Need some idea input re: math and age

[Miss Marple]

For those that have kids who excel in math and accomplish the basics (Alg 1, Geo, and Alg, 2) prior to beginning high school, what do you do for the high school years? I know they can move on to trig and calc, but what do you do with a kid who is probably not mature enough by ninth to do trig or calc?

 

Would it be advisable to do a one year overview of alg1 & 2 in 9th? Then move on to trig?

 

I'm just trying to get a handle on my youngest math education. He's scheduled to finish the basics by the end of 8th. I'm just not sure I want to tackle trig in 9th. But I certainly need some math courses on his transcript and I've always been rather reluctant to use courses completed prior to high school. I may make an exception down to 8th grade, but 6th and 7th just don't seem to qualify IMO.

 

So....what do you all do with a kid like this?

[Hoggirl]

:bigear:

[creekland]

My two gifted math students had finished all but one of the 'usual 3' before starting 9th grade (and that is normal around here for gifted math students).

 

We took a year off for consumer math (used - and liked - Dave Ramsey) + SAT prep (same year). Then we did Pre-Calc and Calc + will probably do LoF Stats. Kids in our ps who don't take a year off for consumer math tend to do both Calc and Stats or College Algebra (for college credit at some schools). College Alg at our high school is done before Calc and goes into far more depth than the usual Alg 1 & 2 classes, but isn't significantly different. It's more of a review at a deeper level for those that want it.

[8filltheheart]

For those that have kids who excel in math and accomplish the basics (Alg 1, Geo, and Alg, 2) prior to beginning high school, what do you do for the high school years? I know they can move on to trig and calc, but what do you do with a kid who is probably not mature enough by ninth to do trig or calc?

 

Would it be advisable to do a one year overview of alg1 & 2 in 9th? Then move on to trig?

 

I'm just trying to get a handle on my youngest math education. He's scheduled to finish the basics by the end of 8th. I'm just not sure I want to tackle trig in 9th. But I certainly need some math courses on his transcript and I've always been rather reluctant to use courses completed prior to high school. I may make an exception down to 8th grade, but 6th and 7th just don't seem to qualify IMO.

 

So....what do you all do with a kid like this?

 

My 13 yo 8th grader is doing alg 2 this yr, so he is there.

 

I would look into the classes offered through Art of Problem Solving

http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Classes/AoPS_C_About.php

 

and EPGY online classes through Stanford.

http://epgy.stanford.edu/courses/math/

 

You might want to look into having your child take the SAT in Dec during 7th and 8th grade to see if they qualify for the talent searches.

http://cty.jhu.edu/

 

John Hopkins online classes are:

http://cty.jhu.edu/ctyonline/courses.html

 

No worries.....you won't run out of math to study.

[KAR120C]

DS started Algebra extremely early, and I don't intend to hit Calculus until the last thing I teach him (so either when he's a senior by age or if we ever consider early college of some kind) and definitely not until I'm pretty sure he'll be in range to nail a 5 on the AP Calc BC exam.... so not "light" Calc and as late as possible...

 

So the schedule to date:

Algebra (2 years ago, Singapore NEM 1 & 2 Algebra parts)

Statistics (last year, using an AP syllabus but not taking the test yet...) and we dabbled in Geometry with a group,

Geometry (this year, NEM again) and a Mathematical Logic book plus a competitive math team.

 

Basically we're alternating years between "the usual" and extra topics. I've got several up my sleeve, especially from the Art of Problem Solving collection: Counting and Probability and Number Theory are some definite possibilities and each could fill a year. AoPS has a Problem Solving series too, which we're using with our math team. We could also add in some Financial Math (Consumer Math plus Economics?), Cryptography, more Statistics... can't have too much statistics! ;)

 

The only thing is whatever we do next year, there's a good chance it will have already covered most of Algebra 2... so to that extent I'm not really slowing anything down - just covering it from a variety of angles. So if we do Financial Math next year, we'll do a less-financial Algebra 2 the following year... That level of math gets into some neat application possibilities, so I don't doubt that we could spend as much time as we want on it without running out of interesting things to do. Then really we'll just continue with the interesting applications and "extra" topics until we say it's time for Calculus. If he needs it we might call one year "Precalculus" -- it depends on how much warning we have that it's time...

