Adult children vent...

[laughing lioness]

Just really needing a place to vent: I have been continually flabbergasted at the self-centeredness of my oldest dd this year. Astonished. She came for 10 days over Xmas- 4 days this summer. At Xmas she did NOTHING to help clean up from the house fire. During the 4 days here she helped some- but made disparaging remarks about our house/life/ persons and didn't really help with crucial tasks.

She has spent the summer wking part time states away- we asked her to come and help put the house back together- she made a big deal at her college last fall about how "her" house had burned-we are working like mad to get back into our house- her comment, "I'm doing what adults do." and "You (meaning me) just can't accept the fact that I have my own life." (that is also a direct quote from my mi who hates the fact that we homeschool and can't stand the fact that we have good relationships with our kids- she actively undermines us frequently)-it's actually a good thing she's not here cause I might just strangle her.

Anyway- she promised to come for fall break- the littles really miss her- and just read on her blog today that she plans to spend the week hiking in TN instead because she "has no other plans."

She's made a point of saying she doesn't want our advice. She does not respond to any correction or input- just basically ignores it.(we pay her cell phone plan) I txted her reminding her of the cost of txting pics and media- no response.

She's told me she was setting "appropriate bounderies" with her dad and I and she's not going to paticipate in anymore "working on relationships" discussions. And it's all couched in churchspeak.

 

How do you show loving kindness to someone who is technically living "right" but has some real heart attitudes. There is a whole list of things that she's done/said this year that are just plain old ugly (in the southern sense).

I am just so profoundly saddened by this I could cry. It's been a hard enough year.

[johnandtinagilbert]

:grouphug:

 

For the phone, you may be able to call your provider and eliminate texting from the phone altogether. We put a block on ours (through our provider) so we can neither receive nor send texts b/c a quarter here and there was getting ridiculous.

 

As much as is saddens me to say this, I totally understand about your MIL, we have many of the same issues here. She'd turn all the children against everyone, save herself, if she could.

 

Maybe you should just let her be. Tell her how much you love her and how you would like to be closer, but she's made it clear that it will be on her terms for now, so let her have those terms. Perhaps the distance will call her heart home. :grouphug: I probably couldn't help but remind her that you have always been there for her, but you don't feel like she is doing the same for the family and it breaks your heart. Since she's being so egotistical, she may miss the point entirely, but hopefully, and prayerfully, she'll get the truth sooner than later.

 

:grouphug: You are an amazing mother and doing an outstanding job raising your family...these are her issues, not yours....give her a chance to work them out and stay on your knees on her behalf.

[Angie in VA]

I was all ready to defend her regarding the house fire. We have dear friends who suffered a house fire while their ds was away at college. He had a hard time w/ it, even w/ a strong faith in the Lord. YOU KNOW. It rocks your world, there's a mourning involved, etc. That said, the texting thing and other comments make me slower to defend her. Does she have a job? I'd be tempted, and would only do this after praying w/ Dh and if he agreed, to drop her from your phone plan altogether. She's so grown up, well, paying for your own cell phone - THAT'S doing what adults do!

 

And in the heat of the moment, I'd be tempted to write something snarky on her blog for all to see (sometimes peer pressure and/or a little public humiliation goes a long way!) about "no other plans." But you're too much of a lady for that, and I hope, in the end, I would be too. ;)

 

Going back to peer pressure, what do her (older, mainly) siblings say to her? I'd think they'd have a few words for her lack of help in the rebuilding process! How's your Dh handling it? Something about a daddy and his dd, but there comes a time to put your foot down.

 

(((Lisa)))

Edited July 14, 2010 by Angie in VA

[Caryl]

:grouphug: I remember at that age that I pretty much checked out too, but once I married and had children my relationship with my parents became closer.

I hate that psychobabble stuff in churches. My dear friends daughter had one church "counselor" say that her issues were due to her father's distance (he's a quiet guy)- now she has to work thru the "issues" that were created by the counselor. Churches should be teaching young people to honor their parents as the Bible teaches and teach them to grow up and understand that everyone has failings and weaknesses, but that what makes a good parent is that they have done the best they can.

 

If you pay for her phone so that she can call you, I guess I would end the service completely, and just call her. She's on her own- she can buy her own cell phone. Also, if you are at all supporting her financially, I would stop. If she no longer contributes to the family economy, she is no longer a part of that economy. She has to create her own.

