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#1 Sahamamama

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:49 PM

I'm starting to think of our line up for 3rd grade, and we're going with "the simpler, the better" for this upcoming level.

We like certain aspects of All About Spelling, but... it's a bit of a hassle to drag out the board, utilize the tiles, and go through all the scripted lesson. We have no place (truly) to mount the board, but I don't think it would help if we did put it on a wall. We've tried doing lessons without the tiles, yet haven't exactly figured out how that works when the teacher directs the student to "look at this" or "look at that."

Also, it's so teacher-intensive/directed. My natural speller really doesn't need hand-holding for spelling, and I'd like to put my effort into teaching our upcoming twin 1st graders. I do think that Levels 1-4 are a good foundation, but after that, I don't know how to speed it up or make it more directed by the student.

This child could really do spelling on her own, if she even needs it at all. So, what could we do with AAS (we have up to Level 5 or 6, I think -- don't really remember what's on the shelf, LOL)? Or, what else could we use that teaches WHAT All About Spelling teachers, just not HOW (i.e., teacher-directed)?
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#2 mystika1

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 07:53 PM

Some people have recomended Rod and Staff spelling as a good alternative in the past. I use AAS without the tiles like a spelling list with rules. It only takes us about 10 minutes.

Penny

#3 SFM

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:03 PM

I, like yourself, was tired of using AAS. Those tiles drove me nuts. However, my son needs some remedial phonics and spelling help so we are using the Spalding method starting Monday using the Writing Road to Reading manual. I like that there aren't a lot of pieces, I think it would work for both natural and struggling spellers. However, I think (at least in the beginning) it will be somewhat teacher directed/intensive.

All of that to say, I have used R&S and really like it and I think it would be good for a natural speller and it is much more independent. :)

#4 Sahamamama

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

Some people have recomended Rod and Staff spelling as a good alternative in the past. I use AAS without the tiles like a spelling list with rules. It only takes us about 10 minutes.

Penny


Do you just not bring out the tiles or board at all? If not, then what does your student focus on or look at while you teach the lesson? Do you have your student read the manual with you? Or do you just write the words with marker on a board? If you do that, then do you have your student divide the words into syllables? Use syllable tags? Do you review with the cards? And even if you eliminate the tiles and board and cards, is the spelling instruction still teacher-directed?

Sorry to be so dense, I've just not been able to get a good grasp on how to make these scripted lessons work without the tiles and the board and all the content coming through me. I like AAS, but I wish that around Level 4 or 5, it would be addressed directly to the student, or at least have a "Speed Track" option for natural spellers who could benefit from going faster. My student is ready for something faster and addressed to her. And this would be true of her even if we didn't have other students coming up into the mix. She's just ready to work through rules and lists out of a workbook, but has to wait for the spelling instruction to pass through me. KWIM? I'd like to stop being the conduit. She does not need me for spelling.

#5 Doodle

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 08:56 PM

I only purchased the book for AAS. I did not bother with all the extras. Too distracting for us. We use a white board for the lesson. Doodle learns the rules, syllable types, etc, but we simply do not need to have the written labels on little individual cards to learn them. As the rules are introduced, I write them on a 4x6 note card that I keep in the book and use as a book mark. To divide a word into syllables, he just uses the marker and draws a line. I ask him what the syllable types are and he simply tells me. He used to write the dictated words/sentences on the white board, but this year I have him do it on lined paper so I have some spelling samples for the school district. We do not do the constant review of previous words. I feel the dictated sentences naturally increase in difficulty.
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#6 MerryAtHope

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

My kids are older so we rarely use the tiles now. I write the words on paper. If I'm introducing a new phonogram, I write that on the paper and either underline or draw a box around it. You can do that in words if you want to reinforce that visual there too. My kids draw a line to divide a word into syllables, and verbally tell me what kind of syllable each one is.
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#7 mystika1

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:03 PM

Do you just not bring out the tiles or board at all? If not, then what does your student focus on or look at while you teach the lesson? Do you have your student read the manual with you? Or do you just write the words with marker on a board? If you do that, then do you have your student divide the words into syllables? Use syllable tags? Do you review with the cards? And even if you eliminate the tiles and board and cards, is the spelling instruction still teacher-directed?