 

I'm pretending, of course, that topics don't come up anywhere else... Some of this is really a sleight-of-hand to assign names to years when in real life things get mushed together, pop up unexpectedly where you never meant them to, or spring apparently spontaneously from that little head you think you're filling yourself (lol...) But really I think what it comes down to is having something fascinating to do each year, taking advantage of your extra time to really explore the best parts that no one ever seems to get to, and figuring out names for things that sound good on the transcript without getting you into trouble later. We're never actually doing only one thing, but I simplify for the purposes of recordkeeping.

 

If somehow we find ourselves hitting Calculus earlier than I'd like, I could theoretically stretch that out in much the same way we're stretching Algebra -- Calculus in Physics and Engineering, Calculus-based Economics, Calculus-based Statistics... and just save the AP exam for last... But I'd rather let him do all that in college.

[Miss Marple]

OK, a follow-up question for ya'll about the transcript issue. If I put statistics or some other courses (other than alg. 1, 2, and geometry) on the high school transcript, is it assumed by the college counselors that the basic courses have already been done? Would I need to add a footnote about previous math courses? I would imagine that putting trig and calculus on a transcript would indicate the student had mastered the basics, but what about the other courses like statistics, consumer math, etc.?

[creekland]

OK, a follow-up question for ya'll about the transcript issue. If I put statistics or some other courses (other than alg. 1, 2, and geometry) on the high school transcript, is it assumed by the college counselors that the basic courses have already been done? Would I need to add a footnote about previous math courses? I would imagine that putting trig and calculus on a transcript would indicate the student had mastered the basics, but what about the other courses like statistics, consumer math, etc.?

 

I added a footnote with the grade, but it probably wasn't necessary. Many math gifted students do Alg, etc, earlier so I'm sure they realize it. To date, no one has questioned it.

[KAR120C]

OK, a follow-up question for ya'll about the transcript issue. If I put statistics or some other courses (other than alg. 1, 2, and geometry) on the high school transcript, is it assumed by the college counselors that the basic courses have already been done? Would I need to add a footnote about previous math courses? I would imagine that putting trig and calculus on a transcript would indicate the student had mastered the basics, but what about the other courses like statistics, consumer math, etc.?

I would keep records as though you could be asked for the whole record -- grades, materials, etc. -- for anything you could ever count as high school, but from what I've heard it's rare for them to ask for anything more than four years prior to application. And if it's not obvious, I'd put the footnote in, just so they don't have to ask.

[8filltheheart]

OK, a follow-up question for ya'll about the transcript issue. If I put statistics or some other courses (other than alg. 1, 2, and geometry) on the high school transcript, is it assumed by the college counselors that the basic courses have already been done? Would I need to add a footnote about previous math courses? I would imagine that putting trig and calculus on a transcript would indicate the student had mastered the basics, but what about the other courses like statistics, consumer math, etc.?

 

I have spoken to a couple of college admission counselors about this and they recommend a transcript organized by subject vs. the traditional by-year format. Apparently it is very common for advanced students to present their course work that way since they don't fit the traditional 8 semester format.

 

Here is a link to sight that has answers about transcripts:

http://www.everyday-education.com/tme/index.shtml

[Miss Marple]

OK, I've considered doing this, but I have never actually seen one organized in that fashion. Am I thinking right in that under the heading of "Math" I would put the usual high school courses (alg. 1, geom, alg, 2) as well as the others (statistics, consumer math, etc.) and indicate the grade it was completed?

[MomsintheGarden]

Thank you so much for this thread! I have a child that is doing hs math early, and I really appreciate your responses.

 

A couple of random thoughts:

1. If you have a student who gets a good score on the Calc BC exam before the end of high school, I would consider MV for him/her. The other suggestions sound great as well (consumer math, statistics, probability, etc.). My oldest is in engineering school with students from top math & science high schools. Many of these students have had Multivariable Calculus in high school, usually 12th grade. I've heard some rumors that the College Board is thinking about providing a MV Calc AP test in the future.

 

2. If you're worried about having enough math credits, I feel that the Chalkdust Pre-Calc course deserves 1 1/2 high school credits. It takes most students about 1 1/2 high school years to thoroughly do the CD Precalc. You can give 1/2 credit each for Trigonometry, Advanced Algebra, and Analytic Geometry.

 

Thanks for all the suggestions!