 

Be loving, be kind, be gracious, be interested in her. You probably won't get much back in kind at this point in her life, but consider it deposits in a long-term bank account that will yield interest as she ages and becomes wiser.

 

From your posts and your blog it is obvious that you are a fantastic mom that has weathered a difficult year with grace and good humor. Hang on and wait for the crop you have planted to bear fruit.

[tampamommy]

I'm so sorry you are going through this frustration with your daughter. Hugs.:grouphug:

 

It sounds like she is angry about something in her life right now, somewhat antagonistic, and wants to be alone. That's fine, but I wouldn't sugarcoat or make excuses to your younger ones. I'd be upfront and tell them she made other plans in the fall. Not in great detail. If asked why, I'd reply that you don't know why. Not to undermine your eldest, but for you to maintain honesty with your younger children.

 

If she indeed wants to be left alone to "have her own life," I would make it abundantly clear to her what that means at age 23.

 

"Her own life" means fully self-supporting financially and otherwise. Tuition, living arrangements, cell phone and any other bills. Being part of a family means just that...making an effort to be part of a team. If you are financially supporting her in any way, she is taking big-time advantage of that and pretending to be an adult without the real responsibilities of adulthood.

 

I don't mean to come across harsh, but I would matter-of-factly and kindly tell her that if she is not wanting to be part of the family and participate not only in fun things, but also in things that require work, then she probably should stay at a hotel when/if she wants to visit.

 

If she wants to be on her own, then let her really be on her own. I don't mean not to communicate with her. Definitely continue to let her know you love her, pray for her, want her to be happy, etc. But at age 23, if she really wants to, then let her "live her own life" and fund it as well. I think she'll eventually realize how lonely she is without her loving family.

 

Hang in there Mom.

[DebbS]

I'm so sorry you are going through this frustration with your daughter. Hugs.:grouphug:

 

It sounds like she is angry about something in her life right now, somewhat antagonistic, and wants to be alone. That's fine, but I wouldn't sugarcoat or make excuses to your younger ones. I'd be upfront and tell them she made other plans in the fall. Not in great detail. If asked why, I'd reply that you don't know why. Not to undermine your eldest, but for you to maintain honesty with your younger children.

 

If she indeed wants to be left alone to "have her own life," I would make it abundantly clear to her what that means at age 23.

 

"Her own life" means fully self-supporting financially and otherwise. Tuition, living arrangements, cell phone and any other bills. Being part of a family means just that...making an effort to be part of a team. If you are financially supporting her in any way, she is taking big-time advantage of that and pretending to be an adult without the real responsibilities of adulthood.

 

I don't mean to come across harsh, but I would matter-of-factly and kindly tell her that if she is not wanting to be part of the family and participate not only in fun things, but also in things that require work, then she probably should stay at a hotel when/if she wants to visit.

 

If she wants to be on her own, then let her really be on her own. I don't mean not to communicate with her. Definitely continue to let her know you love her, pray for her, want her to be happy, etc. But at age 23, if she really wants to, then let her "live her own life" and fund it as well. I think she'll eventually realize how lonely she is without her loving family.

 

Hang in there Mom.

 

:iagree: Your daughter has boundaries and so do you. If she wants family support then she has to support family. That's a big part of being an adult.

[flobee76]

I'm so sorry you are going through this frustration with your daughter. Hugs.:grouphug:

 

It sounds like she is angry about something in her life right now, somewhat antagonistic, and wants to be alone. That's fine, but I wouldn't sugarcoat or make excuses to your younger ones. I'd be upfront and tell them she made other plans in the fall. Not in great detail. If asked why, I'd reply that you don't know why. Not to undermine your eldest, but for you to maintain honesty with your younger children.

 

If she indeed wants to be left alone to "have her own life," I would make it abundantly clear to her what that means at age 23.

 

"Her own life" means fully self-supporting financially and otherwise. Tuition, living arrangements, cell phone and any other bills. Being part of a family means just that...making an effort to be part of a team. If you are financially supporting her in any way, she is taking big-time advantage of that and pretending to be an adult without the real responsibilities of adulthood.

 

I don't mean to come across harsh, but I would matter-of-factly and kindly tell her that if she is not wanting to be part of the family and participate not only in fun things, but also in things that require work, then she probably should stay at a hotel when/if she wants to visit.

