IEP reading/spelling and math help (cross posted)

[amo_mea_filiis.]

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(If I use "an" where "and" belongs, or miss a d, I apologize. My d key is not working very well.)

 

I know, I know, this is a homeschool board, but you guys have experience in everything, especially in curricula.

 

I put my special needs 11 year old in a public cyber for the behavioral support. Obviously this comes with public school academics as well. Since he's been homeschooled for almost 5 years, there's no data or IEP for them to go on. Until his IEP is in place, I'll continue homeschooling him and I just email his teachers weekly with what he's done.

 

He will have an IEP, but I don't think I like the programs they lean towards for math and reading. They use SRA reading and SRA math.

 

I can't find much on these online, but what I've seen with a friend's son doesn't look promising for us.

 

My son CAN read, but not very well. Actually, what he reads, he reads well, but he doesn't like to work at it and isn't moving up much. He can fluently read Magic Tree House, and reads aloud from the 2nd McGuffey's reader. He loves Amulet, a graphic novel series, but there's really nothing else he'll willingly read. When he tries new books, he has difficulty with vocabulary, decoding bigger words, and stamina. When he did the LEAP 5th grade reading assessment, he read the first several sentences fairly well, but then started missing words, and the teacher prompted him "wrong," which annoyed him and he lost focus and motivation.

 

He doesn't really spell and his writing content, written and orally, is about a sentence or two. We're using SotW and it's like pulling teeth to get more than a word out of him (he's been in speech since he was 18 months; word recall, general expression, etc). Anyway, I just reintroduced AAS and so far he's doing well. He's only at step 7 or 8, but previous attempts didn't go this well.

 

We were using CLE LA 2nd grade, but he stalled at the 4th book, retained nothing, and never retained the spelling. I had him continue for exposure only, but essentially dropped it. For LA I have him doing AAS, HWT cursive success, and a fluency notebook that I make weekly depending on his mood. Sometimes we go through CLE, but I'm not expecting much.

 

I want to use Barton as his entire LA program, but I don't know how to compare SRA with Barton, and without that comparison, I can't argue that it's better. I don't know how SRA handles spelling, but I on't want the focus to be entirely reading. Ds also does best with all-in-one type books, an gets very, VERY mad when "English" contains 4 or 5 different things.

 

Child in question has been in a mood, and up my butt, so I lost my train of thought here. Lol.

 

What do you know about the SRA programs? How can I convince the school to try Barton first? (I think Barton is similar to AAS and AAS is working)

 

What other math programs are out there for kids with disabilities?

 

He's been using R&S 1st grade an the missing concepts seem to be finally sticking, although I won't know until I try to get him using the skill within other skills. R&S is (so far) slow, repetitive, and to the point. He's not likely going to do algebra or beyond, and I'd really like to get his skills solid where he's capable (he's theoretically capable of all math prior to algebra). He's great with memorization, so basic + - x / go very well, but as soon as I try to teach carrying or borrowing, he's lost again. He can count money an make change, but telling time is not sticking. He's *finally* consistently identifying ones, tens, hundreds, 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, and can read a thermometer.

 

(He has mild autism, moderate-severe ADHD combined type, an a borderline IQ)

[Lecka]

My 7-year-old son is doing Reading Mastery which is a SRA Reading program.

 

It is recommended for him bc it is designed as a direct instruction program, and it is appropriate for a student who has a lower language level.

 

Here Touch Math is what is popular for math, not SRA Math.

 

I think you need to figure out what you are looking for in reading. I think you may need something in addition to Barton, it may not be a complete language arts program for your son bc he may have additional needs in comprehension areas (etc).

 

There is an SRA comprehension program that has a good reputation for autism.

 

But whether or not it ha appropriate for your son's level, I don't know.

 

If you are doing well with Barton -- that says a lot about it proving it is an effective program for him!

 

I have a positive impression of the SRA programs in general, but I think you need to see what they are like and if they are right for your son, where he is, and his current goals.

 

They could be fine in general but not the right thing for him right now.

[PeterPan]

Barton isn't meant for that situation.  It specifically says it's not for ID, and I can tell you from what you're describing he would find the materials hard to understand.