When the lesson calls for us to build a word, we either use paper or the white board.(I usually just grab paper) Anytime the manual asks for the word to be split into syllables my dd writes the word and uses a line to divide it up. She also writes above each divided syllable what the tag would say. My dd hates the tiles tho. She would rather just write it out. It used to take her more time fishing through the tiles than to just write it out. The rules are mostly already shown in the lesson with the manual so I just read it aloud instead of getting out cards. My dd is a get er done kind of kid. Yes, it is still teacher led. But, it goes very fast when you don't have to take out tiles and cards.

Thanks,

Penny
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#8 Sahamamama

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:10 PM

I only purchased the book for AAS. I did not bother with all the extras. Too distracting for us. We use a white board for the lesson. Doodle learns the rules, syllable types, etc, but we simply do not need to have the written labels on little individual cards to learn them. As the rules are introduced, I write them on a 4x6 note card that I keep in the book and use as a book mark. To divide a word into syllables, he just uses the marker and draws a line. I ask him what the syllable types are and he simply tells me. He used to write the dictated words/sentences on the white board, but this year I have him do it on lined paper so I have some spelling samples for the school district. We do not do the constant review of previous words. I feel the dictated sentences naturally increase in difficulty.


We could do it this way, and that would speed it up. I'll give it a try tomorrow morning. I know it's Saturday! :) I'm that mother, LOL.


My kids are older so we rarely use the tiles now. I write the words on paper. If I'm introducing a new phonogram, I write that on the paper and either underline or draw a box around it. You can do that in words if you want to reinforce that visual there too. My kids draw a line to divide a word into syllables, and verbally tell me what kind of syllable each one is.


Hi, Merry, I was hoping you would stop by here. :seeya:

There are times when I know my daughter enjoys the tiles. Okay, she always likes them. ;) But I do think that she is growing out of needing them, and by 3rd grade, I'd like to streamline things as much as possible. My twins will be 1st graders, and you know how teacher-intensive that can be!

We love the clarity of the AAS lessons, the reliability of the rules, the regular dictation, and the built-in review. My daughter likes the stickers she puts on the chart! Ha ha. We do get it all, and we like having the option to get the fun extras. But I like these ideas about how to just teach without the tiles by using a white board or drawing a box around a phonogram to resemble a tile. I suppose when we first introduce a new phonogram, we could put that tile on the magnetic marker board (small one) and work with it for a while, then transition to just using a marker.

Yes, I am going to pull this sweet child away from her new Christmas and birthday presents on Saturday morning to test these great ideas! :lol: :lol: Won't she just LOVE spelling? :rolleyes:

#9 blondeviolin

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Posted 04 January 2013 - 10:28 PM

We hardly use the tiles for my oldest who is almost finished with level 2. She actually gets annoyed if I suggest it. Like the others, she draws a line where she would divide the words and I underline any new teams we may be studying. She labels syllables either VCE (vowel-consonant-e), R-controlled (draws an r with a lasso LOL), C (closed), O (open), or VT (vowel team). It hasn't seemed to affect her to miss the tiles. She also doesn't seem to need constant review. She goes through a step a week and could go through it all twice that fast at least, but I can't seem to (as in, I have other stuff going on in my life ;)).

BUT, there is How to Teach Spelling and the subsequent workbooks (How to Spell) that are VERY similar in style to AAS.

#10 MerryAtHope

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 12:31 AM

There are times when I know my daughter enjoys the tiles. Okay, she always likes them. ;) But I do think that she is growing out of needing them, and by 3rd grade, I'd like to streamline things as much as possible. My twins will be 1st graders, and you know how teacher-intensive that can be!


You know what, you could leave the tile board set up for your kids to play school with. Would your 3rd grader like, once or twice a week, to help teach spelling to your first graders and they could all make words with the letter tiles?