GardenMom

[creekland]

I have spoken to a couple of college admission counselors about this and they recommend a transcript organized by subject vs. the traditional by-year format. Apparently it is very common for advanced students to present their course work that way since they don't fit the traditional 8 semester format.

 

Interesting... we had our transcript for my oldest done that way and the college admission folks from every place we've been to have asked us to redo it the more traditional way... Different stokes for different admissions folks I guess!

[Storm Bay]

The AMS (American Mathematical Society) has some excellent books you might like for high schoolers, and some are textbooks that you could use for a course. I'm hoping to get my eldest to take a course in Mathematical Ciphers, which I think she'll like a whole lot better than consumer math or statistics.

[StaceyL in Canada]

Oh, how I envy mothers with math-gifted children.... Here, despite my own enjoyment of math, it is the bane of my children's existence.

 

I wouldn't hesitate to include on a transcript high school level math courses (geometry, algebra II) even if done before the actual high school years. In this case, the content/ skills learned are the same as what would normally be covered later, so I would deem it worth the credit.

[Miss Marple]

Ah...but my kids hate to write...I absolutely dread the day they will be required to write an essay for the SAT or ACT. I'm not sure they'll even be able to read ds#3's handwriting :tongue_smilie:

[Piano&ViolinMom]

 

No worries.....you won't run out of math to study.

True for most kids. However, there are some kids need to worry.

[Tullia]

I used a transcript organized by subject, but entered individual courses in chronological order. The page was formatted horizontally, and included a header containing biographical information, grading scale and explanation, cumulative gpa, and credits completed. I also inserted a section under the transcript containing a brief description of standardized test scores, community service, honor societies, extracurricular activities, and community college courses. I was able to use this format for several different occasions including a "good student discount" for auto insurance, application to an honor society, as well as to inform my son's academic advisor at the local community college. However, my son was not required to submit a transcript to the CC; his ACT and SAT scores were sufficient.

 

The final version looked fairly conventional because he was more or less at grade level in most subjects. I'd definitely add a brief explanation for anything that might raise questions.

 

HTH,

Martha

[Storm Bay]

True for most kids. However, there are some kids need to worry.

 

 

Why? There are so many math courses you can take besides Algebra/Geometry/Calculus that I'm not sure what you mean.

[8filltheheart]

Why? There are so many math courses you can take besides Algebra/Geometry/Calculus that I'm not sure what you mean.

 

:iagree:

 

HomeschoolWhy? did you follow the provided links? Beyond cal AB and BC, they offer college level courses in

 

M51A Linear Algebra

M52A Multivariable Differential Calculus

M52B Multivariable Integral Calculus

M53A Differential Equations

M106 Complex Analysis

M109 Modern Algebra

M115 Real Analysis

M131 Partial Differential Equations

M146 Point-Set Topology

M152 Number Theory

M157 Introduction to Logic

 

And that is just from a single source.

 

I'm not sure how a student is going to run out of math to study.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

 

Why? There are so many math courses you can take besides Algebra/Geometry/Calculus that I'm not sure what you mean.

I do respect your agreement of "No worries.....you won't run out of math to study". by momof7. If you are requesting me to answer why I think there are still some kids need to worry about what course they can go after in math, I would say those kids are who have advenced in math faster that you can imagine.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

:iagree:

 

HomeschoolWhy? did you follow the provided links? Beyond cal AB and BC, they offer college level courses in

 

M51A Linear Algebra

M52A Multivariable Differential Calculus

M52B Multivariable Integral Calculus

M53A Differential Equations

M106 Complex Analysis

M109 Modern Algebra

M115 Real Analysis

M131 Partial Differential Equations

M146 Point-Set Topology

M152 Number Theory

M157 Introduction to Logic

 

And that is just from a single source.

 

I'm not sure how a student is going to run out of math to study.

 

Yes, I am aware your link. Yours is from EPGY, Stanford University. And they are pretty standard courses in math dept in many colleges.

[creekland]

I do respect your agreement of "No worries.....you won't run out of math to study". by momof7. If you are requesting me to answer why I think there are still some kids need to worry about what course they can go after in math, I would say those kids are who have advenced in math faster that you can imagine.

 

I'll be the first to say I've seen many students gifted in math... and have yet to see any student who runs out of math to study while in high school... no matter how advanced they are.