 

The ps in your district of residence needs to do evals on him and give him an IEP.  You should give them evidence to get them to do language testing as part of it.  My ds (ASD, verbal apraxia, etc.) had issues with reading because he wasn't comprehending.  The language testing can help you sort that out.

 

Do you have non-cyber options?  

[amo_mea_filiis.]

He's not ID. His iq is about 78, and he has language skills above the second grade level, which is required for Barton.

 

If Barton can get his decoding and fluency up, his SLP can target the lagging vocabulary needed for comprehension. His comprehension overall seems decent. He loves audiobooks and seems to grasp what he's hearing. I think he has the ability to comprehend, but is intimidated by reading.

 

The biggest hurdle for his behavior is getting nearly all in one programs. So math has to be one math book. He will not also go on a math game for skills practice, but he wouldn't generalize from game to book anyway.

 

LA is currently in pieces and it's difficult to complete daily. If there is something to target reading, spelling, and writing (I'd use the writing component to hit penmanship), and comprehension had to be supplemented, that would be fine. But having separate reading, spelling, writing, grammar, etc., is becoming a huge problem.

 

We do not have non-cyber options. The local school is a joke. The evals are being done though the cyber, not the local district.

 

The evals are almost done. I already know that ABA is going to be recommended. I can't imagine he wouldn't qualify for speech. I'm not sure about OT, but it's not my biggest concern since we'll have ABA (I can teach the OT skills, and ABA can help generalize them). I hope he shows learning difficulties beyond "just" a borderline iq because those kids don't get services.

[PeterPan]

You're right, he's there on the IQ.  Well good! Have you looked at the comprehension guides to go with the Barton levels?  

 

Do you think the ABA people will be able to help with these transition issues?  

[amo_mea_filiis.]

We've had a BCBA since October and she's going to help make sure we have an experienced team. So they had better be able to help! Lol

 

I have not looked at the comp guides because I can't even afford Barton. :( (not a priority thing, we're just poor)

 

[PeterPan]

Speech therapy can be for language issues as well.  For my ds, the comprehension was partly language.  Hopefully they ran thorough testing and are going to give you some good recommendations and services.  

[OneStepAtATime]

We've had a BCBA since October and she's going to help make sure we have an experienced team. So they had better be able to help! Lol

 

I have not looked at the comp guides because I can't even afford Barton. :( (not a priority thing, we're just poor)

Sadly the cost is prohibitive for many.  Cheaper than private specialized tutoring by hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars but still pricey.  I hope the school will work with you on this.  Barton might very well help since he needs all in one and specialized help and that is what Barton is.

 

Have you checked in your area to see if maybe someone is willing to sell Barton used more cheaply?  Also, if there were a way to scrape up the money to get a level, you could then sell that level for nearly the original cost and use that money to buy the next level.  Thought I would mention it since some people aren't aware of the good resale value.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Oh his speech therapy has supposed to have been for language. His artic is fine.

 

I can't rely on resale value because of his behaviors. Things get thrown a LOT around here. Unfortunately, I could never do the specialized tutoring either. :(

 

I'm still waiting for an SLP to be assigned (they're running out of time!) and will make sure she tests the right areas. His BCBA will talk to the SLP as well since she sees his language problems as a huge hurdle in day to day functioning.

 

He talks, and even has conversations, but doesn't. If that makes any sense. When he doesn't understand something, explanations tend to fail too. But, if you weren't trying to find problems, you could probably chat with him and not realize how much he struggles. He struggles most, it seems, with day to day figurative language or phrases we take for granted (one day I told him to "show off" something to his BCBA, and he got mad. We tried to explain that show off was a good thing, but he never really got it. I meant it like "Oh, show x your lego build." I don't remember what we were talking about though). His BCBA has noticed that he tries to just play along, but his behavior will change opposite of what we expected, usually indicating he took the wrong meaning, even if it was VERY simple. 

[OneStepAtATime]

I wish I had more useful suggestions but you have gotten quite a few here.  Hopefully they will help.  Wishing you and your family all the best.  Good luck OP.  