BTW, my daughter used the tiles regularly until she was 12, then started choosing not to sometimes--but still liked to other times! For some kids they just are fun. Now she has the white board in her room, and is using it for paper dolls that are stuck on printable magnets. I bought her a pack of 5 pages & she drew clothes and shoes on them to her heart's content! Now she's practicing for a spelling bee...and she's taking the list of words, writing them on the board, dividing them into syllables and analyzing how to know how to spell each one with AAS methods. Awesome!

Oh, you mentioned about not having a place to mount the board--when we used ours, I reoriented ours vertically and hung it on the outside of a closet door!

Anyway, I hope you can find a way to make it work that fits your family, or find a good alternative. Merry :-)
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#11 Xanadu

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:50 AM

We use sequential spelling, the DVD version after AAS failed for us. (kids hated the board, hated having to be dependent on me...Now they just do the lesson, with audio and visual immediate feedback via the DVD. Hands free for me and they actually like spelling now...takes about 10 min a day.

#12 Mama2two

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 06:29 AM

Do you just not bring out the tiles or board at all? If not, then what does your student focus on or look at while you teach the lesson? Do you have your student read the manual with you? Or do you just write the words with marker on a board? If you do that, then do you have your student divide the words into syllables? Use syllable tags? Do you review with the cards? And even if you eliminate the tiles and board and cards, is the spelling instruction still teacher-directed?

Sorry to be so dense, I've just not been able to get a good grasp on how to make these scripted lessons work without the tiles and the board and all the content coming through me. I like AAS, but I wish that around Level 4 or 5, it would be addressed directly to the student, or at least have a "Speed Track" option for natural spellers who could benefit from going faster. My student is ready for something faster and addressed to her. And this would be true of her even if we didn't have other students coming up into the mix. She's just ready to work through rules and lists out of a workbook, but has to wait for the spelling instruction to pass through me. KWIM? I'd like to stop being the conduit. She does not need me for spelling.


We also don't use the tiles at all. What you describe wanting is a lot of what I do with my daughter. I will write anything I need down and we talk about the syllable/division and any new rules. I have my kids them write down the words/sentences and when they make a mistake I put a mark in the book and we review that one the next day. I will stay with the step until I am confident they understand the rules/know the words. My daughter is a nature speller and is almost done with level 4. I don't use the cards with her. My son is at the beginning of level 3 and he needs a lot of review so I do use the cards for him.
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#13 Sahamamama

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 10:50 AM

You know what, you could leave the tile board set up for your kids to play school with. Would your 3rd grader like, once or twice a week, to help teach spelling to your first graders and they could all make words with the letter tiles?

BTW, my daughter used the tiles regularly until she was 12, then started choosing not to sometimes--but still liked to other times! For some kids they just are fun. Now she has the white board in her room, and is using it for paper dolls that are stuck on printable magnets. I bought her a pack of 5 pages & she drew clothes and shoes on them to her heart's content! Now she's practicing for a spelling bee...and she's taking the list of words, writing them on the board, dividing them into syllables and analyzing how to know how to spell each one with AAS methods. Awesome!

Oh, you mentioned about not having a place to mount the board--when we used ours, I reoriented ours vertically and hung it on the outside of a closet door!

Anyway, I hope you can find a way to make it work that fits your family, or find a good alternative. Merry :-)



Thanks, Merry! I saw that post about hanging the board vertically. That's a great idea. Unfortunately, our house is 748 square feet for five people, so everything really is tightly squeezed at this point. We are hoping to move this year, though, so we're praying that our new house will have a place for some of our valued homeschool stuff. :)

I do like the idea of Crash teaching Bang and Boom. She enjoys teaching her sisters, and they are willing students. In fact, they all know how to tell time to the minute, and I never taught the twins to tell time. And, they all enjoy counting their money (over and over and over, every time they earn a nickel, LOL). Again, my oldest daughter taught the younger two. I think I might have taught them the values of the coins, and she took it from there. As I type this, she is teaching them to crochet. So... that really is a good idea for us, I think. Hmmm... you have me thinking, ha ha. I might be out of a job soon.

I can picture my girls playing paper dolls on the board, too. :)

About finding a good alternative -- I don't like any other spelling program. :toetap05: I look, but that's it. My poor husband hears what I think about "find the error" spelling programs! When I found AAS, I was impressed that someone finally wrote a spelling program not based on misspelled words. My pet peeve.