 

The trouble I've seen has been the opposite. Some students are good at math up till they hit a 'wall.' Then comprehension no longer becomes easy for them and they have to work at it. Some of those do not care to actually 'work' at math (preferring other subjects or whatnot), and then they wonder what they can do for math credit... Even for those kids there are options - Consumer Math, Statistics, repeating an Alg 2 or Advanced Math class with a different book, etc.

 

The most common places to hit walls are Alg (in general), Trig, and Calc. Those that hit it at Alg have no worries other than they need to work through it and learn to apply themselves even if it doesn't come easily. For the others... they have the above options and probably more I'm not thinking of first thing in the morning.

 

In any case, there are still no worries.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

I'll be the first to say I've seen many students gifted in math... and have yet to see any student who runs out of math to study while in high school... no matter how advanced they are.

 

The trouble I've seen has been the opposite. Some students are good at math up till they hit a 'wall.' Then comprehension no longer becomes easy for them and they have to work at it. Some of those do not care to actually 'work' at math (preferring other subjects or whatnot), and then they wonder what they can do for math credit... Even for those kids there are options - Consumer Math, Statistics, repeating an Alg 2 or Advanced Math class with a different book, etc.

 

The most common places to hit walls are Alg (in general), Trig, and Calc. Those that hit it at Alg have no worries other than they need to work through it and learn to apply themselves even if it doesn't come easily. For the others... they have the above options and probably more I'm not thinking of first thing in the morning.

 

In any case, there are still no worries.

 

Yes, there are some kids do worry what math course to do next. Those some kids are the ones wno you may not see near you easily though as I assume there are only few who can hit a 'wall' of Calculus even before entering high school. I brought this attention because someone posted here that nobody should worry about this matter. Anyway, this is not an important fact because you do not have to worry with your kids.

[8filltheheart]

I do respect your agreement of "No worries.....you won't run out of math to study". by momof7. If you are requesting me to answer why I think there are still some kids need to worry about what course they can go after in math, I would say those kids are who have advenced in math faster that you can imagine.

 

Well, if you have a student that is so advanced that they are going to be beyond all those courses, I would say you have absolutely nothing to worry about.......any prestigious math dept in the country would embrace such a prodigy willingly.

 

I would have them in all the major math competitions and earning national awareness and I would contact http://www.ams.org/ and http://www.maa.org/

[Piano&ViolinMom]

Well, if you have a student that is so advanced that they are going to be beyond all those courses, I would say you have absolutely nothing to worry about.......any prestigious math dept in the country would embrace such a prodigy willingly.

 

I would have them in all the major math competitions and earning national awareness and I would contact http://www.ams.org/ and http://www.maa.org/

 

Dear momof7 :

Yes, there are prodigies in any field in deed.

[Storm Bay]

I do respect your agreement of "No worries.....you won't run out of math to study". by momof7. If you are requesting me to answer why I think there are still some kids need to worry about what course they can go after in math, I would say those kids are who have advenced in math faster that you can imagine.

 

 

I can imagine dc like this, because I know about dc like this. Is the worry, then, because they haven't also progressed in their other academics with equal rapidity? Because there's at least one mother on this forum whose dd went to college at 12, and is going to start either her Sophomore or Junior year (I can't remember which.) I've read of kids starting college at the age of 9 (one was a teen med student.) I would think a child like this could have a graduate degree in math by the time they're 18.

 

I would say, then, that for dc who are that profoundly gifted, the concern is whether or not they can go to college once they've done all those math courses we've mentioned here. If they can't go to college yet, then you'd really need to simply list high school courses on transcripts without respect to year and apply to colleges that allow that. Find colleges that are different--books like Cool Colleges are perfect for this type of thing (it includes the hyperintelligent in the subtitle.)

[KAR120C]

I do respect your agreement of "No worries.....you won't run out of math to study". by momof7. If you are requesting me to answer why I think there are still some kids need to worry about what course they can go after in math, I would say those kids are who have advenced in math faster that you can imagine.

I think we actually agree about more than it might sound like, and I should say that first... There are kids who progress through math at extremely early ages and extremely fast pace. I've known some of them, I've tutored more than one, and I've got a handful on my math team. But I still don't see them "running out". It takes more creativity and more effort to meet their need for a challenge, but I think what everyone else is saying here is that it ultimately comes down to whether Math is a finite quantity of information. It's not. There is ALWAYS more math, although it can be a great deal of work finding it if you don't have leanings in that direction yourself. If you somehow found yourself at the "end" of math, that would be a point for starting on your dissertation.