[amo_mea_filiis.]

The BCBA (through the school) seems like she'll be recommending 15 hours a week of support. I'm going to ask her for more because we have soooooo many things to target! 3 hours a day may not even hit a meal time.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I am so far loving the psych doing the eval! She's giving a bit of feedback as he goes through stuff.

 

So, despite 5 years of serious phonics work he is still a whole word reader. His decoding is around 2nd grade, but his comprehension (ability to put a missing word in a very short passage) is around 4th. His spelling around 2nd.

 

I think that means Barton could work for him. He really needs to be able to break down words on his own.

 

I'll update more in a bit.

 

I'm currently sitting outside because his attention was failing and he holds it together better without me in the room.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Oh, his regular BCBA is pushing school BCBA to double the requested hours.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

The school is still dragging their heels on the timeline. Ugh.

 

His evaluations are done. FSIQ was inaccurate (61), but if you ignore one piece, the rest averages to his known mid-70's. Since I sat through the testing, I know that the one part I'm ignoring was not clearly explained and he really had no idea what to do.

 

Speech is recommended at twice a week for 30 minutes. OT only 60 minutes a month. ABA tutor/instructional aide at 20 hours a week with BCBA 10 hours a month.

 

Unfortunately they are putting him in the SRA program for reading and math. I'll let them use it for the last bit of school this year, and will fight for something else (probably Barton) over the summer. SRA doesn't touch spelling, and he needs VERY direct instruction in spelling, like AAS.

 

His reading this morning during placement was atrocious. Choppy, missing words, reading through punctuation, etc. Yet he placed in the highest level. Based on that alone, I have no faith in the SRA program.

 

He also tested into 3rd grade math. Again, his skills were very off today. He was answering basic arithmetic wrong, not following directions, and wrote several numbers wrong (206 for 260). He's never even been exposed to 2nd grade materials, still can't consistently write 1/3 vs 2/3, and he somehow placed 3rd grade?!

 

I wish we were in a state where I could get support where I wanted/needed! I'll take the ABA hours, speech hours, Barton please, and leave the rest to me.

[PeterPan]

Fwiw, in a state like ours with an autism scholarship that you give up your FAPE to receive, you still wouldn't be able to fund everything you're getting from the school.  Here your ABA, BCBA, OT, and ST would be $2450 a month.  That, done through the year, would use up your entire scholarship.  You'd end up enrolling in a charter school and having a little extra for therapies *or* you'd fight some more even and try to get the ps to pay for the charter *and* the therapies.  

 

In other words, you're probably get more services than what you could afford in places where there is choice in funding.  Not that it's much consolation.  :(

Edited April 25, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[amo_mea_filiis.]

If they don't get this darn IEP meeting scheduled, we won't have any of it! I just sent a nice nasty-gram to the sped coordinator.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

We just got the SRA stuff in the mail. It's completely inappropriate for him. :(

 

The reading level is "corrective," and the book is "decoding strategies," but there's really nothing more than practice. There doesn't look to be any actual instruction.

 

Language arts is the 3rd grade level and starts off with writing a paragraph. Yeah, he's *barely* writing a sentence to describe pictures.

 

There's no spelling instruction in LA or reading.

 

The math is also 3rd. He's working end of 1st, and struggling.

 

His meeting is May 11th.

[PeterPan]

I'm reading Nurturing Narratives and it says it can be appropriate for ID and anyone with "complicated language problems."  Might appeal to you.  I'm still plugging through the book to see how practical it will be.  Sometimes books tell you all the theory and leave you to get there yourself.  It's sold by the Social Thinking people, and they're trying to make a model that blends development of language, sequencing/EF, theory of mind, etc.  

 

Sorry your new stuff was a bummer.  :(

Edited May 1, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[OneStepAtATime]

We just got the SRA stuff in the mail. It's completely inappropriate for him. :(

 

The reading level is "corrective," and the book is "decoding strategies," but there's really nothing more than practice. There doesn't look to be any actual instruction.

 

Language arts is the 3rd grade level and starts off with writing a paragraph. Yeah, he's *barely* writing a sentence to describe pictures.