The possible exception would be Spelling Power, which I think would work well for a natural speller who is ready to study only words that she doesn't know how to spell. But I also think that, even for a strong speller, third grade might be too early to put aside explicit instruction in HOW and WHY we spell the way we do. Spelling Power strikes me as more of a test-word list-study-test approach, which could (IMO) have benefits for some students. I also like some aspects of Natural Speller by Kathryn Stout, because the student works with a well-defined list to mastery, breaks words into parts, adds prefixes and suffixes, utilizes the dictionary, practices abbreviations & capitalization, learns about plurals and possessives, learns about homophones and homographs, and studies words in families based on sound/structure.

I think we will just work on moving, because we need to do that, anyway. Hopefully, by the start of 3rd grade, space won't be as much of an issue, if at all. And then we'll continue working through AAS to the end, then work through Spelling Power if we need it.

On a personal note, I pray for you and your family. My husband is a Dave, too. I pray for your David, and for you. I had Lyme Disease (undiagnosed) for years, and it might have been the reason for autoimmune complications & Hashimoto's (thyroid), and in the end I had thyroid cancer and a thyroidectomy. It can be a long haul to reclaim good health and strength. It was especially hard when the doctors said it was all in my head, KWIM? Well, no, actually...

:grouphug: Strength and hope for Merry & Company!

#14 boscopup

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:23 AM

R&S Spelling has been the closest independent spelling I could find to AAS. While it isn't *exactly* like it, the phonograms and rules taught are *very* similar. For example, it explains when to use c vs. k or k vs. ck, etc. It talks about syllabication and gives the kids plenty of practice with it. It tells them that 'ou' is usually used in the middle of the word. Most of what AAS teaches seems to be in these workbooks. Now it's not as explicit, but it's in there. As the children work with the words via the exercises (with have NO misspelled words ;) ), they learn to spell the words. It's great.

We did through about half of AAS level 3, then went over to R&S Spelling 3. It's been a great fit, and I have seen improvement in his spelling. We start level 4 next week, and level 4 is even more phonics heavy than level 3 was.

And best of all... I can hand my son the workbook, let him work in it for 5-10 minutes, and he's done. He does the workbook two days per week (part A one day, parts B and C the next day). Then the other two days he studies the words on his own (again, all independent). On Friday, I give him a spelling test. Easy peasy. And again, as he works with the words, he is really learning about spelling. Such a simple, yet effective program. Don't let the grade 2 book scare you off - it's a bit more random and not as phonetic, because the kids in grade 2 are expected to be doing R&S Phonics 2. The grade 3 book starts grouping words by phonograms and rules, and then they point out the phonograms throughout the exercises.

For a kid that doesn't actually need an O-G program, I think R&S Spelling is awesome. :)

#15 Doodle

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:29 AM

I did not hang my white board on a wall. I have a dish cabinet in my school room ( dining room) that I hang the board on. My husband put hooks on the board which I then attached a string to the hooks. At the very top front edge of the cabinet, I put two push pins and use them to hang the board by the string. When I want to put away or hide the board, I slide it under the chair or couch.

#16 Terabith

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 11:34 AM

I haven't actually used it, but I wonder if IEW's Phonetic Zoo would work? I've heard that it uses a similar, phonogram based methodology and is addressed to the student. They recommend AAS levels 1-3 as prerequesites, so I imagine it's somewhat compatible.

#17 MeganW

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 02:30 PM

Have you seen picture where someone organized AAS in a file folder? I can't find it to save my life, but hopefully someone else will know what I am talking about and post a link.

ETA: AH HA!!!!
http://hopeforhomesc...ini-office.html
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#18 Sahamamama

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Posted 05 January 2013 - 04:49 PM

Have you seen picture where someone organized AAS in a file folder? I can't find it to save my life, but hopefully someone else will know what I am talking about and post a link.

ETA: AH HA!!!!
http://hopeforhomesc...ini-office.html



Yes, the clever and lovely Merry. Here's her update on the mini-office.

http://hopeforhomesc...ice-update.html

Thanks for posting!
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