 

What most people come down to when they say they could run out of math is that the only math they can teach their kids is what is available from the major publishers - Saxon, Singapore, etc. - or from their public or private school curriculum, in terms of Arithmetic, Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, Precalculus, Calculus... which for a kid who starts Algebra even slightly early won't be enough to get through the senior year. There are at least two ways to deal with that - either add on to the end (college classes) or fill in the middle (Art of Problem Solving, or other "interesting" courses - Number Theory, Mathematical Logic, Statistics, etc.

 

If you've tried both of those and still run out, then yes, you have a difficult situation. But as Momof7 said, that would be a difficulty that any of a number of math departments would love to help you with! I feel like we're missing something in your posts though... I know your kids are working pretty far ahead (I think you mentioned it in another thread), but what all are they doing in math that you're finding worrisome? I'd venture to say you're not the only one here who has dealt with a similar situation, and someone might have something to suggest. Or conversely if you're not worrying, I'd love to hear what route you have chosen.

[Storm Bay]

I think we actually agree about more than it might sound like, and I should say that first... There are kids who progress through math at extremely early ages and extremely fast pace. I've known some of them, I've tutored more than one, and I've got a handful on my math team. But I still don't see them "running out". It takes more creativity and more effort to meet their need for a challenge, but I think what everyone else is saying here is that it ultimately comes down to whether Math is a finite quantity of information. It's not. There is ALWAYS more math, although it can be a great deal of work finding it if you don't have leanings in that direction yourself. If you somehow found yourself at the "end" of math, that would be a point for starting on your dissertation.

 

What most people come down to when they say they could run out of math is that the only math they can teach their kids is what is available from the major publishers - Saxon, Singapore, etc. - or from their public or private school curriculum, in terms of Arithmetic, Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2, Precalculus, Calculus... which for a kid who starts Algebra even slightly early won't be enough to get through the senior year. There are at least two ways to deal with that - either add on to the end (college classes) or fill in the middle (Art of Problem Solving, or other "interesting" courses - Number Theory, Mathematical Logic, Statistics, etc.

 

If you've tried both of those and still run out, then yes, you have a difficult situation. But as Momof7 said, that would be a difficulty that any of a number of math departments would love to help you with! I feel like we're missing something in your posts though... I know your kids are working pretty far ahead (I think you mentioned it in another thread), but what all are they doing in math that you're finding worrisome? I'd venture to say you're not the only one here who has dealt with a similar situation, and someone might have something to suggest. Or conversely if you're not worrying, I'd love to hear what route you have chosen.

 

 

Another point is this. There is a lot more to real math than arithmetic and dealing with numbers. There is a whole lot of thinking, and pure mathematics is closer to philosophy in some ways (please, no math major jump on me ;)) than it is to arithmetic.

 

Most huge math discoveries are done by the time a student is in his or her early 20s. It is completely normal for math geniuses to be young. I wouldn't worry about it until you are nearly through all the things we've listed here, really I wouldn't. (The things momof7 listed (aka Karen), the page I mentioned on the AMS site--once you're done with that high school page, you ought to peruse their catalogue, because they have college undergraduate and graduate level texts there.)

 

The other question I have is, how old are they and what math are they doing? You can PM me if you're not comfortable mentioning it here.

[Storm Bay]

Dear momof7 :

Yes, there are prodigies in any field in deed.

 

 

Not child prodigies. Child prodigies are usually found in certain fields, including (but not limited to) music and math. However, you don't find them in all fields--I haven't seen one in philosophy, for example. If there is one, I'd love to hear about it and actually read the philosophy. This is one of the reasons why not all gifted children, and, indeed, not even all geniuses, are found out in childhood.

Edited August 27, 2009 by Karin

[Piano&ViolinMom]

Hi Erica,

 

I guess I have to start by saying that I am not one of those parents to worry to direct their kids' math study. Our kids can do math at some degree, but math is not the only one to do in their schooling. They have many fun things to do in other fields like your kids. However, if someone has a profound gifted kids who are willing to put time for it, they might experience that their kids are advancing too quick. Again, I realized that I did not have to point this matter out in the first place, as it does not affect most of us.

