formal grammar with a non-reader? If so, which one? If not, I'm cool with going with the majority on this one. I am not confident with continuing to "teach" grammar off cuff, as I go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosie_0801 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 FLL is not what I'd call exciting, but it did the job for us. My dd was happy to work through that long before she was ready to begin WWE1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) Yup, FLL is what you're looking at. There's also a Word Fun book timberdoodle used to sell. My ds is very kinesthetic, so I'm always looking to get it moving. We read the Word Fun section and then DID the grammar, which was good for him. With ds, with his autism, even understanding the question/answer flow to identify parts of speech has been an issue. For him, the super gentle flow of the grammar in Barton has been good. She uses phrases (who, did what, where, add-on, etc.) and has them practice reading the phrases for fluency and then build them into sentences. It's pretty witty actually. Edited March 17, 2017 by OhElizabeth 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathmarm Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 In addition to First Langauge Lessons, if you want to make it a little "funner" then I have seen in my library grammar-based picture books that you might use a read-aloud and discussion point. So FLL takes about 5 minutes. Then a few times a week read some grammar picture books together. Words are Catergorical, World of Language and some various ones by Sancastle books, some of which are written by Pam Scheunemann. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterPan Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) I didn't catch that you asked whether to bother. I'm normally in the early is great camp on grammar. If the dc has no language disability, it's stuff they can memorize easily and then apply as they mature, at their own readiness. I did that with my dd and it was stellarly effective. With ds and his mix, it has been just total blank looks over the years. So I don't want to leave you with the impression that he "does" grammar. I've taken them time, occasionally, to plant some seeds, to see if I'm getting any click, to see what he's ready for. I think trying that is fine. I think it's instructive to see where they're at. But with him, all I've done is plant seeds. And we've gone from NO comprehension to almost sorta a little less of a blank look. So me, I'm cool with that. But I'm guessing that whatever click I hope to see isn't going to happen for years yet. What other people except as grammar isn't likely for a while. And I'm cool with that. I just like that now he can answer a Who question or recognize a phrase as Did what, etc. For him, where his language is, at, that's progress. We also do Mad Libs sometimes. I usually give him a list of words within the category. He's not successful at generating his own words in the category, even when given an example. Again, it's just about exposure, not expecting anything actually to happen with it. So I think you can try. If he has a preferred learning style, go at it that way. He may or may not appreciate the rhyming and humor of picture books. So far it has been largely lost on my ds. Fwiw, I think it's useful to begin to teach some beginning editing. Like back up 2 years and think ok, what are the basic conventions and punctuation I want him to know? And just begin to point those out. Use them in your spelling sessions with him. That to me is more important than part of speech identification. As far as delaying formal writing, you clearly have your plan there. I will say I think anything where we're working on expressive language, on getting our thoughts out, on being able to tell how or day went or what we liked about a book or what happened in a story, is good. I like the How to Report on Books series. For the gr1/2 book they give picture books to go with every lesson page. They're charming, easy to implement, and subtly worthwhile. I like the cumulative effect of doing small, simple, gently increasing tasks that never seem hard but get him farther than he was. I scribe them for him. For me, they're a way to work on that oral composition. Edited March 17, 2017 by OhElizabeth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 (edited) MCT's Grammar Island is something that could be done with a non-reader (ETA with you reading and scribing) *IF* the child doesn't have any major oral language issues. Has this child had any recent speech & language testing? Edited March 17, 2017 by Crimson Wife 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8Arrows4theLord Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 We waited until our son was reading with out having to sound out every word before starting grammar with him. We just finished FLL 1. It was very repetitive and simple, perfect for him (now 9 yrs. old). We did lessons orally and skipped the writing extras at the end of the lessons until he was able to do them. We made picture pages using magazine cut outs, stickers, and slips of paper that I wrote information on- to help him remember major lessons such as nouns, verbs, ect.. We made photo copies of the poems, cut them out with fancy scissors, glued them on colored paper, and then he had a ball decorating the pages with stickers and paint dabbers! He said making those pages was his favorite part of school! :laugh: He also enjoys the songs on the Cd, although my older ones are getting tired of hearing the pronoun song. I agree that you may want to just postpone the grammar and just focus on the reading skills for now. Extra work may cause more frustration. We have just started Lv. 2 with our 9 yr. old, so I can't say if lv. 2 will work as well. As my own question- what is Dancing Bears? We used Barton, is it like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElizabethB Posted April 5, 2017 Share Posted April 5, 2017 I would start with these books, most libraries have them, this verb one is my favorite. My kids had fun being verbs... https://www.amazon.com/If-You-Were-Verb-Word-ebook/dp/B00ESEEE7O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1491430173&sr=8-1&keywords=if+i+were+a+verb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 (edited) MCT's Grammar Island is something that could be done with a non-reader (ETA with you reading and scribing) *IF* the child doesn't have any major oral language issues. Has this child had any recent speech & language testing? He just had a full private eval last week with the same (developmental) psych who took care of Younger Brother's eval and dx. I love MCT and keep eyeing Grammar Island :p That and Cottage Press (which seems awfully sweet and gentle). ETA: I won't get the results of his eval until the 18th. Edited April 8, 2017 by AimeeM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AimeeM Posted April 8, 2017 Author Share Posted April 8, 2017 We waited until our son was reading with out having to sound out every word before starting grammar with him. We just finished FLL 1. It was very repetitive and simple, perfect for him (now 9 yrs. old). We did lessons orally and skipped the writing extras at the end of the lessons until he was able to do them. We made picture pages using magazine cut outs, stickers, and slips of paper that I wrote information on- to help him remember major lessons such as nouns, verbs, ect.. We made photo copies of the poems, cut them out with fancy scissors, glued them on colored paper, and then he had a ball decorating the pages with stickers and paint dabbers! He said making those pages was his favorite part of school! :laugh: He also enjoys the songs on the Cd, although my older ones are getting tired of hearing the pronoun song. I agree that you may want to just postpone the grammar and just focus on the reading skills for now. Extra work may cause more frustration. We have just started Lv. 2 with our 9 yr. old, so I can't say if lv. 2 will work as well. As my own question- what is Dancing Bears? We used Barton, is it like that? DB is a British OG-based phonics/reading program for children with reading and/or language-based learning differences. My son really enjoys the stories (which are kind of crass by U.S. standards -- and right up his alley, lol). I'm not sure exactly what Barton is, as I've never used it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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