 

There's no spelling instruction in LA or reading.

 

The math is also 3rd. He's working end of 1st, and struggling.

 

His meeting is May 11th.

Well, that stinks!

[Citrusheights5]

My 2 cents, charters suck at IEP's. As a whole they do not have the available resource, so they do a reverse of what can they do and make your child fit in to their boxes. It's a sad reality.

 

What can you do? Fight for a 504, and what specifically it says in your iep. They will say a 504 is not necissary, but don't buy it. Say you need it incase of future transfer. On it you can have listed every assistance needed. On our we have, all test are read alound, the use of a caluclator, and assisitive technology, and audio books when avaialble, small groups (even though he was alone at home), use of mailpulatives for math, modified grades to reflect grade level for ELA and Math, open book for test. Etc.

 

On the IEP , under the goals it should say something that you are working towards. So writting a complete paragraph will be a goal, but not expecteD at first. You can demand it say beginning with sentance formation, then 2 and 3, etc. The expectation is you do the"lesson", but the paragraph from the curriculum, becomes a sentance at first.

 

Listen to them, explain everything. Nod smile, and remember you can walk away without signing the iep. I have litterary crossed off things from the IEP and written. Rejected for thing I KNEW would not serve my son. You can demand it be rewritten before you sign. You can insist that it reflect not only his abilities but your abilities as his teachers regarding what you can do.

 

Unfortunately there is not much that can be done about the curriculum baselines. I usually insist on minimal work so I can do Barton and other stuff in that time.

 

I keep using the word demand because iep meetings are nerve wracking, and to ask implies they can turn you down. I cried 5 tines when telling them no.

 

I printed off a bunch of example IEP's and 504 plans before I arrived so that I could say ... no look this is a typical accomodation. No this is a reasonable remediation. If nothing else try to limit what won't work so you'll have time to do what will work.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

An IEP gives all of the protections in a 504 plan and then some. Anything that can be written into a 504 can go into an IEP.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Thankfully it's a cyber school (phone meeting), so I can roll my eyes all I need to! Lol

[Citrusheights5]

Ugh, I got so much push back about the 504 the first time around, that we didn't get one, then when we got a new CT, she would not accept any work because it was done on computer, or with a calculator etc, because the iep didn't specify that, only the 504! I ended up getting the iep for goals, and the 504 for the modifications.

 

Glad to hear you can roll your eyes on the phone!

[amo_mea_filiis.]

Ugh, I got so much push back about the 504 the first time around, that we didn't get one, then when we got a new CT, she would not accept any work because it was done on computer, or with a calculator etc, because the iep didn't specify that, only the 504! I ended up getting the iep for goals, and the 504 for the modifications.

 

Glad to hear you can roll your eyes on the phone!

That's crazy! (On the school's part). An accommodation of typing/computer work is absolutely something that can go in an IEP! I "love" when schools and teachers spew bs without ever reading the law.

 

Yeah, being over the phone will make this much easier! Lol

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I am so extremely disappointed in the draft IEP. While I completely understand that it's a draft, I also know it's the document they'd use if the parent had no clue what to look for.

 

His goals are pathetic, and not appropriate to the level he's working at. 

 

His classification is OHI and speech and language. Autism is briefly mentioned in one section. Sigh.

 

Wednesday's meeting is only planned for 90 minutes. There's no way that'll work. I'm going to ask that we only review the evaluations briefly. I can read them fine, and do not want that taking up much time.

 

We'll probably have to split it. 

[OneStepAtATime]

I am so extremely disappointed in the draft IEP. While I completely understand that it's a draft, I also know it's the document they'd use if the parent had no clue what to look for.

 

His goals are pathetic, and not appropriate to the level he's working at. 

 

His classification is OHI and speech and language. Autism is briefly mentioned in one section. Sigh.

 

Wednesday's meeting is only planned for 90 minutes. There's no way that'll work. I'm going to ask that we only review the evaluations briefly. I can read them fine, and do not want that taking up much time.

 

We'll probably have to split it. 

Is there any way to send them a checklist of the things you intend/desire to cover during that meeting?  And is there any way to extend the meeting time to 2 hours?