 

If she wants to be on her own, then let her really be on her own. I don't mean not to communicate with her. Definitely continue to let her know you love her, pray for her, want her to be happy, etc. But at age 23, if she really wants to, then let her "live her own life" and fund it as well. I think she'll eventually realize how lonely she is without her loving family.

 

Hang in there Mom.

:iagree:

 

I don't care how old you are, 3 or 23, you still respect your parents and family unit, IMO. At 23, I was married, had a job, but still loved my parents and longed to spend time with them and help them when we could.

 

At this point... I would say that you need to have a BIG talk with her DD. So hard, but if she is making these boundaries, she needs to face the consequences. Otherwise, you are just enabling her to be someone who is carelessly dependent on others no matter what the cost.

[Teachin'Mine]

:grouphug:

 

Is there an adult, outside of your family, who she might listen to? Maybe someone from your church who knows your family? Maybe they could talk with her and help her to see how hurtful her words and actions have been.

 

Eliminating text messaging might be a good wake up call. A gentle reminder that an "adult" would be paying her own phone bill or at the least, not running up the bill on the one her parents have so generously provided.

 

I wonder too, now this may not be considered nice, if someone could go onto her blog anonymously, and comment that they're so glad to hear that her house is totally in order since she's going on vacation in TN. I know ... I'm bad. :tongue_smilie:

 

:grouphug:

[Night Elf]

If she indeed wants to be left alone to "have her own life," I would make it abundantly clear to her what that means at age 23.

 

I'm afraid I agree with this. I remember being that age and thinking I was owed stuff and that I deserved stuff, and I'm absolutely positive that I was totally justified in my thinking. :D (oh mercy me) I thought my mom was dumb and useless, but I sure did run back to her alot. Again, I thought she was supposed to play that role simply because she was my mother. Oh, and I was married at age 19 and although we lived in our own apartment, we were not financially self-sufficient and frequently asked our parents for money. That did stop when my ex-husband graduated from college.

 

As for my dd18, she still lives at home and hasn't yet graduated from high school. But she works about 30 hours per week and pays for her own personal things with her income. We do not charge rent or food or anything like that. She paid for her own phone and gives us money every month to cover her portion of the phone bill and car insurance. She also understands that when she moves out of this house, she is on her own and needs to be self-sufficient. I won't have her feeling dependent the rest of her life the way I do even at the age of 42.

 

I believe that responsibility and obligations go hand in hand. You simply cannot take without expecting to ever give. I didn't understand that when I was a young adult and I can see that my dd18 is having some difficulty coming to terms with the concept as well. She'll learn though.

 

I'm sorry you (the OP) are having a rough time. It sounds like she won't even sit down with you and talk about things? Tough love is extremely hard. I think that's why it's called "tough" love. :tongue_smilie: Perhaps the people that are counseling her should be the ones to financially support her. I'm not saying strings should be attached to financial support, but I think it's not unreasonable to expect some sort of graciousness on her part. It sounds like she isn't in that type of 'head space' at all.

[LisaNY]

:grouphug: I remember at that age that I pretty much checked out too, but once I married and had children my relationship with my parents became closer.

I hate that psychobabble stuff in churches. My dear friends daughter had one church "counselor" say that her issues were due to her father's distance (he's a quiet guy)- now she has to work thru the "issues" that were created by the counselor. Churches should be teaching young people to honor their parents as the Bible teaches and teach them to grow up and understand that everyone has failings and weaknesses, but that what makes a good parent is that they have done the best they can.

 

If you pay for her phone so that she can call you, I guess I would end the service completely, and just call her. She's on her own- she can buy her own cell phone. Also, if you are at all supporting her financially, I would stop. If she no longer contributes to the family economy, she is no longer a part of that economy. She has to create her own.

 

Be loving, be kind, be gracious, be interested in her. You probably won't get much back in kind at this point in her life, but consider it deposits in a long-term bank account that will yield interest as she ages and becomes wiser.

 

From your posts and your blog it is obvious that you are a fantastic mom that has weathered a difficult year with grace and good humor. Hang on and wait for the crop you have planted to bear fruit.

 

Well said!