[KAR120C]

However, if someone has a profound gifted kids who are willing to put time for it, they might experience that their kids are advancing too quick. Again, I realized that I did not have to point this matter out in the first place, as it does not affect most of us.

These are exactly the ones that end up in my math teams, or that I end up tutoring, etc. My point isn't that they don't exist - they certainly do, and their math progress can be absolutely mind boggling in regards to both speed and depth - but that it's not the insurmountable problem that it would appear to be. You really can't be "too quick" or "run out" until you get to the point of making your own discoveries and proofs. And on the way you can find out all sorts of exciting niche topics that no one else even gets to on the traditional route.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

These are exactly the ones that end up in my math teams, or that I end up tutoring, etc. My point isn't that they don't exist - they certainly do, and their math progress can be absolutely mind boggling in regards to both speed and depth - but that it's not the insurmountable problem that it would appear to be. You really can't be "too quick" or "run out" until you get to the point of making your own discoveries and proofs. And on the way you can find out all sorts of exciting niche topics that no one else even gets to on the traditional route.

 

Great discussion !

[Piano&ViolinMom]

DS started Algebra extremely early, and I don't intend to hit Calculus until the last thing I teach him (so either when he's a senior by age or if we ever consider early college of some kind) and definitely not until I'm pretty sure he'll be in range to nail a 5 on the AP Calc BC exam.... so not "light" Calc and as late as possible...

 

If somehow we find ourselves hitting Calculus earlier than I'd like, I could theoretically stretch that out in much the same way we're stretching Algebra -- Calculus in Physics and Engineering, Calculus-based Economics, Calculus-based Statistics... and just save the AP exam for last... But I'd rather let him do all that in college.

 

I wonder why you are trying hard not to hit Calculus for your ds until his senior year. Kids will be ready to tackle Calculus very naturally after having Pre-Calculus. And Pre-Calculus is very natural step to take after Algebra2/Geometry. Kids will have enough tool by then. Is there any reason?

[KAR120C]

I wonder why you are trying hard not to hit Calculus for your ds until his senior year. Kids will be ready to tackle Calculus very naturally after having Pre-Calculus. And Pre-Calculus is very natural step to take after Algebra2/Geometry. Kids will have enough tool by then. Is there any reason?

I'm sure he could do it - he's seen bits and pieces already and had no problem understanding them - but we've got a lot of other stuff to do that he doesn't need calculus for, and he's finding it all fascinating. I'd really like to exploit algebra for all it can do first and then move on when we've hit all the best parts.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

Erica,

I see. You are doing great. Surely your way would help your ds to have a strong foundation in math for a long term. In case getting 5 in AP Calculus BC is in your mind, I let you know that you should relax as it's very doable thing to do just by having Pre-Cal & Calculus study. It's from our own experience.

[creekland]

I wonder why you are trying hard not to hit Calculus for your ds until his senior year. Kids will be ready to tackle Calculus very naturally after having Pre-Calculus. And Pre-Calculus is very natural step to take after Algebra2/Geometry. Kids will have enough tool by then. Is there any reason?

 

I know some people do let their kids run on ahead when they are talented in a particular field. I also know I don't subscribe to that for my sons...(to a point). This is my oldest's senior year and he's already flying through Calc (as I sort of expected). He'll do just fine in college. I have no regrets that I had him take a year off to just do Consumer Math back in 10th grade. My philosophy is wanting a grounded learning - and time to let kids be kids in all ways - academic and otherwise - for as long as they can. It's part of why we said 'no way' to those colleges who wanted him to start this year instead of next. He's got a year of fun left here at home - then he can go off and start his next life. :)

 

All that said and I still believe we each get to raise our kids the way we feel is best, so if my way is different than others, so be it. ;)

 

Plus... as the others have stated - there is no 'end' to math. I still think there is more of a problem for those that advance their kids and then find out their kids hit a wall and have difficulty going farther (finding courses for the transcript) than those that continue to excel.

[Piano&ViolinMom]

I know some people do let their kids run on ahead when they are talented in a particular field. I also know I don't subscribe to that for my sons...(to a point).... My philosophy is wanting a grounded learning - and time to let kids be kids in all ways - academic and otherwise - for as long as they can. ...All that said and I still believe we each get to raise our kids the way we feel is best, so if my way is different than others, so be it. ;)

 

Plus... as the others have stated - there is no 'end' to math. I still think there is more of a problem for those that advance their kids and then find out their kids hit a wall and have difficulty going farther (finding courses for the transcript) than those that continue to excel.