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[amo_mea_filiis.]

They know most of my issues. I've been emailing with the sped teacher, and sped manager for 98 days now! Basically, everything I've been emailing is everything that was left out of the draft.  

[amo_mea_filiis.]

I emailed his science and social studies to ask her to modify the modified assignment, and to ask if she had live lessons.

 

I never received a response about the assignment. Previously she said that I could help him (really?! no s***! However, since he's a public school student with teachers, I'd rather *they* modify and help). Then about the live lessons, she said he should have access to the recordings put out by his regular science and social studies teacher. Um, how's that going to help when he's not working or understanding at that level?! I thought his going in this Schoology thing for those subjects was similar to an alternative curriculum.

[OneStepAtATime]

I emailed his science and social studies to ask her to modify the modified assignment, and to ask if she had live lessons.

 

I never received a response about the assignment. Previously she said that I could help him (really?! no s***! However, since he's a public school student with teachers, I'd rather *they* modify and help). Then about the live lessons, she said he should have access to the recordings put out by his regular science and social studies teacher. Um, how's that going to help when he's not working or understanding at that level?! I thought his going in this Schoology thing for those subjects was similar to an alternative curriculum.

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

[Storygirl]

That sounds so frustrating! I hope you are able to work out something at your meeting. I'm guessing part of your issue is that they cyber school has a set way of doing things and is less flexible about modifying for children who don't fit their mold. We just completed the IEP process for two of our children (through a private school, but the public schools did the evaluation and the IEP), and we found that the IEP is individualized up to a point. The accommodations and goals are all specific to what my kids need, but the amount of time that they are allotted for specialized help and the kind of materials that would be used were not as changeable.

 

For example, DS scored at the very bottom of his pragmatics testing, but he was only given 20 minutes a week with the SLP. That is obviously not enough for him to make progress. Yet it is all that the school would provide.

 

I also think that the school's choice of curricula is not what I would pick for him if I could choose something perfect for his needs. He has to use the regular texts but will have the assignments modified for him, and in some cases will have extra teaching of concepts and skills. That's helpful, but he will still struggle to learn from the regular materials, because they won't be exactly what would suit him best.

 

It is frustrating that the IEP could not be 100% perfect for all of DS's needs, but I've come to understand that the schools are not legally required to provide that. Under IDEA, they don't have to give children the best or optimum education, just an "appropriate" education. Of course, as parents, we want to shoot for the best! So it's frustrating. I'm finding that I'm going to have to think about his education being a team experience: the school will play its part, but it won't necessarily be enough, and I will have to add some things in. For example, we may need to find a private social skills group to add to the help he is getting at school; we are arranging additional tutoring; and I have some things I want him to do over the summer so that he doesn't lose ground during the break. Those are all in addition to the IEP, because the IEP is just not enough.

 

I really hope you can work some things out and that he will end up with a good IEP in the end.

[Storygirl]

About the qualifying condition. I really thought that if a child had been diagnosed with autism, that the qualifying condition would be autism. That just seems to be logical. But I've found through my own discussions with our special ed team and conversations with friends, that some schools will not list autism as the qualifying condition as long as they can show that the needs of the child can be met through another category.

 

I've been asking about this, because we have been considering having DS12 screened for autism (he currently has an NVLD dx), and I wanted to have an idea about how a new diagnosis might affect his IEP. (I think it would change nothing on the IEP for him, because the would claim they are providing services for all of his areas of need anyway, so a bump in the category would not be necessary.)

 

In your case, since you need so much help from the behaviorists, I would question whether the the OHI and speech categories really are correct. You may find that they won't budge on changing his qualifying condition to autism, but you can make them explain why. And it's worth trying. I don't know if it is true in your area, but having autism as the qualifying condition opens up more opportunities for assistance where we live, so asking the school to justify their decision would be worthwhile.

[amo_mea_filiis.]

The expected support is why I'm not going to give up on the autism classification. We could even argue that his ADHD is just a result of his spectrum qualities. 

 

20 hours a week ABA is not going to last long for OHI. I wish ABA wasn't tied so tightly with autism, but it is as far as getting the help.