 

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[Barb_]

I've had the same sort of entitlement issues with my oldest in the last couple of years. I suspect the oldest in a family with a lot of younger siblings has to work harder at distancing herself since she keenly feels everything and everyone left behind to go on without her. The trouble is, I think my daughter has overdone the separating thing to the point that she feels very little obligation or commitment to us any longer...until she needs something, sigh. It sounds as if your has too :grouphug: I don't have any advice but I did want you to know you aren't alone.

 

Barb

[laughing lioness]

Thanks everyone. The only thing we are paying for right now is the phone. She has a 4-yr scholarship and works p.t. for expenses, R & B. We do need to have a serious talk about the phone useage, though, beacuse the quarters here and there are adding up to outrageous phone bills.

She is the oldest sib. My 19 & 15 yo have both tried talking with her and feel like they've hit a brick wall. She did call later today to talk about fall break (all on her own).

Barb, yea- it's the overdoing the seperating...(sniffle)

Thanks for the support!

Edited July 14, 2010 by laughing lioness

[Night Elf]

Thanks everyone. The only thing we are paying for right now is the phone. She has a 4-yr scholarship and works p.t. for expenses, R & B.

 

This empowers her then. In a sense, she is paying for everything and wants to be treated like an adult because she feels like an adult.

 

The cell phone is likely looked at as a gift maybe? One way to put things back into your control of how much *you* are spending is to have her get her own cell phone plan and you send her a monthly check to contribute towards that bill. That keeps your contribution to an expected monthly amount and helps her see just how much she actually is spending just on her cell. :)

[laughing lioness]

Night Elf, I like that idea!

[Mrs Mungo]

I'm so sorry you are going through this frustration with your daughter. Hugs.:grouphug:

 

It sounds like she is angry about something in her life right now, somewhat antagonistic, and wants to be alone. That's fine, but I wouldn't sugarcoat or make excuses to your younger ones. I'd be upfront and tell them she made other plans in the fall. Not in great detail. If asked why, I'd reply that you don't know why. Not to undermine your eldest, but for you to maintain honesty with your younger children.

 

If she indeed wants to be left alone to "have her own life," I would make it abundantly clear to her what that means at age 23.

 

"Her own life" means fully self-supporting financially and otherwise. Tuition, living arrangements, cell phone and any other bills. Being part of a family means just that...making an effort to be part of a team. If you are financially supporting her in any way, she is taking big-time advantage of that and pretending to be an adult without the real responsibilities of adulthood.

 

I don't mean to come across harsh, but I would matter-of-factly and kindly tell her that if she is not wanting to be part of the family and participate not only in fun things, but also in things that require work, then she probably should stay at a hotel when/if she wants to visit.

 

If she wants to be on her own, then let her really be on her own. I don't mean not to communicate with her. Definitely continue to let her know you love her, pray for her, want her to be happy, etc. But at age 23, if she really wants to, then let her "live her own life" and fund it as well. I think she'll eventually realize how lonely she is without her loving family.

 

Hang in there Mom.

 

:iagree:

[jld]

Well, for a different take on this . . .

 

I think there's an awful lot of entitlement in parents, too. While I completely agree with not paying her cell phone anymore, I would disagree with any kind of thinking on the part of the parents about what she "owes" them. I don't think it's helpful, even if they believe it's true. You don't have any control over a 23 year old; you only have the hope of a relationship continuing into the future. You certainly can forbid her from coming home, or seeing her younger siblings, but that's probably not what you want, either. You want the relationship on your terms with her. You may feel justified by your interpretation of the Bible on this. But she could call what you say and feel, "churchspeak", too. Try looking at your first post from her pov; how does it feel then?

 

Call me crazy, but I think a sincere and humble review of your own feelings on this, especially parts where you may sense entitlement on your own side, could be helpful.

 

How about this: "Honey, we love you and miss you. The littles want to see you. We could really use help from another adult on this big job of remodelling. You seem especially angry with Dad. We're open to admitting you may be right about some things. It's hard for Dad and me to admit we've done anything wrong, because to our pov, we've done everything right. We and you both seem to just want to defend ourselves and want our own way. But we're all going to have to compromise to have the kind of relationship we want. And even if you don't want to compromise, we do. We miss you and want you to feel loved by us. What could Dad and I do that would make you feel loved and respected?"