 

My two gifted math students had finished all but one of the 'usual 3' before starting 9th grade (and that is normal around here for gifted math students).

 

I do not understand what you are saying here. You are very proud to call your two dc as ‘gifted’ in math. But if someone is more gifted than yours in this world, than those profoundly gifted need feel guilty for you? They can be gifted only up to your dc level? I have very deep understanding on kids who are truely gifted. I only opinioned that perhaps those kids may face some difficulty to keeping math up every year while in high school when they perhaps have done most of math courses we can think of.

 

[creekland]

 

I do not understand what you are saying here. You are very proud to call your two dc as ‘gifted’ in math. But if someone is more gifted than yours in this world, than those profoundly gifted need feel guilty for you? They can be gifted only up to your dc level? I have very deep understanding on kids who are truely gifted. I only opinioned that perhaps those kids may face some difficulty to keeping math up every year while in high school when they perhaps have done most of math courses we can think of.

 

 

 

No I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that some of us with potentially gifted math students let their kids move on through the courses as quickly as possible and others of us don't. You had asked 'why' some of us would keep Calc until 12th grade even if students were ready sooner. I just answered that from my perspective.

 

I've seen literally thousands of math students in my years of teaching at ps. Of those, only a couple are possibly super gifted in ways that you mention - if they had been allowed to progress on quickly (ps doesn't allow it here). The best they could do here was score 5's on the AP (and now our school no longer offers AP either - they do 'College in the High School', but only for Seniors). Both have done superbly in college - one even went to MIT for engineering, the other headed toward the law profession. If I recall correctly, she started at Albright, but I know she had a gazillion choices. Neither was hindered by not moving on quicker.

 

My oldest 'may' have been in that category (though I'm not counting him as one of the two). I'll never know since I didn't let him move on. It won't hurt him. Taking the time in his younger years to become very well-rounded and having the younger years here instead of at college (or wherever) is something I feel will be much more beneficial to his life overall. His interest is more in economics than 'pure' math anyway... and then he has a heart for starting up businesses in poor areas of Latin America (where one of his best friends is). He doesn't even need to be super ahead in math for that.

 

Others do choose to advance their kids as quickly as their kids master a topic. Such is their right just as it is mine to not do so. We each have our reasons. I'm assuming you are one of those and didn't understand why some of us wouldn't do that. I was just explaining 'my' reasons.

 

For what it's worth, my middle son, while 'gifted' in that he will likely score close to as high as possible on standardized testing (and has in the past - and seldom gets anything wrong on a test), is not gifted in the manner I'm talking about here. He studies and works for it - then remembers how to do it. The other two - and my oldest - really didn't need to do any work. They read, understood, and knew - and could often work things out themselves if they couldn't or hadn't read about it.

 

Interestingly enough, my oldest often got B's in his ps classes - because he wouldn't show his work... but even then, he scored in the 99th percentile whenever they did standardized testing... I often wondered how someone could be at the top nationally, yet just get a 'B' in our local schools...

 

Still, I'll have no idea if any of the three ARE truly gifted as they never moved up beyond 'basic' classes... I can only surmise based on the norm - and what the other two accomplished later. My son is still a senior.

[Storm Bay]

 

I do not understand what you are saying here. You are very proud to call your two dc as ‘gifted’ in math. But if someone is more gifted than yours in this world, than those profoundly gifted need feel guilty for you? They can be gifted only up to your dc level? I have very deep understanding on kids who are truely gifted. I only opinioned that perhaps those kids may face some difficulty to keeping math up every year while in high school when they perhaps have done most of math courses we can think of.

 

 

 

 

I think your question has already been answered, and I wouldn't worry about whether or not people are limiting your evidently profoundly gifted math dc. People are sharing what they're doing and why. I wouldn't worry about the transcript if your dc are so young now, I'd get them doing all the math they want and can, whether or not you decide to put Calculus at the end or not. Even profoundly gifted dc are going to vary in how they want to approach math. If I were you I'd go deep and fast, not just fast, and you may well already be doing it. You may have already covered Algebra but for an eg, I'd do something like Gelfand's Algebra over most other Algebra texts, because of the theory, thinking and that there are problems there that can be challenging even for those with math degrees even though it's only Algebra. Or do all the extra for experts in Dolciani and skip the rest if it's too easy (and perhaps the extra for experts sections will be too easy.) Then stuff like linear Algebra, etc etc.

 

I'd suggest shopping at places like the American Mathematical Society, where there are challenging and cool math things for the advanced high school students (such as the one on Mathematical Ciphers, although that might not be one you choose) and once all high school math is done, or even before, start looking at all the other math texts they have and all the different things they cover. They cater to college level and graduate school math, and perhaps more. No one in my family is that gifted in math, although I don't know how gifted they are because they don't like it (and you don't have to like something you're gifted in) but I am confident that there are dc who are far more gifted than mine and I can easily imagine how fast.

 

But don't worry about whether or not people get how fast your dc are going now, just keep going. If your dc are that great at math, you'll have little trouble putting things on the transcript (just list by course, not by year for colleges that will take that ) and convincing math profs your kids know their stuff if they meet them. What I wouldn't do in your case is spend time with math programs that most kids can get, but do the ones that most dc find too hard.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Karin

[Piano&ViolinMom]

For those that have kids who excel in math and accomplish the basics (Alg 1, Geo, and Alg, 2) prior to beginning high school, what do you do for the high school years? I know they can move on to trig and calc, but what do you do with a kid who is probably not mature enough by ninth to do trig or calc?

 

I thought this thread was interesting to read to see how experienced homeschool parents are handling I am new(---1 year new) to homeschooling for my older one. I still have younger dc in ps. We made an instant decision to keep older one at home in time for starting high school. And I found the following quote : ‘No worries.....you won't run out of math to study’ I simply opinioned that ‘there are some’ instead of ‘no one’. Then I quickly realized that I became the center of this thread’ discussion !!! I did not realize how sensitive this matter is. I tried to leave this discussion by saying that I am not the one of such parents who perhaps could worry for their kids’ math sequence.

 

Well, if some of you still feel I owe you more explanation, here is more. Please take easy if you thought I was bring your proud dc down. I wasn’t. I was simply saying that it’s reasonably safe to assume there are smarter kids somewhere than ours, and these some could have advanced much more than we usually assume. Our public school alone has so many kids in advanced math class which will carry them to AP Calculus BC in their junior year. My ds was one of many in class. He was still too bored and had a problem to remain in class quietly. So I know there are kids who still need to be adjusted better. Unlikely our kids, if those some kids have been educated out of public school system so long to meet their challenge, I assumed that some must have completed Calculus even before 9th. I thought their parents could have some worry in their math in high school, specially if their kids intensify their effort into math. That’s all I have to say. Hope it’s clear to you by now.

 

@creekland : Sorry, I misunderstood you before. I do understand that PA system’s dual enrollment is for junior/senior, and some school offer it only to their senior. But I do know some younger kids can still take some college courses early as an exception if they can prove their exceptional advancement. You mentioned ‘Albright’ for one of your students. Do you live near?

 

@Karin : Thank you for your concern on my kids in their math. My ds homeschooled last year for the first time in his life and he was 9th. He has started his 10th recently. He liked homeschooling last year because he no longer needed missing school bus to the school. He also has found more time to play games or sleeping. Regarding his math, his learning math has not been under us but college. So we do not choose math for him. He just follow next sequence of math curriculum in college.

[creekland]

 

I thought this thread was interesting to read to see how experienced homeschool parents are handling I am new(---1 year new)

 

 

@creekland : Sorry, I misunderstood you before. I do understand that PA system’s dual enrollment is for junior/senior, and some school offer it only to their senior. But I do know some younger kids can still take some college courses early as an exception if they can prove their exceptional advancement. You mentioned ‘Albright’ for one of your students. Do you live near?

 

 

No problem on my end. This is only our 4th year and I still consider myself a newbie and enjoy reading threads to see what others use and do. I've even found some sites on this thread that have peaked my interest...

 

And no, we don't live all that close to Albright (though close is relative). The closest colleges to us are York College and Gettysburg College. Albright is where I 'think' one of our brightest young ladies from ps started her college education a few years back... I'm not 100% certain (old brain on my part - and not putting it into long term memory). I do know she had several choices - pretty much all with a free ride. Her goal in life was to become a Supreme Court justice... maybe someday she will. Who knows? I have no idea where she's at now. Her parents moved away a couple years back...