 

Okay, that's pretty windy, but I think you get the idea. You and your dh are the leaders, the mature ones, and you will likely have to take the lead in establishing a mutually respectful relationship with your daughter. It's probably going to mean a lot of humility and seeking to understand your daughter's pov, and not insisting on your own.

 

My brother is 60 and has no relationship with my mother (my dad died some years ago). If my parents could only have been humble, things could have been so different. But they just felt so justified, so prideful, and their other children backed them up, I guess from the idea that the parents must always be right. But what did it get them? The loss of their son.

 

Parents have to be the leaders. True leaders are servants with humble hearts. Maybe reread 1 Corinthians 13.

 

I'm sorry if this post seems harsh. I don't mean it to. I just see way too much entitlement in parents (most of my siblings are in their 50s) and how much damage it has done to their relationships with their adult children. I just don't think it has to be that way.

 

Best of luck, however you decide to procede. :grouphug:

[laughing lioness]

jld- not harsh at all. When she was here for 4 days I did apologize to her for some of the interactions at Christmas. I also asked her what she was execting- we'd had a house fire- thrown away 90% of our possesions, my sis died, dh had pnuemonia, I had a cyst removed, the littles were asking me if I was going to die every day...so, no, I wasn't handling things really well at that point. The lack of grace and understanding on her point though is shocking. Her response to anything related to what we've been trying to deal with this year has been, "I've (meaning herself)been under spiritual attack." "I am under unbelieveable stress." "I'm having to figure everthing out myself." I've asked her over and over- what is stressing you, what are you having to figure out, how can we help etc. etc.. Her reponse...nothing.

I really don't mind her having her own life- it's the manner in which she is doing it. This spring she went through a break up with her first serious boyfriend- she called us day and night-in tears, wanting lots of emotional support. That's fine. But it seems to be a one-way street and that's what's really causing some pain.

She's really only worked p.t. this summer- and spent a LOT of time watching Hogans Heros. I'm just flabbergasted at how callous she's been about the time/work constraints we've been under. No questions about how the house is coming, how people are doing...nothing.

I asked her point blank what she wanted from us- no response. That's the really exasperating part of all of this- any discussion about anything beyond just "that's really nice" is met with...no response.

[jld]

I'm sorry, Lisa. This must be so hard, and just so disappointing. :grouphug:

 

I'm wondering if the only thing you can do now, besides setting the financial boundary over the phone, is just to show her you love her through acts of service, if you want to. (Listening to the pain of her breakup isn't something you have to do, and if you don't have the energy to give support, well, then it probably just can't be given. One of the realities of adult life is realizing other people have limits, too.) The trust she would need to feel to be able to confide in you just doesn't seem to be there.

 

It sounds like she is not going to be a partner in the remodelling. That must be such a disappointment. We're remodelling our home in America, and I don't know what I would do without dd15's help. She did a sketch for our basement and it is really good. She'll be sorting through everything in the basement with me this fall, and she has really good judgment on what to keep and what to throw or give away. I can only imagine how lost I would be without her. I really feel your pain.

 

It sounds like your relationship is in a rough patch right now, and until it gets to a better place, you may just want to be patient and show her you love her, if this is something you would like to do. A 23 year old doesn't deserve anything, like a place to stay, from her parents; that is a free gift from the parents, if they want to give it. And true gifts don't come with strings attached.

 

I think the lack of emotional support must be especially upsetting. Even though your daughter is an adult, she's probably half your age, right? She's a young adult, and just doesn't have the life experience and emotional grounding you have. It might be helpful to look for support among people closer to your age or similar in life experience. As helpful as my dd is with so many projects around here, she is still only 15. She just doesn't have the life experience I have, and her emotional support can only go so far.

 

I truly wish you peace and a healthy solution to all this. :grouphug:

Edited July 15, 2010 by jld

[JennW in SoCal]

Nothing to add except:grouphug:

 

As someone else wrote, you've handled this last year with so much grace. I am in awe of you. Shoot, I'd come help with your remodeling and whatnot if you didn't live so darn far away (aren't you way up north somewhere --- you have winters -- that means north:001_smile:)

 

I would imagine that having the house fire and losing her familiar home hit at a very vulnerable time for her. She really can't go back home to what she knew before. And it is hard realizing for the first time as a young adult that you have to suck it up and deal with life yourself. Doesn't ease your sorrow, but it might explain some of her behavior.

 

One more :grouphug: